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I've been in a long-term relationship with my wife for about 20 years, with kids. About 2 years ago, out of the blue, I discovered my wife has been having an affair: I literally drove past her while headed home - she was walking down the street on her cell phone, I slowed down and offered to drive her home, she waved me off as she was happy to walk, and as I began driving away, my car picked up her call on bluetooth - with my daughter next to me. The only thing we both heard was a man saying "I love you so much honey".

I had no warning signs - no idea she was carrying on. I confronted her outside after sending my daughter into the house. She did two things right at this point: she admitted it right away, told me who it was, and she also swore to me that she wanted to be with me, that the affair was a mistake. She insisted it was an emotional affair. She ended it the next morning with the man.

The man - we'll call him *- was an "old friend" that I had never met. She had mentioned him over the years, and every once in a while they talked on the phone or even met up for dinner or lunch. I asked her about * when we were first together, as we were learning about each other's past, and she assured me back then that he was just a dear friend. He did not live in the same city, so contact with him was sportatic at best over the years that followed. In terms of the affair, she assured me the two of them started as a result of leaning on him for emotional support when her father died (4 months earlier). She also informed me that the trip she had recently taken to Jamaica to have some "time to herself and grieve" - was not a solo trip: he joined her after a couple of days of being there, but in a separate room. She lied about that when I first realized she was having an affair when she went on that trip, but she did admit it during our first counselling session.

My wife had been married before we got together 20 years ago, and we got together not long after her marriage ended. I too had been married, and was in the process of ending it at that time.

Upon learning of this affair, my wife and I did intensive couples counselling and as a result, are more in love than we probably ever have been. We addressed a lot of issues (that should have been addressed years before had she agreed to go sooner - a request I frequently made and was rebuffed, but that's another matter). I chose to work on us instead of leave, and I'm glad I did.

A few months ago - in what turned out to be our last couples therapy session -I brought up the fact that she was curiously preventing me from accessing our phone bill account - it has our home phone/internet etc, as well as her cell phone connected to it (my cell phone is billed separately). I figured in counselling she would realize she had no reason not to give me access (I needed access for financial/tax reasons). Instead she adamantly refused to give me access. She got so upset she left the session early.

At that point I knew something was up, so I started digging. I found text messages on her phone, and then I found (sadly graphic) old photographs. Lo and behold, these discoveries proved that (a) the affair she had with ** started months earlier that she admitted to me (although it was likely not physical, given he didn't live in the area) and (b) this was NOT her first affair with . The photographs proved that she was cheating on her ex-husband with him as well, before she and I were together. (Why did she keep the photos!!!!) ** was also married with kids, and I guess he would not leave his wife, although she did leave her husband (no kids from that marriage). Literally I am surely only with her because he ended it at the time. Fast forward to 2022: his wife died a year before her father died (2023), which is what prompted him to reach out to my wife, after (what I belive was) many years of silence between the two of them.

So, I have this info, and I have not yet confronted my wife (it's been almost 3 months since my discovery). We had stopped counselling because I was laid off work right at the time of that last terrible session. I wanted to talk to her with our couples counsellor, as I don't trust how she will react - she will probably freak out at my digging through her text messages (I knew her password) then finding the photos in her office (which were from her first affair with him exclusively).

I need her to come clean, as I can't live with the lie. I have every reason to believe she is truly finished with ****, and has been since I found about them 2 years ago. She lately tells me she has never been happier with me, and I feel the same way, and yet I know her secrets and they eat away at me.

I have ben debating how much to admit to her I know: I want her to come clean - completely. If I tell her I know she wasn't honest about her relationship, she'll want to know what I know, and presumably build a (limited) narrative around what I tell her. I want her to come clean about everything: the ancient affair on her ex, as well as the timelines for the affair she had on me. I also don't believe her when she insisted that on the recent affair it was stricly an emotional affair: they were having sex in their old affair, and I'm pretty sure they must have been having sex in Jamaica.

My debate: do I admit that I read her text messages and saw photographs when I confront her? Maybe just admit to the photographs? My reason for snooping, after all, was because I knew something was amiss when she refused me access to the phone bill account (which would have proven communication between them). I am nervous as hell to bring this up. She has agreed to a couples counselling session in a couple of weeks to talk about what is bothering me.

Sorry for the long story. Interested in peoples thoughts on that last paragraph.
Do I admit that I read her text messages and saw photographs when I confront her?
Sorry, but to me you come across as another beta male.
If this had been my wife darn right I would have let it be known I have seen her text messages and photos.
But I`d never have allowed myself to be in this situation because the moment I discovered my wife cheating, whether it be a one night stand, a quickie in the back of a car somewhere or a full blown affair she would have been out of the house within the time it took her to pack all her crap.

