Your favorite topic of infidelity in my opinion always contains too many concrete statements.

Women are very fluid and environmentally responsive. The variables are endless.

Men usually just need a wet hole.

 

You misunderstood me. I always write and talk about the RISKS, that is, the LIKELIHOOD of infidelity. In this case, I explicitly pointed out that there may be exceptions to the rules, but that being tolerant of the dangers I mentioned is at least unwise, and to be honest, very dangerous.
And my statements are based on an analysis of tens of thousands of stories on the Internet and on my own experience, on the experience of people I know.
But I envy those who unconditionally trust their partner 100% and their trust is justified. Unfortunately, this does not always happen.

 

All sober-minded people who know real life agree that the reason for infidelity is ALWAYS only the morality of the cheater and their character traits. Cheaters belong to a huge group of people without a moral core, selfish and unreliable by nature.

I don't think it's that simple.

Such people can POTENTIALLY betray not only their relationship partners, but also colleagues, their team members, firms, the state - in general, everyone. They can become thieves, robbers, swindlers, murderers, rapists, etc. However, not everyone realizes this vicious potential, because ACTION requires not only motivation, but also favorable circumstances.

So are you saying that someone who cheated, would also murder, burgle and/or rape, in the right circumstances?

So, "opportunity makes the thief".
I would paraphrase this proverb like this: "opportunity makes the cheater."

That theory oversimplifies the complexity of human behaviour and infidelity.

If opportunity makes a cheater, then theoretically, everyone who finds themselves in the right circumstances would cheat every single time and act the same way. People vary widely in how they handle and feel temptation though. Even with cheaters, you can put them in the same scenario number of times without them cheating because it's more than just opportunity. And some people are opportunistic cheaters, but if some people really want to cheat they will make it happen - they don't need to sit around and wait for the opportunity to fall into their lap.

1) Why, in God's name, do people allow their SOs to go without them to "relax" in bars or nightclubs, when it is known that these facilities are essentially dating/meeting places for sex in various forms??
2) Why the hell do people allow their SOs to go to a mixed-sex gym without them, when it is known that it is a place where people (willingly or unwittingly) are openly demonstrating their secondary sexual characteristics, semi-naked tight bodies to members of the opposite sex, when it is known that such a gym is a disguised brothel??? Why do people allow that their SOs personal trainers are representatives of the opposite sex?? Why aren't there gym for men and women separately or are there very few of them???
3) Why are people calm about girls/boys trips when it is known that the company of single boys/girls join the company of single girls/boys in places of entertainment in almost 100% of cases??
4) Why are people so tolerant of spending their SOs time with their "friends" of the opposite sex ONE-ON-ONE on "serious" entertainment related to art, nature, etc.? Why don't they understand that such a "friendship" with common interests/hobbies will certainly end in at least an emotional affair??
5) Why don't people demand strict boundaries from their SOs at bachelor/bachelorette parties and don't take partners control measures when it is known how often the party ends with drugs and strippers, when it is known that after the end of the "official" part, in many cases, exes, acquaintances or strangers of the opposite sex join the companies??
6) Why don't people object to their partners' excessive fascination with online and board games when they begin to have a clear increased interest in a particular person of the opposite sex??

Healthy relationships are built on trust, not control. The way you word these things is controlling - the spouse can decide what they are comfortable with and willing to accept in a marriage, but they can't refuse to allow their spouse to do something. Yes, all of those things COULD create opportunities for cheating - but opportunity alone doesn't make someone betray their partner. Many people go to these places or have these experiences without ever being unfaithful because they choose to guard their marriage. When boundaries are discussed openly and both partners are on the same page and feel safe and respected, they can enjoy freedom without fear.

And each individual relationship will have reasons why they are or are not okay with the things on that list.

Why don't we adhere to the simplest rule: if you are in an official monogamous relationship, then you should relax/have fun only in activities with your partner's participation, and not with other "chosen" representative of the opposite sex?
Freedom is not anarchy, but responsibility!
Rights entail responsibilities!
If you don't like responsibility or boundaries in a relationship, then get out of the relationship! Marriage, any official relationship is not a prison, not an army, not a strict regime mental hospital that cannot be left voluntarily and at any moment.

Marriage isn't meant to be a prison or erase individuality. People can have friendships, hobbies, or outings that don't involve their spouse and still remain completely faithful. The key is trust, communication, mutual respect, an agreement on what guarding the marriage looks like, etc. Healthy boundaries aren't about shutting out all these different aspects of life. If someone feels like they have to police every move their spouse makes and blanket ban all these things without good reasoning, they've got issues.

 

Marriage isn't meant to be a prison or erase individuality. People can have friendships, hobbies, or outings that don't involve their spouse and still remain completely faithful. The key is trust, communication, mutual respect, an agreement on what guarding the marriage looks like, etc. Healthy boundaries aren't about shutting out all these different aspects of life. If someone feels like they have to police every move their spouse makes and blanket ban all these things without good reasoning, they've got issues.

Exactly! Cheating is facilitated by brain chemistry. If one learns how to keep the chemistry at bay one can do many of those things. The thing that works for me is the adoption of proper boundaries and transparency. Unfortunately, these things are not taught or learned by most.

 

You’re basically saying that living life leads to infidelity and and keeping one’s spouse under lock and key is the way to assure fidelity.

 

To me it just means people should take more time in vetting a possible spouse. Choose a woman/man that believes same as you about inappropriate behaviors for BF/GF, hubby/wife to see what is in their head.

 

Why don't people object to their partners' excessive fascination with online and board games when they begin to have a clear increased interest in a particular person of the opposite sex??

I think the problem there is more about the interest in the "particular person" rather than about board games.

 

But this "particular person" for the cheater participates in these games, and the cheater gets to know them precisely in the process of this activity! Many stories confirm my claim that online games are one of the most significant sources of infidelity.

 

From MY Experience and those who I know who have had their Wives cheat, the most common place where the affairs start is --Coworkers-- (aka Their work). - Reason, they spend a lot of time together and have a lot of interaction. (Are all people going to cheat at work, of course not, but if your spouse starts talking about one particular person over and over, this is a neon glowing red flag) This also can apply to Husbands also. (It goes both ways).

If you reflect back in your memory, almost everyone here has scene someone who is married fooling around with one of their coworkers. It is what it is. Its the place were they spend more time with other people than anywhere else.

