This is probably an over-simplification of things, but can you not just send him an email telling him nicely (or not-so-nicely) to stop contacting your wife, period? You don't need to threaten him or call him names. Just state matter-of-factly that he's been a thorn in your side and he's not welcome in your or your wife's lives.

And cc: your wife on it.

If she won't put her foot down firmly, somebody has to.

I did something similar a few years ago, though somewhat unintentionally. My wife left her FB open, and some guy shot her a message that popped up that I saw. It was inappropriate (though not highly so). Like a comment on what she was wearing that day at work or something. So I stared at it for a few minutes and thought "what the hell", and typed back a quick message saying something like "hi, this is ____'s boyfriend, Mike. We share a computer together, as well as a house, just so you know. Anything else you'd like me to pass on to her when she gets home?" He didn't reply, and I let my wife know what happened when she got home. She wasn't pissed, oddly enough. Probably a little embarrassed, but I think she grudgingly appreciated me marking my territory like that. They are no longer FB friends.

*edit - FYI, I took it upon myself to go through all prior FB messages with this guy, and didn't see anything worth worrying about. I would definitely say this guy was fishing, though on a very small scale, and my wife's responses to him were very dismissive (though I wished they had been a bit more forceful, of course...) They were co-workers. I was also mentioned (positively) in these messages. It was really just chit-chat, with a little bit of fishing on his part, but generally on the up-and-up.

 

PG - As the owner of a yellow lab that I walk at 5:30 AM and also at night, and 3 X on the weekends....in February...in the rain.....in the snow...etc,

I love my dog, but it's a big committment. Not something to be taken lightly.

 

Agreed. And while I travel a lot, I also work from home when not on the road. So that helps. But then there will be days I'm traveling and wife has long day at office, or kids stuff.

She's agreed to do ALL the dog-walking. (She also mentioned a bridge for sale

 

Just plan for consideration. A little luv-note for the Kurtchild. Maybe if your W knows the next steps, it'll help her too. Or actually have a lawyer draft something.

---------------------cut here-------------------------

Kurt,

My wife and I both have observed your inappropriate conduct the days of and after you left XXXX. You are hereby notified you are to never get in touch or contact my wife in any way. Any such communication or contact, no matter how or why will end with your current employer receiving all information and formal legal complaint extended against you and your employer over your behavior.

There will also be a legal filing of harassment and order of protection lodged (or whatever his state calls this) against you. This will go as public as possible. Family, friends will be informed.

Should you feel legal recourse is necessary, we look forward to a complete discovery process into your private life way beyond what we already know and where evidence is presented for the public record.

Simply stop any and all contact, harassment and this goes no further.

PS ever hear of cheatervilleDOTcom?

---------------------cut here-------------------------


or maybe copy this to his HR dept too.

*phew, I feel better now*

 

As effective as a chocolate fire-guard, that.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

PG13, I have followed ther story and reread it today (slow day at work).

When I read your very first post, it seemed clear they did indeed hold hands despite her denial. And then there's deleted texts... If for no other reason that that I support your snooping. I maintain there is no privacy in marriage. My wife and I have 100% access to diaries, journals (where she has said some harsh things about me once in a while when mad at me), emails...

So I say stick with it, but don't get paranoiod. If there's nothing to hide, then there's nothing she could be upset about. She was the one holding hands and deleting texts. Innocent or not, that's not innocent behavior.

Now, I am NOT saying she has betrayed you. maybe guilty of flirty texts. But you have a right to know.

 

PG13, I have seen this whole thing a few times before. Even as a manager in my early days, my best performing staff were often women in a very male-dominated environment (think Japanese firm). I had to literally swim upstream to get them the promotions and bonuses they deserved and they worked twice as hard as everyone else. As a result they were very loyal to me even when I "fell out" with senior management. And I continue to stay in touch with some of them even till today. This is the loyalty your wife feels towards Kurt. It could have also developed into romantic feelings but I don't think it has.

However, he did get inappropriate with her and that was genuine cause for concern. There is nothing wrong with staying vigilant. However, her loyalty is to be commended. Not her sense in understanding how you feel, though. She needs to understand that you understand all of the above. And still need her to be open with you. Tell her you commend her loyalty to someone who supported her in her career but are concerned about him overstepping boundaries every now and then and hence need her to be very open with you about him.

 

Her loyalty should be to her husband and family not an exboss who wants to get in her pants.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Key-loggers and VARs are your friends.

 

Remember the days when men's honor meant something? Remember the days when if you screwed with a man's wife or family you got a beatdown...or worse. Yeah, I miss those days too.

 

Pistols at dawn?
"I challenge you to a duel!"

Agreed. Back then, somebody had to go...

 

I remember when the police might give you a second beatdown if they found out what the first one was for. This world sucks sometimes.

