[annarara]

no thanks -
:scratchhead:

 

[cons]

MMF???!!! Really?!!!

I am so sorry your efforts have not given more hopeful results. Do you and your husband discuss your plan outside of your sessions with the counselor? Is the counseling just being treated as a "check the box" moment ad perhaps your husband feels that by attending those...that is enough?

My husband struggles with sexual addiction and we need to discuss this as needed throughout our lives...we wouldn't get anywhere if we kept it all contained with a 50 minutes appointment and then left it by the wayside.

From my perspective, it sounds like your husband is not being open to working on this together as partners.

Hoping the best with what you decide.

 

[annarara]

Cons - yes I think it is a check the box off - by showing up he thinks that is all that is needed

 

[cons]

Yep- unfortunately, IMO, the counseling is important, but even more important, is the continued vulnerable conversations that need to take place between the two of you.

I know my husband and I are not perfect at having those discussions..sometimes his shame can take hold and he fears divulging his true feelings. Or sometimes my fears reign and my focus is so misdirected to the offense that I fail to effectively share my own boundaries... it is a continuing process...fortunately for my husband and I- we are both ALL in....and each hill we climb together has been worth it.

I would hope the same for you and your husband...but it needs to be a full joint effort to make it work...if not, it really has the potential to be a death by a thousand cuts.

 

[MountainRunner]

Yep- unfortunately, IMO, the counseling is important, but even more important, is the continued vulnerable conversations that need to take place between the two of you.

I know my husband and I are not perfect at having those discussions..sometimes his shame can take hold and he fears divulging his true feelings. Or sometimes my fears reign and my focus is so misdirected to the offense that I fail to effectively share my own boundaries... it is a continuing process...fortunately for my husband and I- we are both ALL in....and each hill we climb together has been worth it.

I would hope the same for you and your husband...but it needs to be a full joint effort to make it work...if not, it really has the potential to be a death by a thousand cuts.

I don't want to hijack, but I have to say that this post really "hits home" for me Cons. My situation/condition is similar to your husband's. For the very first time in my life, I have been "opening up" to a partner (my wife)...Scary as hell for me, but the rewards are paying off in spades for both of us. Thanks for posting.

 

[Lon]

Men are supposed to be masculine, and that means constantly without even a moments cessation for the duration of life. Any break in the visage translates to instant repulsion by virtually every desirable female. Yet there can be a huge arousal for many men to do something taboo that goes against what masculinity is supposed to be. That is where the shame is born and it is entirely rational for a man to fear his own personal thoughts or actions ever be discovered by anyone else including his spouse, the one who he is supposed to keep nothing from.

For me when I was younger, women's clothing was extremely sexualized for me, and on a few occasions I tried on ladies apparel. It never actually looked good, and it didn't take long for the shame to easily overpower the arousal, and long ago the novelty wore off. For me, I would gladly have had a sexy young girl and a wardrobe full of various undergarments to dress her in while I had my way. Images of attractive women wearing sexy clothes were all over but I could never actually touch, was never good at talking to the girls and never had a date with anyone sexually attractive to me. As a horny young kid that didn't have an outlet for my sensual and visual desires I had to get creative. That women or society would judge a guy for that is too bad, on the whole they just don't practice unconditional acceptance of something that claims no victims other than through unthoughtful stigmatization. I don't blame any guy for keeping such feelings closeted, the only thing more emasculating is to be found out, in this day and age it's 10x easier to be openly gay than to be openly enjoying of women's garments.

 

[chillymorn]

Even with women's underwear on? Has anything changed there?

I think he's gay. He can get aroused, just not with you. Recommend a three way as the only way to save your marriage. MMF. See how he interacts with the man.

this in my opinion is not a very good idea.

he most definitely is not gay he has a fetish and for the most part you can't break a fetish.

I think your well with in your right to feel the way you do.

now do what you know you need to do.
Tell him that you just can't be married to someone who hide this from you that you feel you married under false pretenses that you weren't given the choice to make the decision on your own on if you could marry someone with this fetish.

be polite but stern and set the ball in motion so you can move on with your life.


good luck

 

[annarara]

For the record I am 99.9% sure he is not gay. I think he has trust issues (with me and everyone). He is not able to open up and be honest with himself or anyone (including me). What I thought could bring us closer - in opening communication as we worked through this has more so torn us apart.

