[sparrow555]

The full extent of issues has not been revealed here sparrow. By her graciousness to me, I am privy to information no one on this thread or the SI thread knows. Therefore trust me when I say... Those comments are particularly cruel and she in no way excuses her own behavior. But her behavior in no way gives him license to abuse her over and above the natural consequence of divorce. She has endured enough trauma over her life time. And I am very upset at her husband for choosing to be that calloused. He was ruptured bad, but she was ruptured first and I would advise him to remember that and refrain from continuing to be so cruel.

By her graciousness to you ? How do you know that it isn't just one more point of manipulation ? CSA should never be used as a trump card to win victim Olympics.

BL, look at my posts at the start of the thread. There was enough empathy for a woman looking for help. Then she started instigating all the drama either through frivolous replies or by attacking people. The benefit of doubt I gave her has long been exhausted.

Isn't it playing posters against one another if she is selectively revealing info to some and arguing with others. What is the point of this thread then ?

Maybe she can create a private group and only invite people she feels comfortable with. That would be better than what that is currently going on in this thread.

I

 

[Blossom Leigh]

By her graciousness to you ? How do you know that it isn't just one more point of manipulation ? CSA should never be used as a trump card to win victim Olympics.

BL, look at my posts at the start of the thread. There was enough empathy for a woman looking for help. Then she started instigating all the drama either through frivolous replies or by attacking people. The benefit of doubt I gave her has long been exhausted.

Isn't it playing posters against one another if she is selectively revealing info to some and arguing with others. What is the point of this thread then ?

Maybe she can create a private group and only invite people she feels comfortable with. That would be better than what that is currently going on in this thread.

I

If I'm wrong, it will be on me.

But I feel strongly that

Her intent is not about anyone here.

There are layers of reasons this thread has followed the path it has.

But none of them are centered on playing any of us against each other.

We can be mindful that her choice of when to reveal information and to whom are hers and hers alone. And though its understandable that assigning malintent is an easy go to, I wouldn't.

and @straightshooter her being ruptured first was not the cell phone incident.

Yes, graciousness meaning, the level of sensitivity surrounding her personal info in revealing these things to *anyone.* Her revealing to me was only due to the level of safety she felt with me. Its nothing special about me yall. She and I share a very similar past. I picked up on it mid thread and she realized that I could see it so felt confident to lean on me. I'm very glad she did. She is quite impressive and her story has resonated deeply with me.

Maybe time will bear her story here. If not, I hope to always be part of her journey to heal.

 

[Blossom Leigh]

Two other things I want to add..

She regrets deeply not choosing a different path than the one she chose. She'll tell you that, and has.


And I wanted to add a note to her exH DoneGone who I know is following here. I have been keeping up with your threads on SI and I am very glad to see your latests posts. It is the right and stand up thing to do. You are not owning her affair part of this and I'm sure she wouldn't want you to. Thats good. For you to stand up and say "I really fvcked up" because you did and realize it now, took guts. Thats a big thumbs up from me.

 

[thequietman]

Not a good wife,

You need to give your x-husband, children, and family members time to heal. Sadly, there's no time limit on healing for this type of betray. Not only you had an affair, you lied and used guilt and blame on your husband to cover your affair.

If you really loved your x-husband, you will fight for him instead of posting about it. To get the approval of others to fight or to move on.

Keep the communication open, let him, kids, and the family members know how you're doing in therapy. Let your x-husband know, that you still love him, and you are doing what it takes to get him back. Be a good friend, instead of trying to pickup in your relationship where you left off before you got caught. To help keep the communication open, ask if he's welling to have lunch or dinner with you at least once a week. Like on a Saturday or a Sunday. At your place, or his choice of a place.

If your x-husband does take you back, your marriage may not be like before. Let your second marriage blossom on its own. And last bit of advice, don't screw up again. When you married, you telling the, All Mighty, you love your husband and you put off all other men "other relationship". Your husband might be forgiven the first time, he won't be so forgiven the second time.

 

[eric1]

Wishes -

Again, you need to slow it down for everyone's sake. It's clear that there are still some white hot emotions at play. Nothing of this nature can be fixed with emotions driving the car.

How to adjust emotions to the passenger seat for now is a different story. I strongly encourage professional help for both of you guys. Neither are in the right place now and trying to fix things could rupture them further, or more intrinsically than they are.

TLDR: Don't rush

 

[MattMatt]

I have a horrible feeling that we we are being played to a certain extent.

Some of us are given super secret information so that not all of us know the full story.

Which puts the people with that super secret information in a difficult position.

