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Men have observed, at least the ones who were paying attention, that certain behaviors elicit certain responses from women. Deference and clinginess results in less sex, dominance and aloofness results in more sex. Bell curve. YMMV.

And a$$holes get all the girls. Quit spreading 'em for a$$holes and you girls will get less a$$hole behavior. When your reward someone for a particular behavior, you get more of it. Of course, this has to be moderated in an LTR.

I always used to laugh at guys getting dating advice from girls. It was always the same: "be yourself and be funny. We like guys who make us laugh."

Well, that sure made me laugh and the girls always giggled at what I said. None of it funny. If you've got the body, the face and the attitude, it's all funny to girls.
 
sorry for saying *all* but I've been seeing it a lot in many threads on alpha vs beta men. For some reason, some of you think you need to be a jerk for a woman to like you ?!!
No ...

You don't need to be a jerk.

You need to be less of what your partner ISN'T responding to, or finds unattractive.

So ... if you are clingy, smothering and emotionally overbearing ... you NEED to show less outward affection to balance the relationship.

If you are a selfish, emotionally closed off dope, you need to show more attention and affection.

Make sense?
 
Whenever there's a decision to be made, I try to decide one way or another without hesitation. Even if it's as small as where are we going to eat or what do I want to do. I decide and she follows.
Please excuse my question here, but if one is a consensus decision maker does that mean they're not an alpha?
 
sorry for saying *all* but I've been seeing it a lot in many threads on alpha vs beta men. For some reason, some of you think you need to be a jerk for a woman to like you ?!!
Let me ask you this...

Imagine your dating/married to someone who is nice, generous, confident, successful, has a plan, keeps himself fit, and cleans up well when he needs to. You don't treat this guy with respect and love. You push his buttons, try to get a reaction out him, test his boundaries, pick on his faults, and leave him sexually frustrated to boot. Maybe you don't even realize that you're doing this to him (or you do and don't make it a priority to change).

Who's the jerk in this scenario?

Obviously, this is hypothetical. I don't know you, and you may be the rare case that doesn't do this. Guys aren't perfect, either.

In many circles, it is just accepted that in order to be treated with respect, love, and some intimacy, we need to be tougher with our SO's than we feel we should need to or would like. As far as I'm concerned, that means being more of a jerk than I'd want to.

It doesn't get better if you try harder to please. I'd argue that the difference between a nice guy and a doormat is that the doormat is the one trying harder.

The alternative is to leave. But then, where do you go? The odds are not in our favor that we'll find someone significantly better. That leaves being single.
 
When did you get a vagina? Until you do, just stop telling or speaking on behalf of women. I know what I believe and I sure as heck don't need some dude to tell me what I want. You are also wrong, for me at least. The simple fact that you think you know what women want and are so bold to speak for an entire sex, makes you sexual napalm to me. Tell me again about how I get turned on, I friggin dare you.
The thing is, he isn't too far off in SOME or even many situations. There are simply just a lot of women (and men) out there who are not very self aware, and don't understand WHY they're losing attraction for their S/O. But it's plastered on these boards every single day with the "HD husband, LD wife" threads. I believe that these "LD" women, when they tell their husbands that if they'd "do more around the house, I'm too tired" or "if you'd just leave me alone and stop asking about it, maybe I'd get in the mood" think that this is what the problem is. In some instances, this is right (i.e. a lazy husband who doesn't help around the house or a pesky sexaholic that won't stop pestering). But oftentimes that's simply not the case. There's a woman there who hasn't had sex with her husband in months, the same husband that "does all the cooking", "does all the cleaning" because she said she was "tired and exhausted". Gives her back rubs, and receives no affection in return. Hasn't asked her for sex in months and nothing changes.

Some times these tired, exhausted women are out having affairs, screwing the hell out of their affair partners, and doing things they haven't done with their h's in years! Why is she not too tired or feeling pressured to have sex with this other man? Why is she willingly giving him bj's at every turn when she hasn't offered her husband one in years? Why the difference?

