Have this on her phone before the next Cleveland trip. Get everything including iMessages. Warning: must be jailbroken first.

iPhone Spy Software – Mobile Spy iPhone Monitoring App

Also I'd hire a baby sitter, not tell her and surprise her at her hotel.

 

1) You REALLY need to read NOT JUST FRIENDS by Dr. Shirley Glass.

2) Your wife's relationship with this man is COMPLETELY inappropriate.

3) Sounds like she is already in an EA at least with him.

4) This is heading straight for a PA, if its not already.

5) A married woman CANNOT have friendships with other men like this, especially a co-worker / boss.

 

PLEASE, OP, for the love of all that's Holy, do NOT be one of these doormat, pushover Nice Guys who is afraid to put an end to your wife's nonsense.

Who cares if she's mad at you today, if she's in your home a year from now.

You put your foot down HARD today, or you will be finding out she's been banging the boss within weeks.

 

Your wife was starting an EA or loved the flirting... The OM the one who would bang your wife when she came into town and have no responsibilities of wrecking your family... If she so much as talks to him again, she is way over the line.

Do NOT rug-sweep this. This needs to be dealt with. She did a bad bad thing. She was looking for male gratification outside of her marriage.

If you are not enough for her, then your marriage is doomed and it is not your fault.

You got her flowers.
You cooked for her.
You let her go out.

What did she do for you? Sounds like a whole bunch of nothing.

Your marriage is more important than her job. Don't let her go out with friends, you take her out! She didn't marry her friends, she married you. She needs to invest in the marriage too.

Go to the gym, start working out. Build the muscles. You need to attract your mate. Eat right. I usually lift from 8:30-10 at night because in general, it's the only time I have available.

 

...If she so much as talks to him again, she is way over the line.

:iagree:

Do NOT rug-sweep this. This needs to be dealt with. She did a bad bad thing. She was looking for male gratification outside of her marriage.

If you are not enough for her, then your marriage is doomed and it is not your fault.

:iagree:

You got her flowers.
You cooked for her.
You let her go out.

What did she do for you? Sounds like a whole bunch of nothing.

...

Last week the new boss was in town. So several coworkers all went out as a group Monday and Wednesday night at the last minute. I made sure not to give her a hard time. She came home very tipsy Wednesday around 9:00 She told me she was appreciative that I let her go out. That she sometimes needed to feel like she felt before kids. Where for a few hours she doesn't have to worry about being a mother. Aside: she is a GREAT mom to the kids, and until last week NEVER goes out.

It sounds to me like she was eating the cake you baked her. She even used the opportunity to justify how some times she needs to act like she did before she had kids...you know, getting drunk with other dudes, flirting and doing stuff you won't know about....and deleting evidence by wiping out texts. Maybe she's buttering you up for the next time....be prepared, because when it happens again, you can expect your blow-up to be followed with more "I can't believe you don't trust me, you're spying on me, you caused this wedge because you're jealous, you can't tell me who I can be friends with..."

Is her work often a toxic environment? Lots of nights out for drinks? Not fun being married to someone who wants to shift their life in this direction, is it?

Your marriage is more important than her job. ... She didn't marry her friends, she married you. She needs to invest in the marriage too.

Go to the gym, start working out. Build the muscles. You need to attract your mate. Eat right. I usually lift from 8:30-10 at night because in general, it's the only time I have available.

:iagree:

We have iOS 7.0 iPhones and from everything I can tell none of that spyware is compatible yet believe me I've looked.

Not that I want to sound like I'm defending her but she didn't delete ANYTHING until after I confronted her. I don't think she would have picked and choosen what to delete before hand, she would have deleted the whole convo before she got home.

So what? That's not a good thing. It's defense...proof is that she got pissed at you for still having a copy and for not rug-sweeping it yet,

She seemed pretty defensive in keeping her friendship with this guy.

Who in their right mind would risk marriage and family over some friend that lives so far away?

The biggest red flag for me was the immediate text disabling of the ipad after you confronted her.

:iagree:

 

We have iOS 7.0 iPhones and from everything I can tell none of that spyware is compatible yet believe me I've looked.

