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Discussion starter · #41 ·
Life is a gamble that we as individuals can't control. We might get cancer. We might get struck by lightning. We might marry a low committment partner. We might divorce and marry someone that is no better. My argument is that if I know I am married to a person that will cheat on me, wouldn't the gamble to try again with a different person be worth it? What is the worst that happens? The new spouse also cheats? Lol! Toss your coin and pray for heads. At least with life's experience, we can make a wiser choice than we did the first time.

Resentment has much to do with it. I feel that I can start a new life with no resentment instead of dealing with a mountain of resentment for a WS that betrayed me. Betrayed not only with sexual infidelity, but with lying, deceipt, defaming, etc.

Is it fair for a BS to punish the WS for months or years? I think the WS should be free to pursue a relationship where they too can have a fresh start based on love without resentment. If you love them, set them free!

Not knocking those that are in R. I admire them greatly.

It also is admirable when you recognize defeat, and move onward to your next challenge. Limbo sucks for both the WS and the BS.

Just my opinion as a BS.
:iagree: This could all have been written by me and is EXACTLY where my head is right now!!! Yes, I feel bad but I am tired of 3 plus years on the fence! Limbo does suck, I do feel like I am punishing my spouse and although she just told me yesterday she is fighting for me and not giving up, I feel in the long run - we will both be better off "having a fresh start based on love without resentment".. Love without resentment - I avtually remember that and it was a beautiful thing!:) Thank you!
 
You've tried so hard and you know how you feel. In my opinion, it just is what it is. You've certainly given things a lot of time and you've dedicated a lot of yourself to trying to make things work. Sometimes the wounds of infidelity are too much.

I'd say the vast majority of people on this board, myself included, are very fortunate in the large scheme of things. We're not living in a war zone or held prisoner or facing desperate illness or grinding poverty. We are, for the most part, fortunate in that we can make choices to live our own lives. You have a right to your choice, OP. You can choose to decide for yourself. It's OK to want to be happy, isn't it? Surely, there's nothing wrong with making a choice now to be happy.
 
My conscience will never be clear because I begged her to stay, she did, she held up her end of the bargain, and now I want to move on... I seriously thought over time it would fade. We've had some amazing times over these past 12 + years since her affair... But it's just always been there, and I'm tired of it and him and her...tired...sick and tired!

Every bargain has a termination clause, either implicit or explicit. If you want to terminate the bargain fairly, give her the appropriate notice.
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
S4E wants honest opinions not colored by his past. He is leaving out a very important part to his situation. His case is INSANELY different than many people giving him advice to tough it out. IMO, it isn't a true trigger, it is fresh in his mind for a reason.
I left out my story and posted this story written by someone else because I finally found an article that validated my feelings, my guilt, and where my head was at as well as why! I wanted to know if others experienced this remorse years later as well and if the pain would ever really go away. I guess only if I can go back to justifying how and why it happened, and putting it forever behind me. I know how my mind works and honestly I don't think that will ever happen. Doi love my wife? Yes I do. But I think I love her enough to let her go and hope she finds happiness with someone else because I don't believe it can happen with me. There are too many layers on this onion now and she has resentment as well... Lovemytruck said it best and pretty much descibes what I believe in my heart... "I think the WS should be free to pursue a relationship where they too can have a fresh start based on love without resentment. If you love them, set them free!" It's a sad end to a love story, but it is what it is :(
 
My wife has cried about this and I caught her crying one morning when she thought I left for work and I came back for something. She was crying uncontrollably and said I'm so sorry i did this to you. But other than a few short burst of emotion, she generally says this happened many years ago, this is not who she is now, and she needs to move forward from it - the problem is, I'm stuck!

She probably does need to move forward.

I agree, but the cut was too deep. She has all of these qualities - including the wonderful, but if you read my story - the cut was too deep. I thought I could handle it but I can't and I no longer want to try. This has been a part of me for too long and I have to put it and her behind me! Sure she has done a lot of good and is a good person! But she's a good person who was effing me and my so called best friend at the same time. She would slow dance with me at night looking into my eyes making me feel like I was the most special guy in the world, give me a BJ on the way home from dancing (yes this happened more than once), go home and "make love" to me, and then do him the next morning on her way to work? Who does that kind of sh!t? Not someone I can trust or respect! Would she do it now? I seriosly believe NO - But I seriously believed NO back then too!