If they see someone making a post from a position of apparent ignorance do they break a trust and reveal what they know? Sort of try to help that other member out by pointing out that they have information that would change the opinion of the other member if they had it?

Or just say nothing?

But let's play a little thought experiment here.

The daughters of Wishes and DG knew that something was wrong.

Instead of confessing to them Wishes gave them some super secret information that made the girls realise that it was all their father's fault and thst she was not a cheater.

In that instance that super secret information was actually a work of fiction that badly damaged her own daughters and their relationship with not only their father but with Wishes, too.

Am I accusing Wishes of lying?

Certainly not! Though I think she is is like a singer who uses Autotune to make their voice sound entirely different.

It's all about tone, timbre, speed and the like.

It is amazing what you can do with the truth without needing to disemble.
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[manfromlamancha]

I actually disagree with her title. I think she was an impeccable wife, despite her heavy fall from grace.

I wish I could share the tragedy that is this entire story because her past trauma and her marital trauma are inexplicably linked.

But that is her place to share.

Her withholding is not to protect herself. Far from it.

That's why I've been stating that this one is not one you can make assumptions on.

So are you saying that she is an impeccable wife and her past has some bearing on why she did the vile things she did as a married woman to her husband (by the way this is justification for her cheating) ? In your opinion, is she justified or not ?

DG told us what she did in SI and she has not refuted it - she accepted that is what she did and could not explain how she could do this to a man that loved her and was a good husband (her words). Now suddenly a bad past or upbringing or trauma has come into it and she has gone to being an impeccable wife ?

You don't need to share the details but you need to be clear about whether you think (and it would seem, she thinks) that her actions were justified or had some reason other than being able to scratch her itch or not ?

And saying that she was an impeccable wife might just about be the biggest insult to all those hard working, loyal wives out there who really have put up with all kinds of sh!t from family and husbands but have stayed in tact morally.

 

[manfromlamancha]

If she feels that DG is "abusing" her why doesn't she just move on with her life ? Why does she still keep coming back ? Because she loves him ? Give me a break ….

 

[Blossom Leigh]

Neither, I nor DG nor her will tell you she was justified.

Impeccable because she obeyed him for decades, she was stellar, too stellar, and then obeyed him through something that none of you are going to be able to piece together without full disclosure. (It is not centered around the man in CA.)

Neither of them anticipated the full effect her obedience would have on her. She regrets obedience during that time frame as well as her choices made following that devastation. She paid a very high price during that obedience. It caused severe new internal damage that blew apart their marriage before the affair of which she deeply regrets adding that act to what had just happened to her. Yet, the affair does not negate the severity of what happened to her.



So my word impeccable is not designed to insult those who are trauma survivors who did not choose self destructive paths. It is to describe the level of obedience she chose to her H when she shouldn't have and her track record prior to that.

And no, her track record doesn't erase the affair.

 

[Blossom Leigh]

To clarify... My comments about stopping current cruel behavior are rooted in knowing she paid a high price prior to the affair, then the natural high price of divorce because of the affair.... It is enough, further cruelty needs to stop.

 

[azteca1986]

Neither, I nor DG nor her will tell you she was justified.

Impeccable because she obeyed him for decades, she was stellar, too stellar, and then obeyed him through something that none of you are going to be able to piece together without full disclosure. (It is not centered around the man in CA.)

Neither of them anticipated the full effect her obedience would have on her. She regrets obedience during that time frame as well as her choices made following that devastation. She paid a very high price during that obedience. It caused severe new internal damage that blew apart their marriage before the affair...

So why is it a subject for this forum?

Withholding information, obfuscation & manipulation - all the traits that led Wishes to CWI in the first place. Anything prior to the affair can be discussed in any of the forums on TAM. But the Super Secret Info is here... creating an inextricable link to the affair. I suspect the only reason this thread exists is so that it can be seen.

I hate being manipulated.

 

[Blossom Leigh]

So why is it a subject for this forum?

Withholding information, obfuscation & manipulation - all the traits that led Wishes to CWI in the first place. Anything prior to the affair can be discussed in any of the forums on TAM. But the Super Secret Info is here... creating an inextricable link to the affair. I suspect the only reason this thread exists is so that it can be seen.

I hate being manipulated.

Please remember this thread became public knowledge. So to ascribe manipulation to that is unwise. Her annonymity was compromised early on and was one of the layers causing her to shift her transparency.

So, I've said all I need to say on this.

She is not the monster being painted here.

And I for one am growing tired of callousedness towards me in my attempts to keep this story as accurate as possible given my limitations so she can get the help she was looking for when she came here.

So with that, if she chooses to share further or not is her choice. I will not ascribe malintent to either choice.