Not that I want to sound like I'm defending her but she didn't delete ANYTHING until after I confronted her. I don't think she would have picked and choosen what to delete before hand, she would have deleted the whole convo before she got home.

 

When my children were younger, one of them stole something and they would not tell me who did it. I took them in the basement and I threatened to use a paddle on them. I threatened them because what they did was pretty serious. I described in great detail how it would hurt and I went into great detail about how it would feel to get it. I talked to them about why it is not ok to do what was done. They were crying well before I used the paddle on any of them. (I didn't have to but I would have)

They knew stealing was wrong. The got a good idea of the consequences. My kids knew I would give them the paddle and they knew it would hurt bad.

I never had to. They got the idea if what they did could cause such a mess and bring so much pain, they would not do it.

The point is. I dealt with the immediate issue. I did not do it to fix what was wrong at that moment. I dealt with it to fix what was wrong period, not only then but for a long time to come.

You do not sweep this under the rug. She did lots of bad things here. She allowed another man to flirt with her while she was away. She entertained bad thoughts. Make no doubt about it. She allowed for those trial balloons and did not just SHUT HIM down. She is NOT innocent in this. She is not a victim. She relished the attention.

She needs to know what it would be like to not be able to spend Christmas with her children as an example. She needs to understand that she is the one who caused all of this.

If there is something amiss in your marriage, you both need to own it and you both need to work on your parts. If she has some PPD, well she needs to deal with it.

 

Your wife is being played, OP. The fact that she's found herself so needy for a man's aggressive attention means you have to really step up your game.

You start by putting this whole fantasy thing she's got with Kurt to a quick death.

 

New boss just started 2-3 weeks ago and is also based in Cleveland. I know nothing about him, other than he was out here last week for work reasons. I'm not concerned with him.

 

She seemed pretty defensive in keeping her friendship with this guy.

Who in their right mind would risk marriage and family over some friend that lives so far away?

The biggest red flag for me was the immediate text disabling of the ipad after you confronted her.

 

:iagree:

:iagree:Completly

Stay in 007 mode

 

After done reading your situation, I'm really confused why are they going on DATES together to get pizza and getting drunk???

And the thing about holding the hand. She lied if she said she shrugged it off immediately. As you've said before, Kurt wouldn't have TEXT that he missed holding hands together, in other words she didn't shrugged it off "immediately" and they DID held hands together.

AND She "CONSCIOUSLY" knew what she is doing is wrong when she typed that she is going to delete "evidence".

ANDDDD if he doesn't work at the bank anymore WHY the F*** are they still in contact?!?!

Oh and a warning for you Philly, I know she's going to pull the "Just a Friend" line on you later down the road. So be prepared. Let yourself be immune to that line, because cheaters use that line a lot in EA's.

 

Oh and a warning for you Philly, I know she's going to pull the "Just a Friend" line on you later down the road. So be prepared. Let yourself be immune to that line, because cheaters use that line a lot in EA's.

Yep. Here's the Cheater's Script, abridged version.

"He's just a friend."
"Texts are just having fun. Nothing to worry about."
"We just held hands."
"He kissed me once but I told him to stop."
"We kissed a lot but that's all. I swear on the kids' lives."
"He touched my breast but I told him to stop. He was really aggressive about it. I won't see him anymore."
"He pulled out his P. I touched it for a second but stopped."
"It was only a little oral."
"We did it once. But I hated it and thought of you the whole time."
"We did it only three times. I swear on my mother's grave. And I promise, I broke it off."
"We did it like animals; I don't know how many times, it was unprotected and also really kinky. Oh and I realize now I love you but am not IN love with you."

 

I don't see that wasn't already a PA. Could be. All the talk about underwear, way out of line. Pizza is a typical sex fuel.

In any event, get in shape. Build your self confidence. Clearly she is detached from you. She ought to be working to repair your marriage.

Is the sex you get duty sex? Was she always so LD?

Posted via Topify using iPhone/iPad

 

Pizza is a typical sex fuel.

:scratchhead:

 

I guess I'm one of the only ones who thinks the OP is jumping the gun.

