Sorry you're dealing with this. Doesn't sound like fun and I can't say I have been in your shoes yet (youngest is 11).

But I don't blame your wife for having no respect for you. It's your job as the leader of the house to fix this. You need to gain control back.

From what you've described, I think you need to get him sober is your first priority. What drugs is he using?

Time for him to experience consequences. Get him expelled. Is he he even attending high school? Get him arrested. He needs to be doing mandatory drug testing, Why does he even have a phone? He shouldn't have anything. Please tell us he doesn't have a vehicle he is allowed to drive. If he steals your car, call the police. Why are you scared to have him face natural consequences??? It's much better this happens before he turns 18 and it's on his permanent record!

If he threatens suicide, you call the police. He will get committed. Time to let his decisions affect his life.

But you have to get him sober first. Time for an intervention and into rehab. At 16 you should still be able to force him into it. Check your state laws.

He's allowed to do whatever he wants, true. But that's only if he's not incarcerated. I'm thinking that's not too far away.

 

Sorry you're dealing with this. Doesn't sound like fun and I can't say I have been in your shoes yet (youngest is 11)...

But I don't blame your wife for having no respect for you. It's your job as the leader of the house to fix this. You need to gain control back.

Easier said than done. If you haven't been in this position, you don't understand.

From what you've described, I think you need to get him sober is your first priority. What drugs is he using?

Pot, alcohol, Xanax, opiod pills that I know of

Time for him to experience consequences. Get him expelled. Is he he even attending high school? Get him arrested. He needs to be doing mandatory drug testing, Why does he even have a phone? He shouldn't have anything. Please tell us he doesn't have a vehicle he is allowed to drive. If he steals your car, call the police. Why are you scared to have him face natural consequences??? It's much better this happens before he turns 18 and it's on his permanent record!

He has no phone, no door on his room, no allowance, no car, I was going to give him my car but I revoked that when he stole it to joyride. He gets nothing from us, no TV, no spending cash, literally nothing. He has nothing left to lose. He sits in a bedroom with no door and just a bed and dresser. As we separate I'm taking his room and he'll sleep on a twin bed in the hallway.

If he threatens suicide, you call the police. He will get committed. Time to let his decisions affect his life.

Done that, they just release him that day, I've taken him to the emergency room for threatening suicide twice.

But you have to get him sober first. Time for an intervention and into rehab. At 16 you should still be able to force him into it. Check your state laws.

He's allowed to do whatever he wants, true. But that's only if he's not incarcerated. I'm thinking that's not too far away.

At 16 there are no state programs anymore, you're on your own. There is no assistance unless you have 30K readily available. 30 years ago I would take him out back and beat the **** out of him until he learned some respect. Can't do that now. The kid has had every privilege imaginable, he would rather fight and lose everything than do even 1 thing we say. You THINK you understand, but you have no idea. This is not "fixable" by some manly authoritative decree. The kid is mentally ill.

 

You have an out-of-control teenager, it's time to stop arguing with him and let him experience the social consequences of his behavior. You cannot "save" him and you will only enable his behavior by saving him from consequences.

Next time he steals your car or brings drugs into the house call the police and, don't bail him out or provide him with a lawyer. He needs serious (adult) consequences for his behavior.

At his age, if he is arrested, a social worker will become involved in his case and determine if he needs psychiatric intervention.

 

He hasn't stolen the car in a long time, last time he did he crashed it and caused 5K in damages. I wanted to call the police my wife refused. When I found Xanax bars in his room, I wanted to call the police, my wife refused. He was picked up smoking something and extremely high by the police, a social worker did get involved but my wife denied the PINS program. Now at 16, there are no programs, there's literally nothing we can do.

I'm at my wits end. They tell stories about how Dads would go to the grocer for milk and cigarettes and never come back, now I see why. If I were younger I would join the French Foreign Legion and leave all this B.S. behind. Coming home to my wife and him is like a living hell, I can't even explain how at the end of my rope I am.

 

I wish I had some magical mantra to give to you. I know how difficult kids can be. My son just turned 19 and the last two years of high school was bad. But he has changed and things.are better.