 

I'm going to put him on notice, once LinkedIn issue resolves.

Basically:

"Dude. Leave my wife alone. I saw your texts to her last November. No, they were not innocent. You wanted to be alone in her hotel room and you wanted pics of her in her pajamas. Here is proof. Care to explain why you were holding my wife's hand?

I expect there to be no further attempts at contact."

cc: wife

Or better yet, make her send it and cc me.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

First, this should have been done some time ago. I think it's probably too late now, but send it anyway.

Second, send it yourself and cc the wife.

 

I was stupid in trusting her. Maybe naive not stupid. Going out for drinks when a coworker leaves a job isn't uncommon. What I should have said then was, if it's just the two of you, no, that's not appropriate.

Live and learn!
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Agreed.

What married person even places themselves in that position?

I mean, your wife says to trust her and that's all well and good, but trust only goes so far. It's human nature that when men and women get together the sparks can fly- even if not intended. That's why married people set boundaries. Your wife pushed them too far and held hands with a man not her husband. Maybe she felt sorry for him or saw it as an act of friendship- but either way, she lied to you about it. I'd say her trust factor is way down.

My wife trusted a guy that wanted her help with a blog and I forbid her to go to his house, but agreed for them to meet at a coffee shop. That began a small EA that she fell into and had me triggering all over the place thinking a lot worse. Fortunately, she saw it early on and backed out. But we have had a few tough conversations about it.

So trust is one thing, but without necessary and proper boundaries, it's not worth much.

 

She knows the conversation was extremely inappropriate. A lot of tears shed since. She still that he tried grabbing her hand as they were walking into another bar, and she immediately pulled away - that that is the hand holding. Swears up and down. It doesn't make sense to me but I've moved on. Immediately = 5 seconds? Who knows.

No- no other indication before or since that there are problems with infidelity. In fact her loyalty and dedication to ME from early on in our relationship is what I loved about her.

Anyway, things are ok. I will think about sending a message to Kurt. I agree with both the whys and why nots as to send it or not.

In even worse news, my mother is coming for the weekend. I'd rather sit through a thousand ice bucket challenge videos than endure her for the weekend, but it is what it is. So I'm going to be extra nice to the wife this weekend. Hope y'all have a nice weekend too and thanks for letting me vent.

 

She knows the conversation was extremely inappropriate. A lot of tears shed since. She still that he tried grabbing her hand as they were walking into another bar, and she immediately pulled away - that that is the hand holding. Swears up and down. It doesn't make sense to me but I've moved on. Immediately = 5 seconds? Who knows.

I'm sorry Philly, but the above simple doesn't jibe with this...

Kurt: that is cute... And I liked holding your hand. Different, now but had fun. Hope you did too. I want to see.

Those aren't typically the words a man would say to a woman after getting rejected for trying to hold hands.

Maybe I making something out of nothing, but it just doesn't compute to me.

 

In her defense, and not trying to defend the whole situation, she didn't actually delete anything right away. When she got home I expected the messages to be gone off her phone, but they weren't. She had several hours in an airport to delete things and she didn't. And they remained for a few days before she finally deleted everything. Though I had taken screen shots anyway.

Whenever I flirt with her over text, "I love you can't wait to see you tonight. " she will respond "I'm deleting this". She never flirted over text with me. Even though I'm away a ton. That was a big annoyance for me/ her flirting with this chump but never with me. Of course now I get some PG flirts, never pics, but at this point they are tainted like she is trying to make it up to me. This week I asked her to send me some pics she said No!!! I don't want pics of me out there!! I guess it's a good thing but a little spice would be nice.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Showed this to a coworker who is your age, married same time, 2 kids as well what he thought of it.

He read it and said this guy was out and out after your wife and no doubt he would have gone straight to him (even if he hasd to catch a flight) and Kurt loses a few teeth. Next, a much better explination than you got from wife.

 

Yes I know he was after my wife, and she at a minimum didn't discourage any of it, and was in fact encouraging him. Long established.

Yes I suppose I could have gone and punched him out.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Well this was so many months ago and she did not respond to his latest attempt I say for now let it go.

3Putt made a good observation though there was something brewing at that time.
You say things are okay now.
Assuming no more contact let it go.

 

Nope 3putt that was my argument for months. She's sticking with her story.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Yea like Bill Clinton

 

I... Did not... Hold hands... With that... POSOM!!
Posted via Mobile Device

 

I... Did not... Hold hands... With that... POSOM!!

If that were true, the time for her to have said that was when the the other man said "And I liked holding your hand. Different, now but had fun. Hope you did too." But instead of telling him that they "Did not... Hold hands", she told him that "I have to delete this conversation." Sorry but there is no doubt that they held hands. Funny how cheater ignore solid proof and continue with the lie in the belief that as long as they do not admit it you cannot hold them accountable; that only works if what you think does not matter.