It seems like your wife let him down easy multiple times in that convo and change the subject a couple times too.

He definitely wants more but I see nothing there that suggests your wife is remotely interested. It does suggest that she's afraid of how you would react if you saw the conversation.

OP: Have you accused her of cheating before this?

 

I had the same feeling when reading through the text convo.

She didnt feed into the pickup although she didnt exactly tell him to stop.

The ipad was the main thing that raised my eyebrows.

If I were OP, I wouldn't say another word about it and start monitoring her activities. Better safe than sorry.

 

Why do I have the feeling this is another one of "those threads"!

 

I'm not sure I know what "another one of those threads" means.

This is the first time I've ever accused her of cheating- and haven't really done that here either.

The texts in and of themselves seem like she was trying to let him down easy. But who knows that is why I posted them they can be interpreted many ways.

What is more concern to me at this point is the anger when I asked her to stop seeing this "friend" she only supposedly sees 3-4 times a year for work reasons (that no longer exist as of two weeks ago) she got really defensive and i got the "you Don't trust me speech"

I've shared this situation with three friends- a guy and two girls. The guy - my best friend- is friends with both of us and is really concerned. The two girls chalked it up to eh she was just happy for the attention and not looking to do anything.

Is as inclined to agree until our conversation a few nights ago.

 

I'm not sure I know what "another one of those threads" means.

This is the first time I've ever accused her of cheating- and haven't really done that here either.

But to those of us who have been on TAM for a while, trust me, we've read your story over and over again.

PG13,
Cheaters follow a predictable script and so do their betrayed spouse's. Both she and you are following that script so far.

She has a "friend" who is a former boss. You allow it because they used to work for eachother and it's always seemed harmless.

It has escalated now to the point where her friendship with him is more important than the marriage with you. You still want to trust her because she claims she would never do anything like that.

You confront her about texts than mean nothing to her yet she deletes them. There are now no longer any communication between them. Really? Search her purse, search her car, look for a burner phone.

Buy a VAR. PM Weightlifter and ask him which one. Put it in her car, securely fasten it up under the driver's seat. Does she talk anywhere else on the phone? Does she ever receive a call and move into another room or go outside?

Honestly, there are several red flags here.

What is more concern to me at this point is the anger when I asked her to stop seeing this "friend" she only supposedly sees 3-4 times a year for work reasons (that no longer exist as of two weeks ago) she got really defensive and i got the "you Don't trust me speech"

I've shared this situation with three friends- a guy and two girls. The guy - my best friend- is friends with both of us and is really concerned. The two girls chalked it up to eh she was just happy for the attention and not looking to do anything.

Is as inclined to agree until our conversation a few nights ago.

And this is one of the biggest red flags. No, at this point you can't trust her. She's put her former boss above you. She's more concerned about his feelings than yours.

Rhetorical question: WHY is he a former boss? He was replaced. Why? Think about that. And please don't tell us what she told you.

You need to find a sitter for the kids for her next trip to Cleveland. You need to go to Cleveland when she does. Do NOT go WITH her. Just go. Monitor her texts and surprise her one evening. Most wives would be pleasantly surprised to get a visit from their beloved H while they are away on business. What do you think her reaction would be. I know, you can't leave the kids. And there is no one else in the entire world capable of watching them I suppose?

What is your marriage worth to you? How badly do you want to stay married to her? Enough to fight for her? Then fight. If not, then let her go and ready yourself to move on.

 

The part of their convo that really bothers me is this bit:

TKurt: next time we eat in your room. Easier to trust room service.
Kurt: Later AP
Anna:

Think for a minute about the purpose of hotels and the largest piece of furniture in the room (or suite). He envisages a scenario where they are alone together in her hotel room. He invites himself back to her hotel and her response in not - "not happening". He crossed a line there and he was testing the waters. Her failure to give him a firm "No!" which can still be achieved with grace and not jeopardise their "friendship" tells him one of two things - "Try harder, I'm enjoying this" or "I'm open to a scenario where 'One thing led to another"

She says she feels absolutely nothing for him. I asked how she felt - clearly he is coming on to you. She says it grossed her out. I said you didn't seem grossed out. She says she would never ever do anything to jeopardize our life, our marriage, or the family.

