[CouldItBeSo]

Social science says otherwise. Are you a science denier?

Prove it.

@tom67 the quality of your sources is not that impressive. They are all telling "secrets" to you... Bummer now everyone knows them since they posted them on the Internet! :slap:

 

[Machiavelli]

Prove it.

@tom67 the quality of your sources is not that impressive. They are all telling "secrets" to you... Bummer now everyone knows them since they posted them on the Internet! :slap:

There's actually nothing wrong with Tom's source; despite the mercenary angle, the facts are solid and grounded in good social science research.

As for proof, Google is your friend. But here's one on the house to get you started: When Fertile, Women Want Manly Men.

You can google any of my contentions, other than anecdotal ones from my own experience, and click back through the popular press references and come up with the actual scientific sources from which they spring. The internet tubes are really cool that way.

 

[tom67]

There's actually nothing wrong with Tom's source; despite the mercenary angle, the facts are solid and grounded in good social science research.

As for proof, Google is your friend. But here's one on the house to get you started: When Fertile, Women Want Manly Men.

You can google any of my contentions, other than anecdotal ones from my own experience, and click back through the popular press references and come up with the actual scientific sources from which they spring. The internet tubes are really cool that way.

There are so many and I'm going to bed but yes I agree it was not the best.

 

[tom67]

I thought Mach was reaching also until I read some of these and it made sense with some of my life experiences and then I said oh wait a minute.
Anyway just read some of the links.

 

[Machiavelli]

I thought Mach was reaching also until I read some of these and it made sense with some of my life experiences and then I said oh wait a minute.
Anyway just read some of the links.

Exactly. These are timeless behaviors, that don't merely happen in our everyday lives, but they appear in literature since the beginning of writing. Yet for the past 150 years we have been told to not believe what happens in front of our very eyes. Then science comes along and "proves" what we already know by personal experience, but unconsciously suppress to avoid cognitive dissonance.

 

[Machiavelli]

Your claims are not facts either.

Sure they are.

 

[Stronger-now]

Social science says otherwise. Are you a science denier?

Dude, I am a social scientist. And I will be the first to say social science is not natural science. We social scientist do not say "it is proven." We say "so far empirical evidence indicate this and that." And I haven't mentioned the technicality with social science research design since most social science research cannot be performed in a controlled environment. You cannot simply say a "conclusion" from some social science research as "fact." Fact is, something that will always be true. You repeat the same thing over and over again, in different circumstance, it will always be true. Your claims? Nope.

I say "whatever floats your boat" because if it makes you feel better about yourself or beneficial for your professional life, good for you. But I thought I would say something because this whole thing perpetuates the fear of aging. And if you read in here, isn't this attitude of putting youthful attributes in pedestal, something to worship and thrive for, that in many cases here, a red flag of a cheating spouse? How many times we read: my spouse is feeling bad about getting older, they start to dress up younger, etc etc etc...and voila, yes, they are cheating. And to be honest, I don't really like the sexist attitude either.

 

[davecarter]

I'm going to have to go with Mach here...since I split with my wife in April last year, I tried to totally change my lifestyle, outlook, attitude, body-shape....the works.
Physically, pre-affair, I'd let myself go: I was 45 yrs old, 6'3" but was 230lb, out of shape, boring haircut, never really did anything but the odd running or cycling.

FF to today, I'm 200lb, BFI of about 17-20%, I only hit weights 4x a week, my 'Golden-Ratio' is looking TONS better than at anytime in my life, I shaved my head, I have a tanning session here and there (LOL - sad but true), I don't have a great job but I bought myself a BMW in Aug: since D-Day, my dates have aged 43, 36, 32, 40 and 28 - lookswise, none of them have been 8s or 9s...but beggers can't be choosers, eh?

Maybe it is my overall personality has changed, but there IS truth into what Mach is trying to put forward...

 

[tom67]

I'm going to have to go with Mach here...since I split with my wife in April last year, I tried to totally change my lifestyle, outlook, attitude, body-shape....the works.
Physically, pre-affair, I'd let myself go: I was 45 yrs old, 6'3" but was 230lb, out of shape, boring haircut, never really did anything but the odd running or cycling.

FF to today, I'm 200lb, BFI of about 17-20%, I only hit weights 4x a week, my 'Golden-Ratio' is looking TONS better than at anytime in my life, I shaved my head, I have a tanning session here and there (LOL - sad but true), I don't have a great job but I bought myself a BMW in Aug: since D-Day, my dates have aged 43, 36, 32, 40 and 28 - lookswise, none of them have been 8s or 9s...but beggers can't be choosers, eh?

Maybe it is my overall personality has changed, but there IS truth into what Mach is trying to put forward...

It is the attitude adjustment that changes the dynamic also.

 

[tom67]

Stronger not everything can be quantified.
Many opinions are a good thing imo.

 

[davecarter]

It is the attitude adjustment that changes the dynamic also.

I think so too. My attitude / confidence are way, way higher as a result of what I've done to myself, physically as well...

 

[tom67]

I think so too. My attitude / confidence are way, way higher as a result of what I've done to myself, physically as well...

Good movie to watch believe me.

Payback (1999) - IMDb

 

[davecarter]

My gut tells me nothing is probably going on. But I do feel I need to make sure. I do have a bit OCD going on. These thoughts never in a million years crossed my mind until I saw those texts. I'm sure everyone on this board has also said "never in a million years". she comes from a good strong family with good values. Still talks to both parents each day (I talk to mine every 1-2 weeks) She was never promiscuous.

As far as Kurt, I've never met him. He met her when he became her boss in fall 2012, let go in November 2013. She had a years worth of texts from him on her phone, mostly work related. Since they all travel ins that group he had asked that everyone text him updates on accounts, etc.