One thing I have to say, is that, your wife is wrong to blame this on you. Parenting is a joint effort. You have to present a United front.

I also will call 911 whenever he threatened suicide. I don't play those games. I also think that is a cry for help.

What I can advice is to get your son elvauated for ADHD and any other mental health issues.
This is something that must be done to get him the right help.

Please try to see that your son is not the enemy. He is just a young man without the ability to handle his emotions. He needs to be given tools to control himself. Get him help.

Also, I would advice you to keep telling him that you love him and support him. That's what he needs to hear.

I would give him little things to do and follow up but no yelling or talking about it too much. I find a gentle approach works.better.

And remember to show him love and affection as you do your other kids. Take care of your selves as parents.

Get him help by asking his school to have him evaluated or to get a letter requesting one from them.

Good luck and God bless you all.

 

16 is a critical age, especially with boys.

here is my advice: seek counseling in his high school. they have great counselors there and they will work with him together. he HAS to quit drugs. cut his money and wi-fi access. all you have to do is change the password and don't tell him.

do all these steps in LOVE and Patience. don't ignore him. KEEP talking with and to him. ignore his tone. tell him he is loved and you all care about him but you will not accept criminal behavior. your wife will appreciate it when she see that you keep trying but at the same time you lead and put a foot down. but first of all, get counseling NOW!

 

Boot camp.

 

I'm praying to God he joins the military, but somehow in his narcissistic little mind he thinks he's above being enlisted in the military. Like somehow the material wealth and job status I've earned through a lifetime of hard work has rained down upon him, and enlisting in the military is for the lowly people. He has middling grades at best, quit all sports, no activities, no skill-set. He's going nowhere. And in this **** state I can't kick his ungrateful ass to the curb until he's 21 years old. He can basically just come and go, doing drugs, telling his mother to **** off, and there is not a thing we can do about it until he's 21. It's crazy.

 

What is your wife's side of the story, and your son's? Have you sat down and talked with them individually?

 

My wife knows he has major problems, she's a child of an alcoholic so she enables him, but she's at her wits end. She worries if we keep pushing it he'll kill himself and it will be all our fault. He's a narcissistic entitled little **** who doesn't understand why we can't just let him do what he wants. He wants to be able to do recreational drugs, drink, cut school, fail classes, not lift a finger around the house, and for us to basically look the other way. He feels we're the problem because we're "too strict". Apparently too strict is insisting on no drugs in the house and not telling your mother to go **** herself.

 

Get him arrested for drug use. How's he getting money for the drugs and booze? Is he selling too? He won't be your problem anymore.

The divorce is good for you. Not so sure for your son, as I'm sure he'll live full time with mom. Make sure you get 50% custody so you pay less child support. Good grief, what a mess.

He needs to see what jail is like.

What state are you in? You can't ask the courts to assume responsibility over him? Have you paid for legal advice? Not just using Google. If not, that's your next step. You're going to need a good divorce attorney anyways, so start there.

 

Get him arrested for drug use. How's he getting money for the drugs and booze? Is he selling too? He won't be your problem anymore.

The divorce is good for you. Not so sure for your son, as I'm sure he'll live full time with her. Make sure you get 50% custody so you pay less child support. Good grief, what a mess.

He needs to see what jail is like.

He has a part time job, scrounges from friends. I've tossed his room half a dozen times and haven't found anything that leads me to believe he's selling, although he's come home very high and fails any drug test we give him so he's still using. But there's nothing I could have him arrested for. He knows if he brings drugs into my house he's leaving in handcuffs. I guess he leaves them at friends houses now. I'm sure he brings them in here and there, but you can't be on him every second of every day.

 

Kick his ass to the curb. Parental tough love.

 

Your son will take you down every rabbit hole to hell.

The cops are loathe to get involved in parent/child conflicts because 9 times out of 10 the parents refuse to file charges and the DA does not want to waste time with that nonsense.

Your kid is going to have to get busted for something major outside the space of tormenting you- and if that happens?

Most parents will rescue. Maybe this will wake him up...

You need to actually leave the home.

Or pretty quick,Junior is going to call the cops on YOU. He is going to size up the moment, poke you with enough sticks until you blow.