There's not a thing about their exchange that gave him the message she was grossed out. Quite the contrary.

The sad thing is she is playing with fire and her failure to shut this down brutally is jeopardising her marriage and family. That deed is already done.

I suggest you either wake her up to the reality of men and flirting or get her the book "Not Just Friends" for her to read with you both.

 

:iagree:

The part of their convo that really bothers me is this bit:
Think for a minute about the purpose of hotels and the largest piece of furniture in the room (or suite). He envisages a scenario where they are alone together in her hotel room. He invites himself back to her hotel and her response in not - "not happening". He crossed a line there and he was testing the waters. Her failure to give him a firm "No!" which can still be achieved with grace and not jeopardise their "friendship" tells him one of two things - "Try harder, I'm enjoying this" or "I'm open to a scenario where 'One thing led to another"

There's not a thing about their exchange that gave him the message she was grossed out. Quite the contrary.

The sad thing is she is playing with fire and her failure to shut this down brutally is jeopardising her marriage and family. That deed is already done.

I suggest you either wake her up to the reality of men and flirting or get her the book "Not Just Friends" for her to read with you both.

:iagree: Thats a big YUP

 

Bottom line is that she is more concerned about Kurt, his feelings, and continuing her relationship with him than she is about her husband and his feelings. What does that tell you. Her anger about you sharing your feelings on this and disabling the iPad are huge red flags that she intends to continue with Kurt and hide it from you.

Maybe she has done nothing physical at this point but it could easily turn since it seems she gets tipsy every time she goes to a bar (without you).

"You need to trust me". "I have done nothing wrong". "I do not think of him in that way". "Your insecurities and distrust are going to ruin our marriage". "I deserve my privacy". "You are controlling".

If you have not heard all these excuses, just wait a while, you will hear them. A young mother of two - gets excited about going out to bars with co-workers - has inappropriate texting that involves talk of "dinner in the bedroom next time" and "what are you wearing to bed" - a husband who gets uneasy about the relationship and is told to just "trust" her and that his reaction is ruining the marriage - this scenario has been played out many times on this board.

Now you must define YOUR boundaries. What behavior are YOU willing to accept and live with. For my wife one is zero alone time with male friends and zero alcohol if I am not present. You have to define them clearly and tell her.

She will call you controlling. Tell her that you know you can not control her and she will do what she wants. But based on her choice, then you also have a choice to make.

I told my wife my boundaries. I told her my wife would not behave in this manner out of respect for me and our marriage. She asked "What if I do not agree?" I told her that that is her choice to make - "But I will say one last time, MY WIFE will not behave in that manner". I told her it is her choice, but if she insisted on meeting male friends alone and drinking to excess then she would no longer be my wife.

 

I'm not married, so forgive me if I'm missing something. I have a girlfriend, if another man texted her or made a pass at her, me and him would have a little chat, just so he knows what's up.
Let me be clear, I'm ok with flirting but this man is clearly setting up a date so they can be alone..in a hotel room together.

Once again a man suggested that to my girlfriend, him and I are meeting face to face, just so he knows if he's brave enough to go ahead and arrange the room meeting what the consequences are.

Is it me? For the life of me, another man propositions your woman and you do nothing? To be clear I'm not blaming the wife..well sort of, but it's her boss so there maybe complications but in no way shape or form could I let this slide. No way.

 

I expect my wife to be pursued by other men. I expect her to be hit on. I expect other men to try and flirt with her. She is a beautiful, desirable woman. I do not get upset by other men chasing her - that is to be expected. It would be her inappropriate reaction or her action in response that would get me upset.

If my wife came to me and told me about a guy who would just not leave her alone - then I might have a "come to Jesus meeting" with him.

 

Nope. Nail this to the wall. Now!!! Trust me on this one. I found a text kinda eerily like this between my ex her OM about 3 or 4 weeks before the affair began. She gave me the same stupid story. And then like a month later... Well, just check my first thread.