Sick and wrong. Many who have not be betrayed don't understand that it is NOT the fault of the loyal spouse.

My conscience will never be clear because I begged her to stay, she did, she held up her end of the bargain, and now I want to move on... I seriously thought over time it would fade. We've had some amazing times over these past 12 + years since her affair... But it's just always been there, and I'm tired of it and him and her...tired...sick and tired!
Hell, you are honest.

I occasionally deal with the guilt of wanting out after an attempt for 8 months at R. I am now enjoying a new marriage with a much different woman. It does make me feel a little guilty because I am very happy, and I know my exWW is struggling to find herself.

It seems that nobody enjoys a lack of security in their marriage. If you really do want your wife to have a complete relationship, it probably will have to be with a different man.

She is still thinking that you might leave. The fear of you leaving might be worse than the reality of doing it. Change is difficult. Often it is better after the acceptance of a new life settles in.

My rationale to deal with my guilt over leaving my exWW is that we are both free to find, create, develop better new relationships.

You obviously are at a point where you have mulled it over for YEARS. Don't let the fear of a new life limit your potential.

Hope I didn't come across as too preachy. Just my opinion after seeing the things you have posted.

The new life may exceed your expectations. It worked for me.
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
I'll take a stab at it...

First, there are more women than men at this period of life.

Second, it's harder for the women to use what's left of their beauty to get men, so they need to have/develop their charming personality.

Third, even a 50+ y.o. person wants love. I doubt if the women at this stage had already given up on life.

Fourth, I dont think men at this age care to start a family. So, there are more likely to date and dump.

Fifth, 50 y.o. men are more likely interested in 30 or 40 y.o. women than 50 y.o. thereby leaving more of these older women available for dating.

Six, ...
I have only recently thought about the idea of maybe down the road actually dating someone else??? I have been married for my entire life since I was 18. My first marriage lasted 2 years, the second 31 (although I always say we started over after the affair). I know both times I jumped right into relationships and fell hard for people I didn't really know. I want to try being friends with people and going out for motorcycle rides, movies, dinner, bands, dancing, whatever and just enjoy the company as friends. If something clicks at some point - great, but I am in no hurry, I just want to have fun without having this black cloud over me. When I have triggers and think about him, I'll know the person I'm with had nothing to do with it. Maybe I'm fooling myself, but I have actually thought ahead to a life on my own and I like it.

I think you're probably right about all of your points except maybe #5. I'm sure that's true for most guys and I guess most of the woman I've found myself attracted to do end up being 5-10 years younger than me (my wife is 4)... but through a riding group I belong to I have recently become friends with a couple of women that are both 4 years older than me and I find them quite attractive? And yes - one actually asked me if I was married and I said yes... but it was good for my ego to have someone ask! :)
 
Discussion starter · #47 · (Edited)
Hope I didn't come across as too preachy. Just my opinion after seeing the things you have posted.
No way! Thank you so much, your words are straight out of my head and just what I need to hear. I need validation for how I think and feel! I have told my wife that I want to try a seperation. She fights it because she says once I leave it will be over. I have said if it is then that is what's meant to be. I don't want to beat her up about this any longer. I have also said that even if we do reconsile, at some point I would NEED TO DIVORCE HER... I have made it clear that in my mind our marriage died back then and if we ever were to move forward, a big healing step would be getting divorced and a new beginning. I don't think she likes that idea, but finally - I am doing what I need to do for me! First step is an out of house seperation so I can decide where I want to take my life without the daily guilt of the look on her face as she or I says goodnight first and goes to bed alone in our seperate rooms. :(
 
I've had the experience of PTSD that hit me many years after the trauma. The traumatizing wound never really healed, I discovered. Instead, I had just lived day to day - yes, my life had rewards and there was happiness, but there was a background anxiety that finally came to a head. I have to say that the resolution was truly cathartic. The experience turned me into a different person. I, too, had guilt and resentment, but was finally able to be OK with it all, to just let it go and move on. I was so much more solid and at peace & have been so ever since.

