[grubs]

No, past invoices go back quite a ways and I have never had access since we moved in together 20 years ago.

How would you know if she won't give you access? I know my Verizon will only goes back to the previous four months on my account. Credit cards may have a year, but some only three months.

I think I've come to terms of the fact she likely did sleep with him in Jamaica. I've had 2 years to think about that one, so whether she did or did not will not be the thing that makes me leave her. Being dishonest and/or not showing remorse will. As for the polygraph, I'll think about that one. Only if I feel it is necessary, as the most important thing is that he is in the past. Current phone records would prove that.

Access to the phone records sounds like a deal breaker boundary. Show me the bills or I'm done. There is no legitimate reason for you not to have access.

I appreciate the advice bobert. To add a bit more context, the reason I don't think she is still in any communication with him is because I have snooped extensively on her phone and computer. No calls/texts/whatsapp or anything I could find. No photos sent, hidden folders, you name it.

I don't think you realize how quickly they can adapt when you they want to keep it going. There's an entire subreddit for cheaters where they discuss opsec to avoid being caught. Installing /removing apps tactic only when they need to the contact their AP. Burner phones. etc.

 

[Diana7]

I think I've come to terms of the fact she likely did sleep with him in Jamaica. I've had 2 years to think about that one, so whether she did or did not will not be the thing that makes me leave her. Being dishonest and/or not showing remorse will. As for the polygraph, I'll think about that one. Only if I feel it is necessary, as the most important thing is that he is in the past. Current phone records would prove that.

What is your plan to get her to finally tell the truth without using a polygraph?

 

[bobert]

I think I've come to terms of the fact she likely did sleep with him in Jamaica. I've had 2 years to think about that one, so whether she did or did not will not be the thing that makes me leave her. Being dishonest and/or not showing remorse will. As for the polygraph, I'll think about that one. Only if I feel it is necessary, as the most important thing is that he is in the past. Current phone records would prove that.

The phone records will only show activity tied to her number, and only for a limited amount of time. They won't reveal what occurred before that time frame, or if she moved things underground after you caught her - hidden email, secret apps, secret websites, a burner phone, etc. I know you said you checked her phone but there are countless ways to hide an affair. It's possible she did end it, but from what you describe, she isn't acting like someone who has truly ended the affair, processed it, and shown genuine remorse.

You will be pushed to polygraph her. If you don't, you'll need a way to determine honesty. Personally, I didn't go the polygraph route. In your shoes though, I may have because she had her chance to come clean, and lied for years through "reconciliation" and MC. I fully trust my wife's timeline and story about what happened, because she has given me no reason not to. I asked for everything, she trickle-truthed for a little over a month, then told me everything. There was no defensiveness, no asking what I already knew, etc. She was, and still is, a completely open book with it - to whoever is asking about it. I found one inaccuracy when re-reading her written timeline years later, but it was probably just a typo or mix up, and one that changed nothing. So it's possible to trust the story fully without a polygraph (which I don't trust anyway), but that only happens if she proves it through consistent transparency, not because you choose to swallow your doubts.

Also, be careful how you interpret her reaction when you do confront her. If she breaks down crying and "tells you everything", that's not remorse - it's fear of losing the marriage. Real remorse doesn't hit that quickly in someone who was caught. It takes time, accountability, and self-reflection. My wife is extremely remorseful, but it didn't really "hit" her until months later in MC, and that memory of her reaction is burned into my mind. If she has true remorse, you will see it through consistent actions over time - full transparency, accountability, no defensiveness, patience with your questions, understanding of why you need what you do and why you feel the way you do, and an eagerness to help you heal but also fix herself, without you have to drag her around to do it.

I would strongly suggest having a plan for what happens after confrontation. You said being dishonest or showing a lack of remorse would be the thing that makes you leave her, good, but have a plan in place for how you want to respond if that occurs. On the flip side, what about if she, without any hints about what you know, tells you everything that you know (remember remorse isn't showing up that quickly)? What is your next step? Have a plan for that as well, and be prepared to follow through whichever way it goes.