These kids use the system against the parent and to their advantage.

 

@username77 ;

Read the below quote over and over.... pay attention to this.

Your son will take you down every rabbit hole to hell.

The cops are loathe to get involved in parent/child conflicts because 9 times out of 10 the parents refuse to file charges and the DA does not want to waste time with that nonsense.

Your kid is going to have to get busted for something major outside the space of tormenting you- and if that happens?

Most parents will rescue. Maybe this will wake him up...

You need to actually leave the home.

Or pretty quick, Junior is going to call the cops on YOU. He is going to size up the moment, poke you with enough sticks until you blow.

These kids use the system against the parent and to their advantage.

 

And your wife ?

Her ego probably can't allow her to admit and see that your son is abusive and mentally ill- so she makes you the bad guy- which your son is more than happy to have you be.

You tell him NO which makes YOU the axis of evil-

Don't be shocked if Jr. Isn't telling Mom that YOU are the problem and IF YOU went buhbye that life would be great.

 

Yeah he already does this. I had the flu so I was locked away in my room quarantined and he played the role of good son, laughing and playing with his siblings. But it's an act. I've caught him breaking his little brothers toys and calling him an ******* (the kid is 5).

I know my wife's solution is just to give him back all his stuff and turn a blind eye. I refuse to do it, I'll let the marriage implode before I allow it.

I make a comfortable living, I always said, just get good grades, don't get in trouble with the police or drugs, be respectful and a good citizen and I'll have no reason to really pry into your life (basically you can rebel a little but keep it under control). You'll get an allowance, I'll get you a car, pay for college, whatever you need. But the kid would rather fight tooth and nail and lose everything than put a dish away or be respectful to his mother.

He definitely plays us. I'm the heavy, his mother is in his corner (until she's not). When my son screws her over then my wife is on me to "discipline him". I do, and then 20 minutes later she's taking him for Chinese food and asking if he can have his phone back.

It's ****ing crazy, I swear my wife and my son deserve each other. Right now I just want to save my relationship with my 11 year old daughter (she's my best friend and a great kid), and my 5 year old son who is so nice. My oldest son can pound sand, if he ever wants a relationship with me he has a lot of making up to do. If he comes around I'll be his biggest supporter, but in his current state I want nothing to do with him.

Has he been formally diagnosed with ODD?
I'm sorry if you've already addressed that.

He wasn't formally diagnosed but on one of his hospital visits for threatening suicide the psychiatrist took me aside and said she believes he's just evading her questionnaire, telling her what he thinks she wants to hear. I talked to that doctor for an hour and she said it's likely ODD but he probably has underlying depression, anxiety, and potentially another personality disorder at play but he's too young to diagnose with a personality disorder.

 

Forgot to add-

The drug usage fuels an almost Godlike demeanor-

You morons are obviously confined by your worthless exsistence that happens to pay my bills-please do try to understand that YOU- my parents and my sole providers are mere plebes - I'm so much more enlightened and smarter than you-
Give me money and stop being an annoying gnat that does not understand my brilliance .

Can I have the car tonight? Better yet- buy me that BMW- cause I deserve it.

 

Some come out on the other end and some do not.

For some- "ToughLove" further fuels their rage against the parent who is upfront and Center about implementing that tactic.

"BOOT CAMP"- same rage.

There are terrific parents who can not do a damn thing to "Save" their child.

 

Just so you know...the slapping I did was not part of loveandlogic. I hadn't heard of loveandlogic at that time. If I had been using loveandlogic techniques our son may have been a very different person at 16 and I would have done something more effective to his personal growth than slap him. Slapping him was wrong, and I have apologized to him now that he is older and I am wiser.

But without effective tools used by the parents, it seems that out of control teenagers run the home, and the parents are desperate to get back control of their household using whatever means is familiar to them (from their own childhood?)

 

Has he been formally diagnosed with ODD?
I'm sorry if you've already addressed that.

 

The kid refuses to be diagnosed.


The kid is not going to get labeled anything willingly-

Smart move on his part.