Now with that said, if your spouse is going to cheat, they are going to cheat. There is nothing you can do to stop them from doing this. All you can really do is watch for red flags and set boundaries. If they violate your boundaries, you need to be willing to walk away. Dating is a period of time to learn who you are seeing. You should date your partner for a long period of time in order to see who they really are. People can only "pretend" so long. Example, I would recommend you date someone for at least 3 years before the marriage talk is placed upon the table.

Also from my youth and previous experience on OP's original list:

1. Bars, night clubs. (Your spouse shouldn't be going to these places. If they want to act single, make them single)
2.Gym, tennis, other sports activities. - I personally haven't really seen people "start affairs" at sporting events. The affair has usually already started before they go to these events (Usually with Coworkers). The Gym on the other hand, I've seen affairs start at the gym. That usually is the case when one spouse does not go to the gym and the other spends hours at the gym beyond what is normal. (I generally go lift for 30-60 mins). If someone was at the gym for 2-3 hours, its a red flag.
3.Girls/boys trips. - Girls Night Out - When I was single, I used go out, see girls on "Girls Night Out" (If they went to a club/bar) they would usually engage in cheating behavior. Generally if your spouse does offer or allow you to go out on these "Night Outs" its a red flag. Trips are absolutely a no go boundary for Me & My friends. Our wives even agree, why in the world would you want to go on vacation without your spouse. (Example, my wife is not going to Hawaii with her "Single Friends" without me. Likewise, my wife would not allow me to go to Hawaii without her)

General rule. Look at the friends, if they are all single, looking for hookups, etc.... Your spouse will be doing the same thing if they go. If they are all married and going to a Religious Retreat or something (And none of them are known cheaters), the odds are way in favor they aren't going to do anything.

4.Visits to cinemas, theaters, parks, natural attractions, concerts, exhibitions, etc. - Out of these events, I have not hear of anyone I know whos spouse started an affair at any of these events. Generally it started at their job (coworker) then they went to one of these events.
5.Bachelor/bachelorette parties. - Now I'm going to say something on these that may ruffle feathers with some. If any of these events involves a Stripper, I would agree, there is a high likelihood of cheating. In my twenties, I had a buddy who worked as a male stripper at "Girls Club". He and his co-workers told me that in 90%+ of the time, when women came into the "club" for a Bachelorette party, the soon to be bride would cheat in some way. They also told me in 100% of the cases, someone in the Bachelorette party would cheat in some way. The girls will encourage each other to do it and someone will cave to the pressure. (They told me the "Honest" girls would generally leave the club and go home after about 5 minutes because they would feel uncomfortable.). ---- Like I said, this is what they told me. I have no knowledge on the reverse if true at "Gentlemen Clubs".
5.Online or table games. - I personally have not seen any of my friends have any experience of someone cheating on them via online games or tables.

 

All sober-minded people who know real life agree that the reason for infidelity is ALWAYS only the morality of the cheater and their character traits.
Cheaters belong to a huge group of people without a moral core, selfish and unreliable by nature. Such people can POTENTIALLY betray not only their relationship partners, but also colleagues, their team members, firms, the state - in general, everyone. They can become thieves, robbers, swindlers, murderers, rapists, etc. However, not everyone realizes this vicious potential, because ACTION requires not only motivation, but also favorable circumstances. So, "opportunity makes the thief".
I would paraphrase this proverb like this: "opportunity makes the cheater."
Experience shows that the PRETEXT (not the reason!) for Infidelity is caused not only by proximity between a potential cheater and a potential AP at work, in the neighborhood, with exes or relatives (their own and partner's), not only by passion on popular erotic and dating sites. A huge number of affairs begin in the most popular places where people of Western (particularly American) civilization spend their leisure time WITHOUT THEIR COMMITTED PARTNERS.
I will name these places in order according to my estimate of the relative number of affairs beginning/occurring in them.
1. Bars, night clubs.
2.Gym, tennis, other sports activities.
3.Girls/boys trips.
4.Visits to cinemas, theaters, parks, natural attractions, concerts, exhibitions, etc.
5.Bachelor/bachelorette parties.
5.Online or table games.
etc.
Several questions immediately arise about each of these activities.
1) Why, in God's name, do people allow their SOs to go without them to "relax" in bars or nightclubs, when it is known that these facilities are essentially dating/meeting places for sex in various forms??
2) Why the hell do people allow their SOs to go to a mixed-sex gym without them, when it is known that it is a place where people (willingly or unwittingly) are openly demonstrating their secondary sexual characteristics, semi-naked tight bodies to members of the opposite sex, when it is known that such a gym is a disguised brothel??? Why do people allow that their SOs personal trainers are representatives of the opposite sex?? Why aren't there gym for men and women separately or are there very few of them???
3) Why are people calm about girls/boys trips when it is known that the company of single boys/girls join the company of single girls/boys in places of entertainment in almost 100% of cases??
4) Why are people so tolerant of spending their SOs time with their "friends" of the opposite sex ONE-ON-ONE on "serious" entertainment related to art, nature, etc.? Why don't they understand that such a "friendship" with common interests/hobbies will certainly end in at least an emotional affair??
5) Why don't people demand strict boundaries from their SOs at bachelor/bachelorette parties and don't take partners control measures when it is known how often the party ends with drugs and strippers, when it is known that after the end of the "official" part, in many cases, exes, acquaintances or strangers of the opposite sex join the companies??
6) Why don't people object to their partners' excessive fascination with online and board games when they begin to have a clear increased interest in a particular person of the opposite sex??
And so on, and so force.
...................................................
I understand that affairs may not occur during the aforementioned activities, but the exceptions only confirm the rule. We cannot deny the enormous risks of such "personal freedom" for people in a committed relationship.
Why don't we adhere to the simplest rule: if you are in an official monogamous relationship, then you should relax /have fun only in activities with your partner's participation, and not with other "chosen" representative of the opposite sex?
Freedom is not anarchy, but responsibility!
Rights entail responsibilities!
If you don't like responsibility or boundaries in a relationship, then get out of the relationship! Marriage, any official relationship is not a prison, not an army, not a strict regime mental hospital that cannot be left voluntarily and at any moment.

