Basically, he'll get what he gives.

Passive aggressive. Does not resolve the problem.

Have your attempted counseling together?

 

I agree. I've actually CHOSEN this approach. Mainly because I'm naturally quite confrontational and that wasn't working. Also, I got fed up being the one with the balls. Like begets like. He's PA so I can be, too. It's easier. And less work for me. Basically, I'm half given up. Or at least given up temporarily and am letting the chips fall where they may. He's told me i'm a control freak (and I am) so this is me giving him what he wants: Not being a control freak.

Yes. I've tried to convince him to go, he won't. He says couples who do that are "doomed" so I said F it and I start solo sessions soon. (Just waiting for paperwork.) He won't be happy with this.

 

I'm hearing you say that you married him because he was the strong, silent type but now you're upset because he doesn't talk...

 

Ah ha! You're right. See, this is why I'm trying to adjust MY expectations. I'm not expecting him to change. He's ALWAYS been like this and as much as I'd like for him to go back to the fluffy beginning stages in which he made more of an effort to put on a show and talk to me, I don't expect him to. I kind of feel duped. Like he put on a show for me, married me and now he feels he can relax. This is the female equivalent of not shaving and gaining weight. This is what I mean by I can't win. I'm accepting his minimal word count and taking accountability for feeling lonely. It's my fault and within my control to change. I married a PA non wordy guy. Then he pesters me all day asking what's wrong. If I tell him, we fight. So it's easier to just not talk.

 

I don't have advice, but I'm living the same reality!

I used to be very hurt by his lack of conversation and I took it as a lack of interest in me.

Now, we've been together so long that I just don't have that much to say to him on a regular basis. I mean, we see each other every single day. There's only so much that happens in the 10 hours we are away from each other each day. Most of it really isn't that interesting.

Over time, I guess I mellowed out and I've learned to live with the quiet. After a long time of getting used to the quiet, I realized this is really just who he is and he doesn't mean any harm by it.

I pick my battles with my H and decided this is not a battle I will ever "win".

The only time I ever go back to being confrontational about this particular issue is if he does not tell me something important. (For example, a bill needs to be paid immediately, or an emergency happened in the family.) Chat still happens occasionally. I am very quick to communicate that I am upset and expect different behavior the next time.

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I'm glad you've accepted your situation, it just sounds so lonely! It's not even about "winning" (although I know you didn't mean it like that) for me and it's more about compatibility and again - the fact the I feel duped.
Any advice on how you coped with the quiet? Did you ever learn to not resent him for not being better at something you need? Any input on how I can handle myself would be appreciated. I feel like I'm slipping into indifference.

 

SO, have you actually talked about this or did you talk at him?
The minute you were married did he stop engaging?
Do you dominate the topics and conversation or do you try to talk about his likes as well?
Are you covering a myriad of topics or is it the same things?

 

Oh, Lord, I have talked to and at him.
I do feel like as soon as we got married his true colours came out.
I don't think said colours are bad or anything, but they don't compliment me... They're not what I'm looking for.
Like I said, this is the female equivalent of never shaving again and gaining weight when she was attractive and well put-together in the first place and was part of why you married her.
Or you know those women who have an awesome career and a guy marries her thinking she's career driven, but suddenly she wants to be a SAHM? None of those lifestyles are bad, but they aren't what the other partner initially thought they were getting.

Yes, I've tried to let him talk or try to find his interests.
The thing is, he doesn't have any interests!
Seriously.
I've tried this thing in which I count to 60 before speaking (as not to cut him off) and I can get to like 450 before he'll say so "Um you wanna watch TV?"

He has a soccer game and I'll ask how the game went and he'll say good. If I press and press and press (which I'm tired of doing) he'll go into details about the dynamic, plays, goals, etc. but I can't push conversation anymore. I'm exhuasted. So his game will go "good" and I'll leave it at that.

 

Imo if he could make an effort to do it while dating then he could do it now. I have a feeling that OP would be quite happy if he just made a bit of effort to do it.

Conversation is a legit emotional need. We don't just give the emotional needs we want to do, we do the ones our partners want us to do for them.

I have to learn how to talk to people for my job, I don't want to but I do it. It's not that hard.

I get that you're just done. A lot of people end up in your boat when they aren't getting sex. They just stop looking for it and asking for it and it makes them happier.
Usually the happiness doesn't last long and goes back to frustration so I'd be careful to watch out for that.

 

Hmmm, my recent lover and I were like this from time to time, we also happen to be opposites in terms of introversion/extroversion. I wouldn't say I had nothing to talk about, I just didn't really have anything I wanted to share with her or there was stuff in my mind that I preferred to resolve alone. My lover was very patient however, eventually I felt bad at her talking all the time and being sweet and I made an effort to include her more into my life.

