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Damn BigDaddyNY! When I read that and you recounted the things I've had to deal with...geeze I feel like it's time I took my own advice to others that been through less! That list is just absolutely hard to read back brother. No apologies needed about when I first came here. I was a mess! Alot of you beat me up and it focused me and calmed me for a bit.
As I write these things...so many things come to mind. Our 38th anniversary i took her on a second honey moon to Boise, Idaho, to the Anniversary Inn. Look it it up...awesome place. Stayed in 4 different amazing and romantic themed rooms over 5 days. It's a.second honey moon right? Not a single loving, passionate kiss, nada. The hits just keep going 😢
That's painful man. The constant emotional and physical love I feel from my wife is what breathes life into my soul. I think I'm a bit like you, loving to do romantic things for your wife, big and small, because you genuinely enjoy doing them for her. It is the outward expression of your love. You aren't doing it to get something in return, but at the same time you do want to feel some love in return. I think it eventually drains you when you keep giving and never getting. This is why I think you stop giving and look out for you. Do something for you.
 
Not a single loving, passionate kiss, nada.
Disregarding the obvious other issues for a second, just a reminder that romance is a dance. The more you push someone who's not into it, the more they're going to back off. I had to find some balance with my W, who's not a romantic. I had to start paying serious attention to her love languages instead.
 
I am so impressed with so many varied answers that all on some level could apply at different times and yet some of them can apply all at the same time. Life is rarely black and white. We play larger roles than we are many times willing to admit and take more abuse than we ever thought we would as life slowly unfolds and only in the rear view mirror do we sometimes look back and say oh, f#@<.... how did I get here.

There are issues that have been there from day one.

There was looseness that could have introduced miscommunication and assumptions, decisions were made and betrayal happened in the end.

There is advancing age.

Finances to consider.

Mental, emotional health as well as ethics and moral compasses at play.

And here is another one to consider....

You have been doing all of this therapy work for your bipolar and you truly may have outgrown her. The question becomes .. are you willing to let her catch up, or is that door closed. Would she, could she... only time can answer that and your own decision on what you are willing to face to now manage a mismatch in capacities.

I'm glad you are getting away this weekend to grab some decompression.

As you are assessing your situation.. I would want to know if your wife provided a "why" she doesn't feel responsible for anything.. did she provide a why? May be worth revisiting to see if you heard her reason.
@Blossom Leigh has good questions. I want to tag along on that.

People keep commending the Gottman Card Decks App (which I have not used). I'm wondering if the two of you might benefit from intentional, guided learning about each other. You may end up learning about yourself as well.
 
Discussion starter · #165 ·
@Blossom Leigh has good questions. I want to tag along on that.

People keep commending the Gottman Card Decks App (which I have not used). I'm wondering if the two of you might benefit from intentional, guided learning about each other. You may end up learning about yourself as well.
Well I'll look into picking this up. Can't hurt anything at this point. Her love language, I'm really not sure of. She can be a bit of an odd duck.
 
Discussion starter · #167 ·
Now the oldest thing throughout all the years, is we've never had a dead bedroom. Like any others it comes and goes. Yet never just stops. Although she is still an odd duck in this department. TMI, sorry. Imagine a 62 year old married woman, seriously using the words wiener or tally Wacker for a man's private parts?
 
Yes, occasionally luck is with you and everything comes into the light but you can’t depend on that.)
I would actually think the last thing he should hope for is for “everything” to come to light. Both TT and wife are living a different life today. A lot of health issues, advancing age.

Honestly I would want no more discussion about decades ago. I would quit picking at the scab and focus on dealing with their health issues.
 
I would actually think the last thing he should hope for is for “everything” to come to light. Both TT and wife are living a different life today. A lot of health issues, advancing age.

Honestly I would want no more discussion about decades ago. I would quit picking at the scab and focus on dealing with their health issues.
And finances..
 