I don't recommend confronting her, hearing her out, then sliding back into MC as if nothing else needs to change. She has to see that actions have consequences, and that repairing this level of betrayal and years of lies will take more than words and tears this time. Let her be scared, let her work for it. Without that accountability, you risk ending up in a cycle where she does just enough to keep you around, but never enough to truly rebuild what she broke.

 

[gameopoly5]

I think I've come to terms of the fact she likely did sleep with him in Jamaica. I've had 2 years to think about that one, so whether she did or did not will not be the thing that makes me leave her. Being dishonest and/or not showing remorse will. As for the polygraph, I'll think about that one. Only if I feel it is necessary, as the most important thing is that he is in the past. Current phone records would prove that.

The most important thing is that he is in the past.
Glad everything has been resolved for you, wishing you and your wife a prosperous future together.
End of thread.

 

[Wolfman1968]

I appreciate all the words of advice here. To add a bit more context, I'm confident she is done with him because I have snooped on her phone and computer: no evidence anywhere of any communication - calls, text, what's app, email, etc. I've checked numerous times, and nothing. I've searched for photos, also nothing. Hidden folders, you name it.

I would point out that you are only checking (and able to check) the devices that you know about.

You post here in part to sound out members for advice/information based on their past experiences. If you peruse other posters' threads, you will find that once cheaters are initially exposed, they very often take it underground, and claim that the affair is ended. One common tactic used to go underground is to get a NEW, HIDDEN phone that the betrayed spouse knows nothing about. That way, the known devices look clean, while the cheaters can continue communication through the secret phone.

So, yes, you have not found evidence of continued cheating on her devices that you know about, but don't get too confident. She could be ahead of you on this. And she has already lied to you before, and you found out the affair was longer than she admitted. That means she's willing to take steps to deceive you--she already did, after all.

 

[olk]

I appreciate all the words of advice here. To add a bit more context, I'm confident she is done with him because I have snooped on her phone and computer: no evidence anywhere of any communication - calls, text, what's app, email, etc. I've checked numerous times, and nothing. I've searched for photos, also nothing. Hidden folders, you name it.
As for the (final good riddance) email to him, I was part of that exercise. It was something discussed in counselling, and we went home right afterwards and sent it.
I think the actual reason she didn't want me to see the phone records is because of timing: she told me it transpired as a result of her father dying, which was in June 2023. Her texts/calls would surely show it started long before. I saw the texts, and they literally started in mid 2022 when he told her his wife died. Their communication got inappropriate by late 2022, so I'm sure that is the thing she wants to hide. I don't believe there has been any further communication since I found out (Oct 2023).
My end game: to get her to admit to all of it and come clean. If she refuses to come clean, that will likely be the end of us. If she can show genuine remorse and full honesty, and a willingness to continue with the counselling, I'm content to continue working on us.
I do appreciate the advice!

Cheaters are extremely cunning. Therefore, the absence of electronic evidence (on gadgets you know) regarding an affair does not mean the absence or continuation of an affair.
They can communicate not through a phone, iPad, or computer, but by meeting in person (at her work), using good old letters and notes.
They can communicate through accomplices (her friends, relatives, coworkers).
She may have phones that you don't know about.
They can send messages to each other via push notifications from banks, transferring $1 to each other.
He can just come to your house when you're not there, and she can come to him without electronic traces.
They can use advanced modern phone apps that leave no trace.
She truly loves him, and he loves her, they couldn't just break off a long-term relationship, so sooner or later they will meet and/or start communicating anyway.
You can be sure that there is no contact between them only if you take away all her gadgets, lock her at home, and you will be on duty at all the doors with a gun.
If you want to make sure there's no affair, then hire a PI.
If you stay with her, you're destined to become a cop and a detective for the rest of your life.

 

[Enigmatic]

I have snooped extensively on her phone and computer. No calls/texts/whatsapp or anything I could find.

Two words: Burner phone.