I think this is a joke

 

Unfortunately, this is not a joke, but the truth, which naive or enthusiastic people do not want to see.
And they pay for it sooner or later.
I wish you would never experience infidelity.

 

All sober-minded people who know real life agree that the reason for infidelity is ALWAYS only the morality of the cheater and their character traits.
Cheaters belong to a huge group of people without a moral core, selfish and unreliable by nature. Such people can POTENTIALLY betray not only their relationship partners, but also colleagues, their team members, firms, the state - in general, everyone. They can become thieves, robbers, swindlers, murderers, rapists, etc. However, not everyone realizes this vicious potential, because ACTION requires not only motivation, but also favorable circumstances. So, "opportunity makes the thief".
I would paraphrase this proverb like this: "opportunity makes the cheater."
Experience shows that the PRETEXT (not the reason!) for Infidelity is caused not only by proximity between a potential cheater and a potential AP at work, in the neighborhood, with exes or relatives (their own and partner's), not only by passion on popular erotic and dating sites. A huge number of affairs begin in the most popular places where people of Western (particularly American) civilization spend their leisure time WITHOUT THEIR COMMITTED PARTNERS.
I will name these places in order according to my estimate of the relative number of affairs beginning/occurring in them.
1. Bars, night clubs.
2.Gym, tennis, other sports activities.
3.Girls/boys trips.
4.Visits to cinemas, theaters, parks, natural attractions, concerts, exhibitions, etc.
5.Bachelor/bachelorette parties.
5.Online or table games.
etc.
Several questions immediately arise about each of these activities.
1) Why, in God's name, do people allow their SOs to go without them to "relax" in bars or nightclubs, when it is known that these facilities are essentially dating/meeting places for sex in various forms??
2) Why the hell do people allow their SOs to go to a mixed-sex gym without them, when it is known that it is a place where people (willingly or unwittingly) are openly demonstrating their secondary sexual characteristics, semi-naked tight bodies to members of the opposite sex, when it is known that such a gym is a disguised brothel??? Why do people allow that their SOs personal trainers are representatives of the opposite sex?? Why aren't there gym for men and women separately or are there very few of them???
3) Why are people calm about girls/boys trips when it is known that the company of single boys/girls join the company of single girls/boys in places of entertainment in almost 100% of cases??
4) Why are people so tolerant of spending their SOs time with their "friends" of the opposite sex ONE-ON-ONE on "serious" entertainment related to art, nature, etc.? Why don't they understand that such a "friendship" with common interests/hobbies will certainly end in at least an emotional affair??
5) Why don't people demand strict boundaries from their SOs at bachelor/bachelorette parties and don't take partners control measures when it is known how often the party ends with drugs and strippers, when it is known that after the end of the "official" part, in many cases, exes, acquaintances or strangers of the opposite sex join the companies??
6) Why don't people object to their partners' excessive fascination with online and board games when they begin to have a clear increased interest in a particular person of the opposite sex??
And so on, and so force.
...................................................
I understand that affairs may not occur during the aforementioned activities, but the exceptions only confirm the rule. We cannot deny the enormous risks of such "personal freedom" for people in a committed relationship.
Why don't we adhere to the simplest rule: if you are in an official monogamous relationship, then you should relax /have fun only in activities with your partner's participation, and not with other "chosen" representative of the opposite sex?
Freedom is not anarchy, but responsibility!
Rights entail responsibilities!
If you don't like responsibility or boundaries in a relationship, then get out of the relationship! Marriage, any official relationship is not a prison, not an army, not a strict regime mental hospital that cannot be left voluntarily and at any moment.

So basically, you had a nugget of a correct idea there, and then jumped off an autistic cliff with it.

-Standards and boundaries in a marriage are good and necessary - yes.
-Avoiding inappropriate and particularly dangerous situations (booze + lowered inhibitions + immediate and plentiful opposite-sex temptations) is wise - yes.
-Going out clubbing and partying with the girls - negative.
-Going out and spending alone time with an opposite sex friend - nope.
-Girls trip with single friends to Cancun, Vegas, etc - NO. (However, trip with a married friend or two to the quilting convention, probably ok)
-Focusing on one’s spouse as the most important relationship priority in one’s life and making sure to spend as much fun / going-out time with them as reasonably possible - yes, good idea.

…and then you lost the plot.
-No, your spouse should not be your only social / activity outlet.
-Yes, you should actually participate in activities with friends (or alone) that don’t involve your spouse.
-Yes, it’s ok to go to the gym without your spouse. (private 1-1 personal training sessions with Sven - probably not).
-Yes, it’s ok to go to cinemas, theaters, parks, natural attractions without your spouse.

Boundaries good, common sense good, avoiding inappropriate activities/environments good.
Warden/jailor dynamic bad, fear of letting your spouse go to the park/gym/theater without you bad.

Also, your logic seems contradictory.
You start out painting all cheaters as inherently flawed, broken, morally bankrupt (who therefore would presumably find a way to cheat regardless of the circumstances).
And then you embark on this manifesto about avoiding any situation that could have any remotely possible chance of leading to a scenario where a risk of infidelity might develop, and basically being joined at the hip when outside of the house (i.e. I can’t let my spouse near any type of potentially social situation alone, or they might be tempted to cheat).

 

You are repeating a well-known cliche about trust, freedom and personal space, etc. I'm glad if it works for you, but for the hundreds of millions of people affected by infidelity, it didn't work.
If your partner/ex is perfect and has never had an EA/PA, you're just unusually lucky. But if I were you, I wouldn't be so sure about them.
Trust, but verify.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, why haven't any of you spoken out on mixed sex gyms and on personal trainers of the opposite sex (tennis, golf, fitness, etc.) so far??

 

I don't have a problem with it, just like most of the scenarios you typed. I feel like you view the world as a place where people, but mostly women are looking to cheat, and don't have the impulse control to stop themselves when away from their partners.

 

People might be more understanding of whatever your personal issue is if you told us why infidelity is your only topic on all your threads. You may also want to explain why you seem to think it’s more an issue with Americans.