It's about attraction, sexual tension, and excitement. And a doormat man simply does not supply that to a woman. There may be other or no problems, but one thing is for sure, if she's not attracted, you aren't "gettin' any". And I don't believe that a good number of women when they're going through this understand it. Or at least are afraid to (or just don't want to) say so. All they "know" is they don't feel attracted to their partner, they start to see him as a burndensome room mate, and they have no interest in sex with them. They THINK they're too tired, but that is often not the case. Didn't stop her from having sex when you were dating or for the first year of the relationship when you'd party all night, have sex, and go to work on a few hours sleep. So why now, and to such an extent that this goes on for MONTHS or in some cases YEARS? In all that time, this woman was not ever rested? Sure she was. But that wasn't the problem.

I don't much like this whole "alpha up" description. I prefer the "man up" or possibly "find your balls" analogy. It's not about being an "alpha prick", but it is about not being a doormat, servant, maid, and massuese all wrapped up into one, or forsaking your own interests to better "serve her". It's about not being such a "nice guy" that you're forsaking your own needs and wants just to kiss the azz of another, and getting no appreciation (or much of anything else) in return.

Such a recurring theme with "nice guys" is that yes, they are pizzed off. They do feel stood upon or neglected. And they won't say or do anything about it out of fear. Fear that he's not good enough for her, he should feel lucky to have her, and she'll leave at the slightest provocation should he stand up for himself, or let her know her behavior is not acceptable. And, I don't know many women who want a guy like that or is even remotely attracted to it.

It's not about being a d!ck. It is about not being a doormat and standing up for yourself. Big difference. And IMO, this all starts with the first few times a woman gives a man some unreasonable chit, and he takes it with a whimper, or reacts poorly to it, instead of calmly and directly nipping it in the bud as soon as it starts and letting her know that behavior is not appreciated, and won't be accepted. The more it happens, the more resentful everyone becomes, and things snowball out of control. Whereas had the guy "manned up", "alpha'd up" or whatever you want to call it, and calmly dealt with it from the start, it wouldn't be a problem at all. And she'd at least respect him for standing up for himself.

Many of these traits are the same ones displayed by "bad boys" (aka "the pr!cks"). Difference being, the bad boy comes with a whole other set of issues. If "nice guys" would just pick up some of these good traits of self confidence, self respect, and not letting themselves get walked all over, while retaining the better parts of their "good guy" side, they'd be much, much better off. And their wives would be happier.
 
It's not about being a d!ck. It is about not being a doormat and standing up for yourself. Big difference.
:iagree:

But donny,
There's something my deceased grandfather who was a WWII veteran told me long ago.
As long as you KNOW the difference,
Never argue with people who DON'T know. Especially those who are not even in a position to know.

The OP asked a simple question, and FOUR pages later, absolutely none of those who criticized his attempts to improve himself could come up with ONE suggestion.

Why?

Maybe they don't know?

If it WORKS in your life and your relationships.
That's all that matters.
 
This has got to be a joke...;)
Really?

What's so funny about women defining themselves and what works for them ,and a man defining himself and what works for him?

What's so funny about a man who decides to stand up for himself , and not allow an insecure , BPD control freak to bully him?
 
Well, I got my first one when I was 11. And that was just the beginning. So I know a lot about getting vaginas.
:lol:

You stole my line but i won't hold a grudge over it.

Well, we have our proverbial women saying that they want "nice guys" and whatever. But there is a surefire way to actually read about what makes women hot.

Their own sort of porn if you like. Their romances and erotic literature. Who are the studs in those? What are the types? what kind of characters rule their fantasies?

You have your dangerous men, rogues, pirates, kidnapping sheiks, bikers, powerful businessmen, and these days, vampires and werewolves. Yeah... So where is that romantic fool with the roses in all this?

Ah yes, he is that nice guy who serves as an intellectual ***** for the girl when she gets her heart broken by yet another alpha dude.

Lets be honest here ladies, in high school, did you get wet for the broad shouldered hiperpopular sports jock or the easy going library geek who would do all your biddings.