It seems many husbands of weak character are afraid of their wives.
No need to be a genius to understand your wife doesn`t respect you.
Fine if you are willing to continue as the long and suffering otherwise good luck.
We are treated how we allow ourselves to be treated.
 
You have been trying to rebuild your marriage but it has been built on unstable foundations. Lies and deception are very rocky foundations.
I think you know that you haven't been told the full truth and if you take some of the advise given here you should be able to get her to come clean.
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Complete lies.
She's lying to you.
You're lying to yourself, and that's the worst part.
And now the truth.
1. She's a serial cheater who only the grave can fix.
2.They had sex and many times.
3. She doesn't love or respect you, has never loved or respected you. She is by no means your friend.
4. She has always loved only AP, loves him now and will always love him, no matter what she says.
5. You don't love the real woman next to you, but the imaginary portrait you perceived during the first period of your relationship.
6.You are both deeply unhappy. Your children cannot be happy in a family where both parents are unhappy.
7.You're a backup, she stays with you because it's beneficial for her (you know why). And nothing will change this fact.
8. You will never come to terms with her affairs and AP, you will never forget what she did to you, even if all the IC and MC in the world work with you.
9.You can be sure that she and AP denigrated you, mocked and laughed at you discussing your flaws, your intimate secrets that you shared with her and your sexual behavior. I'm sure she was comparing your genitals and those of her lover, and the comparison wasn't in your favor.
10.I'm also sure that AP has been always bragging and is bragging now to all his friends about his "victory" over you, how he took your woman away from you and makes you look like a c*****d.
.....................................................
You made a typical tragic mistake when you caught her. You should have announced the divorce immediately, even if you wanted to stay, and served her with divorce papers ASAP. Now she has realized that you are a weakling and continues her manipulations and games.
........................................................
Ask her a few questions and evaluate her answers. It's going to be fun.
1)Why did you betray me instead of working on problems (if any) with me or, if you can't solve problems or if you really love/fell in love with AP, warn me and honestly leave?
2)Why didn't you move in with AP during the affair or after D-Day?
3) Imagine that we decide to reconcile, what would you expect from it?
I'm sure her answers to these questions will be ********, which will be as clear as day to you.
......................................................
My only advice is to let her go, let the AP pick her up and deal with her **** himself.
Offer it to her.
If you don't end this toxic marriage now, she'll either continue the affair or leave you for her lover anyway when it's convenient for her and on her terms.
 
I hear you Diedre - I suppose my problem is that outside of this truth, we've never been closer. I do believe she is done with him, and one of the things I need to get my head around is exactly what you suggest: how do I really know she is totally done with him, given she lied about their original relationship? Had she admitted to it years ago (after all, I wasn't on the scene) I never would have been comfortable with her communicating with him again. Note they literally went years without talking. I don't think anything inappropriate happened between them during our time together until 2022/23 time frame. I don't have any reason to believe they carried on after I found out (late 2023), and she has been emphatic about telling me how horrible she feels about having made that error and how badly she wishes she could go back in time. At the time I found out in 2023, she contacted him via email a few days after I found out, to let him know that she would never have any contact with him ever again of any kind. I believe they have both respected that.
My best guess is that she wanted to take the secret of their original affair to the grave. But keeping the photos is a stupid way to keep a secret (they were on old CDs).
You’re being very naive for believing that it wasn’t physical during your marriage because he lived in a different city or they were in different rooms in Jamaica. I shake my head while typing that out.

She’s known him longer than she’s known you, they’ve had sex many times over the years that you were with her. I strongly suggest to DNA any children she bore during your marriage to her.

Your other thread from 12 years ago pretty much predicted your current predicament.
 
Of course she is lying and what's even worse is that you are also lying...to yourself. You've allowed yourself to be walked on because you view success as her staying with you and how she treats you in the moment. There's no consequences for her actions and she knows this. Look its your life, but most men, at least those with self respect would have already walked. You have a wife that loves another man and has so for many years. Why would anyone stay in that situation? If you're set on saving this debacle of a marriage, you should at least demand a polygraph to find out the total truth. But somehow I don't see you doing that.
 
