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Please don't take the red pill....

310K views 4.1K replies 90 participants last post by  Deejo  
#1 ·
Ok Dogbert, I'm going to post a few specific things from MMSL...but please realize that is just one tiny bit of the red pill crap, which is what I'm really against. Athol Kay is just one of many people who write books and blogs about it.

You asked for specific examples from MMSL though, so that's what I will start out with here.

From the book....A section in which Athol explains to us that all women are cheating wh*res, it's biology after all:

Because ovulation is concealed and somewhat random, it forces a male partner to hang around to ensure paternity. Her sexual interest might stop and start a little during her cycle and the male has to be constantly available to have sex. Any one sex act might be the one that gets her pregnant, so it creates the need for a primary partner to pay her attention and create a serious committed relationship. This is quite excellent for holding a regular male partner around to help raise children.

The other reason ovulation is concealed is so she can cheat. There’s no possible way a male can watch his primary female partner 24/7. Everyone falls asleep or needs to use the bathroom eventually, so despite a very high level of attention a husband gives a wife, she will always have some wiggle room to disappear briefly for something quick and dirty. Because ovulation is concealed, there’s no sure way for the husband to know whether or not she was perfectly faithful even when he was watching her like a hawk.

The evolutionary purpose of this cheating is that while her primary male partner may be a good provider and pleasant companion, another male could offer her significantly better genes to impregnate her with. It’s a try and have your cake and eat it too proposition. A woman may have sex with her partner thousands of times and with a lover maybe only a handful of times, but if any of that handful of times results in a pregnancy to the lover, it’s an extremely significant outcome.

The link between ovulation and cheating is highly significant in that when she ovulates, a woman experiences a large spike in her sexual interest. Ovulation lasts only a few days, usually no more than two, but it is the highest point of sexual interest for a woman. Even quite low sex drive women can perk up and play for sexual attention during ovulation. It’s when a woman is most likely to cheat on a partner, she is most likely to orgasm and in plain simple terms when she likes sex the roughest. If you pay consistent attention to a woman, it’s usually easy enough to discover when she is ovulating. There won’t be a blatant change to her dress code from “demure angel” twenty-six days a month to “sl*tzilla” for two days a month.

She’ll generally stick to her basic appearance, but she just ups the ante slightly. Some more exposed skin, a little more attention to her makeup, a little more jewelry. Her interactions with men will be a little more attentive and flirty, with something like extra touching on the arm, eye contract and smiling.

(end quote)

This is just mean spirited and encourages men to see women as cheating wh*res. All of them. He's not talking about any particular woman he's talking about ALL of us. What kind of relationship book is built on this type of premise?

The woman's motive, in MMSL, is always to keep a beta male around to raise kids, and to have alphas on the side to cheat with. There's literally nothing in the book about love of any kind. It is all about women screwing men over in one way or another.

Suggesting that a woman likes sex the roughest during ovulation is just totally irresponsible...since some women never like rough sex and others like it rough all the time.

But keep in mind...MMSL has us all in neatly squared off boxes. All women are the same kind of cheating wh*re, with no variation.
 
#210 ·
BronzeTorpedo; said:
In the scenario where a husband wants more sex, talks to his wife, his wife tells him what her hangups are, he resolves the issue(s), and they start having more sex, that guy never goes looking for MMSL in the first place.
After looking at the Sex In Marriage portion of TAM as well as reading a number of other dead-bedrooms blog sites, I have to wonder why you think this is what happens.

In this scenario both partners are fully confident in their own desires, in touch with them, and able to communicate clearly and healthily with one another.

That sounds like literally none of the examples I have ever seen online of people actually talking about this stuff.
 
#219 ·
And that's my point. Those people never go online looking for help. They don't need it.

Just like Tiger Woods isn't trolling MMSL or PUA sites looking for tips on being attractive to women. He just is. He gets all the interest he can handle.

So, when someone comes to an online forum asking for help on reviving his/her sex life, I assume that they aren't in a healthy relationship and have already tried all the standard crap that is given in 99% of the places he/she would be looking. Therefore, "just be yourself," isn't likely to help. Also, "talk to your spouse," has likely already been tried. So, it's time to get creative. And that's what MMSL is.
 
