This is unusual for me. Your sweetie is NOT my wife, so why am I sitting here with a lump in my gut? ! God, I hope she doesn't mess up on her trip! I think a lot of us here have taken quite a shine to you, Philly, and we're upset that YOU'RE upset. Hang in there and keep good thoughts.

 

Thanks Thummper, I think things are going to work out. I'm hoping this incident scared her as much as me. I've never been known for my patience and coupled with a bit of OCD it's all been driving me nuts.

There's a lot of good people on this site, many with situations much more horrible than mine. My story seems much more tame than most, so I appreciate everyone's support.

 

Her response to defend him after everything is troubling.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

Agreed. Told her I didn't want to hear it. And again stressed there is to be ZERO contact.

 

Have you guys read "Not just friends" yet?

I agree her defending him is troubling. Means she didn't think the boundary crossing he did was over the line...b/c he was "drunk"...

Hopefully she behaves herself and gives you transparency.

 

I hope she gives me transparency as well, but I will also be creating my own transparency...

 

Trust is something that is earned. You need to stick to the old Ronald Reagan theory, "trust but verify". Transparency is what allows you to gain trust in her, blind trust is a fools game.

 

Ugh why did my bp jump 10 points when i read another trip. Cause we have gijeffro thread active. Short version. Players wait and probe and probe and probe and probe.

 

And I explained to her how he is a predator, after one thing only. She agreed not to contact him, and report any contact he initiates. She still is upset about my trust issues. She says she would be able to handle him no matter what, so me forbidding her is me not trusting her. I said trust needs to be re-earned. So yes I have issues right now.

Luckily Hall and Oates will be chaperoning.

 

Someone elsewhere on TAM put it well: You do not have to prove your trust, but she (in view of the texting) has to prove her trustworthiness. To be fair to her, it sounds like she's doing a pretty good job. But the acid test still lies ahead.

 

Dear Phil, your wife is upset that you dont trust her and rightly so.. There has to be trust in the marriage. You have to trust your wife, that she is not stepping outside .. but how would you ..do that when on the last trip she was flirting with this guy and you caught it. Its ina pporpriate for a married woman. She accepts it was a mistake and slip up. So ofc she is prone to slip ups and mistakes. what if she does something more stupid and commits a greater mistake ? There is always the possiblity ...
So point is ... the guy is fishing for more, he is out to get her .. and saw that she is interested (a little at least..) in their last conversation. He would try more. Your wife slipped a little (made a bad decision), so she is prone to doing it again. or doing it if this was not caught.
Your wife needs to understand this, and instead of blaming you for not trusting her , apologise for her slip-up and make sure she can earn your trust. Open all communications to you and you to her ..
There are no secrets in a marriage !

 

Like it or not, and even with spying---you have a problem

You need to KILL the Cleveland trip----she may not like it, and you may look bad for doing so---but what is peace of mind worth to you----I promise you, you have already lost your carefree mindset---and whether you like it or not---your sub--conscious, is gonna be up and working on you from the minute she leaves---and from that point on---for much of your future life

You already know, they have a rendezvous planned---no matter what she says about denying contact with him----she keeps fighting you on the matter


She defends him, she fights you on your lack of trust, where she herself should admit accountability, and be remorseful, even as to causing you to lose trust

Bottom line----she is going to Cleveland---and YOU WILL NOT KNOW WHAT IS REALLY ACTUALLY GOING ON---and you will never know----do you think you are gonna slide thru not knowing-----there is no way in he*l your sub--conscious is gonna let this slide!!!!!

It boils down to this---if she goes---your Mge is in deep water---no matter what you are doing now----all the work you are putting in---if she goes, it is down the drain----she can check in all the time--but even while checking in---he could be right there in the room with her

She seems to be somewhat of a heavy drinker---you better believe out there on her own, she will drink----he will find her---you better believe that also---and they WILL HOOK-UP

You may want to ignore my post---but you better believe what I say----has a very high % of being accurate-------I don't care what you do, or how you do it---DO NOT ALLOW HER TO GO TO CLEVELAND-----

Boils down to what is more important---your mge, or her job??
---your family and kids, well being and future, or her job??----she has already proven she cannot be trusted, ---she flirts and breaks boundaries--------what do you think is gonna happen in feb, in Cleveland when she has a few to many, and he finds her----or do you intend to tell her she can't drink, and she is to stay locked up in her hotel room----EVERY POST YOU HAVE WRITTEN WHERE YOUR WIFE HAS GONE OUT---SHE HAS GOTTEN SH*T FACED----WHAT IS GONNA STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING IN CLEVELAND---you telling her not to-------DO NOT LET HER GO----have her call in sick, you can slide this as much as you want--if you do---as I said before---your mge is gonna take one very HARD HIT!!!!!!