 

PG,

Don't let all the opinions get you angry or relive events. Good to share and read here. Lots of opinions. The PIs evidence is huge and great information that counters much of what's being said here. Get him scheduled for the next trip. Zero issues with that at all. Or you go with her for some fun and nights out. (And have the PI on the job anyway! LOL)

 

PG13, I am glad this seems to have resolved itself and all, but I have a random question.

As you consider all that has been said between you and your wife, had you not intercepted the texts at all- in fact, if she came home and you said, "how was the evening?", and she said, "meh, ok.", and that ended the conversation.... what are the chances he continues to text her and she continues to reply... and then does she at some point in time go to visit him? I mean, even if she thinks of it all as seeing a good friend knowing he's blowing hard up her skirt and her all the while thinking she can handle his advances... And if so, does she make some excuse to you about going to see a girlfriend so as not to upset you (because, in her mind he's just a close friend...)?

Now, I say this NOT because I'm trying to get wrong thoughts into your head, but for someone demanding your full and blind trust, she was egging him on fully. That is clear. But what I am getting at, I suppose, is this....

Is your relationship such that she would never betray you? Does she feel like flirting and leading men on is OK so long as she 'knows her limits and boundaries'? Are you fully convinced she will never have contact again with Kurt? Or any other man?

I am sure you can trust your gut on this, but what this says to me is that she may have looser boundaries than I would feel comfortable with with respect to men 'friends'.

 

Damn. To be honest this is one thread I sincerely hoped would never start up again.

 

Me too!

 

Sadly W had/has the opportunity to rebuild trust with the contact by OM via LinkedIn. She feels PG13 might get angry or overreact if she advises PG13 that OM contacted her. I don't know how W can logically assume PG13 will overreact. He asked to be advised if contact was made. How can PG13 overreact to that? The reaction would be remove him from W LinkedIn page or simply ignore the message. Thank you for advising me and let me know if contact via LinkedIn or any other means continues.

I hope W really understands she brought some toxic crap home from the night of drinking with the xboss. It is up to her to clear the toxic crap.

 

I hope W really understands she brought some toxic crap home from the night of drinking with the xboss. It is up to her to clear the toxic crap.

Good post. And therein lies the hope.

Except for some grossly inappropriate flirting, nothing happened (I do wonder if they kissed each other goodnight or held each other too long at the end of the night- but I am NOT NOT NOT starting down that road) and this is something that can lead to her reconsidering her boundaries and committments in her marriage. And maybe this will also bring PG13 closer to her as well.

I see a lot of positives potentially from all this.

 

Why not just say "hey wife, I just noticed pos sent you a LinkedIn request, are you going to respond? Has he contacted you at all these past 8 months?"
Let's see if she'll lie or tell the truth.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Geeze, if PG13 ever returns to his thread he'll have a lot to answer. We're completely diagnosed him, his wife, the whole situation, their marriage....

We're something around here.

 

I hope he isn't back in this thread but only to contribute and help others.
Let's hope it stays that way.

 

My opinion: he reached out and took her hand, she didn't take it back very qucikly but did take it back. OM noticed the delay, thought there was much more to her hesitation and put his desire out there more directly *once back in the safety of behind a keyboard*. If there had been an actual kiss goodnight, he would have referenced it.

Wifey knew she had a moment of letting it go too far flirt-wise, as she enjoyed the attention and the momentary rush. And she knows she didn't shut it down forcefully, because she likes him well enough and thinks she can handle him -- so she feels guilty.

I'm with alex's advice. It's water under the bridge, you're searching for something tiny in the big picture here (did they or did they nit really hold hands) with only a gray area answer, and letting it derail your marriage and your life. Don't. It happened, it was minor but it was inappropriate, she's remorseful, done all the right things since except tell you about linkedin hit. Be vigilant, yes. Hyper-vigilant looking for something that isn't there will just drive you to an early grave. Make sure the punishment fits the crime here. If, if, if if's may all be true, but they are projections, not facts.

And don't get a damn dog. I know it's not apples to apples, but while in my attempted R I made the mistake of getting us a dog for my son, to bring some hope of the future -- and now on my way to D, I am paying for the dog's expenses, boarding, and vet bills. Not a very bright move on my part, and I resent the dog who has done nothing wrong.

 

I don't think there is evidence about the duration of holding hands. My impression is that it could also have been a longer time while sitting in a bar.

In my view there is no mistake about both their intentions. Her 'Fog' has not come to completion by the early discovery. But she was open to an EA with him, and the way the talk was, giving OM hope for more in the future.

I would say OP is right to monitor, but assuming she has gotten a warning shot, and tries to behave more careful, OP should concentrate on improving the relation from his side. Become more intimate lovers, communicate better, build the trust you need in a long term relation.