[tulsy]

I guess I'm one of the only ones who thinks the OP is jumping the gun.

It seems like your wife let him down easy multiple times in that convo and change the subject a couple times too.

He definitely wants more but I see nothing there that suggests your wife is remotely interested. It does suggest that she's afraid of how you would react if you saw the conversation.

OP: Have you accused her of cheating before this?

She certainly is interested in meeting the guy again...she asked him to save the date. She loves the attention from this guy. Shes not letting him down easy at all, if anything she encouraging him and pandering for more with "...don't forget me's" and "lol".

This is OM flirting and it she's being flirty right back. No way is that her letting him down easy.

The only thing she's afraid of is getting caught...she isn't afraid of carrying on with the OM.

Anna: 11:36pm So you still owe me dinner next time!!! (They headed out around 5:00 but never ate- only bars)
Kurt: Agreed. and a drink. Or two.
Anna: Lol... Good on drinks
Kurt: Not yet, but close. You are good AP look me up when you in Clev (AP is a nickname I had for her that apparently he does too)
Kurt: had fun tonight. Hope you did too. Sorry for the awful pizza.
Anna: So Feb 6-7 I am back... save the date!
Anna: I had fun too
Kurt: I will... And dinner will be planned much better
Anna:
Kurt: drinks at "xxxx bar" maybe skip
Kurt: outside the lines- you are good- you will do well.
Kurt: next time you and I just hang.
Anna: outside the lines??
Kurt: of work. Of political correctness. Where I can tell you you are pretty and it is ok.
Anna: it was just you and I? (She is questioning because they were alone 5-10' then at 10 his girlfriend came out to drive him home, it was the three of them 10-11)
Kurt: yes - until you got hammered... Or until I did.
Anna: lol you did
Kurt: I got the delicious pizza for us. (Sarcasm - the pizza was terrible)
Anna: ok going to bed now
Kurt: next time we eat in your room. Easier to trust room service.
Kurt: Later AP
Anna:
Anna: don't forget me because you are gone now!
Kurt: you're cute. Have a good night sweetie. Sorry I missed on dinner. Order at hotel. Next time in town let me know.
Kurt: I will do the same. I have some friends by you now. In "your town"
Anna: already in bed... No dinner tonight.
Kurt: And that is somehow hot. The dinner part my bad. But the bed part...
Kurt: it is early now that I see it. What do you sleep in?
Anna: seriously you are in the car with "girlfriend"
Kurt: Umm... I am home. I live 15 minutes away. You should come hang. I will cook dinner. (I do not know if he lives with girlfriend)
Anna: so it is "Albany College" pajama pants. Now that is TMI
Kurt: that is cute... And I liked holding your hand. Different, now but had fun. Hope you did too. I want to see.
Anna: to see?
Kurt: Albany College pants
Anna: I have to delete this conversation.
Kurt: I have heard that before. Usually it is from "boss" but glad it's u now
Anna: 12:05 am lol. Hope you are around when I am back here.

 

[sandc]

I'm not sure I know what "another one of those threads" means.

This is the first time I've ever accused her of cheating- and haven't really done that here either.

But to those of us who have been on TAM for a while, trust me, we've read your story over and over again.

PG13,
Cheaters follow a predictable script and so do their betrayed spouse's. Both she and you are following that script so far.

She has a "friend" who is a former boss. You allow it because they used to work for eachother and it's always seemed harmless.

It has escalated now to the point where her friendship with him is more important than the marriage with you. You still want to trust her because she claims she would never do anything like that.

You confront her about texts than mean nothing to her yet she deletes them. There are now no longer any communication between them. Really? Search her purse, search her car, look for a burner phone.

Buy a VAR. PM Weightlifter and ask him which one. Put it in her car, securely fasten it up under the driver's seat. Does she talk anywhere else on the phone? Does she ever receive a call and move into another room or go outside?

Honestly, there are several red flags here.