Discussion starter · #172 ·
Well just got off work so will check in for a minute. Rus47, you bring a valid point out. I'm not looking at the sunk cost phallacy in this. Right now I'm focusing on controlling my emotions. Looking at all this with reality in mind. As you said, we're aging and dealing with health issues. There are always bills to pay, place live costs and all the things that go with it . I'll be able to retire should I desire at the end of October. Many scenarios to consider. Separate ling arrangements can only be had in home. She understands that we both need some space to process all this.
Now despite the obvious issues that have come out now we both have had our faults. I do not excuse her behaviors, yet I also recognize mine weren't always noble either. I have been very difficult to love and live with, not knowing I had a mental disorder. I've been a very aggressive personality my whole life. I had a very explosive and volatile temper. Now me being totally smitten I never saw some of her personality quirks. As the decades have passed they became much more noticeable. A big one is she has no filter. Will just blurt out whatever comes to mind, no matter who hear's it. She can be very materialistic and also very selfish. Yet she has a heart of gold and will give the shirt off her back to help others. In her school days, she was on the fringes not socializing much. She was, as they say, a nerd or geek. She hated school, didn't date until the last couple years of school. She was a virgin till 21. Her social skills lagged behind most others, and still do. I don't mean to disrespect anyone nor offend with the next statement, but it's the only way i can think to vividly describe this. Her social circle seemed to be center around, well...tards. sorry. She's always been tomboyish. She's always had this childish innocence in her thinking. Where most of us would pick up on someone hitting up on us, she just doesn't notice it. Clueless. I've discussed with her several time about what happened with her first experience with a man. As she has said, date rape. Coerced into it. She really won't talk but vaguely of it, no details. I deeply feel this did cause trauma in her to this day! She denies this. Most of us would as well. I've urged her to seek therapy and deal with this. She gets very defensive. In fact she doesn't cope well with trauma at all. So she has made up this little fantasy world i call the land of rainbows and unicorns. It is in there that the innocent little girl can play and be safe. A place where good girls don't do nasty things with boys. They are dirty and never let them touch you. Every moment is fanciful and happy in there. I will relate something that happened within our first months together prior to marriage. Now know this, she had only 2 sex partners prior to me. 1 was the date rape and another guy she was dating. She said she did it with him because she thought she was supposed to in a relationship? She had only experienced sex 5 times. So anyway, we were really going at it hard, making out. I had been caressing her through her clothes and had started to unbutton her blouse. I remember the next part very vividly. She had said her hands up between us, I had thought to stroke my chest and I softly grabbed both wrists in on hand and softly pushed both arms above her head against the bed kissing her, when she looked up at me and said, just don't hurt me! Wow, that was an immediate show stopper. Never had a woman say that to me and the look was for real, like she was scared. I kissed her quickly letting go and said that is something I'd never do.
So couple that experience with her first time being forced and noting over the years a child like personality at time, especially with sexual intimacy and I figure there is some trauma buried inside she doesn't want to deal with. I've never hit her, pushed or shook her. Never touched her in violence. This can explain the duality she exits with sexual intimacy and the root of alot of her hangups sexually. When she comes out of there and is truly in this world, wow, she is a fantastic and delicious lover! But it's getting her out that's the problem. I feel it's affected in more ways than I had thought. And it does show in how she interacted with J and the dumb assessment she texted with.
So Laurentium, my fine shrink, maybe you can weigh in on this possibility.
 
😥 that breaks my heart for her... potentially spinning in unresolved trauma. It sounds accurate.
 
I would actually think the last thing he should hope for is for “everything” to come to light. Both TT and wife are living a different life today. A lot of health issues, advancing age.

Honestly I would want no more discussion about decades ago. I would quit picking at the scab and focus on dealing with their health issues.
Some need every detail even if it was decades ago. Some don’t. I think he goes back and forth on the necessity of knowing all she may have done. I never got anything close to the truth but I eventually divorced and totally let go of that life. He may toy with the idea of running away but that’s likely just a dream. So now he has to figure out how to live with it and IMO that’s the hard part — leaving, in comparison, is usually easier.
 