 

All sober-minded people who know real life agree that the reason for infidelity is ALWAYS only the morality of the cheater and their character traits.
Cheaters belong to a huge group of people without a moral core, selfish and unreliable by nature. Such people can POTENTIALLY betray not only their relationship partners, but also colleagues, their team members, firms, the state - in general, everyone. They can become thieves, robbers, swindlers, murderers, rapists, etc. However, not everyone realizes this vicious potential, because ACTION requires not only motivation, but also favorable circumstances. So, "opportunity makes the thief".
I would paraphrase this proverb like this: "opportunity makes the cheater."
Experience shows that the PRETEXT (not the reason!) for Infidelity is caused not only by proximity between a potential cheater and a potential AP at work, in the neighborhood, with exes or relatives (their own and partner's), not only by passion on popular erotic and dating sites. A huge number of affairs begin in the most popular places where people of Western (particularly American) civilization spend their leisure time WITHOUT THEIR COMMITTED PARTNERS.
I will name these places in order according to my estimate of the relative number of affairs beginning/occurring in them.
1. Bars, night clubs.
2.Gym, tennis, other sports activities.
3.Girls/boys trips.
4.Visits to cinemas, theaters, parks, natural attractions, concerts, exhibitions, etc.
5.Bachelor/bachelorette parties.
5.Online or table games.
etc.
Several questions immediately arise about each of these activities.
1) Why, in God's name, do people allow their SOs to go without them to "relax" in bars or nightclubs, when it is known that these facilities are essentially dating/meeting places for sex in various forms??
2) Why the hell do people allow their SOs to go to a mixed-sex gym without them, when it is known that it is a place where people (willingly or unwittingly) are openly demonstrating their secondary sexual characteristics, semi-naked tight bodies to members of the opposite sex, when it is known that such a gym is a disguised brothel??? Why do people allow that their SOs personal trainers are representatives of the opposite sex?? Why aren't there gym for men and women separately or are there very few of them???
3) Why are people calm about girls/boys trips when it is known that the company of single boys/girls join the company of single girls/boys in places of entertainment in almost 100% of cases??
4) Why are people so tolerant of spending their SOs time with their "friends" of the opposite sex ONE-ON-ONE on "serious" entertainment related to art, nature, etc.? Why don't they understand that such a "friendship" with common interests/hobbies will certainly end in at least an emotional affair??
5) Why don't people demand strict boundaries from their SOs at bachelor/bachelorette parties and don't take partners control measures when it is known how often the party ends with drugs and strippers, when it is known that after the end of the "official" part, in many cases, exes, acquaintances or strangers of the opposite sex join the companies??
6) Why don't people object to their partners' excessive fascination with online and board games when they begin to have a clear increased interest in a particular person of the opposite sex??
And so on, and so force.
...................................................
I understand that affairs may not occur during the aforementioned activities, but the exceptions only confirm the rule. We cannot deny the enormous risks of such "personal freedom" for people in a committed relationship.
Why don't we adhere to the simplest rule: if you are in an official monogamous relationship, then you should relax /have fun only in activities with your partner's participation, and not with other "chosen" representative of the opposite sex?
Freedom is not anarchy, but responsibility!
Rights entail responsibilities!
If you don't like responsibility or boundaries in a relationship, then get out of the relationship! Marriage, any official relationship is not a prison, not an army, not a strict regime mental hospital that cannot be left voluntarily and at any moment.

There are some good points in here, but overall it sounds like the only safe marriage is one where both people are under 24-hour surveillance.

Cheating is always a moral failing, no one “accidentally” falls into an affair. But equating cheaters with thieves or murderers isn’t accurate or useful.

You also seem to contradict yourself. If infidelity is only about morality, then all those bars, gyms, and trips shouldn’t matter. A cheater will cheat anywhere. If opportunity matters, then it’s not just about “bad people,” it’s also about boundaries and choices.

That said, not every cheater starts out with a rotten moral core. In many cases, infidelity develops gradually because of circumstances. Proximity, emotional connection, or repeated temptation. That’s where personal boundaries, shared marital boundaries, and respect for your spouse and your vows make all the difference. And I think that’s really where you’re going with most of your post, that opportunity may present itself anywhere, but it’s how people handle it that determines whether or not it becomes an affair.

Going down your list.

1. Bars, night clubs.

When it comes to bars and nightclubs, I tend to agree they’re risky ground for married people. In my view, they really are “singles environments” by design. Every woman who walks into a nightclub is going to be viewed as an opportunity by a lot of men there. That’s the whole point of the setting. And yes, it’s a generalization, but it explains why “ladies’ night” exists. These places are built around flirting, attraction, and hooking up, not around strengthening marriages.

Not to mention, as a man I want to protect my wife and sadly, safety can be an issue in those environments. Alcohol, strangers, and late nights can create situations that aren’t just about fidelity, but about basic personal safety.

2.Gym, tennis, other sports activities.

Gyms and sports are more of a gray area for me. I think the biggest risk of infidelity for someone who isn’t already morally bankrupt is simply spending too much time with someone where potential attraction exists. That’s why workplace affairs are so common. The hours together naturally build a relationship, and the lines can easily get blurred if boundaries aren’t in place.

So just going to a coed gym to work out doesn’t strike me as a big risk, unless the person already has weak morals or intentions. But when it comes to things like spending several hours a week with an opposite-sex personal trainer, or constantly playing pickleball or tennis one-on-one with another man or woman, that crosses into inappropriate in my view. You can’t avoid being around coworkers, but you can choose who you spend extra time with at the gym or in recreational activities. That’s where strong personal boundaries make all the difference.

3.Girls/boys trips.

When it comes to girls’ or boys’ trips, for me that’s a hard no. I see no reason for a married person to go away on overnight trips for pure pleasure without their spouse. Visiting family is one thing, but recreational getaways are different.

If my wife wanted a girls’ weekend at a spa, I’d just go too and the other husbands could come along if they wanted. The women could spend all day together, but at the end of the night, we’d still be together as couples. To me, that’s a healthy balance.

Spouses who don’t object to their partner taking overnight trips with single friends are just inviting trouble. The risk and opportunity are simply too high to justify.

4.Visits to cinemas, theaters, parks, natural attractions, concerts, exhibitions, etc.

I don’t really see an issue with things like movies, concerts, parks, or exhibitions as long as it’s with same-sex friends. But if it’s one-on-one with someone of the opposite sex, that’s basically a date, and that’s obviously a no.

The key here is that it shouldn’t take away from quality time with your spouse. Going out with friends is fine, but your husband or wife should still be the first person you share those experiences with, not the one left at home while you make memories with someone else.