What is more concern to me at this point is the anger when I asked her to stop seeing this "friend" she only supposedly sees 3-4 times a year for work reasons (that no longer exist as of two weeks ago) she got really defensive and i got the "you Don't trust me speech"

I've shared this situation with three friends- a guy and two girls. The guy - my best friend- is friends with both of us and is really concerned. The two girls chalked it up to eh she was just happy for the attention and not looking to do anything.

Is as inclined to agree until our conversation a few nights ago.

And this is one of the biggest red flags. No, at this point you can't trust her. She's put her former boss above you. She's more concerned about his feelings than yours.

Rhetorical question: WHY is he a former boss? He was replaced. Why? Think about that. And please don't tell us what she told you.

You need to find a sitter for the kids for her next trip to Cleveland. You need to go to Cleveland when she does. Do NOT go WITH her. Just go. Monitor her texts and surprise her one evening. Most wives would be pleasantly surprised to get a visit from their beloved H while they are away on business. What do you think her reaction would be. I know, you can't leave the kids. And there is no one else in the entire world capable of watching them I suppose?

What is your marriage worth to you? How badly do you want to stay married to her? Enough to fight for her? Then fight. If not, then let her go and ready yourself to move on.

 

[sidney2718]

I also let her know that I was rereading the texts the other day, she got very angry that I kept a pic and insisted I delete them.

I hope you didn't do that.

She mentioned earlier that by your questioning you were driving her away. What does she think she's doing to you by seeing the OM?

This looks to be a more complex situation that it seems on the surface, but my thought is that you should be decisive before this becomes more serious. There is no doubt that it will become more serious since they are already planning to meet again.

Yes, this could blow up your marriage, but doing nothing is much more likely to do that. At least that's what I think.

 

[azteca1986]

The part of their convo that really bothers me is this bit:

TKurt: next time we eat in your room. Easier to trust room service.
Kurt: Later AP
Anna:

Think for a minute about the purpose of hotels and the largest piece of furniture in the room (or suite). He envisages a scenario where they are alone together in her hotel room. He invites himself back to her hotel and her response in not - "not happening". He crossed a line there and he was testing the waters. Her failure to give him a firm "No!" which can still be achieved with grace and not jeopardise their "friendship" tells him one of two things - "Try harder, I'm enjoying this" or "I'm open to a scenario where 'One thing led to another"

She says she feels absolutely nothing for him. I asked how she felt - clearly he is coming on to you. She says it grossed her out. I said you didn't seem grossed out. She says she would never ever do anything to jeopardize our life, our marriage, or the family.

There's not a thing about their exchange that gave him the message she was grossed out. Quite the contrary.

The sad thing is she is playing with fire and her failure to shut this down brutally is jeopardising her marriage and family. That deed is already done.

I suggest you either wake her up to the reality of men and flirting or get her the book "Not Just Friends" for her to read with you both.

 

[TDSC60]

Bottom line is that she is more concerned about Kurt, his feelings, and continuing her relationship with him than she is about her husband and his feelings. What does that tell you. Her anger about you sharing your feelings on this and disabling the iPad are huge red flags that she intends to continue with Kurt and hide it from you.

Maybe she has done nothing physical at this point but it could easily turn since it seems she gets tipsy every time she goes to a bar (without you).

"You need to trust me". "I have done nothing wrong". "I do not think of him in that way". "Your insecurities and distrust are going to ruin our marriage". "I deserve my privacy". "You are controlling".

If you have not heard all these excuses, just wait a while, you will hear them. A young mother of two - gets excited about going out to bars with co-workers - has inappropriate texting that involves talk of "dinner in the bedroom next time" and "what are you wearing to bed" - a husband who gets uneasy about the relationship and is told to just "trust" her and that his reaction is ruining the marriage - this scenario has been played out many times on this board.

Now you must define YOUR boundaries. What behavior are YOU willing to accept and live with. For my wife one is zero alone time with male friends and zero alcohol if I am not present. You have to define them clearly and tell her.

