[harrybrown]

Tell you to go on the date with you.

 

[tulsy]

...
She says he's just a friend and it isn't a date, and my jealousy is a problem - it's pretty much what drove a wedge between us. There's nothing wrong with a married woman having male friends.

She doesn't go on dates with men, she has a male friend who she dated once back in high school, she's adamant there is nothing between them, and I believe her. and I sometimes get paranoid that she might meet someone when she goes out drinking with her friends due to my self-esteem issues.

She is currently living with a female friend.

I'm going to tell her that if anything happens with anyone during our separation, then it's over because I won't be second best.

I am also seeking counselling to get over my self-esteem issues and we are starting no contact tonight.

I love this woman to death, I don't want to get an annulment, or a divorce.

Like, how many male friends does she have?

You better wake up. There is definitely something wrong with:

- married person going out with any ex, in any capacity if the spouse is uncomfortable with it
- married person going out with someone of the opposite-sex without the spouse having knowledge before hand, and then dismissing their spouses feelings by calling them jealous after they learns about it
- married person going out with someone of the opposite-sex that their spouse doesn't know when the spouse is uncomfortable with it
- married person going out to dinner with someone of the opposite-sex, regardless of what their spouse thinks about it

I guess if you are sure that you are the one with the problem, then keep going down this path.

This path leads to:

- you taking all of the blame for the relationship issues, since she will insist it's all because of your jealousy, and you agree with anything she says so she will stay
- she will no longer respect you and it will get progressively worse until you catch her cheating
- she will continue to go on dates with men and you will continue to try and accept it but inside you will keep fighting with yourself because you don't like it and never will

She is very young, we met when we were 18 and within 3 months had moved in together. It was all very sudden.

She does want to recapture her teenage years and have a busy social calendar, but I know that she also loves me. This is why she is conflicted. She needs to see that she can have me, and friends, as long as they are nothing more.

Ya, she needs to know that she can have you and other men as well....but they're just friends, right?

Then you go get yourself female friends. Lots of them. Go out with girls and have fun, just friends right? Go to bars and meet girls for new friends. Contact past girlfriends on Facebook and meet up for dinner, one on one. Go on...why not? Just friends, right?

Dude, someone already said it, but you really are naive. She's not a teenager anymore, and she's your wife.

Why are you here, and what do you want to hear? That you are the one with the problem and what your wife is doing is acceptable? That's not the case.

What's your plan? To learn to accept her having lots of male attention and going out with other guys whenever she wants; to learn how to not get jealous when this happens for the rest of your life so that you can stay married to her? Is that the plan?

 

[helolover]

Don't allow yourself to be cuckold'd by this woman. It's not okay. If you go along with it, you're just being a beta orbiter - waiting for her to find you desirable again. It seems you're already second place. She wants her separation to date other dudes.

Pull your head out of the sand. Put your big boy pants on and state your position. You will not get her back by accommodating her.

Go NC, stay NC. Stop supporting her trash. Start and maintain the 180 (remember, this isn't a ploy to get her back). Get your stuff together and stop making excuses for her.

HL

 

[GotLifeBack]

I wish you guys knew her - then you'd know, she just wants to be more socially active. I fully get that she doesn't quite realise what marriage is - she's not mature enough and I accept that. I shouldn't have married her, and more to the point she definitely shouldn't have married me as she's told me she had "doubts" about us but figured they'd pass. I still love this woman very much though and I want her in my life.

It's not just jealousy that was my problem, I pushed her away, rejected her compliments, and at times rejected her sexually because of my depression, which made her feel unwanted.

I know it's not all my fault and I've told her that - at the start of our relationship on two occasions she sought to make me jealous by chatting to other guys in bars and ignoring me all night. She told me some months later that she was "testing" me - I believe this is what she is doing now by going to dinner with this guy. She's as much to blame as I.

She also didn't communicate with me, she bottled everything up then snapped. Classic WAW.

We have started NC, for two weeks as of last night. I saw her to say "goodbye" (i got emotional...) and she pretty much told me that there is no chance of her ever getting back together with me, as it's "too late" - but as she said "You know that I love you" and that we'd see how she felt after a couple of weeks. She's hurt that I've been miserable even though we're newly wed - she doesn't seem to get that it's a sickness. I've been on medication for the past four weeks and have started counselling though.

This happened before 3 years ago, I got depressed and she left me, so this relapse has really driven her away - she says she doesn't believe in "third chances".

She's confusing the hell out of me. I'm not going to lie to you guys though, I hope this time apart makes her see what she's missing out on.