As much as you SAY you want this and that, observation and experience tells otherwise. And personally i'm basically walking proof of this. As a young teen i was often friend-zoned until i found out i was acting like and idiot trying to cater to women hoping to fall in their good graces. Only when i discovered that i had to actually do the opposite and give them the "you're not all that" did i manage to get royally going.

I didn't become a "jerk". But i did become one of those guys who would basically tell a girl that i'm more than she can handle, that i'll probably be having sex with her friend in the next week if she doesn't show signs of wanting me. The whole "i really don't give a damn". And yes, ****y bastard extreme! Sexual innuendo going and no i'm not a friend! Don't even call me that!

It works. It just does! So excuse me if i take comments of women about this subject with a grain of salt. You may be and exception, but with 3,5 billion of you in this planet i don't think you will make a dent in my odds.
 
Ever observed on TAM, whenever the word " Alpha" is mentioned a lot of women instantly get all riled up and angry?

Ever noticed whenever the term " Strong Independent Woman" is mentioned, they all nod their heads in agreement?

So Alpha traits either don't exist or are undesirable, but being a strong independent woman is highly recommended.

Actually there's room for both in a relationship.
But it takes a certain level of emotional maturity to see that.;)
 
"be yourself and be funny. We like guys who make us laugh."
I never understood this big deal about guys being funny and make the girls laugh.
I mean...it was never on my list to find a guy who should necessarily make me laugh all day and be funny all day.
[Make me smile is something different, though.]
Let's be clear, It's not that I don't want to laugh ..but a guy being funny all the time, especially on the first date, sounds like a clown to me. :rolleyes:
 
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How the phuck does one "try" to be "Alpha" (whatever the hell that means).

Be a man. I can't wrap my mind around being a "servant" to a woman. I treat my wife well, because she's my equal, soulmate, and the love of my life. It sounds unfathomable to me that I'd ever purposefully decide to NOT do something because I want to appear "Alpha" to my woman. Give me a ****ing break.

Just be a man. Treat your woman well, and with respect, but don't sacrifice your own voice, and self respect, for her.

Being "Alpha" just seems to me to be about self respect. It doesn't have jack to do with how nice, or not, you are to a woman. It's about being who the hell you are, authentically, and owning the hell out of that. And if a woman doesn't want, crave, and desire the real, authentic you, than NEXT her behind and find a woman who does.
 
I never understood this big deal about guys being funny and make the girls laugh.
I mean...it was never on my list to find a guy who should necessarily make me laugh all day and be funny all day.
[Make me smile is something different, though.]
Let's be clear, It's not that I don't want to laugh ..but a guy being funny all the time, especially on the first date, sounds like a clown to me. :rolleyes:
Funny means guys who are clever and witty and charming - not clowns. Clever and witty is intelligence, not buffoonery.

Funny means he is a guy you can be comfortable with, have fun with, and can share inside jokes. Funny means he can eek a smile out of you even when you feel like the worst crap.

Laughing together means sharing a sense of humor and perspective on life.

THOSE are the guys I fell for in high school, college, and ever since. Not alphas, betas, or whateveretas.

And FYI, if you get girls when you act like this...
As a young teen i was often friend-zoned until i found out i was acting like and idiot trying to cater to women hoping to fall in their good graces. Only when i discovered that i had to actually do the opposite and give them the "you're not all that" did i manage to get royally going.

I didn't become a "jerk". But i did become one of those guys who would basically tell a girl that i'm more than she can handle, that i'll probably be having sex with her friend in the next week if she doesn't show signs of wanting me. The whole "i really don't give a damn". And yes, ****y bastard extreme! Sexual innuendo going and no i'm not a friend! Don't even call me that!

It works. It just does!
... I would question the quality of those women and those relationships.
 
Men have observed, at least the ones who were paying attention, that certain behaviors elicit certain responses from women. Deference and clinginess results in less sex, dominance and aloofness results in more sex. Bell curve. YMMV.
No, putting up with less sex results in less sex. There are lots of guys, including plenty here on TAM, who are getting "less sex" without any of the overt "Beta" traits that people villainize around here.

