[karole]

Man up and kick her to the curb!

 

[BigDaddyNY]

She had a full blown affair with this guy in her previous marriage, and yet you think them taking a vacation together recently was him in a separate room?

I know right!? That level of self delusion has to be a defense mechanism, because it defies all logic.

 

[Mybabysgotit]

, I have this info, and I have not yet confronted my wife (it's been almost 3 months since my discovery). We had stopped counselling because I was laid off work right at the time of that last terrible session. I wanted to talk to her with our couples counsellor, as I don't trust how she will react - she will probably freak out at my digging through her text messages (I knew her password) then finding the photos in her office (which were from her first affair with him exclusively)

If you're worried about her freaking out cause you caught her, then you might as well try and sweep it under the rug. Maybe beg her not to do it again and hope for the best. If you cry a little, that really helps in making her feel guilty

 

[oldshirt]

I’ll tell you what Chumplady always preaches on her podcasts and articles - “Is this acceptable to YOU and is this the marriage/relationship you want to be in?”

In other words, you do not have to prove to her that she’s cheating - she already knows what she’s doing.

You don’t have to justify or qualify anything to us here. This is your life and your marriage. Is this acceptable to YOU and how YOU want to live and is this the kind of person you want to be married to?

Do you want to be a detective and a prison warden policing her to keep her out of other men’s beds?

What is acceptable to you?

 

[bobert]

There just seems to be so many BH's that fall into this category. Sometimes I wonder what they come here looking for when you just know they won't take anyone's advice to extricate themselves from the abuse. Its depressing really.

They may come here in shock, scared, and hanging onto the last threads of the life they build. They may be looking for hope, reassurance, or even just permission to act. They may never have stood up to their wife (or anyone) or over the years retreated to conflict avoidance, so the idea of drawing a line feels impossible. They may come here thinking they are ready to take action, but once dozens of people confirm their worst fears or push them to pull the trigger, the reality hits and causes them to retreat. They don't necessarily want to blow everything up - they may want someone to tell them there's still a path to fix things, and most here won't say that. It's brutal to accept that your wife, the person you trusted most, is the one betraying you. Walking away can feel like admitting defeat, and for many it triggers fears of losing kids, finances, stability, identity, etc.

So instead of action, you see paralysis.

They'll vent, they'll ask what to do, but when it comes time to stand up for themselves, they "can't do it" - the fear outweighs the pain they're already in. Sometimes they don't even want to act - they just want to FEEL like they're doing something. Posting, venting, and asking questions scratches that itch. It gives the illusion of progress while avoiding the consequences - divorce, splitting assets, custody battles, financial hardships, and facing the reality that their wife isn't who they thought she was. Misery, as awful as it is, can feel safer than the unknown.

You can call that weakness or stupidity - and sometimes it is - but the weight of grief, fear, and uncertainty is very real. It can explain the paralysis, though it doesn't excuse staying stuck forever.

Meanwhile, the wife sees it. She knows the BH won't leave. She knows he'll bark (or whimper) but won't bite. So the lies and cheating continue, because why would she change? By refusing to draw a hard line, the BH teaches her there are no consequences. And let's be honest, if it was truly a mistake as they all say, the WW wouldn't need her BH to force her to change - she would do that on her own.

The hard truth is that not taking action isn't just passive - it's volunteering to be lied to, cheated on, used, and disrespected. You can't outsource self-respect to a forum. At some point, you either enforce your boundaries, or you accept that you've chosen doormat status.

 

[QuietRiot]

My debate: do I admit that I read her text messages and saw photographs when I confront her? Maybe just admit to the photographs? My reason for snooping, after all, was because I knew something was amiss when she refused me access to the phone bill account (which would have proven communication between them). I am nervous as hell to bring this up. She has agreed to a couples counselling session in a couple of weeks to talk about what is bothering me.

Sorry for the long story. Interested in peoples thoughts on that last paragraph.

I am sorry that you are hurting so much that you can’t bear the thought of leaving her. But at the very least, please live in reality.

You have 20+ years of historical data in text, and pictures and lies that show you who this person is, it just seems that you don’t want to accept that data and would rather have her tell you differently (and she most certainly will do that), knowing you can’t believe it. Which is kind of crazy no?

Why do you need more deception to feel better? If you simply accept who she is, who she has shown herself to be…then you can make decisions without being “nervous as hell” because she has no bearing on your choice.

Stay married and know this is who she is, or leave and start a life where you only accept people whose actions and words align. At this point this is her personality, not some affair that she got caught up in. Her whole life has been canoodling with this man and lying through her teeth about it. Why in the world do you think you can or even want to change that?

 

[manwithnoname]

She had a full blown affair with this guy in her previous marriage, and yet you think them taking a vacation together recently was him in a separate room?