Sir, our conscience plays heavily with things of this nature. Our hearts and minds spin cycle constantly. I know. After 34 yrs of marriage my wife let slip an incident with a man from around 30 yrs prior. We had been married around 5 yrs at the time and I was in the Navy and deployed when it started. It took me several years to do a real confrontation over this. Several more years of a very painful trickle truth, no real remorse or admitting wrong doing and I ended our marriage at 40 yrs! It wasn't the fact of what she did, but the years of deception. All the i love yous, miss you, intimacy, and finally having a child with me. All of this while behind those blue eyes was a dirty little secret!
no one here can tell you what you will or must do. We can only tell you of our experiences. Its something you must search your own heart and soul to do.
Best wishes and I'm deeply sorry you must endure this.
 
I need her to come clean, as I can't live with the lie.
It’s too late for this. She should have come clean the first go around. What makes you think this time will be different?

Listen, I unfortunately, can lay claim to having stake in the territory as a betraying spouse. If she really cared about anything besides herself, she would have completely come clean in the beginning. And she certainly wouldn’t have done it again.

That is the difference between a habitual woman who steps out on her husband and one who doesn’t and made a mistake. Keyword: A. Meaning one.

If she loved you and respected you and cared for your feelings, you wouldn’t be in the situation AGAIN.
 
I was married to a cheater. He never admitted to anything I didn’t have solid proof of and even then he tried to spin it. Cheaters lie because it benefits them — especially when they don’t want their marriage to end. It’s unlikely you’ll ever know the real truth. Can you live with that or not?
 
She also informed me that the trip she had recently taken to Jamaica to have some "time to herself and grieve" - was not a solo trip: he joined her after a couple of days of being there, but in a separate room........

whoa Nellie! Separate rooms my ass. Relegate this cheater to a backseat of your mind. Let her go. Get yourself into counseling sir. You need to build up your self esteem and confidence.
 
They banged in Jamaica with 100% certainty. Likely many times.

This man is her #1 choice, clearly. Make it easy for her and tell her to move out, and go be with him.

She's been lying to you your whole marriage, likely. While I don't suggest your kids are not yours, I would make her go through the ordeal of a DNA test on them, just to pound the point home with severity and alacrity.

Only after you've done those things, and she crawls on her knees crying with mascara smudged and wiping her nose....do you then calmly describe that you know "everything" and only after she comes clean to you, will you even CONSIDER entertaining a future with her.
 
You found out two years ago. Online phone records seldom go back over a year. If she refuses to let you see them, it's because of something last month, not years ago. That is, she is actively doing something she wants to hide from you.
"I had no warning signs - no idea she was carrying on. "
"Upon learning of this affair, my wife and I did intensive couples counselling and as a result, are more in love than we probably ever have been."
Those three things are a very bad sign. Your wife is good at acting. She is still in an active affair.

You have a spouse who was cheating with the same guy she cheated on you with in her first marriage. Likely a contributing factor in her divorce. The only thing that kept them apart was her APs marriage and kids. Taking a trip to be together, means they were all the way together. You know that. AP is now available. I wouldn't worry about getting the truth from her. I'd be worrying about her just bidding her time to get all of her ducks in a row before leaving you for him. Using your love for her as a tool. Being super "loving" to you to keep you content until she is ready. How old is your youngest?
 
You found out two years ago. Online phone records seldom go back over a year. If she refuses to let you see them, it's because of something last month, not years ago. That is, she is actively doing something she wants to hide from you.
"I had no warning signs - no idea she was carrying on. "
"Upon learning of this affair, my wife and I did intensive couples counselling and as a result, are more in love than we probably ever have been."
Those three things are a very bad sign. Your wife is good at acting. She is still in an active affair.

You have a spouse who was cheating with the same guy she cheated on you with in her first marriage. Likely a contributing factor in her divorce. The only thing that kept them apart was her APs marriage and kids. Taking a trip to be together, means they were all the way together. You know that. AP is now available. I wouldn't worry about getting the truth from her. I'd be worrying about her just bidding her time to get all of her ducks in a row before leaving you for him. Using your love for her as a tool. Being super "loving" to you to keep you content until she is ready. How old is your youngest?
Listen to this bolded part very carefully.

The love bombing is a red herring. Running cover until she and the AP can figure it out. She and him are like, "crap, now he knows, we have to play nice until we can get you out of there".

Also, your daughter heard that - how old is she? Don't let your daughter see you not stand up for yourself. Terrible lesson.
 