 

[Marc878]

Most betrayed spouses want to believe it’s just an emotional affair. It’s usually physical.
You have enough evidence to make a decision. I think it’s pathetic that you are afraid of her knowing you investigated her. She doesn’t have a rite of privacy to cheat.
You don’t need a confrontation. All that will get you is more lies and blame for making her cheat.

 

[Rob_1]

No need to be a jerk.

He's not being a jerk, he's telling you like it is. It’s YOU, who's refusing to see it like it is. In my book that's a man that lacks self respect and pride. You're seeking the proverbial "needle in the hay stack" in order to have an excuse to stay.

She's been with that dude long before she met you, and you're still debating whether she had sex with him in Jamaica? Pleeese dude!

Moreover, the fact that you're saying that it's not whether she has sex with the dude, but not telling you the truth is your beef with her is telling that @Mr.Married is telling you like it is.
As a man, if my woman had an affair with another person, is over for me. My sense of pride and self respect wouldn't allow me to continue in that relationship, because it wouldn't matter the who, when, how, how many times, just that she did, period. Relationship's over.

 

[Beach123]

Two affairs? Why isn’t she your EX wife?
People don’t change. She will cheat again.
you like living with that info?

 

[Gabriel]

I think I've come to terms of the fact she likely did sleep with him in Jamaica. I've had 2 years to think about that one, so whether she did or did not will not be the thing that makes me leave her. Being dishonest and/or not showing remorse will. As for the polygraph, I'll think about that one. Only if I feel it is necessary, as the most important thing is that he is in the past. Current phone records would prove that.

If she "complied" with all your demands, but you knew this guy was really her preference, and she was just playing by rules despite her feelings....would you stay with her?

 

[Laurentium]

so whether she did or did not will not be the thing that makes me leave her. Being dishonest and/or not showing remorse will.

Okay.

So, as @QuietRiot said, is there a tone of remorse? Or a tone of "how dare you" from her or "you need to let go of this" ??

 

[Mr.Married]

So if I’m reading this correctly in combination with your other thread from way back 10 plus years ago then she was banging both of you while still married to her first husband.

So after the other affair guy wouldn’t leave his wife she took you as the leftovers (probably because her husband kicked her out) but now that the other affairs guys wife is dead he is banging your wife again.

How does she hide that much dirty underwear?

 

[fast-tl]

I would tell her that you know she has been lying about the length of the affair and what sort of affair it was, and if she doesn't tell you the whole truth you are leaving.
Don't tell her how much you know or how you found out.
If she carries on lying and denying then you could ask her to take a lie detector test.

You don’t have to prove to her how you know what you know you just need to give her the opportunity if you choose to to reveal everything. You already will know if she’s being truthful with you which I would not count on. I don’t know what else you hope to get out of a relationship with this woman who has not respected you or cared for you enough to let you be in her heart. You say that you guys are more in love than ever before, but based on what? She would be happy to go to the grave without you, knowing who she truly is. And who she truly is is the woman who’s done all these things in secret That are hurtful to you

 

[fast-tl]

I am curious as to how you know that. How do you know that you and your wife are close?

How are they close without truth? That’s like saying me and Tom Cruz are best friends outside the fact that I don’t really know him.

 

[Theburna]

I've been in a long-term relationship with my wife for about 20 years, with kids. About 2 years ago, out of the blue, I discovered my wife has been having an affair: I literally drove past her while headed home - she was walking down the street on her cell phone, I slowed down and offered to drive her home, she waved me off as she was happy to walk, and as I began driving away, my car picked up her call on bluetooth - with my daughter next to me. The only thing we both heard was a man saying "I love you so much honey".

I had no warning signs - no idea she was carrying on. I confronted her outside after sending my daughter into the house. She did two things right at this point: she admitted it right away, told me who it was, and she also swore to me that she wanted to be with me, that the affair was a mistake. She insisted it was an emotional affair. She ended it the next morning with the man.