Your wife has been cheating on you for the duration of the relationship.

Everything she has done is a lie.

You are not close to the real her, she is manipulating you.

You need to have some self-respect and leave.

She will be with the man she really loves immediately. Let her go.

She's spent the majority of her life cheating, she won't stop.

I don’t doubt he had a separate room, but odds are strong they ****ed in both rooms……

 

[mcmike]

Exactly. That's why you cannot tell her what you know, because if you do, she will only admit to that. And the moment she gets angry and wants to know what you know, that's proof that she has no intention of telling you everything.

The thing is though, what are you going to do with that information? You need to think about your endgame before you confront her. Do you want complete honesty so youcan forgive and rebuild, or do you need it to decide whether you want to stay or not? Knowing your WHY will help you stay steady in the conversation. And if (and likely when) she lies again, what will you do? Are you able to hold her accountable, and if so, what does that look like to you?

Whatever you say to her, you need to be ready to follow through with it.

I would simply tell her, "I know that you lied about the affair. You have ONE chance to give me all of the details, or this marriage is over".



No, don't do this. You don't want to let her know what you have, or how you found it. Do not give her ANY hints for what you found or what you know (the length, the type, the mementos - nothing!).


Why do you think she's done with him? She's hiding her phone and call records for a reason. What is she hiding? What are the texts that you found?

I can promise you that she is not done with him. Speaking from experience, she wouldn't have kept those photos if she was. She kept them because at minimum, she is still emotionally attached to him. If she had an affair with him prior to meeting you, and after you, and they've had the ability to contact each other all this time (even off and on), she has possibly been in the affair the whole time. It may have paused or slowed down at times, but it doesn't change where her heart was.



Editing to add:
You don't have any reason to believe their communication carried on after late-2023, yet she's hiding her call/text records and protects them to the point that she panicked and stormed out of MC? That's NOT normal.

And if she really felt so guilty, that it was a mistake, and wished she could erase it, why did she keep the pictures? The ONE part she could potentially erase. Let alone keep them in a seemingly easily accessibly spot for her to view? Her words do not match her actions, at all.

That email doesn't mean diddly. She could easily have talked to him FIRST, planned it out, then sent the email. Or sent the email, then reached out later. You also should have been a part of it, were you?


I understand being nervous to hear news like this, but is that what you're nervous about? Or are you scared of HER?

Either way, if you're going to drop this bomb in MC, make sure you warn the MC ahead of time...

I appreciate all the words of advice here. To add a bit more context, I'm confident she is done with him because I have snooped on her phone and computer: no evidence anywhere of any communication - calls, text, what's app, email, etc. I've checked numerous times, and nothing. I've searched for photos, also nothing. Hidden folders, you name it.
As for the (final good riddance) email to him, I was part of that exercise. It was something discussed in counselling, and we went home right afterwards and sent it.
I think the actual reason she didn't want me to see the phone records is because of timing: she told me it transpired as a result of her father dying, which was in June 2023. Her texts/calls would surely show it started long before. I saw the texts, and they literally started in mid 2022 when he told her his wife died. Their communication got inappropriate by late 2022, so I'm sure that is the thing she wants to hide. I don't believe there has been any further communication since I found out (Oct 2023).
My end game: to get her to admit to all of it and come clean. If she refuses to come clean, that will likely be the end of us. If she can show genuine remorse and full honesty, and a willingness to continue with the counselling, I'm content to continue working on us.
I do appreciate the advice!

 

[bobert]

I appreciate all the words of advice here. To add a bit more context, I'm confident she is done with him because I have snooped on her phone and computer: no evidence anywhere of any communication - calls, text, what's app, email, etc. I've checked numerous times, and nothing. I've searched for photos, also nothing. Hidden folders, you name it.
As for the (final good riddance) email to him, I was part of that exercise. It was something discussed in counselling, and we went home right afterwards and sent it.
I think the actual reason she didn't want me to see the phone records is because of timing: she told me it transpired as a result of her father dying, which was in June 2023. Her texts/calls would surely show it started long before. I saw the texts, and they literally started in mid 2022 when he told her his wife died. Their communication got inappropriate by late 2022, so I'm sure that is the thing she wants to hide. I don't believe there has been any further communication since I found out (Oct 2023).
My end game: to get her to admit to all of it and come clean. If she refuses to come clean, that will likely be the end of us. If she can show genuine remorse and full honesty, and a willingness to continue with the counselling, I'm content to continue working on us.
I do appreciate the advice!

Have you been locked out of the account since 2023? And for all of the telecommunications companies that I'm familiar with, the online billing only goes back about 18 months. So why would she feel the need to hide things that wouldn't show up?

You need to get access to that before you talk to her.