I've taken all of our wedding photos down, taken my wedding ring off and have been trying to occupy my mind so as not to dwell on it.

 

[ThreeStrikes]

She's going to use this time apart to bang the other guy.

Let her go. Go to an attorney and file. You are both too young for marriage.

 

[LongWalk]

The person who wants the relationship less has all the power. You say that if your wife slept with another man it would be over. Be honest, in your current state of neediness if she revealed that she had ONS and discovered that it was you she wanted, you'd probably reconcile. She knows this. To win respect you have walk away, file to annul. If she loves you, that will catch her attention. Discussion of depression and relationship will just sink you lower and lower in her eyes.
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[Machiavelli]

She's going to use this time apart to bang the other guy.

Let her go. Go to an attorney and file. You are both too young for marriage.

Too young for marriage at 25, the onset of middle age? Hardly. Prior to 200 years ago, a person of such an age could be expected to have 10 kids after 10 years of marriage.

This is merely mother nature at work, redirecting attraction to males with higher testosterone levels and greater attractiveness. OP knows his "sex rank" and he seems to think this is the best woman he's ever going to get. Once he gets his testosterone levels sorted out, he'll be able to get it together and move on.

 

[Ceegee]

You have been brainwashed by society to believe that women should be able to do whatever they want. If we question it we're jealous and controlling.

It's why men have such poor boundaries and why the divorce rate is so high.

Don't feel bad. All of us were brainwashed too. That's why we're here. Most of our stories sound a lot like yours.

Your wife flirts with other men in front of you. Now she's going on a date with an old BF. Of course you have low self esteem. A wife should be supportive of you. Instead she's doubling down on the behavior to make you feel worse.

She's a selfish cake-eater.

 

[ThreeStrikes]

Too young for marriage at 25, the onset of middle age? Hardly. Prior to 200 years ago, a person of such an age could be expected to have 10 kids after 10 years of marriage.

This is merely mother nature at work, redirecting attraction to males with higher testosterone levels and greater attractiveness. OP knows his "sex rank" and he seems to think this is the best woman he's ever going to get. Once he gets his testosterone levels sorted out, he'll be able to get it together and move on.

I'm not talking about reproducing. I'm talking about marriage. Marriage is a social construct.

Which society are you referring to, 200 years ago? There were many.

The reason we have society, and social rules,ethics,and customs, is to overcome the animalistic nature of humanity.

Choosing to betray your spouse is a matter of integrity, not biology.

In today's society, in the US, 25 is too young for marriage. The OP even admits it.

In the middle east, where society is more primitive, then sure.. A 25 year old can have 10 kids. And multiple wives.

Sorry for the topic derailment.

 

[I'mInLoveWithMyHubby]

She's not testing you. She's done with the marriage.

I'm sorry, but you need to move on.

 

[LongWalk]

Agree with all the posters above. Your wife regrets marrying you. That seed of doubt has come so early on. Go dark on her. Only interact with regards to the annulment. She will be looking for you to return with the anxious look of a young dog desperate to mate. Deny her that predictability. On the day after the day that your exile ends have the goodbye papers in the registered post to her. Don't be at home if she returns. Come back late. Hang out with friends. Go to shooting range or theater.

Don't let her reject or pity you. You can do better than her.
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[Machiavelli]

I'm not talking about reproducing. I'm talking about marriage. Marriage is a social construct.

All societies constructed it as a means of regulating reproduction. Are you advocating reproduction absent marriage?

Which society are you referring to, 200 years ago? There were many.

Colonial America, Native America (including the matrilineal ones), Europe, Africa, ME, Asia, we can go all the way back to the ancient world.

The reason we have society, and social rules,ethics,and customs, is to overcome the animalistic nature of humanity.

Society is an attempt to overcome nature. Obviously, an increasingly less successful attempt as feral behaviors such as those exhibited by this WW reassert their dominance.

Choosing to betray your spouse is a matter of integrity, not biology.

Actually, the urge is quite biological and the success or failure to control the urge also has a biological component. Willpower is in short supply until male testosterone levels start plateauing around age 25, and that's why it was called "middle age"; i.e. the end of "youth."

In today's society, in the US, 25 is too young for marriage. The OP even admits it.

That's just the excuse, but in the present environment marriage is a very risky proposition for the delta males.

In the middle east, where society is more primitive, then sure.. A 25 year old can have 10 kids. And multiple wives.

Sorry for the topic derailment.