 

I think you need to start with step one -- that would be getting him sober. As he's completely uncontrollable, I would follow the advice of the poster who said to let him deal with the consequences of his actions.
16 is really young. He can come through this. Keep in mind that he must be absolutely miserable but unable to deal with his emotions.
Enforce the 3 rules you set out. If he does anything illegal, call the police.
Is there anyway to avoid separating from your wife? You need to be a united front to deal with this child. Separating will only add to your problems and create more instability for your son.

Hang in there. This can work out. He's still young.

 

The kid has already created the Grand Canyon between parents.

He is a user- Xanax oxy, pot, booze and That is the least the OP knows about.

Maybe ketamine, heroin, Ecstasy , spice etcetera .
He is NOT miserable- his Father is.
There are no consequences to ANY of his actions if he is smart enough to stay under the radar. Which he probably is. And has been thus far.

 

His own unlawful actions can be used against him in a court of law.

He doesn't necessarily need a diagnosis at all.

And if anything, a real diagnosis might help to keep him out of jail whilst simultaneously mandating the treatment he might need.

I don't think we're talking at cross purposes here, but I do not believe it's at all smart of the young man to refuse help that could potentially keep him out of prison.


Eta: 16 is a short hop to 18 and then 21 is around the corner. I don't think there's much time to try and help him, but at least the OP and his wife could do their best.

 

His " own unlawful actions " against whom?

His parents- they are screwed unless he murders them or attempts to. Read my earlier posts about parent/child conflicts and law enforcement.

If he is diagnosed with ANY Cluster B and threatens his parents- kiddo is going to have a tough time blaming Daddy for being verbally/physically abusive.

This is a game that a parent never thought they would have to play much less DEFEND themselves against their own child.

 

The second part of the problem is the divide this has caused between my wife and I has killed our marriage. The years of dealing with him have left us devoid of all affection for each other. She still tries, I don't feel anything for her anymore. There's not much left to the marriage in my opinion other than finances and shared stuff. I don't really know what to do at this point. I'm not a young man, I don't have forever to find some happiness. Right now I'm miserable in marriage and with my son. Mentally I'm managing, I'm not falling behind in work, but I want to stop letting this run my life. How do I just move past it?

I guess it's time for separation or divorce? I don't want to date anyone or anything like that, but I do want peace, quiet, and a life without incessant craziness my son and wife bring into it. I'm a simple guy, I like the outdoors during the day, then a nice meal, settle into a TV show or book, go to bed. I hate drama, yelling, arguing, stress, but I find my life surrounded by it through no fault of my own.

 

You need to get into counseling so someone can help you handle this.

It sounds like a divorce is inevitable. Fight for 50% time with you two younger children. It will help them to be away from their brother. And you might want to consider zero time with your 16 year old unless he and his mother agree to him getting some serious psychiatric help.

 

Have him committed.

You need to protect your other children.

Send the idiot to a place where he can get strapped to a table or solitary for acting like a moron.

My oldest son was somewhat similar but I never played softball with him so it did not get quite as far. You have the power to commit him against his will while he is a minor.

He will continue to destroy everything around him including your other kids if he isn't stopped.

Call the police and report him if he brings illegal drugs in the home. He is endangering his siblings.

Get your legal ducks in a row and you might have to get actions moving against your wife as well for not protecting her small children from her oldest.

There is no middle ground here.

Been there and done that.

 

He's only part of the problem. A relatively small part.

Your utterly ineffective way of not dealing with it is most of the problem.

"He refuses to see a psychiatrist"

Seriously?

Are you afraid of him?

 

I say, let him try to play games with a psychiatrist. PsyDs who specialize in addiction and teens know how to handle that kind of crap. Warn the office in advance, heck even take him to multiple doctors to find the most effective fit. A psychiatrist may be able to get him admitted inpatient for being a danger to himself and others and/or to detox.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

alright. you need to get your attitude right. first of all he is STILL a child. he is an addict and MAYBE mental ill. it's YOUR responsibility to take care of his well being. with his agreement or not, doesn't matter. put your foot down and be a leader! your daughter is NOT your best friend, she is your child. your wife is supposed to be your best friend. act like it. you both need counseling...as couple AND as parents.
DON'T be afraid NOR annoyed to RAISE your child. he is NO grown up yet. do your part and seek professional help. it doesn't matter if he like it or not. it doesn't matter how he think about it or if he wants to be labeled or not. his opinion doesn't matter because he is an addict and needs probably medication for his mental health too. there is too much to do for YOU than that you can throw the towel. sorry, nobody said parenting is easy. and i know, we went through something with our adult children. we had everything. is hard but absolutely fixable.

