GOOD TO SEE YA BACK helping RTBP.

ONE THING WHETHER OR NOT YOU GO 007 on her or not. I traveled extensively 2010 2011 building a facility. Across the street was a place where the local white trash girls from that facility congregated after work. It never even crossed my mind to go there and hang in a bar with women.

SHE IS NEVER NEVER NEVER (Nor are you) to have an opposite sex person in your hotel room. EVER! This story prolly hits painfully close to home for RTBP.

Also a warning. If you go RTBPs route. Have a plan to be able to record what you hear AND do it without having to listen yourself. Again I can not say this enough. Actually hearing the woman you love giving herself to another man will do damage 10 times worse than just knowing she is cheating. It will crush your soul.

edit: This is the one case where you are lucky your wife does not sleep starkers. Had she said she wears nothing...

 

I usually stay away from threads like this now but yeah it does hit pretty close. Away, drunk, interacting with some d-bag, yup. Either this or a PI in whatever city, IMO best way to monitor on a business trip or a potential workplace A.

Also Philly if you do go this route block any text apps. Words with friends, scrabble, any free text apps.

 

She is content with her life as it is, obligatory sex with you now and then, some dream mini holiday's with him a couple of times a year.

You need to look for their means of communication. And have a PI investigating at least the second trip from now on.

 

SLL you are also reading this one as possibly a decoy be good girl trip with the next one the real test?

 

I would still do SOME kind of monitoring OP.

 

Looking into the link that was posted last night re: iPhone monitoring. Also still have iMessages available, if she leaves her iPad at home. I am able to turn them off and on without detection, as long as I'm careful. Looking into the monitoring in case she brings her iPad with her this time. In the past she has left it at home and doesn't bring it on work trips. (Which always told me until that night nothing happened - she wouldn't carelessly leave her iPad home with messages on it if she was consciously doing something bad)

She will be watched when she is away for work. Probably a good idea to watch her the next time around as well. Especially since she knows this is still eating at me she may behave this time.

Someone asked why he would be there. He is not affiliated with the company any longer and will not be at the meeting. Company HQ are in this city. However he still lives in/near the city the meetings are in.

 

Someone asked why he would be there. He is not affiliated with the company any longer and will not be at the meeting. Company HQ are in this city. However he still lives in/near the city the meetings are in.

Let me ask this again: Would you consider going to the city where the meeting is and watch what is going on, first hand, without her knowledge?

What about contacting this guy and letting him know that you are on to what he is up to?

 

the problem is the Kurts probe and probe and probe and probe....

 

That's why passive or cordial resistance on her part is no good. She needs to smack him away hard and for good. None of this "letting him down gently" crap.

 

There is no way for me to watch her in closed door corporate meetings. As far as following her in the hotel, restaurants and bars, I think she would recognize me, unless I put on sunglasses and a mustache. She would know what I was up to anyway, I don't have work trip planned myself and would need to get a 48 hour babysitter.

There has been no contact since mid November that I have seen - work and all personal emails, texts, phone calls, there are no text apps or game apps on her phone, VAR set up in her car. No burner that I can find - searched all work bags, car, all coat pockets, bedroom, everywhere. Unless she keeps a burner in the office there has been no contact. She's back to work today after two weeks vacation. Anyway, the next whiff of contact by him I am going scorched earth.

 

Philly,
I think you've put "de fear of de lord" in her by getting so upset over those texts, by obviously not getting over it, and demanding no contact OR ELSE! I think she knows how serious you are about this and I don't think this young lady is going to do anything to jeopardize her little family or her relationship with you. Actually, this Kurt reminds me of Howard Wolowitz on The Big Bang Theory, a rather pitiful cvckhound whose pathetic antics are always being shot down by the women he tries to bed.

 

Go with the PI. Just make sure she cannot see that you spent the money.

Posted via Topify using iPhone/iPad

 

Philly: You may have answered it already, but is her cell phone on your personal family account or is it on the company's?

If it's on yours, you could certainly trace phone call/text usage online with your provider. And you could also place some virtually undetectable software on there that could accurately trace phone calls/texts.

But if it's a company issued device, then you're pretty much SOL! Other than that, you may have to resort to the PI route, which might end up being a worthwhile investment in your own personal peace of mind!

 

Both of our phones are in her name on her verizon account. But I've always had access to the account because I can expense a portion of the bill for work. so yes I can see all of her calls and texts on there. Apple iMessages however do not show up on the bill and this is what I need to see. Kurt is also an iPhone user. I still get them just not as conveniently as looking up the verizon account.

For the uninitiated, iMessages are Apples version of text messages that can be sent from iPhone, iPad, and iPod users to each other. They are sent exactly the same as texts, however since they are Apple to Apple they don't count against your text message limit, but also don't show up on a bill either.

 

Google+ doesn't show up on the bill either.

 

PI when she goes.

Posted via Topify using iPhone/iPad

 

You are a lucky man. Most guys come here when its too late.

Hopefully you are not.