5.Bachelor/bachelorette parties.

Bachelor and bachelorette parties are another hard line for me. Too often they involve alcohol, strippers, and situations that blur, or outright cross, boundaries. Even if not everyone ends up cheating, the environment is built around pushing limits, and I don’t see how that lines up with honoring a marriage. If the celebration is something wholesome, like golfing, a spa day, or a nice dinner, that’s different. But the stereotype exists for a reason, and putting yourself in that kind of situation is just asking for trouble.

At the end of the day, if you’re serious about respecting your spouse, you don’t knowingly walk into an environment designed to test your vows.

5.Online or table games.

I’m not even sure what to say about the “online or table games” point. Just because people can meet through games doesn’t make the games themselves a problem. People can connect through work, church, volunteering, or even standing in line at the grocery store. Affairs don’t come from the hobby itself — they come from poor boundaries and bad choices.

The real red flag is when someone starts giving more attention to a gaming partner than to their spouse, and especially when they start hiding what they’re doing. That’s when it crosses the line from a hobby into something that threatens the marriage.



For me, the simplest guideline is this: enjoy activities that strengthen your marriage, and avoid situations that take away from your spouse or look like you’re in a relationship with someone else. Boundaries aren’t about controlling your partner, they’re about protecting what you both value.

Freedom in marriage does come with responsibility, but responsibility doesn’t mean locking each other down or never doing anything apart. It means respecting your spouse enough to guard the trust between you. If someone can’t do that, then you’re right, they shouldn’t be in a committed relationship.

 

Bachelor and bachelorette parties are another hard line for me. Too often they involve alcohol, strippers, and situations that blur, or outright cross, boundaries. Even if not everyone ends up cheating, the environment is built around pushing limits, and I don’t see how that lines up with honoring a marriage. If the celebration is something wholesome, like golfing, a spa day, or a nice dinner, that’s different. But the stereotype exists for a reason, and putting yourself in that kind of situation is just asking for trouble.

To me, this is why all the details should be taken into consideration (which I think you pretty much said too, so not disagreeing with you).

All of my friends have done long weekend bachelor parties. My wife doesn't have a hard no rule for bachelor parties, but has always asked what we will be doing, who will be there, and will strippers be involved - and she wanted me to ask and make sure they wouldn't be there, not just assume they wouldn't. If strippers were planned, then she was really against it.

Plans change in the moment sometimes. Two bachelor parties were at lakehouses, and supposed to be just a guys weekend - no strippers, no girls. Both times they went out bar hopping and brought girls back. I went to my room or went outside and just called her to talk instead. I had no interest in that crap, I know she wouldn't like it, and it helped her trust me in situations like that.

 

You're really off base on all of this.

As I already explained in my comments, I'm talking about RISKS, that is, dangerous scenarios that can be implemented, and maybe not. In this case, the risk is very high and this is confirmed by many examples. Read, for example, the stories on the relevant Reddit subs. Yes, there's a lot of fiction on Reddit, but it's on infidelity blogs that probably every third or fourth REAL affair starts at the gym.

There is zero credible evidence that 25% to 33% of affairs start at the gym. Reddit and blogs are not credible sources. They have selection bias. People are more likely to share dramatic “gym affair” stories, which creates the illusion that it’s more common than it really is. If it really were that percentage it would be at the top of every survey about infidelity. A realistic estimate based on actual data is something closer to 5-10% start at a gym. Workplace and online/social media are what is always at the top of the list.

And this is understandable, because the physical proximity of half-naked and showing off their "charms" bodies of men and women cannot but cause sexual tension. Especially if their partners/spouses with not great proportions are waiting for them at home.
But I still haven't received an opinion on why the gym almost always functions as a mixed sex workout?
If I go to the gym just to improve my physical condition, why should I be the object of sexual attention from many strangers of the opposite sex (and this happens in 100% of cases)?

Do you even go to a gym? You have an odd perception of what goes on at the gym. Some of the younger women do dress in tight fitting clothes that leave little to the imagination, I'll give you that. As for the idea that you’re “100%” an object of sexual attention, come on really? That’s just not realistic. Most people are focused on their sets, not sexualizing strangers. Attraction can happen in any mixed environment, but it’s not the default motive for why gyms operate the way they do.

Why don't I go to a gym where both the trainees and the coaches are of the same sex as me?
Are they not nearby or not at all?

There are very, very few gyms that aren't coed. Gyms already struggle to stay in business, now you're going to split the customer base? If it were a viable business model it would already be happening in greater numbers.

Or do I just want to get two in one - to train my body and at the same time demonstrate my charms with the conscious or subconscious goal of finding a sexual partner?
I think the potential cheaters answer YES to the last question!

Most people go to the gym for health, not hookups. Cheaters can use any setting, work, travel, online, so the gym isn’t special in that sense. Workout clothes are for function, not seduction, and assuming everyone is “showing off” is just projecting. The vast majority are focused on their own fitness, not advertising for affairs.

 

You're really off base on all of this.



There is zero credible evidence that 25% to 33% of affairs start at the gym. Reddit and blogs are not credible sources. They have selection bias. People are more likely to share dramatic “gym affair” stories, which creates the illusion that it’s more common than it really is. If it really were that percentage it would be at the top of every survey about infidelity. A realistic estimate based on actual data is something closer to 5-10% start at a gym. Workplace and online/social media are what is always at the top of the list.



Do you even go to a gym? You have an odd perception of what goes on at the gym. Some of the younger women do dress in tight fitting clothes that leave little to the imagination, I'll give you that. As for the idea that you’re “100%” an object of sexual attention, come on really? That’s just not realistic. Most people are focused on their sets, not sexualizing strangers. Attraction can happen in any mixed environment, but it’s not the default motive for why gyms operate the way they do.


There are very, very few gyms that aren't coed. Gyms already struggle to stay in business, now you're going to split the customer base? If it were a viable business model it would already be happening in greater numbers.


Most people go to the gym for health, not hookups. Cheaters can use any setting, work, travel, online, so the gym isn’t special in that sense. Workout clothes are for function, not seduction, and assuming everyone is “showing off” is just projecting. The vast majority are focused on their own fitness, not advertising for affairs.