While there is nothing inherently wrong with polygyny, I don't really consider 1950's USA to be particularly "primitive." Same goes for Renaissance Europe and even Rome.

 

[LongWalk]

In this debate, and there are very few TAM women posters who engage or show interest in this subject, men feel strongly. My take is that long ago human societies that gave beta males a better shot a reproduction via a wife who was bound to him by moral stricture were more successful. Twelve men with spears who advanced as team beat the average super athletic alpha male warrior.

The men who participated in this scheme were not interested in having their leaders sleep with their wives. Marriage reduced strife (e.g., jealous murders). Population increased as a result. Agriculture and industry further magnified the success of the monogamous nuclear family.

As Mach points out all societies are primarily concerned with regulation of sexual and reproductive behavior. Even if some Islamic societies permit polygamy, the average Muslim family is probably closer to a Western nuclear family for economic reasons.

So, for men who marry in modern Western society, the desire of women switch partners is major shock. Women are looking for different DNA to create a new combination that increases the chances of their genes going on. Adulterous sex is often without a condom for good reason.

Are men net winners or losers? Is the current system, i.e., no fault divorce, this can be debated.

As far as ethics go. Yes, this is a matter of integrity.

By the way, an old buddy of mine (corporate IT middle manager) called to shot the breeze and wanted to express how frustrated he was because a smart beautiful woman who had just joined his team was flirting with him. “I think because I am one of the two senior persons in the group, she wants to be on my good side for the sake of job security.”

For him her flirting underlined the dullness and frustration his married life. He has two small sons and he and his wife and don’t have a good sex life anymore. He is quite a moral person. However, his family background – he was abandoned early on by his father to be raised as the only child of a nutty single mom – has left the sort of void and scars that create cheaters. I don’t think will try if for no other reason than the woman engaging him in flirtation but she is not in love with him and there is no LTR there to be had.

But it was torture to be paired with her at a team-building event that led to physical contact (modern work life in which companies undermine marriages by demanding emotional allegiance to colleagues). He could have sex with her after at that sort of event but it would probably blow up in his face and he knows it.

The moral difference between the cheaters and non-cheaters is not always so great as we might like to believe.

There is plenty of dull misery in marriages that have better and worse periods. Infidelity may give happiness to some when they get away with it but when it blows up the pain is rather raw.

 

[GotLifeBack]

So first day of No Contact is almost over, and she has already text me.

The text was just to let me know she'd taken care of a financial arrangement, that she had already told me she would do and thus a pointless text. It was in a light-hearted tone, and she tagged a "hope you're ok" on the end.

I haven't replied and nor am I going to. She needs to respect that I am strong, and this is how to show her.

I won't be second best to anyone, and I won't be her safety net. I deserve better than that. If NC gets her to come back, then great, if not, then great cause I'll still have me, and my friends.

 

[LongWalk]

You are placing too much emphasis on surviving NC and hoping for a result from it. You need to change yourself and the dynamics of your relationship. That will take more time.

 

[GutPunch]

So first day of No Contact is almost over, and she has already text me.

The text was just to let me know she'd taken care of a financial arrangement, that she had already told me she would do and thus a pointless text. It was in a light-hearted tone, and she tagged a "hope you're ok" on the end.

I haven't replied and nor am I going to. She needs to respect that I am strong, and this is how to show her.

I won't be second best to anyone, and I won't be her safety net. I deserve better than that. If NC gets her to come back, then great, if not, then great cause I'll still have me, and my friends.

She will test you and your resolve. Don't fold like a pup tent when she does.

What did you find out from the phone records?

How does she support herself financially? Do you help?

 

[Iver]

...I won't be second best to anyone, and I won't be her safety net. I deserve better than that. If NC gets her to come back, then great, if not, then great cause I'll still have me, and my friends.

Good.

Keep that attitude and you'll be A.O.K. (and you'll have your self-respect as well.)

 

[GotLifeBack]

So, little update.

I've been keeping a journal of everything lately. A female friend (only a friend) had invited me to stay with her for a while. I wrote this in my journal.

Yesterday my wife decided to read my journal when she was moving her stuff out. She read about that and went crazy.

Now she tells me she's in bed lying next to her new man, and that she's moved on.

Obviously a rebound, but that **** can take a hike.

 

[GotLifeBack]

I'm so damn angry right now

She was the biggest mistake of my life.

 

[smallsteps]

I'm so damn angry right now

She was the biggest mistake of my life.

Good you realized it now. Pick yourself up, walk away from her and start over.
You are young enough that someday you will find the right person an live a happy life.
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