 

I would take a totally different approach. From what I read of your entire post, this is not an affair, this is not your wife having feelings for this man. I sincerely doubt they had sex becuase why would Kurt need to be hitting on her if he already got the prize? It is your wife allowing a flirtation to go too far on one particular night. One night does not make a lifetime, does not define a person. You should judge your wife on the entirety of her person not one specific night. Is she a cheater, or is she just a wife who allowed a fun flirtation to go too far? YOU have to decide what she is. If she is a cheater, then you should not remain married to her.

Can your wife cheat? YES! Anyone's wife can cheat. And your wife is a prime candidate. Why? She works, has kids, and you have an unfulfilling sex life. These are flags that tell you WATCH OUT.

BUT.... You dodged a bullet. But it's crucial that you set things up in your marriage where a fun, drunken, flirtatious night occurs between the 2 of you, and not her and someone else. All the exuses about babysitters, too tired, too stressed out, house is too messy, lack of money have to be set aside. You the husband must create the fun and fulfiling and sexual environment within your marriage or yes, sadly your marriage is at risk.

What this event should do is wake you up to is the fact that your wife COULD cheat. Most guys who's wives cheated on them think "she would never cheat". You are ahead of the game. Why is that important? Becuase you realize the importance of the agendas that you will need to drive within your marriage. So instead of "we don't have a babysitter", it's your knowledge and understanding that your marriage will be destroyed if you don't spend time having fun as a couple. It's that important.

My view is that you should not trust your wife. But, there is no reason to constantly tell her you don't trust her or require her to do different things. The best recipe against cheating is to create a good, fun, fuflilling, happy, exciting, sexual environment in your marriage. Do this as a "positive" excersize (ie. let's build a great marriage... are you in?) as opposed to a "negative" excersize (I need to see your cell phone, I don't trust you).... That storm could of negativity is cancer to your marriage.

So you turn the negativity into a positive. Not about "Her" but about "We". About the "greater good".... So for example, if it comes up about what she did, here is where I would lead the conversation... "Wife, it's true I was shocked buy reading those texts... I see you go out with a guy get drunk, and then when he hits on you rather than shut it down, you more or less entertained it. But, it really woke me up. I realize that we need to have more fun, do more things togeher and really focus on being boyfriend and girlfriend once in a while."

 

OP:
this post has a lot of good thoughts in it. It's a good approach to take with your wife. however I wouls add to this sentiment something like "BTW if you were ever to cheat on me I woukldn't be able to stay married to you. we'd be finished. That's why mainitaining good boundaries with other people is so important. by good boundaries I mean.......(examples)"

I also have a question, OP. Any way you could think of a reason to accompany her to Cleveland? i.e. above board.
You know, explain to her how much fun you two could have on Wednesday and Thursday night, suggest staying Friday and Saturday night too, how great it will be to get away just the two of you. How visiting Cleveland in February will be a perfect mini-vacation for the two of you ( :rofl: i.e. think of something here, maybe..... windsailing on Lake Erie in sub-zero weather, or remind her how much you like the color gray, or......I don't know - Cleveland Cavaliers???)

 

I appreciate the thought nuclear. I think if I suggested that she would see through it as me wanting to keep an eye on her. We also have limited babysitting opportunities, especially mid week for multi-nights. We have no family within 150 miles of where we live. So we rely on trusted neighborhood people, but overnight is a tall order.

We do have two weekend getaways now planned in the next few months, which is more than we've done in the 5 years since kid #1 was born. Now that the holidays are over we are also resolving to go out at least 2-3 times a month for dinner, movies, drinks, whatever.

 

I appreciate the thought nuclear. I think if I suggested that she would see through it as me wanting to keep an eye on her. We also have limited babysitting opportunities, especially mid week for multi-nights. We have no family within 150 miles of where we live. So we rely on trusted neighborhood people, but overnight is a tall order.

We do have two weekend getaways now planned in the next few months, which is more than we've done in the 5 years since kid #1 was born. Now that the holidays are over we are also resolving to go out at least 2-3 times a month for dinner, movies, drinks, whatever.

What you really need is to see her set and enforce boundaries, and see this for yourself (not just take her word). If she does this convincingly, then maybe you can take your eye off her.

 

I think the spy app on the phone would be best if you can swing that.

 

You should definitely try get it on her phone if you can do it secretly, but it won't help if she has a burner phone.

I think the PI is good for this trip, at least he'll know if they meet. I don't expect her to do anything this time since she knows it's an issue and she told OM she'd see him in Feb. I expect she'll lie low until then.

You might want to see if the PI can log any time he sees her using her phone so you can compare it with her text/call/data log on the bill.

 

Philly,

Why do you care if she knows you don't trust her? Does she deserve your trust? Why do you care if she knows you are monitoring her? Does she deserve that amount of freedom? If I were in your position I would tell her you're going with her this time and every time she goes on these trips. When she says "why don't you trust me" just say "because you have proven to be untrustworthy."

 

Exactly.