 

Bottom line----she is going to Cleveland---and YOU WILL NOT KNOW WHAT IS REALLY ACTUALLY GOING ON---and you will never know----do you think you are gonna slide thru not knowing-----there is no way in he*l your sub--conscious is gonna let this slide!!!!!

It seems you missed the hall and oats reference. Maybe this will help.

 

I saw the P I reference--------so what---if they catch her doing something out of line---how does that help the mge------if she gets caught doing something out of line---how does that help the kids from having to be in split homes, as in D.--------

One way to MAKE SURE---nothing goes on----SHE DOES NOT GO

 

I appreciate the perspective but forbidding her from going away for work isn't feasible. I'm not going into details of her job here, but she provides training to large groups of coworkers. If I forbid her from going I'm essentially asking her to throw her career away and she would resent me for that.

If a job change down the road is merited, so be it. Right now I have her word she isn't going to see him. Ball is in her court. She will behave or I'm out. Blowing up my family's home and finances before then isn't wise either.

 

And you believe this?

Well the check is in the mail, and when a man says to a woman that he will not.....

Want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn?

 

You're a good man for giving her a chance to prove to you that she merits your trust, Philly. Knowing what's at stake, and most likely being a pretty smart lady (to get to the position she holds) I think she'll be VERY careful to do the right thing. She may be tempted to contact Kurt, since they've been friends for some time, but I firmly believe she will honor your request for NC. I'm pulling for you two.

 

Unfortunately knowing would cost 500 a night.

How long is the conference? How often are they?

 

Basically 2 nights. Day and a half of meetings, no free night at the end this time around luckily. She can't drink the night before meetings, and flies home right after the meeting ends. Last time she didn't fly out til the next morning,,so she had a free night.

She has to go out there 2-3 times a year. I see what you are saying, what about the next time? I will see how we do in February, and evaluate for next time as the months go along. Sucky way to have to live.

 

Sucky for both of you.

I want to warn you about one thing. If she is innocent, and I think that she is, you do not want to drive her away with constantly checking on her or acting paranoid in any way. In the end if your marriage is to continue, you have to trust her. If this trip works out OK for you, drop the entire thing before it gets out of hand and we get a new thread from you wondering why she's leaving you.

I'm serious. Wives are not property. If the tables were turned and you were innocent, you'd not be happy to be treated this way.

 

I skimmed this, but her defending him worries me. It means, minimum, she doesn't really understand that he wants to bang her. But that seems improbable to me. So she's lying about that?

You have to trust her on this trip. It seems there is no choice. But verify, if possible.

 

Can't verify because his WW has blocked him.

 

Trust but verify... My new motto.

 

Right now I have to believe her. I've done 8 weeks of due diligence. Found nothing. Do you have any suggestions for finding out the truth, one way or the other. That I haven't already done? I will be checking up on her out there.

Don't worry, if it turns out something is going on, I will be sure to report it here, so you can get your I-told-you-so's in. Rest assured. Thanks for the helpful advice.

 

Good luck!

 

So 1 hotel night?
What are the hours of the conference? Ie 1 hotel night after meetings ending at say 6 pm gives a rather narrow window.

Anyone else reading this trip as a cooldown phase with the next one the real one?

 

Anyone else reading this trip as a cooldown phase with the next one the real one?

Possible. Will need to remain vigilant...

 

What are the hours? Night in hotel is one? Ie one evening out? What goes on that evening?

 

Basically flies in Wednesday afternoon. Meeting starts 8:00am Thursday morning... Meeting all day... Banquet/reception at hotel for dinner for group. Meetings again Friday morning til noon. flies home Friday afternoon.

She can't be sh!tfaced for Meetings so she can't drink a lot. Areas of concern will be wed and thurs night. Hasn't made flight yet so not sure exact flight times.

 

PG13- maybe I missed it. How do you know the meeting agenda? Di she tell you?

The part that troubles me is that she doesn't seem to recognize how serious this is. Either she is naiive, or she's hiding something.

 

PhillyGuy, is this OM going to be at the conference at all?

 

Her manager "Kurt" is 41, based in Cleveland. She has worked for him for 2-3 years. She has to go out there a few times per year, he comes out our way a few times a year. They've developed a friendship which didn't bother me. She has gone out with him and his girlfriend when she is in Cleveland in the past, seemed innocent. I believe he is divorced, I know he at least has a kid. In October the bank combined some positions and he lost his job. I know it bothered her she was really stressed with "getting to know a new boss now when she had a good relationship with Kurt"

Having just lost his job, why would Kurt be a principal at the forthcoming meeting in Cleveland?

