[Wolfman1968]

You’re right. I didn’t educate myself. I said, “I’m not aware...” It sounds like this is far from the norm from all the other states. If you strive for accuracy, YOU should have paid better attention to what you shared. YOUR article stated: “17 years is the legal duration to presume permanent alimony liability in that jurisdiction”.

A. It doesn’t apply to FG’s 3.5yr marriage. B. FL is one of only 7 states with permanent alimony & C. As far as adultery goes, “Courts are most likely to take adultery into account when one spouse's affair caused the other financial harm. For example, if one spouse bought lavish gifts for a paramour using marital funds, the court might factor that into the alimony award.”

None of your “advice” applies to FG. What was the point of your whistle-blowing mission anyway?


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I didn't say that my "whistle-blowing mission", as you inappropriately name it, was specifically addressing the number of years involved in OP's note or anything else besides correcting your invalid statement. My statement is completely accurate. YOUR mistake was assuming it was meant specifically and only for the OP.

I quite clearly stated that people---ANYONE, not just the OP---may make rely on incorrect information posted here, and make mistakes prior to contacting their attorney to get the true information. In fact, OP seems to have his ducks in a row, so it's OTHERS besides the OP you are likely to mislead with your faulty information.

You need to get that chip off your shoulder. You haven't shed it from your original post. The goal is to be accurate when making statements of fact that other readers who come here for information might rely on as true.

 

[GusPolinski]

“Con-artist”? I didn’t interpret that. She sounds young and arrogant, but many doctors have God complexes. I get it, but it doesn’t mean they should carry it home.

OP said he “supported” her. Unless she has $0 student loans, he likely didn’t *pay for* her tuition & she has big debt. I’m guessing he paid their living expenses with his income. If school was their proverbial “children” and she took them on, now she’s returning the favor. He gets to be home while she makes the dough. She’s probably paying more now to support them than he ever did. (Just a theory)

She cheated. She sucks. Either way it sounds like OP’s coming out on top. This whole thread has been about money. OP has rarely said he loves her or is heartbroken. Just my observation. That’s all. I know how much this forum ❤s women who do this same thing... (NOT)

Why should that matter?

 

[frustratedinphx]

I’ll be honest, I don’t see many of you guys defending women in the “take ‘em for all they’re worth...” argument. Many BSs seem genuinely horrified about their betrayal. They mourn the loss of the relationship & of the person they thought they loved. I don’t see that in FG. It went straight to money. FTR- this is the 3rd or 4th time I’ve said this & y’all seem to gloss right over it. Speaking of BSs, remember *I’M ONE TOO*, so I don’t get the double-standard.

Sometimes you’re very kind (almost too kind) to OPs & I worry you’re fueling the monsters some BSs become- to the point of them 1. not learning to take a road so low, they’ll regret it later, 2. if an OPs goal it to R (not this OP), they’ll sh*it on the BS to the point of abuse & blow any chance (remember: not YOUR decision) & 3. to not repeat mistakes in their next relationships, which seems to be a common thing here.

If we really cared about the OPs, we’d give them both sides of the coin before pushing them off the ledge. I’m personally the friend at lunch who will tell you if you have green sh*t in your teeth so you don’t embarrass yourself later... Which “friends” are you?


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[frustratedinphx]

Why should that matter?

If he didn’t love her, isn’t he then just a gold-digger with very fortunate (for him) circumstances? I’ve seen a few of you take this same attitude with WOMEN who *are* BSs in *the last week*. Just callin a spade a spade...


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[Wolfman1968]

Hi,


Ours is the classic situation where I supported her through her medical training, and she has now begun a job where her income is upwards of $40k a month before taxes. In order to support us, I sold a business. We moved, and in doing so, limited my professional opportunities. I do well in big cities, we moved to smallish ones. I currently work at a business I started online; it makes about $1,500 a month. She earns an enormous income.

OP said he “supported” her. Unless she has $0 student loans, he likely didn’t *pay for* her tuition & she has big debt. I’m guessing he paid their living expenses with his income. If school was their proverbial “children” and she took them on, now she’s returning the favor. He gets to be home while she makes the dough. She’s probably paying more now to support them than he ever did. (Just a theory)

Your chip on your shoulders seems to interfere with your ability to read what is posted and comprehend this objectively. The OP CLEARLY says he took a financial hit for the benefit of his cheating wife. He needs to be made whole.

In fact, as anyone who own/runs a business knows, it's more than just adding up the dollars lost. There is lost time with building a referral base, relationships, etc. which take a long time to rebuild. That TIME can never really be recovered. His situation is very different than someone who is just paid an hourly wage.