 

You need to stop being the stop-gap for his bad decisions. Like a previous poster said, if he brings drugs in the house, call the police and have him arrested. If he steals your car, call the police and have him arrested. You should cancel his cell phone as well. If he wants one, he can get a job and pay for it himself.

More than likely, he's a lost cause, unfortunately. You can no longer influence him, and the only influences he does have will destroy him. But there's nothing you can do, other than let the consequences of his actions find him. Perhaps that will wake him up.

If he's insane enough that you're actually in fear of your life (like not being surprised if he killed you in your sleep), then like Conan said, have him committed. Stop allowing his behavior to continue through inaction. He is destroying your wife, and other children. If you love them, then put a stop to it. Call a mental health place when you're out, explain the situation, find out what needs to happen in order to commit an unwilling minor, and get the ball rolling.

 

You need to stop being the stop-gap for his bad decisions. Like a previous poster said, if he brings drugs in the house, call the police and have him arrested. If he steals your car, call the police and have him arrested. You should cancel his cell phone as well. If he wants one, he can get a job and pay for it himself.

More than likely, he's a lost cause, unfortunately. You can no longer influence him, and the only influences he does have will destroy him. But there's nothing you can do, other than let the consequences of his actions find him. Perhaps that will wake him up.

I agree with the above about you calling the police on him and making sure that he has charges brought against him for his drugs, for stealing things, etc. He has to have society meter out the consequences because right now he rightly believes that there is nothing that you can do to him. After all you have already taken every thing away from him. What more can you do?

If he's insane enough that you're actually in fear of your life (like not being surprised if he killed you in your sleep), then like Conan said, have him committed. Stop allowing his behavior to continue through inaction. He is destroying your wife, and other children. If you love them, then put a stop to it. Call a mental health place when you're out, explain the situation, find out what needs to happen in order to commit an unwilling minor, and get the ball rolling.

The OP cannot have his son committed because he has no way to prove that there is anything wrong with his son. He would have to go to court with proof that his son has a serious mental illness that cannot be treated. The only way to get that evidence is to take his son to a psychiatrist. This is something that takes months, years to do. And thousands of dollars both for the psychiatrist and for the legal case.

Even if he got his son committed, it would be for only 2-3 months since the OP does not have the thousands of dollars ($15K - $30K a month) to pay for his son’s care. So, the son would be released, given a bottle or two of meds, and released. And then is starts all over again.

 

@arbitrator - I live in NY State, not the city, upstate NY

@EleGirl - I am in counseling, I went for issues with PTSD and anxiety. She's very good. You're right in that he's lost everything so he feels he has no reason to behave. He's said basically the same thing. I've told him simple acts will earn privileges back. Clean your room, stop leaving filthy dishes in your dresser with your clothes (who does that?). Do not talk back, raise your voice, or disrespect your mother (this sets me off every time, say what you want to me, but when he gets loud with his mother I go from 0-100), pass a drug test and you'll get your door and some privacy back. Give me 2 months of peace and I'll give you a cell phone back. Stop cutting school and give your mother and I some normalcy I'll teach him to drive stick and give him my beater I commute with now. But he would rather do anything but what we ask and live with nothing. So while he has nothing now, earning stuff back really just requires being a halfway decent human being, I'm not asking for straight A's (although the kid has an IQ in the mid 140's) or 500 hours of community service, it's literally stop getting so high you can't speak and are sleeping at 4 in the afternoon, and stop yelling at your mother.

Like I said, I have a lot of crazy in my family, so does my wife, so this isn't the kids fault, he has bad mental health genetics and no coping skills. My grandfather was a felon in and out of prison, I have 2 uncles who could be classified likely as anti-social personalities who have constant run ins with the law and lifetime drug users. I have a cousin who is totally mental and hasn't left the room he grew up in in 40 years. My wife's mother died of alcoholism when she was in her 40's, her uncle is a career criminal. Alcoholism and drug use run deep in both families. But we also have architects and doctors, it's really hit or miss.