Please read my post carefully. I'm talking about RISKS, OPPORTUNITIES, and statistics. And I'm talking about cheaters who belong to the category of people with corrupt morals.
About statistics. Yes, the Internet is imperfect, yes, it's full of made-up stories. But! At the same time, especially on thematic sites, most of the stories are true. Truth can be distinguished from fiction. And we have no other available sources to draw conclusions from.
If you don't agree with me, answer the question: WHY DOES A HUGE NUMBER OF AFFAIRS START IN the GYM, as well as with personal trainers of the opposite sex???

 

Unfortunately, it is very widely believed that dancing is innocent. This is true for children under about 11 years of age.
Dancing is a socially sanctioned public touching, an embrace in motion between two people of the opposite sex to music.
Now imagine that the music has stopped, and the partners continue to hug, move and touch each other. What has changed?
If I start hugging a member of the opposite sex without music in the same bar or on the street, what would you say to that?
What changes music and movements to music?
Nothing!!
Dance has always been and remains now either an expression of militancy or an expression of sexuality.
Can you object to me?

I’d push back on the idea that nothing changes when music is added. Context changes everything. Hugging a stranger on the street is weird because it violates social norms. Moving together to music on a dance floor doesn’t, because culturally we all understand it as a dance. The same physical actions can carry very different meanings depending on setting, culture, and intent.

That said I agree with you for the most part. In addition to expression of militancy or an expression of sexuality dance has also served religious, artistic, and purely celebratory roles. So again, context comes into play.

Out for a night of fun with the "girls" at a club is pretty much always going to have a sexuality component. The environment, the music, the way people dress, and the way they dance are all charged with flirtation. That’s a very different context than, say, a wedding reception or a cultural festival where dancing has a communal, artistic, or celebratory meaning.

For some reason, everyone is convinced that a person who has a committed partner can dance with anyone, however and for as long as they want. And the committed partners even encourage their SOs classes in dance studios without being their pairs. And they calmly look at how their SOs hugs and touches others for a long time on dance floors, laughing and flirting! Then it's not surprising if the partners who dance together a lot quickly move on to EA, and then to PA. Even a single dance with sexual tension can give rise to an affair.
If I'm wrong, object to me.

I don’t think you’re entirely wrong. Dancing with someone outside the marriage can create risk if boundaries aren’t respected. Long, repeated close dancing with the same partner, mixed with flirtation, definitely blurs the line between innocent fun and intimacy. That’s why many couples set boundaries on that kind of environment.

But to say that “everyone” believes their spouse can dance with anyone however they like, hug and flirt on the dance floor, that's utter nonsense. Plenty of people in strong marriages do draw boundaries. Some won’t dance with others at all, others will only in group or family settings, and others are fine with the occasional dance but not ongoing closeness. I can't imagine many people being okay with straight up flirting on the dance floor. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

 

But I still haven't received an opinion on why the gym almost always functions as a mixed sex workout?
Why don't I go to a gym where both the trainees and the coaches are of the same sex as me?
Are they not nearby or not at all?

The short answer, because it's the most efficient and profitable model.

Fitness facilities have heavy fixed costs - real estate, utilities, equipment, payroll, insurance, etc. To cover that, you want the largest possible membership base, to get as many paying member as possible. If you cut your potential market in half by going men-only or women-only, your margins collapse unless you increase prices, and most people will not pay a premium for that.

Women-only spaces exist because there is some demand - women cite safety and comfort, mainly - but they're usually run as a niche or a section of a larger, co-ed facility. It’s a way to serve that niche without killing the economics of the larger business. On the men’s side, there’s no demand. And no, that's not because they want to look at asses and camel toes all day. It's because men don't feel the same social barriers to working out in co-ed gyms. Niche male spaces do exist, such as powerlifting gyms and MMA gyms, which naturally attract more men, but they're usually open to everyone.

Bottom line, co-ed gyms maximize revenue and efficiency, women-only gyms exist because there's SOME demand, and men-only gyms are few and far between because the demand just isn't there.

Why don't more women want to use-women-only spaces? Typically those spaces are limited - they have less variety in free weights, machines, and functional areas, and don't have the same roster of specialized trainers or classes - so, women will use the co-ed spaces to access what they want/need. Using co-ed spaces can also be a personal preference. Some women say female-only spaces are patronizing because historically, women weren't welcome in male-dominated spaces like gyms. Some women need a gym that is close to home or work, and women-only spaces are harder to find due to less demand. Some women need gyms that have a daycare, which is getting hard to find these days. Some women just want the best facility, the best coaching, and certain classes or the most diverse set of classes. To get that, they stick to co-ed because that's where the better resources are.

If I go to the gym just to improve my physical condition, why should I be the object of sexual attention from many strangers of the opposite sex (and this happens in 100% of cases)?
Or do I just want to get two in one - to train my body and at the same time demonstrate my charms with the conscious or subconscious goal of finding a sexual partner?

"100% of cases" - no. Be honest, have you ever been in a gym? Most people there are focused on their own workout, not staring at strangers. Yes, there will be attention sometimes, but thinking EVERY woman or man there is checking you out says more about your mindset than reality. People are paying a lot less attention to you than you think they are.

Gyms are fitness businesses, not "brothels in disguise", and motives are not binary. People go to the gym for fitness, physical health, mental health, stress relief, training for a sport, and yes, to look good. That doesn't automatically equal "I'm here to find a sexual partner". Even the clothing worn, to an extent, isn't some covert mating call.

If you're convinced everyone is there to "demonstrate their charms" or that you'd automatically be the object of attention, you're projecting, not observing. So again, do you even go to the gym? Have you EVER? Because your perception of them doesn't match reality.

 

The short answer, because it's the most efficient and profitable model.

Fitness facilities have heavy fixed costs - real estate, utilities, equipment, payroll, insurance, etc. To cover that, you want the largest possible membership base, to get as many paying member as possible. If you cut your potential market in half by going men-only or women-only, your margins collapse unless you increase prices, and most people will not pay a premium for that.

Women-only spaces exist because there is some demand - women cite safety and comfort, mainly - but they're usually run as a niche or a section of a larger, co-ed facility. It’s a way to serve that niche without killing the economics of the larger business. On the men’s side, there’s no demand. And no, that's not because they want to look at asses and camel toes all day. It's because men don't feel the same social barriers to working out in co-ed gyms. Niche male spaces do exist, such as powerlifting gyms and MMA gyms, which naturally attract more men, but they're usually open to everyone.