I could be projecting, S4E, but I wish that cathartic effect for you. Your W never really dealt with the hurt that she caused the both of you and now she may finally have to do that. Her resolution will be much more bittersweet than yours, though, in my opinion.

I wish you well whatever you choose to do.
 
I left out my story and posted this story written by someone else because I finally found an article that validated my feelings, my guilt, and where my head was at as well as why! I wanted to know if others experienced this remorse years later as well and if the pain would ever really go away. I guess only if I can go back to justifying how and why it happened, and putting it forever behind me. I know how my mind works and honestly I don't think that will ever happen. Doi love my wife? Yes I do. But I think I love her enough to let her go and hope she finds happiness with someone else because I don't believe it can happen with me. There are too many layers on this onion now and she has resentment as well... Lovemytruck said it best and pretty much descibes what I believe in my heart... "I think the WS should be free to pursue a relationship where they too can have a fresh start based on love without resentment. If you love them, set them free!" It's a sad end to a love story, but it is what it is :(
Then it is time to move on. It'll hurt, but you both can start fresh.

I quoted MattMatt because he is correct in a normal situation. Many of the people in R deal with their feelings, have the big secondary confrontations and get to mutually work on issues with their spouses. When they give good advice, I normally agree. MattMatt is 100% correct about letting triggers go IF, your reconciliation is normal. You never got to deal with the triggers, have a true secondary confrontation concerning these feelings or have her working on YOUR END of the R. That's what many people forget, R is a two way street. You both need to support each other through the difficult periods. Your R, IMO, was strictly one way to her benefit and your detriment.

She got to move on, bury the affair and never deal with the ramifications. I'd argue you aren't necessarily triggering you are having PTSD episodes. On your side that anger, hurt, disgust, embarrassment and emotions festered with no outlet. Then when that damn was bursting, your new counselor opened the flood gate and 12 years worth of sewage was finally freed. It has now basically ended your marriage.

Psych101 don't hold me to that opinion.
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
Then it is time to move on. It'll hurt, but you both can start fresh.

She got to move on, bury the affair and never deal with the ramifications. I'd argue you aren't necessarily triggering you are having PTSD episodes. On your side that anger, hurt, disgust, embarrassment and emotions festered with no outlet. Then when that damn was bursting, your new counselor opened the flood gate and 12 years worth of sewage was finally freed. It has now basically ended your marriage.

Psych101 don't hold me to that opinion.
I actually told my therapist that I had most of the symptoms of PTSD. She said she really didn't want to put that as the diagnosis and have it on my records? I don't know what difference it makes, but she used a different diagnosis and said she didn't completely agree that it was PTSD. I have actually gotten worse since leaving therapy and may find another therapist... I feel uncomfortable going out and not asking my wife to go along, but I don't want her to go with because she acts like everythings fine and I don't want to keep putting on the false illusion around friends anymore. Usually I either just stay out after work, or I go home, do a few chores, waste time on the computer or play guitar, and have a few drinks (it's become a daily ritual that I need to stop), and then I go to bed alone wondering what the hell I'm doing?

I still am and probably always will be confused. My wife has so many good qualities. She was amazing with my mom when she was alive, I see her doing hair for disabled kids and the elderly and she is so good with them, she really is an outgoing person, she loves to have fun, she works very hard at her job and around the house, and she has a lot of spirit and I'm afraid leaving will crush that - That's not what I want. But I just can no longer stomach or get over what she did to me (or maybe I just don't want to?)

I used to always rationalize that she was a victim and now that I know she wasn't, now that I know she actually liked the attention and the sex, now that I know she pursued him because "she got greedy", now that I realize all the pain this not only caused me but other people including the OM's ex girlfriend who still can't be in a relationship to this day because she had been cheated on by a previous husband (my wife knew this)... I just can't accept it!!! I actually get nauseous when I think about it and I can feel the anger build to where I want to throw or hit something!:mad: I wish I could just put it away, focus on the good, and move forward..we have 30+ years and it pisses me off that it's ending this way - but I didn't do this... and I have to get over feeling bad for everyone else!