Not so sure if the whole passive aggressiveness would work, it may wake him up if the card is played once or twice, but if it's a regular thing it's just going to be problems.

 

You remind me of myself. And your relationship reminds me of mine. (Although I'm soon to be divorced). I felt like if I didn't talk, we wouldn't talk. If I didn't kiss him, and be affectionate, we would never be. I realized that I was basically in a relationship with a passive person that doesn't do anything. I grew resentful, I got lonely, he never changed and either did I.

I don't have any advice for you. But I understand how lonely it feels.

 

That would do my head in, we have constant dialogue, discussion, conversation here, hours and hours every week, it is fantastic to connect like this.

You guys remind me of "the dining dead" those couple you see out to dinner but not talking, just sitting there looking bored. Why these people bother to go out together is beyond me.

Tell me OP do you laugh together? If you aren't conversing then where would you get the material to laugh together about? We have times where we can't look at each other bc we are laughing so much. Laughing together is one of the best parts of life.

Ugh, can you live like this for the rest of your life?

 

My ex-husband was a very passive person. I wasn't. That can make for a very difficult marriage when there's little effort to compromise somewhere in the middle of the extremes. Some people learn to live with a passive spouse and some don't. I did that for decades but I wouldn't do it again.

 

My ex was a talker. In the beginning, I thought it was cute and because I'm not a talker myself, it was fine to let my ex go on and on (and on and on and on and on) because it gave me insight. It became a problem when I was expected to talk as much or share as much. It is not who I am or how I operate. Eventually the sound of my ex's voice became like a knife in my head. I stopped trying to give answers or responses that would further engage me because I didn't want a conversation to continue. My ex was terrible about taking hints and apparently my ex couldn't tolerate quiet at all, so my quietness just prompted more talking, talking, talking. It was a nightmare. I cannot tell you how grateful I am to live a peaceful and quiet life now.

 

I think your approach is good because you were feeling like he was not a willing participant in the conversation. You felt like you were interrogating. I think you should be a bit more direct, though. When he asks what is wrong, you should tell him that you know if he wants to share more with you about his day (or whatever) you trust that he will.

I think he got used to you asking questions, and I think he probably liked it because it took all the work of holding a conversation off of him.

 

So, I know you've tried talking to him about this. I'm going to suggest you give it one more shot.

Get a copy of the book His Needs, Her Needs by W. Harley, if you don't already have one. It does a nice job of explaining that men and women often have different emotional needs - and that your partner's primary emotional needs are valid even if you don't share them. Read it yourself, but also keep in on hand in case he'd like to read it too at some point. Also, make sure you're meeting his most important emotional needs - for guys, that's usually sex and recreational companionship, followed by admiration, physical attractiveness and domestic support in any order. You'll be in a much better position to get him to listen and be willing to engage with you if you're meeting his needs on a consistent basis. Clean up your side of the street, so that you know you're being a great partner, before you approach him with complaints.

Then, move on to what I would suggest be your last-ditch effort to get him to engage. Sit him down and tell him - calmly, reasonably, with little emotion beyond a mild positivity - that you have a legitimate emotional need for conversation with your spouse. People can have different needs, but they usually marry the person they've found that meets their primary emotional needs. People fall in love by meeting those needs for one another. When you two dated, he was meeting your need for conversation, and that's part of why you fell in love and wanted to marry him. But after you married, he seemed to become much less interested in meeting that need for you, and it's making it really hard for you to stay in love with him. I would then say, very directly, "This need, for me, is every bit as important as your need for sex is for you. I know that when we don't have sex it's hard for you to feel in love with me and want to meet my needs. Well, when we don't have any conversation, I feel distant from you and it's hard for me to feel in love and want to have sex with you. That you have stopped having conversations with me makes me not want to have sex with you. I'd like to ask you to think about what we can do, as a team, to make our marriage better for both of us. I don't want to do it now, because I want us both to really think about it and discuss this again after that. Let me know when you're ready to talk again about some options for getting us back on track." If his top need isn't sex, obviously change that portion, but do be very direct. You might also suggest he read His Needs, Her Needs, if he's interested, but don't insist or demand that he do.

At that point, give him a quick hug/kiss, and hop up to go do something else. The conversation is over for now. Don't get bogged down in an argument or even an intense discussion at that point. Say your peace and then give him time and space to think over what you've said. But he does need to hear a very direct correlation between the lack of conversation and your lack of willingness to keep meeting his needs: 'When you don't talk to me, I don't want to [meet your top need].'

Be patient. If weeks go by and he hasn't brought it up again, and hasn't increased the level of conversational engagement with you, then I think it's probably safe to say that he's just not interested enough in keeping you happy to make any changes. At that point, you can ask him directly if he's interested in making your marriage better for both of you. If he's not, then you will have to decide if this is a marriage you can live with over the long term, or if you'd be better off on your own to find someone who wants a more reciprocal partnership.