 

[Adelais]

Two other things I want to add..

She regrets deeply not choosing a different path than the one she chose. She'll tell you that, and has.


And I wanted to add a note to her exH DoneGone who I know is following here. I have been keeping up with your threads on SI and I am very glad to see your latests posts. It is the right and stand up thing to do. You are not owning her affair part of this and I'm sure she wouldn't want you to. Thats good. For you to stand up and say "I really fvcked up" because you did and realize it now, took guts. Thats a big thumbs up from me.

Do you see what you are doing here? You are speaking for her about very simple things which she could say herself. Is she a frightened child? Are you her parent? She is definitely not a child, no matter what happened to her prior to the marriage. She chose a very adult path, and did a very adult thing: have an EA, (or at least pretend she was having one to make her husband jealous) and then have a full on 9 month PA.

You are being played, Blossom. Perhaps some of the secret information she shared with you is true, but what she is doing with it is manipulation.

I dislike adultery, and feel for BSes. I dislike CSA, and feel for the victims. However, something I hate more is manipulative people, who use life's blows as excuses for their own bad choices.

I have a bad feeling in my gut regarding Wishes and DG. They came to marriage forums, pretending they were having marital issues stemming from adultery, all the while knowing that they were actively destroying their marriage in other, unspeakable ways, which are so horrible they can't even speak about it, long before the adultery.

If he forced her to have an open marriage, which most of us don't approve of, there is no need to hide it, as many spouses have been here complaining that their spouse wanted that, and they don't, even after they tried it.

If he raped her in his anger, they both need serious therapy, and they shouldn't get back together....ever.

If they murdered Wishes' and her AP's baby and buried it in the back yard, then Blossom, you need to call the authorities, and stop this charade.

Honestly, Wishes and DG's secrecy has me, and I'm sure others, wondering what horrible thing they have done. (Not what DG did to her, but what they have done.)

This thread feels very dysfunctional, and unhealthy. Both this one and DG's are not being used by the OP's for their growth, but to lead the members along, doling out crumbs to keep members coming back. They are not sharing any of the deep issues, events, or learning anything from the posters. In fact they are ignoring the contributes, or becoming angry when they are confronted.

This is not the place for them to deal with their issues. They obviously need to be in the offices of qualified psychotherapists, insane asylums, or in jail.

 

[bandit.45]

This thread is a troll party.

DG and Wishes are the same person folks. S/he is making everyone fight, argue, and run around in a tizzy and getting her/his jollies watching it.

Ban me if you like, but I don't like to stand aside and see good people being manipulated this way.

 

[alte Dame]

I hope that the mods close this thread.

 

[Wishes]

Listen guys, you get what you want. I am leaving this thread. I do not fault you for wanting more information but I have never thought anything that led up to my affair had any business being repeated on this forum. You are right. I came here asking a question and you answered it and I should have moved on. I guess I was looking for something else and I do not know what.

I have been in therapy several years and part of my personal therapy was reading in this forum. I never believed I would be received the way I have been or I would not have come here period. In hindsight, I do not blame most of you. I am not antagonistic against your honest opinions and thoughts. Actually they have been helpful.

But, I think you need me to leave, and I do not believe I should wait any longer for that defining moment. I have made many friends that I hope to stay in contact with and they alone have made this entire experience worthwhile.

 

[Billdan]

I find it very difficult to believe we are not seeing serious dysfunction between people who have very real issues with the truth. In terms of an internet forum this is mostly irrelevant, what people read here isn't the point: the point is to try and help the people who come here. It must be said that most of us would have similar issues if we took to posting intimate details about our lives.

Neither DG nor Wishes can really be helped unless they learn to be honest: and I do not think either realizes how obvious it is that their dishonesty (whether intentional or not) prevents them from even beginning to behave in a healthier matter. After a career as a Prosecutor, these inconsistencies scream to me from the respective threads and grow with each passing post. Wishes ignores when these are noted - for the excellent reason that they have nothing to do with why she is posing here. Again, the point is not blast an anonymous poster seeking help with a difficult situation, but rather to try and draw attention to each their respective inability to confront their situation clearly.

It should be noted that this this does not make Wishes and DG horrible or even bad people. It just makes them human.