The man - we'll call him *- was an "old friend" that I had never met. She had mentioned him over the years, and every once in a while they talked on the phone or even met up for dinner or lunch. I asked her about * when we were first together, as we were learning about each other's past, and she assured me back then that he was just a dear friend. He did not live in the same city, so contact with him was sportatic at best over the years that followed. In terms of the affair, she assured me the two of them started as a result of leaning on him for emotional support when her father died (4 months earlier). She also informed me that the trip she had recently taken to Jamaica to have some "time to herself and grieve" - was not a solo trip: he joined her after a couple of days of being there, but in a separate room. She lied about that when I first realized she was having an affair when she went on that trip, but she did admit it during our first counselling session.

My wife had been married before we got together 20 years ago, and we got together not long after her marriage ended. I too had been married, and was in the process of ending it at that time.

Upon learning of this affair, my wife and I did intensive couples counselling and as a result, are more in love than we probably ever have been. We addressed a lot of issues (that should have been addressed years before had she agreed to go sooner - a request I frequently made and was rebuffed, but that's another matter). I chose to work on us instead of leave, and I'm glad I did.

A few months ago - in what turned out to be our last couples therapy session -I brought up the fact that she was curiously preventing me from accessing our phone bill account - it has our home phone/internet etc, as well as her cell phone connected to it (my cell phone is billed separately). I figured in counselling she would realize she had no reason not to give me access (I needed access for financial/tax reasons). Instead she adamantly refused to give me access. She got so upset she left the session early.

At that point I knew something was up, so I started digging. I found text messages on her phone, and then I found (sadly graphic) old photographs. Lo and behold, these discoveries proved that (a) the affair she had with ** started months earlier that she admitted to me (although it was likely not physical, given he didn't live in the area) and (b) this was NOT her first affair with **. The photographs proved that she was cheating on her ex-husband with him as well, before she and I were together. (Why did she keep the photos!!!!) **** was also married with kids, and I guess he would not leave his wife, although she did leave her husband (no kids from that marriage). Literally I am surely only with her because he ended it at the time. Fast forward to 2022: his wife died a year before her father died (2023), which is what prompted him to reach out to my wife, after (what I belive was) many years of silence between the two of them.

So, I have this info, and I have not yet confronted my wife (it's been almost 3 months since my discovery). We had stopped counselling because I was laid off work right at the time of that last terrible session. I wanted to talk to her with our couples counsellor, as I don't trust how she will react - she will probably freak out at my digging through her text messages (I knew her password) then finding the photos in her office (which were from her first affair with him exclusively).

I need her to come clean, as I can't live with the lie. I have every reason to believe she is truly finished with ****, and has been since I found about them 2 years ago. She lately tells me she has never been happier with me, and I feel the same way, and yet I know her secrets and they eat away at me.

I have ben debating how much to admit to her I know: I want her to come clean - completely. If I tell her I know she wasn't honest about her relationship, she'll want to know what I know, and presumably build a (limited) narrative around what I tell her. I want her to come clean about everything: the ancient affair on her ex, as well as the timelines for the affair she had on me. I also don't believe her when she insisted that on the recent affair it was stricly an emotional affair: they were having sex in their old affair, and I'm pretty sure they must have been having sex in Jamaica.

My debate: do I admit that I read her text messages and saw photographs when I confront her? Maybe just admit to the photographs? My reason for snooping, after all, was because I knew something was amiss when she refused me access to the phone bill account (which would have proven communication between them). I am nervous as hell to bring this up. She has agreed to a couples counselling session in a couple of weeks to talk about what is bothering me.

Sorry for the long story. Interested in peoples thoughts on that last paragraph.

So she has lied, trickle truthed, and monkey branched. Prepare for DARVO (look it up on Google) next. RUN

 

[Coleencd]

I've been in a long-term relationship with my wife for about 20 years, with kids. About 2 years ago, out of the blue, I discovered my wife has been having an affair: I literally drove past her while headed home - she was walking down the street on her cell phone, I slowed down and offered to drive her home, she waved me off as she was happy to walk, and as I began driving away, my car picked up her call on bluetooth - with my daughter next to me. The only thing we both heard was a man saying "I love you so much honey".