 

This was a great response, thank you! I really appreciate the practical and step-by-step advice.

I have one question, though: What if he IS trying and failing? I've had a similar conversation with him about needs and he was genuinely perplexed that mine wasn't being met. Last night we talked about it again and he honestly thought asking me FIRST (I usually beat him to it as the talker) how my day was was satisfying this need. So, I want to give him credit for actively making an effort, but it was still the same "Good" conversation.

 

@UnicornCupcake

You are both very POOR at communicating. You may "talk a lot" but clearly it's nothing of substance.

Rather than signals, overtures, winks, nods and expecting him to understand. You need to be DIRECT.

If he keeps asking you what's wrong, THEN HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND your grievances with him obviously.

If it's because he's slow, stupid or "a man" then whatever. You need to find a DIFFERENT way to communicate.

 

@UnicornCupcake

You are both very POOR at communicating. You may "talk a lot" but clearly it's nothing of substance.

Rather than signals, overtures, winks, nods and expecting him to understand. You need to be DIRECT.

If he keeps asking you what's wrong, THEN HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND your grievances with him obviously.

If it's because he's slow, stupid or "a man" then whatever. You need to find a more transparent way to communicate.

 

I AM direct. I'm so direct it's painful. Then he accuses me of being bossy because I will say verbatim: I want this. Do this like that. Thank you. I'm telling you, I can't win.

We're currently fighting over meals. Seriously. I value being a healthy eater and not spending a lot of money outside sources (fast-food) and he does not. He'll SAY he does, but he'll physically go eat McDonald's whereas you can't pay me to go there. His actions do not line up with his words. I think he WANTS to be like "me," (from a health promotion perspective) but he's not sure how to do it unless I lead him. I'll lead him and he'll fight me on the way. This goes back to his upbringing. He'll be mad at me for ****ting on the way they lived. (His mother lived on KFC and so did the whole family.) One day, he'll admit they lived on that stuff the other his in denial and he hates me for wanting to be "better" than them. Now that I'm working a lot off evenings, I invested in a health meal service. It's cheap and costs about half in comparison to eating out everyday, but he says he doesn't like the food. He wants to be healthy, but then he'll **** on me for organzing it.

 

So there are quite a few well meaning folks on here that are telling you that your H is not going to change and that you need to change your needs if you are to be happy and for the marriage to survive. That might very well be true but I am living proof that if you dont give up and you learn to communicate better with him (and him with you) that changes on both sides CAN be made. In order to do that though HE has to realize there is an issue and HE has to be the one that wants to change it.You can't make him do anything unfortunately.

I wish I could tell you what it was about the conversation that my wife and I had that made the light bulb turn on for me. I honestly dont remember it being a particular thing but I do remember that it took years of us talking about it for me to get it. The real messed up thing about those couple years, I didn't realize that I wasn't giving her what she needed in the relationship. I thought I was doing good. It wasn't a conscious choice to leave her wanting, for some reason I just didn't make the connection. Something about what she said just made me realize how disconnected I was from her and I finally got it. Perhaps she wasn't being 100% clear, perhaps I wan't listening well enough, who knows... my point.. dont stop talking!! But make sure it comes from a place of love and not anger, which is very difficult given your frustration.

I see this as the equivalent of a wife not giving it up anymore. We need sex, you need the relationship. A man can't expect his wife to keep providing what he needs if he isn't providing what she needs and vice versa of course. I dont think any of what you are expecting from him is outrageous at all.

 

I'll present it to hin like this and see what he says. I think you're right. It'st he equivalent of a wife withholding sex.

 

Don't be too controlling. He is going to tell you what you want to hear, but do what he wants.

 

You are trying to control his diet? No wonder you two are arguing. He is your husband, not your son. I have been married over 30 years. After all this time, my husband and I are not on the same page regarding health, but I cannot make him see things my way or want to do things my way. That's just rude. Eat what you eat. Ignore what he eats. You are stressing over things you do not and should not have any control over.

Stop entering into arguments with your husband. Arguments are adversarial. You two are supposed to have each other's backs 100%. It sounds like you want to control certain things in his life. How would you like it is he tried to make you eat KFC or McDonald's? He insisted that it was a more efficient way of eating and he felt you were wasting time and energy on overthinking your food choices? Would that annoy you? It would sure annoy me if my husband started that with me.

Being angry with him doesn't do you any good. Seeing him through loving eyes and wanting to come to unity wherever possible while supporting and loving each other is what marriage is for. If you two plan to have children, it will only get worse, because you won't be on the same page in raising your children. The idea is to work for unity rather than focusing on areas of division and trying to get your husband to see and do it your way.