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#213 ·
I personally think women cheat far more frequently than men.
 
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#215 ·
I found what you are citing, and you are missing something rather important: the actual statistics place a yearly-likelihood of infidelity at 6% and states that the "chance" and not the incidence, of infidelity increases over the course of a relationship.

That is a far cry from a blanket claim that ~30% of women cheat, which is both unsupported and based entirely on personal opinion.
 
#220 ·
Men haters, women haters... there are plenty of both

You know what... who cares

It is up to each individual to educate themselves on the different forms of abuse, how to avoid being abused and how to avoid being an abuser.

Abuse is everywhere and EVERYONE has the capacity to abuse.

And FWIW I think AK is a bit on the batty side. I'm glad reasonable men can find some nuggets that helped, but good golly he goes in circles to just say... "You have spoiled your princess so much that her ingratitude sucks, fix it before there isn't a relationship to fix."

I am very much a proponent of drying off a relationship when ingratitude is at a highly destructive level and putting the ingrate in their place, male or female. Big whoop, some people need a swift correction. He calls the correction tactics different names in order to differentiate himself in the market. Its marketing 101. To spend time getting offended is a waste of resources.

Some of his logic is just flat out bizzare to me. To each his own. For me, it is no secret God created order and when things get out of order, its just not as good. But, we rarely get this right and to create elaborate systems to figure it out is silly when One resource keeps the answers.
 
#223 ·
You know what. Just read the link:

Compared with Laumann et al. (1994), other authors report significantly lower prevalence statistics. General Social Surveys conducted in 1988 and 1989 showed that a mere 1.5% of married people reported having had a sexual partner other than their spouse in the year before the survey (Smith, 1991), and less than 3% of Choi, Catania, and Dolcini’s (1994) sample had engaged in EM sex in the previous 12 months.

In a 1993 probability sample that included 1194 married adults, 1.2% had EM sex in the last 30 days, 3.6% had EM sex in the last year, and 6.4% had EM sex in the last 5 years (Leigh, Temple, & Trocki, 1993). These results possibly indicate that the number of EM sexual involvements in any given year is quite low, but that over the lifetime of a relationship this number is notably higher.
In general, based on the above data, we can conclude that over the course of married, heterosexual relationships in the United States, EM sex occurs in less than 25% of committed relationships, and more men than women appear to be engaging in infidelity (Laumann et al., 1994; Wiederman, 1997). Further, these rates are significantly lower in any given year. […] (Blow & Hartnett, 2005)
 
#225 ·
Those stats are 20 years old and pre-internet rage where access is WAY easier.
 
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#227 ·
Hey... no feminist here.. I love God's traditional roles... they just work for me when my alpha is compassionate, considerate and Christ centered.
 
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#229 ·
I did find the General Social Survey from 2005. 22% of men and 13% of women admitted, in a face-to-face interview, to cheating on their spouse. And this can probably be seen as the low estimate, given the known effect of face-to-face interviews on self-reporting immoral behavior.
 
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#237 · (Edited)
I am a self-sufficient woman. I earn my own way. I own my own business. I have a WONDERFUL, sex-beyond-imagination relationship with my SO.

I travel for fun AND for learning! Last year we went to Peru, Chile, Argentina... In Europe, the year before, we went to Portugal, Spain, England, Germany, France.

You DON'T have to be a feminist (or anything REMOTELY resembling one) to have a free, independent life!

I love, Love, LOVE a man who is take-charge!! In all ways. Checks us into the hotel. Orders us room-service (including flowers and champagne, his dime)... all the way, BABY!!!

I LOVE juxtaposing my femininity against HIS masculinity. ROOOWWWWRRR....
 
#243 ·
It's from The Matrix. The red pill exposed the awful truth about how the world worked. In this context, it's that real women don't behave like the women in rom coms where they ultimately decide that the alpha male isn't good for them and their beta best friend is really their true love.
 