You seemed to be so obsessed with knocking down the OP and those that support him that you are unable to assess the situation objectively.

 

[Wolfman1968]

Not really looking for / expecting long term support. I am 39 and CAN work again; actually have some decent connections and all that, and I am sure a Court will look and go "this guy can work", which would be accurate. I am not interested in being taken care of for the rest of my life, but I would like to get restored to where I was before we switched directions for her career. Basically zero chance of having sex with her again. I will look into the voice recorders and private detective maybe - talking to lawyer tomorrow so we'll see what they suggest.

You are correct in that I supported us during fellowship and residency. We lived in "City A" during residency where I was doing well with my business. We moved to City B for fellowship, so I sold the business and, while in City B, paid all the rent and many of the bills, while doing all the day to day stuff you do when your partner works. Then we moved to "City C" for her job; she's a type of surgeon, not getting more specific than that. Smaller cities often have greater demand for higher skill sets and so they pay more. That's the case here. I get your point about the degree being marital asset. I also know that mathematically, her stipend would not support payment of even a modest rent, along with her student loans and other bills.

Cities B and C are smaller cities and not a place where you see the kind of jobs I have experience with. As such I started another business. It's coming along but it takes time. Post divorce I would move back to "City A." I'll see what all that really means tomorrow; like I said, not looking for a trillion dollars here, just want a bridge back to my pre-marriage life.

I appreciate all the insights and look forward to others.

If he didn’t love her, isn’t he then just a gold-digger with very fortunate (for him) circumstances? I’ve seen a few of you take this same attitude with WOMEN who *are* BSs in *the last week*. Just callin a spade a spade...


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No, you're calling a rake a spade.

On the FIRST PAGE of this thread, the OP makes CLEAR that he is just trying to be made whole for the very real monetary sacrifice he has made for his cheating wife's career. He SPECIFICALLY SAYS he just wants to be make whole.

But you're so obsessed with this male/female BS, and blinded by your own situation (as outlined in your own thread) that you cannot see this objectively. Instead you INSULT the OP by calling him a "gold digger".

 

[Wolfman1968]

First, you need to talk to your lawyer. IMMEDIATELY.
Your lawyer will give you the REAL info, especially based on your circumstances and your local/state laws.

Also, it's kind of sneaky, but you also might want to find out who the best attorneys in the area are and get a noncommittal "consultation" from each of them. Then, because of conflict of interest, they won't be able to represent your wife in the divorce proceedings.

That being said, I see a few issues with your situation. I deal with doctors and nurses every day, so I am familiar with some of the issues with medical professionals' lives.

First of all, you say you have been married only 3.5 years. That's not a long-term marriage in most jurisdictions, and you are relatively young, so I think the chance of you getting a long-term (many years) alimony is essentially zero. IF you can somehow establish that you destroyed your business in order to move to the small town where SHE can make a lot of money, then you may get some sort of rehabilitative arrangement to put you right after the sacrifice you made for HER career. However, you have to be able to clearly prove what you lost, and that it was ONLY for her professional benefit to move there.

Next, you say you supported her for her medical training, and she now earns over $40,000 per month. Now, the typical primary care doc will make about $200,000-ish (low $200k) annually in most areas, so I would speculate that she is not a primary care physician. May I ask what type of specialty/career she has? (I assume she is a physician when you say "medical training"). The reason I say this is because most specialties that earn that kind of income---plastic surgeon, orthopedic surgeon, etc.---have long training times in Residency/Fellowship, typically 5-7 years or more. That means your 3.5 year marriage began AFTER medical school, and therefore you did not pay her way to get the MD degree. In some jurisdictions, like New York, an advance degree acquired during the marriage and paid for with marital funds could be considered a marital asset, and you would therefore possibly be entitled to some of that future earning power. However, since post-MD training does NOT involve any tuition payments, and actually the trainee is PAID a stipend during the training (very low, considering the hours worked/degree of responsibility & training required, but still gets paid), the ability to claim a marital asset would therefore not be present. After all, Resident trainees are able to live on their own just on their stipend if they are single, so the argument that you had to sell your business to support yourselves will not be strong. Instead, it could just be argued that you were living beyond your means during those years and selling your business was just to support an excessive lifestyle, NOT to educate her in her profession. Your lawyer would be able to help you work out these details.

The exception to the paragraph above would be if her training period was short (the shortest Residencies in the US 3 years, which would be something like Family Practice); even at that, your 3.5 year marriage would mean that you would only be married for the last 6 months of medical school. That would be a hard sell to argue that you paid for her education, unless there was some sort of arrangement BEFORE marriage. However, as I said above, virtually no medical specialty leads to a position paying $40,000 per month with only 3 years of residency. What specialty is she in? The answer might impact your situation. You attorney will help you work this out.