 

[Cynthia]

What I thought could bring us closer - in opening communication as we worked through this has more so torn us apart.

His fear has come upon him. He was afraid to tell the truth and now that it's out and you two are talking about it, things have gotten worse. Probably the reason why he has not been able to maintain an erection is due to this issue. If he feels ashamed when trying to make love, that is a real turn off right there.

 

[meappr01]

I fully understand the issue here. It is trust. See, I am a pantyhose loving married man. I told my wife while we were dating and she was okay with it. Then I screwed up and she found that I was admiring ladies in pantyhose on line, not porn, just nicely dressed women. That caused a her to HUGE trust issue with me.

She began questioning everything I was doing, where I was going, checking my computer, phone and anything else she could think about checking in on me about. She thought for sure I was cheating until she realized that I was home every night and during the day I was working.

Bring it to today. For the first time in 5 years we had sex together with us both in hose. she was okay with it as long as I kept it with her which she stated in our last conversation about it. Her trust in me has been rebuilt and we do have a lot of fun doing other things like camping, fishing, geocaching, and going out to dinners.

Now over the past few years, I have not been able to perform like I use to, and I have told her about this, now she takes it on as a mission to see if I can get ready to perform. When one time I wore hose, I still had the same performance issue and she worked hard to get me ready to perform and at that it was sub par in my mind.

So the biggest issue is TRUST. If there is no trust, there can be no relationship. What will it take for the OP to regain the trust? It is something that will take a long time.

Is annarara ready to make that commitment to allowing him to show that he can be trusted? From this point forward, can annarara treat the pantyhose as just a piece of clothing? (which is really is).

I know what the OP is going through and what others have said. This fetish will not go away. I have had it for 35 years. Why do I wear pantyhose? I love the feel and I love the look. I love the feeling of making love to my wife with us both wearing them. I love feeling her hands on me with me wearing them.

Now annarara, you have been dealing with this for over three years and your relationship is getting worse. Have you just once, asked him to wear them with shorts in a masculine way in front of you? You do not have to touch him, heck have him sit at a table so you cannot even see that he has them on and then judge his reaction and how he is with you. I challenge you to try it. Then talk to him about it and then talk to him about the trust and the turn off for you (again).

I do know one thing, he has a nylon gene and his brain, like mine, is wired around the feel of pantyhose. I am not sure if any of this will help. sorry for any typos

 

[lonelyhusband321]

His fear has come upon him. He was afraid to tell the truth and now that it's out and you two are talking about it, things have gotten worse. Probably the reason why he has not been able to maintain an erection is due to this issue. If he feels ashamed when trying to make love, that is a real turn off right there.

:iagree:

I think you're all over it, CD. Having been "outed" is probably damaging to him. I'm sure it hit him pretty hard.

It doesn't sound like he's really taking any measures to change anything, though and it seems like OP has VERY few options left her.

Hope everything works out for the best, OP.

 

[Cynthia]

It doesn't sound like he's really taking any measures to change anything, though and it seems like OP has VERY few options left her.

No, it doesn't sound like he is actually doing anything to resolve the problems. He has continued to lie and has pretended that he has quit, when he hasn't. What does he really want to do? What are his expectations? How does he think this can be worked out? Has he given any answers to these questions?

 

[annarara]

He claims that he has quit (has claimed this several times over the last few years and I have found them). He wears a rubber band on his wrist which he says reminds me of me and what he would lose if he does it again. I have told him if that is who he is - be that person. It just can't be with me because it is such a huge turn off to me. He claims he would rather be with me than wear the pantyhose - but??? We used to have great sex, he was flirty with me and we had a great time. Since I have discovered his secret that has all changed and at this point we are really just room mates. I really do not want to be divorced but also do not want to be in a sexless platonic marriage.

 

[Mr.Fisty]

He does not understand the fact that you lost attraction for him, and no matter what people say, it is an important component of love.

TBH, I believe that the only reason why he is placating you now is because you have one foot out the door. Fetishes and kinks, simply do not go away on will alone, if ever. It is hard wired into his sexuality. To you, he lost his masculinity, which is an important part of your attraction. Some women can handle it, but a majority cannot. He is better matched with one of those women who can. What attraction one person has, another might not have it. Who is to say he might not hate you in the future for not letting him express himself.