I had no warning signs - no idea she was carrying on. I confronted her outside after sending my daughter into the house. She did two things right at this point: she admitted it right away, told me who it was, and she also swore to me that she wanted to be with me, that the affair was a mistake. She insisted it was an emotional affair. She ended it the next morning with the man.

The man - we'll call him *- was an "old friend" that I had never met. She had mentioned him over the years, and every once in a while they talked on the phone or even met up for dinner or lunch. I asked her about * when we were first together, as we were learning about each other's past, and she assured me back then that he was just a dear friend. He did not live in the same city, so contact with him was sportatic at best over the years that followed. In terms of the affair, she assured me the two of them started as a result of leaning on him for emotional support when her father died (4 months earlier). She also informed me that the trip she had recently taken to Jamaica to have some "time to herself and grieve" - was not a solo trip: he joined her after a couple of days of being there, but in a separate room. She lied about that when I first realized she was having an affair when she went on that trip, but she did admit it during our first counselling session.

My wife had been married before we got together 20 years ago, and we got together not long after her marriage ended. I too had been married, and was in the process of ending it at that time.

Upon learning of this affair, my wife and I did intensive couples counselling and as a result, are more in love than we probably ever have been. We addressed a lot of issues (that should have been addressed years before had she agreed to go sooner - a request I frequently made and was rebuffed, but that's another matter). I chose to work on us instead of leave, and I'm glad I did.

A few months ago - in what turned out to be our last couples therapy session -I brought up the fact that she was curiously preventing me from accessing our phone bill account - it has our home phone/internet etc, as well as her cell phone connected to it (my cell phone is billed separately). I figured in counselling she would realize she had no reason not to give me access (I needed access for financial/tax reasons). Instead she adamantly refused to give me access. She got so upset she left the session early.

At that point I knew something was up, so I started digging. I found text messages on her phone, and then I found (sadly graphic) old photographs. Lo and behold, these discoveries proved that (a) the affair she had with ** started months earlier that she admitted to me (although it was likely not physical, given he didn't live in the area) and (b) this was NOT her first affair with **. The photographs proved that she was cheating on her ex-husband with him as well, before she and I were together. (Why did she keep the photos!!!!) **** was also married with kids, and I guess he would not leave his wife, although she did leave her husband (no kids from that marriage). Literally I am surely only with her because he ended it at the time. Fast forward to 2022: his wife died a year before her father died (2023), which is what prompted him to reach out to my wife, after (what I belive was) many years of silence between the two of them.

So, I have this info, and I have not yet confronted my wife (it's been almost 3 months since my discovery). We had stopped counselling because I was laid off work right at the time of that last terrible session. I wanted to talk to her with our couples counsellor, as I don't trust how she will react - she will probably freak out at my digging through her text messages (I knew her password) then finding the photos in her office (which were from her first affair with him exclusively).

I need her to come clean, as I can't live with the lie. I have every reason to believe she is truly finished with ****, and has been since I found about them 2 years ago. She lately tells me she has never been happier with me, and I feel the same way, and yet I know her secrets and they eat away at me.

I have ben debating how much to admit to her I know: I want her to come clean - completely. If I tell her I know she wasn't honest about her relationship, she'll want to know what I know, and presumably build a (limited) narrative around what I tell her. I want her to come clean about everything: the ancient affair on her ex, as well as the timelines for the affair she had on me. I also don't believe her when she insisted that on the recent affair it was stricly an emotional affair: they were having sex in their old affair, and I'm pretty sure they must have been having sex in Jamaica.

My debate: do I admit that I read her text messages and saw photographs when I confront her? Maybe just admit to the photographs? My reason for snooping, after all, was because I knew something was amiss when she refused me access to the phone bill account (which would have proven communication between them). I am nervous as hell to bring this up. She has agreed to a couples counselling session in a couple of weeks to talk about what is bothering me.

Sorry for the long story. Interested in peoples thoughts on that last paragraph.