I have been honest with her about where I'm at and that I need to do my own thing at least for awhile, but last weekend I took her on a short 60 mile motorcycle ride with me because it was a big local event and so I asked her if she'd like to ride with (just thought I'd try to be nice)...and I was uncomfortable with her hanging on to me...and of course she started rubbing my back and I tightened up and started thinking about things and felt the rage building. I shouldn't ask, but again, I feel bad...

She has always exaggerated things and I often found myself uncomfortable sticking up for her but I usually did, and yet if I called her out on it, I was always the a-hole who was putting her down... so I usually just kept quiet. She says she can tell that I'm angry and she feels like everything she does annoys her and that's actually become somewhat true. She said I wish things could go back to how they were before all of this came back out..then she caught herself and said "how she thought things were".

I wish I could go back to how I thought things were before her affair too... Sadly - that's just not possible! Thanks for the comments and replies...
 
A lot of PTSD is about unresolved guilt. A lot. In my experience, the guilt at the crux of it is often not the obvious, which in your case is the guilt of leaving her now. Rather, it is often something simple from the time of the trauma.
 
I still am and probably always will be confused. My wife has so many good qualities. She was amazing with my mom when she was alive, I see her doing hair for disabled kids and the elderly and she is so good with them, she really is an outgoing person, she loves to have fun, she works very hard at her job and around the house, and she has a lot of spirit and I'm afraid leaving will crush that - That's not what I want.
You know what's interesting? This may be the entire problem. Your rage and hurt is now resentment. You watched her step up, do all these great things and you suffered. She kept her family, she kept you, she kept her life and she never had to address the issue until now. Even now, she wants it to be like it was, well like it was during the twelve years you swallowed your emotions.

The best analogy about your marriage is a chipped windshield. If you get it filled (address the problem), soon after it happens, it'll last longer and be an easier cheaper fix. Let it go too long it cracks or it shatters and needs to be replaced.

But I just can no longer stomach or get over what she did to me (or maybe I just don't want to?)
If you didn't want to, you wouldn't have tried for 12 years. The fact she is shocked and hurt means you made a valiant attempt at putting it in the past. Yet, as most of us know on TAM, you can't move past the affair deal with the repercussions.
 
I still am and probably always will be confused. My wife has so many good qualities.
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I used to always rationalize that she was a victim and now that I know she wasn't, ... I just can't accept it!!!
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I wish I could just put it away, focus on the good, and move forward..we have 30+ years and it pisses me off that it's ending this way - but I didn't do this... and I have to get over feeling bad for everyone else!
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I wish I could go back to how I thought things were before her affair too... Sadly - that's just not possible!
S4E, I completely relate to all of this except the part about feeling bad for everyone else. Well, I feel sympathy but not guilt for other innocent bystanders who have been hurt.

We've been married just over 30 yrs. Now I find out my marriage never was what I thought it was, and I never knew the real her. There are things I know she did which are contrary to who I thought she was, and which are not the actions of a kind caring person. Also there are things which I don't know but suspect are out there. These are the toughest in a way because the imagination runs wild and I do the comparison of the imagined thing (must have been fun/wild/amazing/sexy) compared to me (must be boring/unsexy/undesirable). The comparison is false and unreasonable, yet common with infidelity. Mind movies suck.

Yet if you knew my wife well, you would describe her as a lively, accomplished, intelligent, caring person. She is professionally successful, very involved with charities, does community service, etc.

In some ways we are a very good match. The places we aren't perfect can be worked on.

But what she did? It is a bitter pill to swallow. And there is a feeling of being the fool, of being humiliated by her. And she knows all the facts of what she did, so doesn't she view me as the humiliated fool?????

If only she hadn't done those things. But she did. I'm the one paying the price, not her. She says, "Stop thinking about the past. Get over it. Concentrate on the future".
 
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