On November 13-14 she was out in Cleveland with her team to meet the new boss. She had told me she was going to meet Kurt out on the night of 11/14. She checked in with me a few times throughout the night both phone and texts.

Around 11:30 pm her iPad starts pinging. She didn't bring it with her, so the kids can play with it. I got up to shut the sound off, when I saw this exchange (edited for spelling only) the convo seems a bit jumbled - May be they were slow to respond to each other or that is how it came through on the iPad.

Anna: 11:36pm So you still owe me dinner next time!!! (They headed out around 5:00 but never ate- only bars)
Kurt: Agreed. and a drink. Or two.
Anna: Lol... Good on drinks
Kurt: Not yet, but close. You are good AP look me up when you in Clev (AP is a nickname I had for her that apparently he does too)
Kurt: had fun tonight. Hope you did too. Sorry for the awful pizza.
Anna: So Feb 6-7 I am back... save the date!
Anna: I had fun too
Kurt: I will... And dinner will be planned much better
Anna:
Kurt: drinks at "xxxx bar" maybe skip
Kurt: outside the lines- you are good- you will do well.
Kurt: next time you and I just hang.
Anna: outside the lines??
Kurt: of work. Of political correctness. Where I can tell you you are pretty and it is ok.
Anna: it was just you and I? (She is questioning because they were alone 5-10' then at 10 his girlfriend came out to drive him home, it was the three of them 10-11)
Kurt: yes - until you got hammered... Or until I did.
Anna: lol you did
Kurt: I got the delicious pizza for us. (Sarcasm - the pizza was terrible)
Anna: ok going to bed now
Kurt: next time we eat in your room. Easier to trust room service.
Kurt: Later AP
Anna:
Anna: don't forget me because you are gone now!

Why would Anna be giving someone other than her husband the little "smiley-faces" and "winks; and why would she be wanting to confirm yet another meeting when she is back in town? Why would she be encouraging future contact with him?


Kurt: you're cute. Have a good night sweetie. Sorry I missed on dinner. Order at hotel. Next time in town let me know.
Kurt: I will do the same. I have some friends by you now. In "your town"
Anna: already in bed... No dinner tonight.
Kurt: And that is somehow hot. The dinner part my bad. But the bed part...
Kurt: it is early now that I see it. What do you sleep in?

What damn business is it of Kurt's as to what your wife chooses to sleep in?


Anna: seriously you are in the car with "girlfriend"
Kurt: Umm... I am home. I live 15 minutes away. You should come hang. I will cook dinner. (I do not know if he lives with girlfriend)
Anna: so it is "Albany College" pajama pants. Now that is TMI

And what damn business does Anna have in even answering that question of his?

Kurt: that is cute... And I liked holding your hand. Different, now but had fun. Hope you did too. I want to see.
Anna: to see?
Kurt: Albany College pants

And now, Kurt is boldly probing further. Basically from the standpoint of seeing Anna in those Albany College pants. But with the logical progression of his obvious, but mildly occluded, prurient insinuations, well let's just say that if he ever got the golden opportunity to see Anna in those sleep pants, without either his GF's knowledge of, or being in tow with him; I'd be forced to conclude that the chances greatly are that in a short amount of time, Kurt would also express a brazen desire to see what she would look like sans those sleep pants. The probability of that coming to fruition is only as good as the emotional relationship that Anna might come to foster with him, as she progressively continues to tear down her marital boundaries.


Anna: I have to delete this conversation.

Even Anna seems to know that the conversation is getting out of line!
Kurt: I have heard that before. Usually it is from "boss" but glad it's u now
Anna: 12:05 am lol. Hope you are around when I am back here.

She then had to get to airport early for early flight home. There were exchanges that morning about how hung over they feel, need to eat etc. when she got back that morning I confronted her (next post)

Why would she continue this dialogue even as she was on her way home to her husband?

Philly: She's presented you with well more than enough "probable cause" to either personally continue your investigation of her out-of-town activities, or to put a PI on her tail during those trips.

Please take it from a guy who was "so in love" with his XW that he blatently ignored those same signals, hid his gut feelings in the love of her extended family and cheerfully working in their farming business, all while she was out of town bedding down with men from her distant past, then deceptively and knowingly bringing her wares back home for me to taste, not having the first damn clue as to what it was that she was doing!

Please heed your gut feelings and do not run and hide from them! As someone much wiser that I'll ever be once said: "A word to the wise is sufficient!"

 

Eating a meal with a opposite sex coworker in a hotel room is WAY out of line. That alone is enough to get really pissed off about.

I'd never even consider going close when I travel.