I hear you Diedre - I suppose my problem is that outside of this truth, we've never been closer. I do believe she is done with him, and one of the things I need to get my head around is exactly what you suggest: how do I really know she is totally done with him, given she lied about their original relationship? Had she admitted to it years ago (after all, I wasn't on the scene) I never would have been comfortable with her communicating with him again. Note they literally went years without talking. I don't think anything inappropriate happened between them during our time together until 2022/23 time frame. I don't have any reason to believe they carried on after I found out (late 2023), and she has been emphatic about telling me how horrible she feels about having made that error and how badly she wishes she could go back in time. At the time I found out in 2023, she contacted him via email a few days after I found out, to let him know that she would never have any contact with him ever again of any kind. I believe they have both respected that.
My best guess is that she wanted to take the secret of their original affair to the grave. But keeping the photos is a stupid way to keep a secret (they were on old CDs).
I hope you read this, because I was in a very similar situation to you. My wife's AP was a guy she knew before me. They were never romantic before though. It slowly developed over time until our marriage was in the crapper, when they finally expressed their feelings. I intercepted an email accidentally, very early on, before they got physical (their writings were confirmation it hadn't yet happened). He also lived 1-2 hours away.

Here's what happened. I made several mistakes, but her feelings took awhile to subside. She cannot just "turn him off" that fast, I'm TELLING YOU. She may do the right thing, send the email, etc. but she WILL contact him again (guessing she already has) - the dopamine is just too addictive. My wife went back once and opened "harmless" communication again, she just couldn't not have him "around" to text/email with. Once I saw this happening, I said, I'm done if you ever send one more single thing to him. I will divorce you. She drafted a final goodbye email, let me read it, then sent, and they finally ended communications. But it took a HUGE effort and SEVERE consequences to make it happen. Even THEN, I monitored her phone/email for 2 years after that- all clean, then I finally relaxed, and now it's been 13 years since then, we have been in a very good place for a long time now. But it took a 100% certain ultimatum.
 
I hear you Diedre - I suppose my problem is that outside of this truth, we've never been closer. I do believe she is done with him, and one of the things I need to get my head around is exactly what you suggest: how do I really know she is totally done with him, given she lied about their original relationship? Had she admitted to it years ago (after all, I wasn't on the scene) I never would have been comfortable with her communicating with him again. Note they literally went years without talking. I don't think anything inappropriate happened between them during our time together until 2022/23 time frame. I don't have any reason to believe they carried on after I found out (late 2023), and she has been emphatic about telling me how horrible she feels about having made that error and how badly she wishes she could go back in time. At the time I found out in 2023, she contacted him via email a few days after I found out, to let him know that she would never have any contact with him ever again of any kind. I believe they have both respected that.
My best guess is that she wanted to take the secret of their original affair to the grave. But keeping the photos is a stupid way to keep a secret (they were on old CDs).
My God man, you caught her saying I love you honey to someone she has been in a relationship with longer than you! Even though she is a proven liar those are words you can bet are truth. You really think she could drop him at the snap of your fingers after having been in love with him for more than 2 decades? You aren't thinking straight, which is understandable.

And sorry, but it is foolish to think the affair wasn't physical AT LEAST when they were alone in Jamaica together. Again, you aren't thinking straight. She was brazen enough to wave off her husband while telling her BF that she loves him. I'm not even going to call him her affair partner, they are clearly more than that. Do you really think they kept it all platonic in the warm sun and surf of a paradise? They were going at it like rabbits, you really have to understand that. Your mind is doing damage control out of fear.

She kept those pictures as a memento of the love for her BF. She just couldn't let them go.

IMO you need to send to packing to her BF she's been in love with longer than you. She is really only sorry for getting caught. You know she would still be with him if you hadn't accidently heard that conversation.
 
I've been in a long-term relationship with my wife for about 20 years, with kids. About 2 years ago, out of the blue, I discovered my wife has been having an affair: I literally drove past her while headed home - she was walking down the street on her cell phone, I slowed down and offered to drive her home, she waved me off as she was happy to walk, and as I began driving away, my car picked up her call on bluetooth - with my daughter next to me. The only thing we both heard was a man saying "I love you so much honey".

I had no warning signs - no idea she was carrying on. I confronted her outside after sending my daughter into the house. She did two things right at this point: she admitted it right away, told me who it was, and she also swore to me that she wanted to be with me, that the affair was a mistake. She insisted it was an emotional affair. She ended it the next morning with the man.

The man - we'll call him *- was an "old friend" that I had never met. She had mentioned him over the years, and every once in a while they talked on the phone or even met up for dinner or lunch. I asked her about * when we were first together, as we were learning about each other's past, and she assured me back then that he was just a dear friend. He did not live in the same city, so contact with him was sportatic at best over the years that followed. In terms of the affair, she assured me the two of them started as a result of leaning on him for emotional support when her father died (4 months earlier). She also informed me that the trip she had recently taken to Jamaica to have some "time to herself and grieve" - was not a solo trip: he joined her after a couple of days of being there, but in a separate room. She lied about that when I first realized she was having an affair when she went on that trip, but she did admit it during our first counselling session.