Bottom line, co-ed gyms maximize revenue and efficiency, women-only gyms exist because there's SOME demand, and men-only gyms are few and far between because the demand just isn't there.

Why don't more women want to use-women-only spaces? Typically those spaces are limited - they have less variety in free weights, machines, and functional areas, and don't have the same roster of specialized trainers or classes - so, women will use the co-ed spaces to access what they want/need. Using co-ed spaces can also be a personal preference. Some women say female-only spaces are patronizing because historically, women weren't welcome in male-dominated spaces like gyms. Some women need a gym that is close to home or work, and women-only spaces are harder to find due to less demand. Some women need gyms that have a daycare, which is getting hard to find these days. Some women just want the best facility, the best coaching, and certain classes or the most diverse set of classes. To get that, they stick to co-ed because that's where the better resources are.



"100% of cases" - no. Be honest, have you ever been in a gym? Most people there are focused on their own workout, not staring at strangers. Yes, there will be attention sometimes, but thinking EVERY woman or man there is checking you out says more about your mindset than reality. People are paying a lot less attention to you than you think they are.

Gyms are fitness businesses, not "brothels in disguise", and motives are not binary. People go to the gym for fitness, physical health, mental health, stress relief, training for a sport, and yes, to look good. That doesn't automatically equal "I'm here to find a sexual partner". Even the clothing worn, to an extent, isn't some covert mating call.

If you're convinced everyone is there to "demonstrate their charms" or that you'd automatically be the object of attention, you're projecting, not observing. So again, do you even go to the gym? Have you EVER? Because your perception of them doesn't match reality.

Please, understand, I'm talking about RISKS.
If you don't agree with me, then answer the question, why do so many affairs start at the gym?

 

All sober-minded people who know real life agree that the reason for infidelity is ALWAYS only the morality of the cheater and their character traits.
Cheaters belong to a huge group of people without a moral core, selfish and unreliable by nature. Such people can POTENTIALLY betray not only their relationship partners, but also colleagues, their team members, firms, the state - in general, everyone. They can become thieves, robbers, swindlers, murderers, rapists, etc. However, not everyone realizes this vicious potential, because ACTION requires not only motivation, but also favorable circumstances. So, "opportunity makes the thief".
I would paraphrase this proverb like this: "opportunity makes the cheater."
Experience shows that the PRETEXT (not the reason!) for Infidelity is caused not only by proximity between a potential cheater and a potential AP at work, in the neighborhood, with exes or relatives (their own and partner's), not only by passion on popular erotic and dating sites. A huge number of affairs begin in the most popular places where people of Western (particularly American) civilization spend their leisure time WITHOUT THEIR COMMITTED PARTNERS.
I will name these places in order according to my estimate of the relative number of affairs beginning/occurring in them.
1. Bars, night clubs.
2.Gym, tennis, other sports activities.
3.Girls/boys trips.
4.Visits to cinemas, theaters, parks, natural attractions, concerts, exhibitions, etc.
5.Bachelor/bachelorette parties.
5.Online or table games.
etc.
Several questions immediately arise about each of these activities.
1) Why, in God's name, do people allow their SOs to go without them to "relax" in bars or nightclubs, when it is known that these facilities are essentially dating/meeting places for sex in various forms??
2) Why the hell do people allow their SOs to go to a mixed-sex gym without them, when it is known that it is a place where people (willingly or unwittingly) are openly demonstrating their secondary sexual characteristics, semi-naked tight bodies to members of the opposite sex, when it is known that such a gym is a disguised brothel??? Why do people allow that their SOs personal trainers are representatives of the opposite sex?? Why aren't there gym for men and women separately or are there very few of them???
3) Why are people calm about girls/boys trips when it is known that the company of single boys/girls join the company of single girls/boys in places of entertainment in almost 100% of cases??
4) Why are people so tolerant of spending their SOs time with their "friends" of the opposite sex ONE-ON-ONE on "serious" entertainment related to art, nature, etc.? Why don't they understand that such a "friendship" with common interests/hobbies will certainly end in at least an emotional affair??
5) Why don't people demand strict boundaries from their SOs at bachelor/bachelorette parties and don't take partners control measures when it is known how often the party ends with drugs and strippers, when it is known that after the end of the "official" part, in many cases, exes, acquaintances or strangers of the opposite sex join the companies??
6) Why don't people object to their partners' excessive fascination with online and board games when they begin to have a clear increased interest in a particular person of the opposite sex??
And so on, and so force.
...................................................
I understand that affairs may not occur during the aforementioned activities, but the exceptions only confirm the rule. We cannot deny the enormous risks of such "personal freedom" for people in a committed relationship.
Why don't we adhere to the simplest rule: if you are in an official monogamous relationship, then you should relax /have fun only in activities with your partner's participation, and not with other "chosen" representative of the opposite sex?
Freedom is not anarchy, but responsibility!
Rights entail responsibilities!
If you don't like responsibility or boundaries in a relationship, then get out of the relationship! Marriage, any official relationship is not a prison, not an army, not a strict regime mental hospital that cannot be left voluntarily and at any moment.

Boy, we need to cover our heads and have male family member escorts?

 

Many people misunderstand me. I'm not generalizing my statements to ALL people, but only to people with twisted morals, that is, POTENTIAL cheaters. And I don't mind people hanging out in bars, nightclubs, and the gym. The only question is, why are they doing this in "dangerous places" not together with committed partners?
Here, for example, is an opinion confirming what I am saying.
Another interesting statistic. "Most people don’t cheat".
I just saw a post on Reddit posted by DubiousPeoplePleaser.
.............................................................................
"Most people don’t cheat

Being here often makes it feel like “everyone” gets cheated on. A recent Norwegian study shows that 80% of the population has never cheated. 10 % cheated once. So that’s everyone from drunken mistakes, revenge, young and dumb, unhappy relationships, the last thing before they realized it was over etc.
That leaves 10% being habitual cheaters. 5% had affairs. 5% cheated on multiple occasions, but no affairs.
So no. Cheating doesn’t happen to everyone and you can absolutely find a person that will stay loyal. Makes me feel a little bit more optimistic."
.............................................................................