I was a loose canon when I was younger, definitely partied too much and was irresponsible, my father died when I was young and he was abusive, and his father was very abusive, so I just had my Mom and siblings once I was a teenager. The difference was I was nice, and I listened, we all got along. I still respected my Mom and I had no problem dealing with consequences myself. I moved out at 17 just to give her a break and not have to pay my way anymore. This kid is totally different, zero love, zero respect, zero accountability, just hates our guts. With my son like this my wife is incapable of handling any other relationship or finding any happiness or distraction so the marriage will end. I can, I dote on my other two kids, I have my work, my hobbies. I tell my wife "basically the boy is dead to me until he changes his attitude, he needs to change not me, I have no more rules to bend. If he does want to change and wants help at anytime, like the prodigal son I'll give him everything I can, but until then, my life marches forward as if he wasn't in it.

 

@EleGirl - I am in counseling, I went for issues with PTSD and anxiety. She's very good. You're right in that he's lost everything so he feels he has no reason to behave. He's said basically the same thing. I've told him simple acts will earn privileges back. Clean your room, stop leaving filthy dishes in your dresser with your clothes (who does that?). Do not talk back, raise your voice, or disrespect your mother (this sets me off every time, say what you want to me, but when he gets loud with his mother I go from 0-100), pass a drug test and you'll get your door and some privacy back. Give me 2 months of peace and I'll give you a cell phone back. Stop cutting school and give your mother and I some normalcy I'll teach him to drive stick and give him my beater I commute with now. But he would rather do anything but what we ask and live with nothing. So while he has nothing now, earning stuff back really just requires being a halfway decent human being, I'm not asking for straight A's (although the kid has an IQ in the mid 140's) or 500 hours of community service, it's literally stop getting so high you can't speak and are sleeping at 4 in the afternoon, and stop yelling at your mother.

You son does not do what you want because in his mind, he is winning the war. By keeping you and your wife at each other, by him breaking every rule, he is winning in his own mind.

In his mind, his war is against you. And from what you have written, you have been playing his game for a long time.

At this point, at 16 you have lost control of him. He's won. He's now basically an danger to your entire family.

I think that you really need to search for a way to get your son out of your home and probably out of his mother's home as well and away from your other kids.

It's very hard to get any help in this country for a kid who is having mental health issues.

If I were you, I'd still get him into therapy with a physiatrist. So what if he tells you that he will just lie to the therapist. Of course he will lie. That's to be expected. But a good therapist can see through his lies. Your son is probably not as a good a liar as he thinks he is.

And maybe, just maybe, the therapist will help you get your son into some facility that can help him. And its up to him whether or not he takes the help. But at least he will be away from your other children.

 

Have you consulted a lawyer about your rights?

 

Check the laws in your state about recording conversations in your home, maybe via security cams or vars.

You should have little problem getting him to explode and threaten himself or others.

It will be extremely easy to get him to blow as many times as you need to get authorities involved to take him for evaluation.

Make simple rules like he doesn't get to eat except at the table. If he tries to force past one of you with a plate of food, calmly take it and put it in the kitchen. If he gets physical or threatening in anyway, call the authorities.

Your son needs a wake up and it will be rude because minors do not get to do anything and get away with it.

I have dealt with troubled youth that labor under the illusion that adults can't do anything to them and the law is only on their side.

It is always hilarious when I physically restrain one while they are committing a crime, usually against another minor, and they say they are calling the cops. I let them know that I would be happy to call the police, several are friends, to help me arrest them.

Your son is a delusional bully that commits crimes in your home apparently whenever he feels like it.

How come he hasn't been reported?

 

You should have little problem getting him to explode and threaten himself or others.

It will be extremely easy to get him to blow as many times as you need to get authorities involved to take him for evaluation.

Exactly. Don't avoid conflict, provoke it!

Let him make his own bed. It will be in a jail cell rather than a bedroom in your home.

Just make sure he doesn't have access to any weapons.