She will call you controlling. Tell her that you know you can not control her and she will do what she wants. But based on her choice, then you also have a choice to make.

I told my wife my boundaries. I told her my wife would not behave in this manner out of respect for me and our marriage. She asked "What if I do not agree?" I told her that that is her choice to make - "But I will say one last time, MY WIFE will not behave in that manner". I told her it is her choice, but if she insisted on meeting male friends alone and drinking to excess then she would no longer be my wife.

 

[BobSimmons]

I'm not married, so forgive me if I'm missing something. I have a girlfriend, if another man texted her or made a pass at her, me and him would have a little chat, just so he knows what's up.
Let me be clear, I'm ok with flirting but this man is clearly setting up a date so they can be alone..in a hotel room together.

Once again a man suggested that to my girlfriend, him and I are meeting face to face, just so he knows if he's brave enough to go ahead and arrange the room meeting what the consequences are.

Is it me? For the life of me, another man propositions your woman and you do nothing? To be clear I'm not blaming the wife..well sort of, but it's her boss so there maybe complications but in no way shape or form could I let this slide. No way.

 

[TDSC60]

I'm not married, so forgive me if I'm missing something. I have a girlfriend, if another man texted her or made a pass at her, me and him would have a little chat, just so he knows what's up.
Let me be clear, I'm ok with flirting but this man is clearly setting up a date so they can be alone..in a hotel room together.

Once again a man suggested that to my girlfriend, him and I are meeting face to face, just so he knows if he's brave enough to go ahead and arrange the room meeting what the consequences are.

Is it me? For the life of me, another man propositions your woman and you do nothing? To be clear I'm not blaming the wife..well sort of, but it's her boss so there maybe complications but in no way shape or form could I let this slide. No way.

I expect my wife to be pursued by other men. I expect her to be hit on. I expect other men to try and flirt with her. She is a beautiful, desirable woman. I do not get upset by other men chasing her - that is to be expected. It would be her inappropriate reaction or her action in response that would get me upset.

If my wife came to me and told me about a guy who would just not leave her alone - then I might have a "come to Jesus meeting" with him.

 

[MovingAhead]

I'm not married, so forgive me if I'm missing something. I have a girlfriend, if another man texted her or made a pass at her, me and him would have a little chat, just so he knows what's up.
Let me be clear, I'm ok with flirting but this man is clearly setting up a date so they can be alone..in a hotel room together.

Once again a man suggested that to my girlfriend, him and I are meeting face to face, just so he knows if he's brave enough to go ahead and arrange the room meeting what the consequences are.

Is it me? For the life of me, another man propositions your woman and you do nothing? To be clear I'm not blaming the wife..well sort of, but it's her boss so there maybe complications but in no way shape or form could I let this slide. No way.

Bob, not that I disagree with you... He didn't marry her old boss. He married his Ms.Philly.

I am not above the having a talk with a guy hitting on my girl, but you married the girl... If you cannot trust her to a point then there is no marriage. She crossed the marital boundaries. Good fences make good neighbors.

 

[just got it 55]

:iagree:

The part of their convo that really bothers me is this bit:
Think for a minute about the purpose of hotels and the largest piece of furniture in the room (or suite). He envisages a scenario where they are alone together in her hotel room. He invites himself back to her hotel and her response in not - "not happening". He crossed a line there and he was testing the waters. Her failure to give him a firm "No!" which can still be achieved with grace and not jeopardise their "friendship" tells him one of two things - "Try harder, I'm enjoying this" or "I'm open to a scenario where 'One thing led to another"

There's not a thing about their exchange that gave him the message she was grossed out. Quite the contrary.

The sad thing is she is playing with fire and her failure to shut this down brutally is jeopardising her marriage and family. That deed is already done.

I suggest you either wake her up to the reality of men and flirting or get her the book "Not Just Friends" for her to read with you both.