My wife had been married before we got together 20 years ago, and we got together not long after her marriage ended. I too had been married, and was in the process of ending it at that time.

Upon learning of this affair, my wife and I did intensive couples counselling and as a result, are more in love than we probably ever have been. We addressed a lot of issues (that should have been addressed years before had she agreed to go sooner - a request I frequently made and was rebuffed, but that's another matter). I chose to work on us instead of leave, and I'm glad I did.

A few months ago - in what turned out to be our last couples therapy session -I brought up the fact that she was curiously preventing me from accessing our phone bill account - it has our home phone/internet etc, as well as her cell phone connected to it (my cell phone is billed separately). I figured in counselling she would realize she had no reason not to give me access (I needed access for financial/tax reasons). Instead she adamantly refused to give me access. She got so upset she left the session early.

At that point I knew something was up, so I started digging. I found text messages on her phone, and then I found (sadly graphic) old photographs. Lo and behold, these discoveries proved that (a) the affair she had with ** started months earlier that she admitted to me (although it was likely not physical, given he didn't live in the area) and (b) this was NOT her first affair with **. The photographs proved that she was cheating on her ex-husband with him as well, before she and I were together. (Why did she keep the photos!!!!) **** was also married with kids, and I guess he would not leave his wife, although she did leave her husband (no kids from that marriage). Literally I am surely only with her because he ended it at the time. Fast forward to 2022: his wife died a year before her father died (2023), which is what prompted him to reach out to my wife, after (what I belive was) many years of silence between the two of them.

So, I have this info, and I have not yet confronted my wife (it's been almost 3 months since my discovery). We had stopped counselling because I was laid off work right at the time of that last terrible session. I wanted to talk to her with our couples counsellor, as I don't trust how she will react - she will probably freak out at my digging through her text messages (I knew her password) then finding the photos in her office (which were from her first affair with him exclusively).

I need her to come clean, as I can't live with the lie. I have every reason to believe she is truly finished with ****, and has been since I found about them 2 years ago. She lately tells me she has never been happier with me, and I feel the same way, and yet I know her secrets and they eat away at me.

I have ben debating how much to admit to her I know: I want her to come clean - completely. If I tell her I know she wasn't honest about her relationship, she'll want to know what I know, and presumably build a (limited) narrative around what I tell her. I want her to come clean about everything: the ancient affair on her ex, as well as the timelines for the affair she had on me. I also don't believe her when she insisted that on the recent affair it was stricly an emotional affair: they were having sex in their old affair, and I'm pretty sure they must have been having sex in Jamaica.

My debate: do I admit that I read her text messages and saw photographs when I confront her? Maybe just admit to the photographs? My reason for snooping, after all, was because I knew something was amiss when she refused me access to the phone bill account (which would have proven communication between them). I am nervous as hell to bring this up. She has agreed to a couples counselling session in a couple of weeks to talk about what is bothering me.

Sorry for the long story. Interested in peoples thoughts on that last paragraph.
I don't think you owe her any explanations of HOW you came by the information. Being right means you did nothing wrong. And as I have learned, you need to use every lever, every bit of information, every breadcrumb as a weapon for what is coming.
 
Nothing to confront with. You will always be second best to her lover(s), you will get cheated on again (she’s a serial cheater), and she will never give up the full truth (shown a consistent pattern of lying).

You shouldn’t confront. You should get an attorney, get things in order, and ask your wife to move on and move out.

but you won’t. And she knows you won’t. That’s why you keep getting lied to, cheated on, and used as a doormat. I’m sorry.

Think about this: You never knew your wife was cheating. That’s because cheating is her ground state. It’s normal behavior for her.
 
You shouldn’t confront. You should get an attorney, get things in order, and ask your wife to move on and move out.

but you won’t. And she knows you won’t. That’s why you keep getting lied to, cheated on, and used as a doormat. I’m sorry.
There just seems to be so many BH's that fall into this category. Sometimes I wonder what they come here looking for when you just know they won't take anyone's advice to extricate themselves from the abuse. Its depressing really.
 
She had a full blown affair with this guy in her previous marriage, and yet you think them taking a vacation together recently was him in a separate room?

Your wife has been cheating on you for the duration of the relationship.

Everything she has done is a lie.

You are not close to the real her, she is manipulating you.

You need to have some self-respect and leave.

She will be with the man she really loves immediately. Let her go.

She's spent the majority of her life cheating, she won't stop.
 
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