Your best shot here is to somehow establish that you lost your business for her benefit, and get some compensation for that. With the details you provided so far, though, that might be an uphill battle. Again, you really need that attorney NOW.

You’re right. I didn’t educate myself. I said, “I’m not aware...” It sounds like this is far from the norm from all the other states. If you strive for accuracy, YOU should have paid better attention to what you shared. YOUR article stated: “17 years is the legal duration to presume permanent alimony liability in that jurisdiction”.

A. It doesn’t apply to FG’s 3.5yr marriage. B. FL is one of only 7 states with permanent alimony & C. As far as adultery goes, “Courts are most likely to take adultery into account when one spouse's affair caused the other financial harm. For example, if one spouse bought lavish gifts for a paramour using marital funds, the court might factor that into the alimony award.”

None of your “advice” applies to FG. What was the point of your whistle-blowing mission anyway?


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And, for what it's worth, I'm FULLY AWARE of how long the OP's marriage is. In fact, I REPEATEDLY state the duration on my first post to the OP on this thread, as shown above. My post to which you responded was, as I said, to correct YOU. I included the 17 years (WITH SUPPORTING LINKS) to specifically show one state---Florida, where the OP lived---which refuted your erroneous statement implying no permanent alimony ANYWHERE. If your erroneous statement was left standing, then OTHER readers (possibly who would fall in the time frame) would potentially end up misdirected by your careless post.

It looks like YOU need to pay better attention.

 

[Rubix Cubed]

A misandrist sees misogyny under every rock, behind every tree and in every thread.

 

[the guy]

A misandrist sees misogyny under every rock, behind every tree and in every thread.

I don't get it?

 

[Rubix Cubed]

I don't get it?

I'm sorry to hear that.
It will likely become clear if it hasn't already after reading back a few posts.

 

[frustratedinphx]

I hope he takes her for everything she has. It will be her just deserts.

So how do you think he should feel. I mean we all know women that take a cheating husband to the cleaners...



Why should he not do the same thing...

I would take her for us much as you can. My reasoning for it would be that your a victim. She used you for your funds to help her through schooling. She used your stability to get her through med school.

C

I don't think you read the thread ... his wife qualifies as a con-artist and, money is what she conned him out of ... probably well into the 6 figures range.

No, you're calling a rake a spade.

On the FIRST PAGE of this thread, the OP makes CLEAR that he is just trying to be made whole for the very real monetary sacrifice he has made for his cheating wife's career. He SPECIFICALLY SAYS he just wants to be make whole.

But you're so obsessed with this male/female BS, and blinded by your own situation (as outlined in your own thread) that you cannot see this objectively. Instead you INSULT the OP by calling him a "gold digger".

You’re right. Maybe FG’s not a gold-digger, but several of you are. I’m not for any man or woman taking their spouse to the cleaners out of spite. To be made whole? Absolutely.

I’ve been a small business owner for almost 14 years & know the value of “blue sky”. Thanks. I’m contemplating a move to make my life better that would involve giving some up- ironically to FL. Impossible? No. Challenging? Certainly.

I’m not aware of any court in recent times offering support for any longer than half the marriage term.

If you have to take my statement that far out of context & find a seldom-applicable alimony award that only exists in 7/50 states & is so unpopular that its demise is the sole cause of advocacy groups to *suit your argument*, you start to look biased & desperate. Is your goal “to warn the rest of TAM” (who’ll seek advice from an attorney anyway) or pile it on me? Be honest with yourself.

Go back & read what I wrote or I’ll sum it up again for you:
1. NO ONE cares who cheated- not the courts, family, friends, employers. Some sooner than others.
2. Good people do bad things. I’m not saying OP’s wife or OP are bad or good, but YOU DON’T KNOW & never really will.
3. You can’t undo things you say or do. These things cause damage. Taking the high road isn’t for chumps (the “high road” isn’t about $).
4. Anyone jilted by a WS is best served by getting help for their injuries & moving on, fast. Dragging lots of sh*t through the courts only burns lots of money. If money is your cause, don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.

I’m out of this “bitter, divorced men’s group” thread. “Good riddens” I’m sure you’re thinking. OP- Hope you get the satisfaction you want. The rest of you (bitter ones)... no words.



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[Tatsuhiko]

“Good riddens” I’m sure you’re thinking.

For those of you who didn't catch it, this is a dig at how uneducated you are, since you probably don't even know how to spell "riddance".