 

[mcmike]

Exactly. That's why you cannot tell her what you know, because if you do, she will only admit to that. And the moment she gets angry and wants to know what you know, that's proof that she has no intention of telling you everything.

The thing is though, what are you going to do with that information? You need to think about your endgame before you confront her. Do you want complete honesty so youcan forgive and rebuild, or do you need it to decide whether you want to stay or not? Knowing your WHY will help you stay steady in the conversation. And if (and likely when) she lies again, what will you do? Are you able to hold her accountable, and if so, what does that look like to you?

Whatever you say to her, you need to be ready to follow through with it.

I would simply tell her, "I know that you lied about the affair. You have ONE chance to give me all of the details, or this marriage is over".



No, don't do this. You don't want to let her know what you have, or how you found it. Do not give her ANY hints for what you found or what you know (the length, the type, the mementos - nothing!).


Why do you think she's done with him? She's hiding her phone and call records for a reason. What is she hiding? What are the texts that you found?

I can promise you that she is not done with him. Speaking from experience, she wouldn't have kept those photos if she was. She kept them because at minimum, she is still emotionally attached to him. If she had an affair with him prior to meeting you, and after you, and they've had the ability to contact each other all this time (even off and on), she has possibly been in the affair the whole time. It may have paused or slowed down at times, but it doesn't change where her heart was.



Editing to add:
You don't have any reason to believe their communication carried on after late-2023, yet she's hiding her call/text records and protects them to the point that she panicked and stormed out of MC? That's NOT normal.

And if she really felt so guilty, that it was a mistake, and wished she could erase it, why did she keep the pictures? The ONE part she could potentially erase. Let alone keep them in a seemingly easily accessibly spot for her to view? Her words do not match her actions, at all.

That email doesn't mean diddly. She could easily have talked to him FIRST, planned it out, then sent the email. Or sent the email, then reached out later. You also should have been a part of it, were you?


I understand being nervous to hear news like this, but is that what you're nervous about? Or are you scared of HER?

Either way, if you're going to drop this bomb in MC, make sure you warn the MC ahead of time...

I appreciate the advice bobert. To add a bit more context, the reason I don't think she is still in any communication with him is because I have snooped extensively on her phone and computer. No calls/texts/whatsapp or anything I could find. No photos sent, hidden folders, you name it.
As for the (no further communication ever) email she sent, that was something we decided in counselling, and I was indeed a part of it. She composed it right after our session with me present and sent it. Again, I've checked her email for any communication since then, there has been none.
The reason I think she was hiding the cell phone info is most certainly related to timelines. I genuinely think she had nothing to do with him until his wife died in 2022. That's when they started chatting (I literally went to the start of their text exchanges) and it started to look a bit inappropriate by late 2022, and by the start of 2023 totally inappropriate but always platonic: just flirty crap, consistent with an emotional affair. Her story to me is that they started an emotional affair after the death of her father (June 2023) and I found out about them in Oct 2023. So I genuinely thought it was newer than it really was. I can tell by the messages it was just flirtatious in the texts, no evidence they even saw each other. The phone records will prove it started earlier than she said.
Again, I do appreciate your thoughts!

 

[DudeInProgress]

I appreciate all the words of advice here. To add a bit more context, I'm confident she is done with him because I have snooped on her phone and computer: no evidence anywhere of any communication - calls, text, what's app, email, etc. I've checked numerous times, and nothing. I've searched for photos, also nothing. Hidden folders, you name it.
As for the (final good riddance) email to him, I was part of that exercise. It was something discussed in counselling, and we went home right afterwards and sent it.
I think the actual reason she didn't want me to see the phone records is because of timing: she told me it transpired as a result of her father dying, which was in June 2023. Her texts/calls would surely show it started long before. I saw the texts, and they literally started in mid 2022 when he told her his wife died. Their communication got inappropriate by late 2022, so I'm sure that is the thing she wants to hide. I don't believe there has been any further communication since I found out (Oct 2023).
My end game: to get her to admit to all of it and come clean. If she refuses to come clean, that will likely be the end of us. If she can show genuine remorse and full honesty, and a willingness to continue with the counselling, I'm content to continue working on us.
I do appreciate the advice!

You’re still not addressing Jamaica, and the extreme likelihood she gave herself to him physically and they had sex. Are you still refusing to face this reality?

So basically, you’re willing to accept all the lying, deception, disrespect and deep betrayal, including the extremely high (almost certain) likelihood that she had sex with him in Jamaica - as long as she (finally) comes clean now, shows remorse and continues counseling?

And how will you know if she really fully comes clean and admits everything in full honesty? The only way to confirm is to insist on a polygraph to confirm her final story. Which is easy to arrange, but are you willing to require it as a condition of reconciliation?