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#245 ·
When a man is treated like crap in spite of bending over backwards, he SHOULD rebalance himself. And visa versa...

Out of balance relationships eventually erode the partner with the heaviest burden and then the relationship dies.

Mature, well centered adults say "Hey... this burden is not only too heavy, but doesn't belong on me like this. Let's work together to fix it." If the other person isnt receptive, then survival mode kicks in "If things aren't rebalanced, I will have to remove myself from this situation as it is not sustainable." Preferably with a timeline..
 
#248 ·
The euphemisms to defend red pill and deflect criticism of it are truly mind-blowing: it's just "blunt"; a "2x4"; "self-improvement"; about "masculinity in a world where men have been feminized".

All I can say is that if you can't see that the stuff quoted below is all about hate and putting women down, then you really can't have a whole lot of respect or compassion for women to begin with.

- Because ovulation is concealed and somewhat random, it forces a male partner to hang around to ensure paternity.

- The other reason ovulation is concealed is so she can cheat.

On a biological level, the Male Body Agenda assumes that the female he is having sex with will be unfaithful.

-this sort of planned deceit on the wife’s part can happen completely unconsciously;

- “Scratch a lady, find a *****.”

-In reality, about 60% of the time the Rationalization Hamster is doing things like convincing them to not put a toddler down for a nap by way of a choke hold.

-99% of stuff women say they want is wrong,

-Women lie to themselves, and each other, as a matter of course.

-I decided to not just have rough sex with her, but to do it as hard as I could...without regard for her enjoyment or caring about her at all. I mean really, really rag doll f her like she was rented.
 
#250 ·
MMLS quotes:

Any one sex act might be the one that gets her pregnant, so it creates the need for a primary partner to pay her attention and create a serious committed relationship. This is quite excellent for holding a regular male partner around to help raise children.

The other reason ovulation is concealed is so she can cheat. There’s no possible way a male can watch his primary female partner 24/7. Everyone falls asleep or needs to use the bathroom eventually, so despite a very high level of attention a husband gives a wife, she will always have some wiggle room to disappear briefly for something quick and dirty. Because ovulation is concealed, there’s no sure way for the husband to know whether or not she was perfectly faithful even when he was watching her like a hawk.
Here is another quotes that says about the same thing......

"It is extremely politically incorrect to say so, but all women have a component of slvt in their makeup. The trick is not to fear it, seek to sanction it, or flee it, but to adapt to the presence of the slvt in your woman and harness it for your mutual enjoyment. But if you don't' pay her active attention to account for her slvt influence, you might find that it gets up to all sorts of mischief."
WTF?????!!!!!

Omg, it reads like a bad science fiction novel! I hadn't read any of MMLS before. This is the book that dorky potato-looking Athol guy wrote that is constantly referenced on TAM?

He has some serious issues. It's clear he doesn't see women as people. Disturbing.



 
#267 ·
My brother is one of the original bad boys. I actually picked up tricks from him, back in the day.

His pet name for me is Tramp.

When I call him, he picks up and says "hey Tramp".

One day he called my office and expected me to pick up the phone but it was my co-worker....he said "hey Tramp". All I could hear was her saying "Ex-CUSE me??!" and I knew exactly what had happened. "Oh sorry honey, that must be my bad boy brother".
 
#269 ·
One red pill "tenet" that I totally disagree with is that there's this "wall" that women of a certain age can't get past. NOT TRUE!

Just two examples of many:

Just found out my 51 year old widowed friend has a new boyfriend. He's in is late 20's. And no she's not a sugar momma. Unfortunately her husband didn't leave her anything and she has to work her ass off. This new guy doesn't have money either. They're just two people getting to know each other and having fun.

Second friend is the same, 51 year old widow. She also has a boyfriend and before this new guy she had no problem getting dates.
 
#272 ·
Yea, I married someone 15 years younger than my ex.

My ex married someone older than me.

Broad strokes on either side don't resonate for me.
 
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#274 ·
That passage is designed to build men up by putting women down. The men get to believe that their best years are ahead of them, plus they'll get to feel superior and laugh at all the women who didn't want them when they were young.