 

I am not trying to control his diet, lol. He knew from the get GO I live a healthy lifestyle and I expect the same in return from my partner. He AGREED. He's very active physically and he's BLESSED with a metabolism people would kill for, BUT he doesn't seem to understand future children may not have that same metabolism. His nephew is already getting picked on school for being overweight and he agrees (verbally) that it's his sister's fault for literally letting the kid live off of McDonald's. Also, it's our MONEY and I won't have it wasted on fast-food. These were expectations I made VERY clear from the get-go and we stopped eating with his family because of their unhealthy ways. Then his mother died and food is literally the only thing that can get them all together.

Honest question: Are you attracted to your husband? It's OK for YOUR dynamic if you are accepting of his healthy (or non healthy) ways, but it's not for me. It's too important to me.

I do have to work on this anger, though...

 

Did you want a husband or did you want

 

How old are you? What is that contraption, lol? I get it was meant to be funny but I have no idea WTF that it, lol. Is it an ancient prototype of a blow horn? A record player? I'ven ever seen a record player (not even in the old movies, lol) with a tuba sticking out of them...

 

When a quiet person marries an A personality, the quiet person starts becoming even MORE quiet, as they start to realize how things are going to go. Honestly, I think you'll be divorced within two years.

 

This is what I observed in my own marriage, I felt all of those frustrating feelings that the OP feels, and eventually I just shut up. That was years ago. This thread isn't even about me and I triggered when reading this because it cut deep.

All of the things I thought made me, well...ME, became things I questioned once I realized this dynamic was going on. I dialed myself way back. Way way back. My husband seems to be coming out of his shell a bit more now that I am not the dominating force in the relationship, and I am trying to learn to choose what is "marriage worthy" and what can be either kept to myself or told to a friend later. I know that sounds awful to someone who has a large need for intimate conversation.

I had two things going against me that I will freely admit. One, I grew up in a house where we were very blunt in our manner of speaking, and I developed a thick skin because of it. I also adopted that way of speaking myself. I did not understand that other people might find that style of speaking offensive. It made me seem harsh and mean. Two, I did not understand that some people do not find intimate conversation natural. It came to me with ease, and I find that if I can just talk it out, I feel such a sense of relief. Where others, such as my husband, find the act of just starting a deep conversation physically uncomfortable.

Funny thing is...we both came from parents who are rather judgmental and critical. But we developed into two different personalities from it. Mine is much more brash and "who cares what you think!", where his is much more about shrinking back and avoiding sharing any details about yourself lest they draw criticism.

When people say their spouse is their "best friend", I think to myself- no; he's my husband. My best friend (girl) and I can talk about anything and nothing for hours, and while I cannot share that specific part of friendship with my husband, the bond he and I have is different. Deeper. More visceral than any conversation could be. Once I became quiet, and got over the mountain of being butthurt about it (and boy was I swimming in resentment!), I was able to achieve a different perspective on it. I think of it now as a period of meditation. My new perspective was where I decided that if I had to dial back this "need" of mine, that I was willing to do that because he still brought so much joy to my life ...even if that life was quieter than I'd imagined. He is still an overwhelmingly positive force in my life.

It wasn't until I shed the layer of resentment that I was able to say that, though. There was a time where I was angry and all I could see were the negatives.

I think every marriage has a pros and cons list. I look at it as the sum of the whole. As long as the pros list outnumbers the cons, I'm good. When I think of my husband with clarity (read: without resentment clouding my view) I can rattle off a long list of pros, and only a few cons...one of which is this issue of quietness.

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I think this is a problem for many marriages in that we women connect through talking, men do not connect through talking but by action (e.g. working on the car, playing golf, etc). Women can meet their friends and just natter on because that is how they engage.
My H is the same, if it is about his work, etc then he can talk but after some time of me talking and can actually see him zoning out, so many years ago I just gave up. I didn't bother to ask nor tell him anything, of course in the long run I ended emotionally unfulfilled but got that from my friends instead. In fact, I could say my H knows very little about my life, as I do not share it, I know more about his I think.

Read about the differences in men and women in this regard. It can be a huge stumbling block because a woman feels rejected when she is not being listened to.

 

Did your approach work for you? From a reader's perspective it sounds quite lonely, . Doesn't he care that he doesn't really know anything about your life? My husband is at least upset when I "spring" something on him. (Something I chose not to talk to him about because I feel like he doesn't want to participate.) So, it makes me wonder if he really DOES care about what I'm talking about...

I do talk to my friends quite a bit, but I've put some distance between me and my BFF recently. Her life is just headed in a totally different direction than mine and I'm not sure if I fit or if she fits so I haven't talked to her much. Maybe it's time for me to spend time with other friends...

 

Is he an introvert in general? Nothing annoys me more than people talking while I'm getting my alone time re-charging.

I need quiet time when I get home from anywhere. Just quiet. Don't speak to me. A bit of that and I'm good. Then I need more quiet time before bed.