" well honey its because you told him SAVE THE DATE! For your Feb trip so you could go out on another date with him. You know, like the 5 hour date, including hand holding, you went with him on last time you were there. Little things like that"

OP I think you should be a lot less concerned on what she might or might not resent you saying to her or suggest to her. She enjoyed flirting with and hanging with this guy. I really think you should not accept any shy*t from her whatsoever. Tell her you have reason not to trust her. If she protests tell her you might not mind finding a female drinking buddy yourself.

Her going back to Cleveland is not a good situation IMO. you may very well catch her doing something but you won't be able to prevent it. You should at least be clear with her on what happens if she cheats, and on what happens if she goes on another date with the guy. Or any other guy......

 

I think treating her like a untrustworthy cheater is a huge mistake.

What you have to do is offer her choices when dealing with her, and judge the state of your marriage and the quality of your wife based on the choices she makes. And let her know that you are judging her worthiness by her choices and decisions.

And these conversations shoud be organic, inserted by you as the topics naturally come up and not forced.

Example. "Wife, you can decide that I am a jerk becuase I don't trust you. Or you can decide that for the sake of my husband and my marriage I should look at things from his perspective. I can't decide for you what to do. You have to look into your heart and decide what is right".

 

I think treating her like a untrustworthy cheater is a huge mistake.

It might be a mistake to treat her as a cheater, but she's proven herself untrustworthy.

 

Thanks all. If anything new pops up between now and early Feb I will report back. I'm sure as that trip approaches I will be on edge to say the least. But in the meantime I will push on. Happy new year to all.

 

There's no reason for a married woman to be going out alone with a member of the opposite sex. It's not appropriate and more often then not it leads to problems. I doubt your wife would be cool with you going out of town and meeting up with a female for a drink.

 

Hey Philly---as to her buddy attending the meetings---probably not---but I am willing to bet he shows up at the hotel where they will stay/the places they go to drink---HE WORKED WITH AND KNOWS THESE PEOPLE,-----he probably wants to renew old aquaintances-------this is something you can never prevent from happening

what you could do---is just tell your wife you and your child are coming along for the ride-----and if she is trying to make sure this mge is gonna make it----SHE WILL NOT SAY ONE WORD AGST YOU COMING ALONG------if she complains about lack of trust---tell her based on the past----she is responsible for THAT LACK OF TRUST ON YOUR PART---and bottom line---you are just fighting for your mge

 

Look, take this for what you will.

OP you have to act more like Kurt. He wined and dined her, flirted with her, pursued her. You have to introduce that dynamic into your marriage where you are the pursuer. Its the art of seduction and yes it applies to wives.

 

I'm curious how that works. I could see it working for a wife who isn't looking elsewhere for attention. What about someone who is? The problem is that he isn't Kurt. He could do the same exact thing Kurt does or says and it wouldn't have the same impact.

 

Helpful as always, theroad, helpful as always. Do me a big favor. Refrain from posting on here. I'm looking for help with my situation, not ambiguously vague glib remarks. Thanks.

 

Thank Hicks and I have definitely viewed this whole episode as a wake up call.

I know there was nothing going on before the night of texts. Nothing even happened that night, until they parted ways and the late night texting began. And they are mostly one-sided. Him pursuing her, her not deflecting.

We were definitely stuck in the doldrums. We never went out alone. Pick up the kids. Feed the kids. Bathe the kids. Get the kids to bed. Go to bed. Wash, rinse, repeat. I was and am ready willing and able in the bedroom at the drop of a hat, and asked for it daily. Usually shot down due to her being tired, or unhappy with her weight.

I work from home so I try to keep up with the daily household chores. Been cooking more. Have two weekend getaways planned for the two of us. Right around the time this issue happened we also had an issue with daycare, which led us to find a great older woman in the neighborhood that is willing to babysit for us. So we can go out more.

We've had in depth discussions over the past several weeks that we need to make time for each other, both in and out of the bedroom, and so far we have. And she has been remorseful over the texting. But she is also POed that I don't trust her. I don't think something is going to happen when she goes away. But Yes, I just don't trust that something won't happen either. I need to make sure.

 

The more time you can spend alone with each other the better. The tendency for most couples is to put the children first and I get that. We did the same thing. Thing is, you were a couple before the kids, you'll be a couple after the kids are gone. You have to be able to relate to and love one another because conceivably, you two will be all you two have one day.

Also talk to her. Having deep, emotional conversations with her will do a lot to spur her libido (well, it worked with my wife) and it will help her understand you and your motives better. If she thinks you are just being controlling she will look at is as you mistrusting her. If she thinks you are jealously guarding someone very precious to you, she may look at it differently. Have those deep talks and try to help her understand.

I did say try.

 

I really feel for Phillyguy because in this situation, I'm sure he feels totally impotent, not sexually, but in the fact that when his wife goes on her trip, he will be left at home in constant worry about what she might be doing and with who and there's nothing he can do about it! I still don't know why he doesn't contact POS Kurt and warn him off. Tell him that he's read the texts and knows what he is trying to do with his wife, and tell him he has told her there is to be NO contact under any circumstances. I only pray that she takes these concerns to heart and doesn't do something stupid thinking, as she has said, that she can "handle him." My heart goes out to him for what he must be going through.