I think guys who buy into it do so because they want very badly to believe it's true. That's not atypical of people who are hurt - they want desperately to feel better about themselves, and they might want to hurt someone so they feel the same pain. I think most manage to move past that phase, but those that get stuck in this phase are just hurting themselves.
 
#281 ·
I agree that it is even worse because guys who are hurting find it.

I will hunt around for another book that would be better for hurting guys...something that tells them from an ACTUAL woman's point of view, "Hey! All is definitely not lost, hurt dude! Chicks dig guys like you...just get your self improvement on and excel at your own game and give it some time...." plus then encouragement in ways that will really help a guy but not make him hate us even more than he probably already does.

When people are hurt of course they will feel anger at those they feel hurt by, or their kind. For a time this will always happen...but if there was something better to offer that still appealed to his "c'mon man shake it off, we have to keep on marching" (in a supportive way) and assure him that YES, women will like you!

I'll hunt around...
 
#275 ·
That whole relative sex rank is kind of funny. I always assumed that men who went for much younger women must really suck in bed. Only a very young woman would have no idea he sucked because of her inexperience. While an older woman...he's not gonna get away with sucking in bed with her.

So older guy with young woman, he sucks in bed and she's clueless.
Older woman with older man, they're tearing up the sheets! Because they both know what they're doing!
Older woman with younger guy.. Euw! Why would anyone want to train a pup when she could have the sire?
 
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#390 ·
And what evidence would you have for such an assumption?

Here I thought the men who seek younger women do so because those women are in their physical prime with tight little bodies. Further, I thought women universally knew this, and that's why beauty products are all about making you look young again. Get rid of those grays, hide those wrinkles, etc etc.

There's a logical inconsistency in your final paragraph vs your first. The older guy with a younger woman must suck in bed, but the older woman is supposedly able to "train" a pup? Where'd she get that knowledge? Oh yeah, age/experience. It stands to reason the same applies to the man. Just sayin.
 
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#276 ·
I spend a lot of time with women 65+. Many who have found amazing husbands at that age who adore and want them, many who feel hotter than ever AND don't give a crap about the silly insecurity BS they had when they were younger so they can really just let it all out and have fun. There is plenty of life left after 40 (or 50 or 60!)
 
#280 ·
Thank The Universe that I have sane, emotionally healthy men in my life. Then again I am not the prime target of a RPer, I'm way too high in intelligence and self esteem to be of interest.

Oh and I'm over 40 lol But anyway I am having the best sex of my life at a quantity and quality level that these twits would not believe is possible. Having an intelligent, mature, high EQ man by my side is a major turn on. Wimpy, sooky pants, manipulators need not apply.
 
#282 ·
I've been to every Manosphere website that exists, reflecting on the failure of my first marriage some 18 years ago.

I think I did something worse than dread game.

It started with the "self improvement plan" because there was a Dead bedroom creeping in slowly over the years.

I think it was a comment she made "I get bored if intercourse lasts more than 3 minutes. I was gone with those words, and moved fully into a world of running and cycling.

No more full body massages to get her in the mood for my three minute timer.

Worse than dread game, it was no game She had her authority, I just walked and took control of my own destiny.

This is not a well written reply, but I'm tired.
 
#286 ·
I don't think what you did is worse than the dread game. What you did was an honest reaction to her abusive attitude.

Why wouldn't you take control of your own life and leave. Makes perfect sense to me.
 
#283 ·
Good evening all
I wish the Matrix meaning of "red pill" had not been stolen. As presented in the Matrix it was an excellent and important concept. This use is like Nazis stealing the swastika. (OK, sorry for the Godwin law violation).

If you are happy with someone, then stay together. If not, why would you want to play these sorts of games? Go find someone you will be happy with.

The whole sex rank thing drives me nuts as well. I married the girl *I* wanted. I don't care where she was on anyone else's list. If there was someone I had wanted more, I would have married them. (OK, I'm a bit overconfident, but seriously, I wouldn't have wanted someone who didn't want me).
 
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