:iagree: Thats a big YUP

 

[SaltInWound]

Let me be clear, I'm ok with flirting but this man is clearly setting up a date so they can be alone..in a hotel room together.

Did you read the part of the text where she was setting up a date in Feb and repeated her desire for his company?

 

[TheFlood117]

Nope. Nail this to the wall. Now!!! Trust me on this one. I found a text kinda eerily like this between my ex her OM about 3 or 4 weeks before the affair began. She gave me the same stupid story. And then like a month later... Well, just check my first thread.

You need to expose this. Your wife needs to hand all passwords for phone and social media sites. Since the day's of being able to chain a woman to the kitchen then bedroom aren't considered "proper" in society anymore. I suggest counseling.

You need to be proactive. Not reactive.

You have a chance her. To stop an affair from blossoming.

Do not believe your wife. Trust your gut.

You are correct. Where there is smoke there is almost always, fire.

 

[CouldItBeSo]

What kind of bank is it where the bosses and workers go drinking till 9 at night twice a week on work days? :scratchhead:

Well, not a bank I would store my money in.

He suggests they eat in her hotel room next time and she gives him a

There is something terribly wrong with that picture.

Maybe they ate in HIS room already... if they had time to eat from other activities.

 

[InlandTXMM]

I'm not married, so forgive me if I'm missing something. I have a girlfriend, if another man texted her or made a pass at her, me and him would have a little chat, just so he knows what's up.
Let me be clear, I'm ok with flirting but this man is clearly setting up a date so they can be alone..in a hotel room together.

Once again a man suggested that to my girlfriend, him and I are meeting face to face, just so he knows if he's brave enough to go ahead and arrange the room meeting what the consequences are.

Is it me? For the life of me, another man propositions your woman and you do nothing? To be clear I'm not blaming the wife..well sort of, but it's her boss so there maybe complications but in no way shape or form could I let this slide. No way.

I'm also a big believer in the active c*ckblock.

Let him know his body will have to cash checks his penis writes.

 

[TDSC60]

What kind of bank is it where the bosses and workers go drinking till 9 at night twice a week on work days? :scratchhead:

Well, not a bank I would store my money in.


Maybe they ate in HIS room already... if they had time to eat from other activities.

Not to put too fine a point on this but I found it confusing that they skipped dinner, got drunk and settled for bad pizza. Where were they when they got the pizza? His house?

 

[PhillyGuy13]

I searched high and low for a burner and so far haven't found one. Last contact on her cell phone was a week ago Wednesday.

Kurt is now no longer with the bank. They had a group dinner with new boss in upstate NY, followed by a night at a country club where older coworker 65+ was bartender for a fund raiser. Kurt was not involved, but yes she did come home tipsy. This is unusual that she went out, but i chalked it up to the charity event. She was home at 9:00 and very affectionate. Almost never goes out after work.

I am assuming they didn't do anything ahead of time, since he only referenced hand holding. But maybe I'm being naive. His gf met them out at 10:00; they ordered a white pizza that was not good. This was referenced in the I'm so hungover posts the next morning.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[sandc]

Re: Re: Wife's texts while she was on the road.

What kind of bank is it where the bosses and workers go drinking till 9 at night twice a week on work days? :scratchhead:

Well, not a bank I would store my money in.


Maybe they ate in HIS room already... if they had time to eat from other activities.

Pretty much like the bank I used to work at. Two affairs there that I knew of.

 

[6301]

Boils down to this. Text messages husband. Good. Flirting with husband. Good. Going out to dinner with husband. Good.

Text messages to another guy? Bad. Flirting with another man. Bad. Going out to dinner with another man. Bad.

Bet you a shiny red apple that if you did what she's doing, she would not be real happy with you.

When she goes out of town, does she drive? If so, install a GPS on her car. Matter in fact I would do that now. At least you'll know where she is.

 

[ThePheonix]

Anna: 12:05 am lol. Hope you are around when I am back here.