We should feel honored, however briefly, to have one of the elite among us. You see, you guys are so wrong that she's compelled to denigrate you. but make no mistake, it's you who are looking "biased and desperate", not her. She'll take her marbles and go home now. That'll teach you yokels.

 

[23cm]

You’re right. Maybe FG’s not a gold-digger, but several of you are. I’m not for any man or woman taking their spouse to the cleaners out of spite. To be made whole? Absolutely.

I’m out of this “bitter, divorced men’s group” thread. “Good riddens” I’m sure you’re thinking. OP- Hope you get the satisfaction you want. The rest of you (bitter ones)... no words.




Sorry your butt hurts.

 

[the guy]

Sorry for the thread jack....but

I can't spell so please spell it out.


Seriously I don't even know what misadrist or misgnyo even means


Come on RC you know me...I'm from redneckistan and need a little help.

T/J over.

What's denigrate mean?

 

[BluesPower]

I’ll be honest, I don’t see many of you guys defending women in the “take ‘em for all they’re worth...” argument. Many BSs seem genuinely horrified about their betrayal. They mourn the loss of the relationship & of the person they thought they loved. I don’t see that in FG. It went straight to money. FTR- this is the 3rd or 4th time I’ve said this & y’all seem to gloss right over it. Speaking of BSs, remember *I’M ONE TOO*, so I don’t get the double-standard.

What you don't seem to get is that there are people that refuse to put up with infidelity, not matter what.

Unlike you and your husband, FG knew that reconciliation was never an option.

For the record, I advise everyone to take the cheater to the cleaners, male of female, however, most males get taken to the cleaners no matter who cheated.

 

[Decorum]

I’m out of this “bitter, divorced men’s group” thread. “Good riddens” I’m sure you’re thinking. OP- Hope you get the satisfaction you want. The rest of you (bitter ones)... no words.
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Oh Bother!

Well I tried.

 

[barbados]

Well I tried.

Yes you did. and quite eloquently I thought.

She has been doing nothing but flaming everyone since she got back here.

 

[BluesPower]

Yes you did. and quite eloquently I thought.

She has been doing nothing but flaming everyone since she got back here.

She cannot accept that she is a POS for cheating on her husband for 5 years. She just will not accept that she is just as bad if not worse that he is.

Of course HE is abusive, and you know maybe he is, but then as a business owner for 14 years she surely must have to money to divorce him, but she lacks the courage to do that.

But above all, she will never take responsibility for the things that she has done in her marriage, because really, she was justified and entitled.

What would it be like guys to be married to a woman like this?

It sounds horrific to me...

 

[Idyit]

I’m out of this “bitter, divorced men’s group” thread. “Good riddens” I’m sure you’re thinking. OP- Hope you get the satisfaction you want. The rest of you (bitter ones)... no words.
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Haha. Two of the "take Em to the cleaners" quotes you cited were from women

 

[Wolfman1968]

If you have to take my statement that far out of context & find a seldom-applicable alimony award that only exists in 7/50 states & is so unpopular that its demise is the sole cause of advocacy groups to *suit your argument*, you start to look biased & desperate. Is your goal “to warn the rest of TAM” (who’ll seek advice from an attorney anyway) or pile it on me? Be honest with yourself.

I am honest with myself, but you aren't. Permanent is not "seldom used' if you live in one of that states that has it; and Florida and New Jersey are among the most populated states in the country, so it affects a lot of people. Furthermore, even without permanent alimony, in California, for example, marriages over 10 years still remain under the jurisdiction of the court, and are subject to modifications years later; so the specter of ongoing responsibility continues indefinitely.

Why can't you just admit you were wrong and leave it, instead of going through contortions to minimize your misstatements and attempt to tar others.

Go back & read what I wrote or I’ll sum it up again for you:
1. NO ONE cares who cheated- not the courts, family, friends, employers. Some sooner than others.
2. Good people do bad things. I’m not saying OP’s wife or OP are bad or good, but YOU DON’T KNOW & never really will.
3. You can’t undo things you say or do. These things cause damage. Taking the high road isn’t for chumps (the “high road” isn’t about $).
4. Anyone jilted by a WS is best served by getting help for their injuries & moving on, fast. Dragging lots of sh*t through the courts only burns lots of money. If money is your cause, don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.

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And the OP is the poster child for a quick, clean divorce with ONLY trying to get himself back to where he was before he trashed his business for his wife's benefit. Yet you persist in insinuating he is a gold-digger (until the very last post). If you had bothered to REALLY pay attention to his posts, you should have never brought that up in the first place, because it is so insulting to him.

It's clear YOU'RE the one with the agenda here, and it can clearly be seen from your own thread.