 

[Observer]

It sounds like you want him not only to not wear them, you want him to think it's gross too? You want him to change who he is. Look, I understand how you feel, but many have pointed out, he will always be into this, even if he supresses it. So where does that leave you? You husband has a fetish that you find extremely unattractive. Even if he does not practice it, you know he has it so that is going to stick in youre mind. I would start sorting this out and walk the logic trail here. The only hope you have to have the marriage you want is if you accept his fetish. If you cannot, you will have to divorce or settle for something you will less happy with. Good luck in your decision.

 

[Lon]

He does not understand the fact that you lost attraction for him, and no matter what people say, it is an important component of love.

TBH, I believe that the only reason why he is placating you now is because you have one foot out the door. Fetishes and kinks, simply do not go away on will alone, if ever. It is hard wired into his sexuality. To you, he lost his masculinity, which is an important part of your attraction. Some women can handle it, but a majority cannot. He is better matched with one of those women who can. What attraction one person has, another might not have it. Who is to say he might not hate you in the future for not letting him express himself.

His problem is that he likely knows clearly he's never going to be able to drop the fetish, but the woman he loves is repulsed by it and it clear to him that to be true to himself and honest with his W is a guarantee she will leave the relationship. He also realizes 99% of women would never accept him as is for a long term committed relationship, and those that would probably have some serious issues of their own which he is not capable of dealing with. If his W leaves him there is a strong likelihood he will never be in an honest, open relationship ever again, which adds to his extreme motivation to try to pretend like he can overcome this.

 

[annarara]

Lon I think you are completely correct.

 

[Lon]

Lon I think you are completely correct.

I have mixed feelings on the fact that I'm close to the truth a) it is too bad that the colour, shape or material of some inanimate object can so effectively kill attraction and be a dealbreaker?? If a relationship was good in every single way, mutual respect, love, support, and sexual fulfillment, why end such a good thing over a frivolous thing? b) if its such a frivolous thing, why does it captivate someone so much, to the point of obsession where the only way he is willing to get any kind of sexual fulfillment is by having to wear such a thing in the act of sex, every time?

The same way his appeal is so strong is I guess the same reason your revulsion is equally strong. I think it is his demonstrated extreme weakness to be able to control this impulse that is repulsive to you. If your H wore it confidently, and only on the very rare occasion, and could perform just as well without his kinky little add-on but still wanted the experience, who would be the weak one for being insecure about some panthyhose?

I think it's a pity that two people in a relationship give so much power to such a little thing, especially when it is so important with an intimate partner to be able to reveal our vulnerability. If all else is otherwise good in the relationship, work on finding a way to get past this. But I also suspect if this one little thing is of such importance, then there is a lot more wrong with the relationship than a guy putting some mesh on his legs.

 

[annarara]

This was done in secret - with only himself. I have not seen him in them - nor do I want to. The thought of it completely emasculates him to me. You are correct in that there must be more to it than a little mesh (I think were your words). It is trust, lying, lack of communication and secrecy that all plays in to the deterioration of the marriage. We saw a marriage counselor together and he lied the entire time - saying he was not doing it because the marriage was so important to him. How can the councilor work with him if he is not honest? We saw her together and one on one. I do think he as some hatred and resentment toward me. I feel mislead and a bit betrayed. He is not the man I thought I married - and I do see him in a different light unfortunately.

 

[Lon]

How you choose to see him, the part of him you know, is entirely on you. He is still the man you thought you married, just plus this extra thing. He has secret because he is not accepted unconditionally. If it's the loss of trust that causes issue for you, then let him have his thing in his own time, ask him to reveal all his other secrets and offer unconditional acceptance, and encourage him to freely pursue his masturbatory practice so long as he crosses no martial boundaries, remains faithful, is never deceitful and continues to meet your relationship needs. You are allowed to plainly tell him you have no interest in him doing this activity with you, and turn him down if he tries. If sexual needs are mutually not being met then you can both arrive together at the decision of whether or not to continue the relationship, or how to continue. Good luck, I imagine this is tough, I just think you need to detach from the idea that this kink defines who he is, and realize that this deceipt is largely circumstantial and not about his integrity of character, and likely doesn't spill over into other infidelities.