 

[QuietRiot]

I appreciate all the words of advice here. To add a bit more context, I'm confident she is done with him because I have snooped on her phone and computer: no evidence anywhere of any communication - calls, text, what's app, email, etc. I've checked numerous times, and nothing. I've searched for photos, also nothing. Hidden folders, you name it.
As for the (final good riddance) email to him, I was part of that exercise. It was something discussed in counselling, and we went home right afterwards and sent it.
I think the actual reason she didn't want me to see the phone records is because of timing: she told me it transpired as a result of her father dying, which was in June 2023. Her texts/calls would surely show it started long before. I saw the texts, and they literally started in mid 2022 when he told her his wife died. Their communication got inappropriate by late 2022, so I'm sure that is the thing she wants to hide. I don't believe there has been any further communication since I found out (Oct 2023).
My end game: to get her to admit to all of it and come clean. If she refuses to come clean, that will likely be the end of us. If she can show genuine remorse and full honesty, and a willingness to continue with the counselling, I'm content to continue working on us.
I do appreciate the advice!

Yeah totally done with him…except she went many years in between her last trysts with him correct?

Your endgame is to compel her to do things that she does not want to do. You want her to suddenly grow some remorse and honesty as though they are plants that can be fertilized by you compelling it to be. Yikes.

It will go like this: “How dare you snoop through my pics and texts, you’re so controlling/nosey/dramatic.” Will then become, “Oh I just didn’t want to hurt you further, I forgot all about those. It all means nothing. I was protecting YOU from something that means nothing to me.” And then it’ll be “It’s just time to move forward, this is all in the past.” And there will be no remorse (there will be some pretend remorse though). But hey, your life, and heart, and health, and emotional wellbeing. Good luck.

 

[Mr.Married]

Weak men accept weak results and answers. You have accepted being walked on in every way possible. It’s no wonder she is hot for the other guy.

 

[mcmike]

Have you been locked out of the account since 2023? And for all of the telecommunications companies that I'm familiar with, the online billing only goes back about 18 months. So why would she feel the need to hide things that wouldn't show up?

You need to get access to that before you talk to her.

No, past invoices go back quite a ways and I have never had access since we moved in together 20 years ago.

 

[mcmike]

Weak men accept weak results and answers. You have accepted being walked on in every way possible. It’s no wonder she is hot for the other guy.

No need to be a jerk.

 

[bobert]

No, past invoices go back quite a ways and I have never had access since we moved in together 20 years ago.

...why do you think that is?

And how do you know how far back the online billing goes if you haven't accessed it in 20+ years? If you're in Canada like your location says, every provider in Canada goes back 18 months, with the exception of one that goes back 36 months. That wouldn't explain her withholding access to the phone bill for 20 years.

 

[mcmike]

like this: “Ho

 

[mcmike]

You’re still not addressing Jamaica, and the extreme likelihood she gave herself to him physically and they had sex. Are you still refusing to face this reality?

So basically, you’re willing to accept all the lying, deception, disrespect and deep betrayal, including the extremely high (almost certain) likelihood that she had sex with him in Jamaica - as long as she (finally) comes clean now, shows remorse and continues counseling?

And how will you know if she really fully comes clean and admits everything in full honesty? The only way to confirm is to insist on a polygraph to confirm her final story. Which is easy to arrange, but are you willing to require it as a condition of reconciliation?

I think I've come to terms of the fact she likely did sleep with him in Jamaica. I've had 2 years to think about that one, so whether she did or did not will not be the thing that makes me leave her. Being dishonest and/or not showing remorse will. As for the polygraph, I'll think about that one. Only if I feel it is necessary, as the most important thing is that he is in the past. Current phone records would prove that.

 

[Mr.Married]

No need to be a jerk.

This is a quote from YOU concerning you current marriage/relationship that started as an AFFAIR with her in which she quickly:

You have been sucking up this chump life with her for WAY TOO LONG. She is banging the dude and you know it.

You wasted 12 years with that lizard.

 

[mcmike]

McMike, there is NO WAY that she didn't have a physical affair with this guy in Jamaica. Separate rooms? BS. She def had sex with him -- and she is STILL trying to hide that from you. They are adults -- who will have sex in a situation like that.
You need to seriously think about this, esp. since you have photos from her previous affair with the gu.
She isn't being truthful -- if she was she'd give you full access to EVERYTHING. She isn't because she knows you will find out the truth.

ETA: you may want to contact HIS wife to let her know the truth -- AFTER you talk with a lawyer. She needs to know what a crap person she is married to.

I think you missed a few details and one point I didn't share: I checked with the hotel, he had a separate room (not that it means they didn't sleep together). As for his wife, she died, and that is the reason he came back on the scene in 2022.