The inconsistencies in what Wishes have posted in this thread, and between what DG has posted in his and Wishes has posted here are enormous. One cannot put what she has written here side by side and not see that her story has changed in significant ways. As best as I can piece together through the various and inconsistent accounts:

1. DG has had what Wishes believes to be a controlling personality. There appears in this thread to be some of a basis in religion for this, but that is speculation.
2. DG has some history of significant anger issues.
3. Wishes response to this has been to manipulate by misdirection. This is hardly unique - this was how mother dealt with my father for years. Passive-Aggressive behavior screams from both threads.
4. This passive-aggressive behavior was extremely successful for most of the marriage in getting Wishes what she wanted.
5. As some point something happened that led Wishes to seek advice from outside of her marriage. If I read between the lines, this was in some ways a result of their respective communication styles. I suspect neither was very good at dealing with disagreement. Their fear of confrontation led both to behave in what in some ways was dishonest behavior. While this was manageable for most of their marriage (this problem is probably present in most marriages) it became intolerable.
6. Wishes inability to get DG to listen led her to start some relationship with a man outside of the marriage. Again - I suspect that her inability to articulate what was bothering her is at play here, as is DG's difficulty in really hearing what his wife was saying (I suspect he never really was attuned to what his wife was hinting at). It is hard not to read these threads, by the way, and not conclude that she is smarter than he is.
7. At this point, Wishes crosses a very big line - and one which DG is now minimizing - and he is wrong to do so. Taking a communication with another man underground is never appropriate, Period. One suspects, though she will deny it, that Wishes became somewhat intoxicated with the connection she had with the OM, even if that relationship was always platonic. In any event seeking advice about a marriage from someone who works for your husband is extremely inappropriate. Basically it says you do not know how to get your husband to hear you.
8. The affair starts, is uncovered. Wishes then engages in desperate, and profoundly disrespectful acts in a desperate attempt to save the marriage (see eg, the involvement of her children, the IC sessions described by DG).
9. Wishes starts posting here.

It is patently obvious that DG wants Wishes back, and Wishes wants DG back. In reading the Si thread, I think DG was really trying to find someone who would convince to do something other than what he thought was required (though this was probably subconsious). Wishes behavior prevented that to some extent. She started this thread by saying she had given up hope, but was willing to wait for him. There was enough dysfunction between the two of them, and enough has happened (ie the affair) to make each cautious, and so we get this dance played out.

This is the way people reconcile.

There is no shame in any of it: there is in fact bravery.

I could write a similar story that would make my own reconciliation after my wife's affair look no better. During that process both my wife and I were terrified at telling the other we were all-in, we had issues and problems that needed addressing before that could happen. My hope is that the two of them can look each other in the eye, talk openly to EACH OTHER, and begin their long path back to each other. One suspects a marriage purged of the difficulty in saying difficult things to each other would be quite rewarding.

 

[Blossom Leigh]

Listen guys, you get what you want. I am leaving this thread. I do not fault you for wanting more information but I have never thought anything that led up to my affair had any business being repeated on this forum. You are right. I came here asking a question and you answered it and I should have moved on. I guess I was looking for something else and I do not know what.

I have been in therapy several years and part of my personal therapy was reading in this forum. I never believed I would be received the way I have been or I would not have come here period. In hindsight, I do not blame most of you. I am not antagonistic against your honest opinions and thoughts. Actually they have been helpful.

But, I think you need me to leave, and I do not believe I should wait any longer for that defining moment. I have made many friends that I hope to stay in contact with and they alone have made this entire experience worthwhile.

I was going to advise you to leave TAM. You will not be served well here. My door is always open to you. You have made a big impact on me.

And to those who think she cant speak for herself... She is more than capable and just like her intent has been misjudged. So was mine.

This thread was a huge disappointment.

 

[ConanHub]

@Wishes

At some point information does need to come out for total healing.

I think you are very brave but still not seeing clearly through your history of being treated far less than stellar.

I get it. I shudder to share things that happened with me sometimes.

It can be pretty frustrating trying to share about my perspective while trying to protect my loved ones and myself and my identity isn't known here. My children don't read and neither do my other family members.

I don't have to imagine how you feel. I know because I've been there.

My story didn't play out like yours but you are so much sweeter and nicer than me.

If I shared everything about myself I am afraid of the reactions here.

If you can endure, please hang around if you receive any help here. You can block posters that aren't helping and feel free to P.M. me if you want.

Please be well and continue on your road to health.

I think you are probably a beautiful person.
@Blossom Leigh is my friend.

Ask her for a reference if you like. I will be another shoulder for you if you want.

Be blessed. Conan.
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[ConanHub]

If she feels that DG is "abusing" her why doesn't she just move on with her life ? Why does she still keep coming back ? Because she loves him ? Give me a break ….

Since barriers have been breached, go to SI and ask DG what the hell went down.

He has stated that he could give the aholes here on TAM ahole lessons and I suggest you believe him.
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