Why be nervous about her cheating you have gave her many chances to come clean and be up front with you. It is obvious she feels more for this man than she did about her first husband or about you as she carried on the affair while married to both of you. It is time to bite the bullet and confront her you do not have to give away all the details of how you know. Just be firm and blunt tell her you know about the affair that you are pissed off(excuse the language) and demand the truth and tell her you know about it all but want to hear her side. If she still denies this state that you are going to ask him personally at his home and watch her reaction. But you must be prepared that she is not going to give him up no matter what you say. It’s a bit like Charles and Diana you mix Camilla into the bargain he could not give Camilla up and when you see both Camilla and Diana i know who I would rather have but Charles picked Camilla. She is never going to stop seeing him please resign yourself to that fact. Sorry to be blunt but your wife will never change.

 

[Openminded]

My husband had a decades-long “friendship“ with another woman (it was much more but he refused to admit anything I couldn’t prove) off and on after we were married. I found out early on and after that he was very careful. I never got the truth of that because he — like most cheaters — wanted to remain married and he continued to lie. You take a huge risk when you believe a cheater. I trusted him to do as he promised after I found out and I got burned because that relationship was too important to him to give up. Many — probably most — people who reconcile never know the real story.

 

[Evinrude58]

I know of a good man that had two really good boys that are now young men. Both responsible and good dudes. Their mom always posted things on FB almost daily like they were the perfect family and she was the best mom. Come to find out, she was screwing the married neighbor across the street for Likely the past twenty years. He caught them slapping nasties in the woods while he was out hunting. He STAYED with her. I would think there’s not a day that goes by that he doesn’t think about how his wife liked banging another dude so much that she ate her cake for years while pretending to be a loving, loyal wife.

There is no freaking way i’d accept that. He lives in a small town and everyone knows.

I suppose he is as different from me as the OP is. I just feel that finding another woman to spend life with that actually has me as her number one, is more important than Avoiding the pain of divorce. It hurt a lot. Now I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. My new wife is a better wife on every aspect, and the most loving partner I’ve ever had. I advise you to get out, OP. I suspect you’ve been conditioned into believing that how your wife has treated you for years, is how marriage is supposed to be. I beat myself up regularly for accepting the crap my ex once gave me for all those years. I should have never married her. I am glad, however, that I corrected the situation. You should as well. She is not the only woman you can find, nor be happy with. I guarantee you there is someone out there that you’d love more than your wife, and would make you much happier. Don’t short yourself. You only have one life.

 

[QuietRiot]

I know of a good man that had two really good boys that are now young men. Both responsible and good dudes. Their mom always posted things on FB almost daily like they were the perfect family and she was the best mom. Come to find out, she was screwing the married neighbor across the street for Likely the past twenty years. He caught them slapping nasties in the woods while he was out hunting. He STAYED with her. I would think there’s not a day that goes by that he doesn’t think about how his wife liked banging another dude so much that she ate her cake for years while pretending to be a loving, loyal wife.

There is no freaking way i’d accept that. He lives in a small town and everyone knows.

I suppose he is as different from me as the OP is. I just feel that finding another woman to spend life with that actually has me as her number one, is more important than Avoiding the pain of divorce. It hurt a lot. Now I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. My new wife is a better wife on every aspect, and the most loving partner I’ve ever had. I advise you to get out, OP. I suspect you’ve been conditioned into believing that how your wife has treated you for years, is how marriage is supposed to be. I beat myself up regularly for accepting the crap my ex once gave me for all those years. I should have never married her. I am glad, however, that I corrected the situation. You should as well. She is not the only woman you can find, nor be happy with. I guarantee you there is someone out there that you’d love more than your wife, and would make you much happier. Don’t short yourself. You only have one life.

Ohhhh, the FB perfect couples are the ones that seem to have the biggest issues!


And just to add, even if there was 100% certainty I’d never find another sig other for all time… I’d still choose that over sharing my life with a betraying, cheating, lying sack 11 times out of 10. You don’t really see the peace it brings until you’re completely done with them.