She went to Indians game with him and his girlfriend "Michelle" last spring when she was in Cleveland. They were playing the team that we follow, and had good seats. She texted me photos throughout the night. The next day she thanked him via text and said it was really nice to meet Michelle and thanks for including me. Girlfriend is in her late 20s, VERY attractive, big age gap.

I know he has a young daughter, and had a vicious custody battle over her last year, he frequently needed time off for that. He was awarded custody. I know his mother was also very sick and he needed time off for that as well. She did text him when that was going on- hope your mom is doing better or to that effect. He didn't respond.

He also offered to find me a job in the company last year. Last year I was looking for something else and he wanted my resume. I also had a banking background and worked for same company for a number of years until economy tanked in 2008. Different line of business- never knew him since he wasn't in the company until 2012.

He has a Facebook and LinkedIn account both get minimal use it seems. Wife is not connected with him on either account. Though they have common connections on LinkedIn.

So no I never met him, and thought he was an above board guy. Until the texts in November. Is it possible he just had a lot to drink, figured he'd harmlessly flirt? Possible. But just as possible he is a predator just looking for a notch in his belt. I know nothing about the circumstances with the mother of his daughter so I won't speculate. But we know something must be messed up with mother if the father gets full custody. I know he has a really attractive GF 5-6 years younger than my wife, blonder, skinnier, single with no kids.

It's this 50/50 limbo that is killing me. Sometimes I think something is definitely going on, sometimes I think I'm insane.

PhillyGuy,

Sorry for the (additional) thread-jack!

Based on what you've said in this post, I think you're alright here.
I'd be very surprised if your wife had a one-night-stand with this guy let alone start an affair.

 

[Stronger-now]

Stronger not everything can be quantified.
Many opinions are a good thing imo.

I agree with you. Opinions. But countering differing opinion by touting this as "fact?" Since fact is always true anything different than the fact is always wrong, implying different opinion regarding this "sexual attraction science" is always wrong. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything. But oh well.

I'm going to have to go with Mach here...since I split with my wife in April last year, I tried to totally change my lifestyle, outlook, attitude, body-shape....the works.
Physically, pre-affair, I'd let myself go: I was 45 yrs old, 6'3" but was 230lb, out of shape, boring haircut, never really did anything but the odd running or cycling.

FF to today, I'm 200lb, BFI of about 17-20%, I only hit weights 4x a week, my 'Golden-Ratio' is looking TONS better than at anytime in my life, I shaved my head, I have a tanning session here and there (LOL - sad but true), I don't have a great job but I bought myself a BMW in Aug: since D-Day, my dates have aged 43, 36, 32, 40 and 28 - lookswise, none of them have been 8s or 9s...but beggers can't be choosers, eh?

Maybe it is my overall personality has changed, but there IS truth into what Mach is trying to put forward...

Good for you. Hopefully you will get to the point where you don't think that way, instead as someone with something to offer and expect someone with more or less equal contribution to the whatever relationship you are having now.

 

[davecarter]

Good for you. Hopefully you will get to the point where you don't think that way, instead as someone with something to offer and expect someone with more or less equal contribution to the whatever relationship you are having now.

Sorry, SN, I'm a guy.

 

[Stronger-now]

Sorry, SN, I'm a guy.

I thought so. Have never met a woman named "dave," yet.

 

[davecarter]

I thought so. Have never met a woman named "dave," yet.

 

[CouldItBeSo]

Sure they are.

Only in your little "Greek" world. Most of your posts are only theory.

The link you provided does not even apply to marriages and that survey/study has nothing to do with training, golden ratio or male physique.

 

[CouldItBeSo]

Dammit it all makes sense now. She's been on a Greek yogurt kick for a while now. Now I know why. Lol

Interesting discussion.

Lol. :lol:

Sorry for the thread jack. I guess you haven't seen the Greek Golden Ratio -lecture posts with the small wiener-guy statue photo, complete with pie-charts and -diagrams.

 

[LongWalk]

I believe a great deal of what Mach writes. Yes, there is a tinge of mysogyny in what he observes from time to time, but how could the relationship between men and women be bland, given the good and bad that we do to each other?

In the length of history men have seduced women, gotten them pregnant and walked away to let them fend for themselves. I would expect some women to feel bitter. It is no wonder that women use emotion to try and get men to commit. Marriage serves the female agenda from a biological point of view.

But men have gone along with marriage. The elimination of slavery, would it be possible in a society in which large numbers of beta males had poor prospects of marriage?

Look at some martial civilzations: many have isolated men from women to keep in them in a pitch of aggression. The Brits separated the children of the eilte into special all male schools to play sports, receive corporal punishment, learn government, practice discipline, etc. This corp of men then went out and conquered the world.

When male Spartans began military training at age seven, they would enter the Agoge system. The Agoge was designed to encourage discipline and physical toughness and to emphasise the importance of the Spartan state. Boys lived in communal messes and, according to Xenophon, whose sons attended the agoge, the boys were fed "just the right amount for them never to become sluggish through being too full, while also giving them a taste of what it is not to have enough."[76] Besides physical and weapons training, boys studied reading, writing, music and dancing. Special punishments were imposed if boys failed to answer questions sufficiently 'laconically' (i.e. briefly and wittily).[77]

Spartan men remained in the active reserve until age 60. Men were encouraged to marry at age 20 but could not live with their families until they left their active military service at age 30.

The essential truths that Mach describes do not resolve all of the complexities of the relationships between the sexes, but they conform to evolutionary logic.

A good looking young feminist journalist once disguised her self as an obese woman. One of the things that she learned was that men ceased to look at her a woman. There was no interest in her as a sexual being. Her normal state of existence was to be annoyed that men were checking her out. Being dismissed bothered her much more.