 

Many people misunderstand me. I'm not generalizing my statements to ALL people, but only to people with twisted morals, that is, POTENTIAL cheaters.

Given this, I'm not sure why you got into all those "high risk" settings and activities. Because if someone has those "twisted morals" that make them open to cheating I don't think the setting or activities matter all that much. I mean if the only thing stopping a partner from cheating is putting up a fence around them are they really worth the effort?

And I don't mind people hanging out in bars, nightclubs, and the gym. The only question is, why are they doing this in "dangerous places" not together with committed partners?

I really can't understand why you are so hung up on gyms to the point you are putting them in the same category of bars and nightclubs. Did you happen to recently read a bunch of gym related infidelity stories or something?

I look at it like this. What is the main purpose for a particular activity or establishment. For nightclubs it is to socialize and mingle with the opposite sex. I know there are some that say, "I just go to dance with my girl friends" and some may innocently do that, but the overall vibe is that of a pickup spot. And a bar isn't far behind that. It depends on the bar, but generally they serve the same purpose as a nightclub. A gym on the other hand has a completely innocent and really a healthy purpose at its core. I get that gym attire has the potential to sexualize, but that doesn't turn it into a pickup spot. If a person of poor morals is going to cheat they can find someone just as easily online, on a walk in the park or at the local coffee shop just as easily as at the gym.

"Most people don’t cheat

Being here often makes it feel like “everyone” gets cheated on. A recent Norwegian study shows that 80% of the population has never cheated. 10 % cheated once. So that’s everyone from drunken mistakes, revenge, young and dumb, unhappy relationships, the last thing before they realized it was over etc.
That leaves 10% being habitual cheaters. 5% had affairs. 5% cheated on multiple occasions, but no affairs.
So no. Cheating doesn’t happen to everyone and you can absolutely find a person that will stay loyal. Makes me feel a little bit more optimistic."

I'm glad you see the other side of the coin. Your OP made it feel like you thought everyone is at risk for cheating if go to any of these "dangerous places."

 

Given this, I'm not sure why you got into all those "high risk" settings and activities. Because if someone has those "twisted morals" that make them open to cheating I don't think the setting or activities matter all that much. I mean if the only thing stopping a partner from cheating is putting up a fence around them are they really worth the effort?


I really can't understand why you are so hung up on gyms to the point you are putting them in the same category of bars and nightclubs. Did you happen to recently read a bunch of gym related infidelity stories or something?

I look at it like this. What is the main purpose for a particular activity or establishment. For nightclubs it is to socialize and mingle with the opposite sex. I know there are some that say, "I just go to dance with my girl friends" and some may innocently do that, but the overall vibe is that of a pickup spot. And a bar isn't far behind that. It depends on the bar, but generally they serve the same purpose as a nightclub. A gym on the other hand has a completely innocent and really a healthy purpose at its core. I get that gym attire has the potential to sexualize, but that doesn't turn it into a pickup spot. If a person of poor morals is going to cheat they can find someone just as easily online, on a walk in the park or at the local coffee shop just as easily as at the gym.



I'm glad you see the other side of the coin. Your OP made it feel like you thought everyone is at risk for cheating if go to any of these "dangerous places."

Of course, I agree with you that if a person wants to cheat, they will cheat in any environment.
But what I'm saying is that we don't know in advance what our partner's true morality really is. Unfortunately, we can't get into their heads. In fact, by "trusting" our partner to have fun and go to the gym without our participation, we unwittingly test them, PROVOKE them without knowing 100% in advance what the result will be.
Wouldn't it be wiser not to trust human nature to the end, leaving room for doubt, and not "wake up a sleeping dog"? That is, not to tempt our partner. You must agree that none of us can absolutely calmly look at female/male charms, especially those that openly emphasize their sexuality, especially when they emit explicit sexual vibes. Deep down, we ALL evaluate the sexual attractiveness of members of the opposite sex, even saints (remember the temptations of St. Anthony!) but we have a psychological inhibition that prevents us from immediately negotiating sex outside of a relationship/marriage. But if inhibition is weakened? What if another person is seducing us?? What if we finally fall in love with them or have a very strong physical attraction to them? Is everyone able to resist?
"Opportunity makes a thief".
So wouldn't it be better not to present an opportunity where it's most dangerous?
Wouldn't it be better to take a precautionary step and SHOW everyone that our partner "IS TAKEN" in the most dangerous places from the point of view of starting an affair, that is, to be in these places NEXT to them, TOGETHER with them?
I urge everyone to trust but verify. I urge everyone not to put our partner in a position where they can tempt others and give in to temptation themselves.
Is there anything wrong with that?

 

Where I am has NOTHING to do If I would cheat - or not!
I have my moral compass and it goes EVERYWHERE with me.
Thinking that because someone may cheat because they are at a bar or the gym - is irrelevant - they would cheat if they were walking the dog around the block.

people that are going to cheat = cheat.
People that aren’t going to cheat will turn down the opportunity quickly every time.

 

The more I think about it, the more I agree with this point. If going out to a club to dance and drink “sets up” a situation that results in cheating, that tells me the willingness to cheat was already in you. I’m not talking about getting blackout drunk and waking up confused, though even then, you still made a series of poor choices. But if a couple of drinks and some flirting is all it takes for someone to cross the line, then they were already a cheater at heart.

That said, I also think what someone desires to do can be a great indicator of who they really are. If your spouse wants to dress and act like they’re single in a nightclub till 2am, that says something about their mindset. To me, that’s less about the venue and more about who they are showing themselves to be.

Strong morals are the firewall, but even good people can drift into emotional attachment without realizing it. Emotional affairs rarely start with a single choice. They build slowly through shared struggles, repeated conversations, or encouragement that feels supportive. A coworker, a trainer, or an online chat can become that channel.

But there always comes a point when the drift turns into a clear moral line. The moment you start saying things you feel you need to hide from your spouse, it’s no longer innocent. And when talk shifts from words to physical interactions, it’s unmistakable. That’s not “drift” anymore, that’s choosing to cheat.

And this “drift” is exactly where I think boundaries matter most as a preventative measure. Boundaries can’t make a cheater faithful, but they can help good-faith people avoid sliding into attachments that cross into betrayal before they even realize what’s happening.