You need to expose this. Your wife needs to hand all passwords for phone and social media sites. Since the day's of being able to chain a woman to the kitchen then bedroom aren't considered "proper" in society anymore. I suggest counseling.

You need to be proactive. Not reactive.

You have a chance her. To stop an affair from blossoming.

Do not believe your wife. Trust your gut.

You are correct. Where there is smoke there is almost always, fire.

 

I searched high and low for a burner and so far haven't found one. Last contact on her cell phone was a week ago Wednesday.

Kurt is now no longer with the bank. They had a group dinner with new boss in upstate NY, followed by a night at a country club where older coworker 65+ was bartender for a fund raiser. Kurt was not involved, but yes she did come home tipsy. This is unusual that she went out, but i chalked it up to the charity event. She was home at 9:00 and very affectionate. Almost never goes out after work.

I am assuming they didn't do anything ahead of time, since he only referenced hand holding. But maybe I'm being naive. His gf met them out at 10:00; they ordered a white pizza that was not good. This was referenced in the I'm so hungover posts the next morning.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Boils down to this. Text messages husband. Good. Flirting with husband. Good. Going out to dinner with husband. Good.

Text messages to another guy? Bad. Flirting with another man. Bad. Going out to dinner with another man. Bad.

Bet you a shiny red apple that if you did what she's doing, she would not be real happy with you.

When she goes out of town, does she drive? If so, install a GPS on her car. Matter in fact I would do that now. At least you'll know where she is.

 

Anna: 12:05 am lol. Hope you are around when I am back here.

She says she feels absolutely nothing for him. I asked how she felt - clearly he is coming on to you. She says it grossed her out. I said you didn't seem grossed out. She says she would never ever do anything to jeopardize our life, our marriage, or the family.

The only thing that makes sense is if she meant, "Hope you are around when I am back here so you can hold my hand and gross me out some more." Ya, I'm sure that's it.

 

Kurt: next time we eat in your room. Easier to trust room service.
Kurt: Later AP
Anna:
Anna: don't forget me because you are gone now!
Kurt: you're cute. Have a good night sweetie. Sorry I missed on dinner. Order at hotel. Next time in town let me know.

The other man (“OM”) tells your wife that next time they will order room service and eat in her room, and your wife’s only response to this is to tell him “don’t forget me”, instead of saying that this is not going to happen? The OM then calls your wife “cute” for her “don’t forget me” response, followed by calling her “sweetie” and restating that next time they meet in her room.

Anna: already in bed... No dinner tonight.
Kurt: And that is somehow hot. The dinner part my bad. But the bed part...
Kurt: it is early now that I see it. What do you sleep in?
Anna: seriously you are in the car with "girlfriend"
Kurt: Umm... I am home. I live 15 minutes away. You should come hang. I will cook dinner. (I do not know if he lives with girlfriend)
Anna: so it is "Albany College" pajama pants. Now that is TMI
Kurt: that is cute.

The OM continues to hit on her hard, and tries to get her to come to his home alone with him late at night; his girlfriend does not live with him which is why when your wife asked if he was with the girlfriend in the car, he made it clear that he was home without her. Your wife went along with his inappropriateness when she told him what she was sleeping in; he should not have asked such a thing, and she should not have answered.

And I liked holding your hand. Different, now but had fun. Hope you did too. I want to see.
Anna: to see?
Kurt: Albany College pants
Anna: I have to delete this conversation.

The OM continues the non-stop hitting on her. He stated that he liked holding her hand and asked if she liked it too, which he would not have asked if she pulled away immediately like she later claimed to you. The fact that he said holding her hand was “Different, now but had fun” indicates that it was not the first time that they may have held hands. Her telling the OM that she is deleting the conversation, is telling the OM that the true nature of her relationship with the OM is to be kept a secret from you; he was thus encouraged by your wife to continue to be inappropriate with her without fear of repercussions from you. Spouses with healthy martial boundaries would never say such a thing, because they would know that they should be sharing such conversations with their spouses.