She says she feels absolutely nothing for him. I asked how she felt - clearly he is coming on to you. She says it grossed her out. I said you didn't seem grossed out. She says she would never ever do anything to jeopardize our life, our marriage, or the family.

The only thing that makes sense is if she meant, "Hope you are around when I am back here so you can hold my hand and gross me out some more." Ya, I'm sure that's it.

 

[TRy]

Kurt: next time we eat in your room. Easier to trust room service.
Kurt: Later AP
Anna:
Anna: don't forget me because you are gone now!
Kurt: you're cute. Have a good night sweetie. Sorry I missed on dinner. Order at hotel. Next time in town let me know.

The other man (“OM”) tells your wife that next time they will order room service and eat in her room, and your wife’s only response to this is to tell him “don’t forget me”, instead of saying that this is not going to happen? The OM then calls your wife “cute” for her “don’t forget me” response, followed by calling her “sweetie” and restating that next time they meet in her room.

Anna: already in bed... No dinner tonight.
Kurt: And that is somehow hot. The dinner part my bad. But the bed part...
Kurt: it is early now that I see it. What do you sleep in?
Anna: seriously you are in the car with "girlfriend"
Kurt: Umm... I am home. I live 15 minutes away. You should come hang. I will cook dinner. (I do not know if he lives with girlfriend)
Anna: so it is "Albany College" pajama pants. Now that is TMI
Kurt: that is cute.

The OM continues to hit on her hard, and tries to get her to come to his home alone with him late at night; his girlfriend does not live with him which is why when your wife asked if he was with the girlfriend in the car, he made it clear that he was home without her. Your wife went along with his inappropriateness when she told him what she was sleeping in; he should not have asked such a thing, and she should not have answered.

And I liked holding your hand. Different, now but had fun. Hope you did too. I want to see.
Anna: to see?
Kurt: Albany College pants
Anna: I have to delete this conversation.

The OM continues the non-stop hitting on her. He stated that he liked holding her hand and asked if she liked it too, which he would not have asked if she pulled away immediately like she later claimed to you. The fact that he said holding her hand was “Different, now but had fun” indicates that it was not the first time that they may have held hands. Her telling the OM that she is deleting the conversation, is telling the OM that the true nature of her relationship with the OM is to be kept a secret from you; he was thus encouraged by your wife to continue to be inappropriate with her without fear of repercussions from you. Spouses with healthy martial boundaries would never say such a thing, because they would know that they should be sharing such conversations with their spouses.

The OM is a single man that does not live with his girlfriend, that is no longer a coworker, and has clearly let your wife know that his intentions in seeing her are not honorable, yet she wants to continue to see him without you. You need to tell her that this man is not plutonic opposite sex just friends material for her, and that she must agree to full no contact with the OM going forward. You need to also tell her that going forward there needs to be full transparency between the two of you which includes both of you sharing all passwords without complaint. Remind her that that in healthy marriages that there is no need for privacy accept for when you are in the bathroom.

 

[weightlifter]

I see the eyes rolling already cause yep. WL is doing another RDMU story.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO REPEAT RDMU

Poster RDMU came here with a few red flags that ended up being a full affair.

Abridged version.

One of their friends was the proverbial fox in the henhouse. He worked RDMU's wife for NINE MONTHS before bedding her. Different flavor but same thing. Befriend>Work boundaries>test> until your in.

DO NOT REPEAT RDMU

one day YOUR WIFE will be the drunk one, or pizzed off at you. You are already weak in the sex department.

CRUSH THIS NOW CRUSH THIS HARD CRUSH THIS COMPLETELY!

Inland is right. He calls it something different than what I learned it as but this guy is HITTING ON YOUR WIFE. This player method is so easy I could teach it to you in 20 minutes if you are median looks or above, Work 10 women, even if you are mediocre you will be bedding two of them in 3 months. If you are good it will be 3 of the 10.

Dude you have a chance. You have no idea how much MORE it will hurt when you learn another man has put his load inside YOUR WIFE.