If a man is bartering, begging, and groveling, and changing his essential nature, all for sex with the woman who vowed to have sex with him, he's lost the war. How "Alpha" is it to pretend to be someone you're not all in an attempt to wet your wife's panties? Under those conditions you are STILL doing it for her, so in this whole battle she "wins" anyway.

Some men are genuinely nice guys. They're not overly nice, or doormats, because women have made them so; that is who they are naturally. If they're with a woman who can't LOVE that, crave that, and desire that, then he needs to collect his balls and leave.

I think this whole alpha vs beta debate comes down to a ton of men and women who are essentially incompatible.
 
Again, some are getting riled up about the "alpha" thing, and believing it is "pretending to be something you're not". Quite the reverse is true. It is mostly the "nice guys", who are too "beta" or "omega" (don't like those terms myself, but who essentially have given up their balls) who put up with b.s. behavior from women who are not the genuine ones. They act so out of fear. And insecurity. No confidence. They're upset, but they'll say nothing. They think they're being treated like chit, but do nothing about it. Their women hen peck them and drive them up a wall, but they say nothing. And the anger and resentment builds in them. But they're afraid to act. Because she's "pretty" and a "catch". And they're afraid to anger her. Or call her on her crap even when SHE knows she's out of line. And it affects the relationship. They whine and cry about how the "jerks" get all the women when their women dump them because they've become insecure, jealous, angry, bitter, clingy and controlling.

Don't confuse "nice guy" with "good guy", or "Alpha" or "manning up" with "jerk". "Manning up" often means nothing more than to STOP being a disingenuous fake! Stop trying to manipulate your wife by ACTING nice towards her in order to get sex when you KNOW she doesn't deserve to be treated nice. Stop kissing her azz when you're so pizzed at her because she hasn't slept with you in months that you could chew through the kitchen cabinet door. Stop treating her nice when you're doing so WITH AN AGENDA! Treat her nice when she deserves it. Call her on her crap when she doesn't. It is really that simple. Be genuine, and let her make an INFORMED choice on if you are the guy for her or not. Newsflash, if you are being genuine and respecting yourself, you've got a huge step up over the guys who don't.

For every woman here complaining about this whole "alpha vs. nice guy" thing, is a woman who has had to chase off a guy who was way too needy. Way to clingy. Way too insecure. Way too pressuring. Even though he was "way nice".
 
Incessant, endless prattle about "manning up" and becoming "alpha" seems to be anything but.

Just saying.

You either get it, or you don't. You can't "try" to be masculine, confident, and assured. You either get to the point where you've lost enough at the hands of your doormat status to make a genuine change, or you don't.
 
I think this whole alpha vs beta debate comes down to a ton of men and women who are essentially incompatible
You might be onto something there and thank you for adding some context. As a lifelong nice guy who has lived decades of sexless existence, I can divorce and start over or play these games. The games have gotten me more intimacy in 2012 than I would have accumulated since the mid 1990's. Also, if there was an example of someone who did have some natural "alpha" tendencies that were domesticated, that was me. I always tried to be sweeter, more considerate, more attendant to her needs...it is way better to keep her guessing and respectful.

And before all the games, she was just not that into me. Whether we stick together or not, I needed that to be fixed. Some of us have our reasons.
 
Incessant, endless prattle about "manning up" and becoming "alpha" seems to be anything but.

Just saying.

You either get it, or you don't. You can't "try" to be masculine, confident, and assured. You either get to the point where you've lost enough at the hands of your doormat status to make a genuine change, or you don't.
Some guys need to fake it until they make it, but women are the ones who pick the winners and the losers.
 
Funny means guys who are clever and witty and charming - not clowns. Clever and witty is intelligence, not buffoonery.
The point is that if a guy is good looking, built, and has a little confidence and charm (either real or fake) the girls are going to laugh at anything that comes out of your mouth, no matter how inane. On the other hand, there are fat and bald comedians who can't get a laugh from women unless they are on stage. Even then it's not the "ohh, you're so fascinating, please ask me out" laugh and gaze that the first guy gets.
 
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