The OM is a single man that does not live with his girlfriend, that is no longer a coworker, and has clearly let your wife know that his intentions in seeing her are not honorable, yet she wants to continue to see him without you. You need to tell her that this man is not plutonic opposite sex just friends material for her, and that she must agree to full no contact with the OM going forward. You need to also tell her that going forward there needs to be full transparency between the two of you which includes both of you sharing all passwords without complaint. Remind her that that in healthy marriages that there is no need for privacy accept for when you are in the bathroom.

 

I see the eyes rolling already cause yep. WL is doing another RDMU story.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO REPEAT RDMU

Poster RDMU came here with a few red flags that ended up being a full affair.

Abridged version.

One of their friends was the proverbial fox in the henhouse. He worked RDMU's wife for NINE MONTHS before bedding her. Different flavor but same thing. Befriend>Work boundaries>test> until your in.

DO NOT REPEAT RDMU

one day YOUR WIFE will be the drunk one, or pizzed off at you. You are already weak in the sex department.

CRUSH THIS NOW CRUSH THIS HARD CRUSH THIS COMPLETELY!

Inland is right. He calls it something different than what I learned it as but this guy is HITTING ON YOUR WIFE. This player method is so easy I could teach it to you in 20 minutes if you are median looks or above, Work 10 women, even if you are mediocre you will be bedding two of them in 3 months. If you are good it will be 3 of the 10.

Dude you have a chance. You have no idea how much MORE it will hurt when you learn another man has put his load inside YOUR WIFE.

 

Re: Re: Wife's texts while she was on the road.

DO NOT BE RDMU

Weightlifter, I truly appreciate the helpful advice you give BS's here, but this message is almost crossing the line into shaming from my viewpoint. I understand the level of involvement you had in his story and that your purpose has always been one of help and education.

There may be many, including you, that do not agree with RDMU's actions or choices (or the outcome), but the choices were his to make. Saying "don't be like this person" is not the kind of advice we should be offering.

Apologies for my derail, and no offense to anyone intended, especially you, Weightlifter. I hope you understand my feelings. I don't often have time to post as much as I'd like, but I very much support TAM as a place that has offered an eye opening, supportive stance on human nature in general.

 

This is a post by doubletrouble that is the closest to posting what it feels like. IMHO a masterpiece.

Dude you have a chance. The reason you are getting so many posts is because we see the oncoming train and we are BEGGING YOU TO GET OFF THE TRACKS!

Credit below doubletrouble

>I can tell you a few things about that from a male BS standpoint.

Echoing what wl just said, you cannot say you're sorry often enough. Keep saying it. AND follow up with real change, real actions.

The mind movies of her being with another man are something that runs through my head EVERY DAY. Every day when I see the same model car, hear his name randomly on the radio or during my business day, and other triggers I won't go into for various reasons... they all put my mind back in that bed, with her naked and wet, him naked and hard, taking what was supposed to be mine. She gave it willingly, thoroughly, completely, and then wrote to him what it was like to be in such a realtionship where she loved him so much.

At that point with her I had NOTHING of what I thought I did. I was oblivious at the time, and she never told me. I had to find out. They did it in OUR bed, and since I was traveling at the time, I arrived the next day. His sperm wasn't even dead inside her before she accepted mine as well. That bites, in ways I can't even describe. It's the biggest betrayal, the biggest hit on my manhood and sexuality, as a provider and ALL the roles I take on as head of the family. That guy came in and stole it all... no, she gave it all to him in those moments.

And it's not just the moments of sex, which are bad enough. To know what was being said between the two of them, and knowing he was married anyway, so just grabbing a free piece of ass at MY expense -- it's utter destruction of my heart.

I could write on and on, because it goes on and on, but maybe that can give you a flavor of what you've done to your husband in those moments of gonad-driven stupidity and utter irresponsibility. You should be ashamed, you should be contrite, you should apologize over and over, and you must do all the heavy lifting because it was your CHOICE to spread 'em for some strange.

And I tell her: I hope it was worth it. <

 

Are you still with her??????

 

What is not wanted is your wife sobbing to you saying: "You were right! Kurt slipped something into my drink and he raped me!"

And Kurt would never do that, right? Yes Kurt bloody-well would. Because that's what Kurt is.

 

Matt, if Kurt did that then it appears she's okay with that. And is going back for more.