Paragraphs are your friend. If you space between paragraphs, it makes it much easier to read. I have trouble following a huge wall of text and I know others do too.
Yet through the hall ways of my mind are echoes of a sweet blue eyed lady, giggling at how dirty I was from working on the cars, or the look of genuine concern comforting me when sick. Then a recent memory of when I was sitting at the dining table, trying to eat a yogurt after another radiation treatment on my face, that had literally destroyed the inside of my mouth and lips, in immense pain, using prescribed lidocaine mouth solution to numb it, looking at her sitting on the couch, blithely thumbing on her phone without a care. I asked her, how come you don't ask if I'm hurting and need her help? She looked up with a distant stare at nothing and just said, I don't know?
Maybe her conscience has been seared from trying to avoid guilt. It could also be mixed up in this possible trauma and trying to bury it all. When you try to bury a painful emotion, it's hard to have any emotions. That could be what's going on overall.

Are you seriously considering divorce? If so, what are you hoping to accomplish with a divorce?

Have you asked your wife why she wants to have a happy marriage? If so, is she willing to do anything to make that happen? After all these years, it is difficult, if not impossible, to work through things that happened so long ago. I can barely remember what I had for dinner last week, let alone what happened 30 years ago. I can't even remember some people's names. It's hard to remember what order things happened in or who said what to whom. It would be especially hard if you tried to forget those things and are now being asked to recall them. I have a feeling your wife tries to put it out of her mind, based on what you've told us about her.

That being said, I would tell her that her comment about regretting not having sex with that man was a horrible thing to say and that you want her to change her thinking on that, consider how important fidelity is, and to apologize. I also think that the comments you made to her gave her a "hall pass." You basically told her if she was unfaithful, you'd understand and forgive her. That is you telling her not to use her self-control, but to go ahead and cheat and you'd forgive her. You don't seem to have owned that and are now holding it against her and demanding answers that she probably doesn't have to give.

Further, you told her to never tell you and now you are demanding that she come clean. All this when she probably believes (and rightly so) that it will only make matters worse and she might not really remember much about what happened.

I'm not defending her. This is the outcome of adultery. It destroys marriages and people. Your comments to her that you would understand if she committed adultery and what appears to be her adulterous behavior are all bad and now here you are.

I think you are tormenting yourself and making matters worse. If this were me, I'd forgive her and focus on building something new with new boundaries and a more positive direction for myself.
 
Discussion starter · #178 ·
Afternoon peeps.
@TinyTbone, not sure what you found funny about my post. Should I stop posting? If my thoughts are not helpful, I'll bow out of the discussion.
I do apologize! That is a case of fat fingers!! I found your post to be very real and serious. There absolutely was nothing remotely funny. Really, I am sorry. In fact I was going to and will reply to that particular post. It hit alot of valid points in my thinking.
 
Discussion starter · #179 ·
Paragraphs are your friend. If you space between paragraphs, it makes it much easier to read. I have trouble following a huge wall of text and I know others do too.

Maybe her conscience has been seared from trying to avoid guilt. It could also be mixed up in this possible trauma and trying to bury it all. When you try to bury a painful emotion, it's hard to have any emotions. That could be what's going on overall.

Are you seriously considering divorce? If so, what are you hoping to accomplish with a divorce?

Have you asked your wife why she wants to have a happy marriage? If so, is she willing to do anything to make that happen? After all these years, it is difficult, if not impossible, to work through things that happened so long ago. I can barely remember what I had for dinner last week, let alone what happened 30 years ago. I can't even remember some people's names. It's hard to remember what order things happened in or who said what to whom. It would be especially hard if you tried to forget those things and are now being asked to recall them. I have a feeling your wife tries to put it out of her mind, based on what you've told us about her.

That being said, I would tell her that her comment about regretting not having sex with that man was a horrible thing to say and that you want her to change her thinking on that, consider how important fidelity is, and to apologize. I also think that the comments you made to her gave her a "hall pass." You basically told her if she was unfaithful, you'd understand and forgive her. That is you telling her not to use her self-control, but to go ahead and cheat and you'd forgive her. You don't seem to have owned that and are now holding it against her and demanding answers that she probably doesn't have to give.

Further, you told her to never tell you and now you are demanding that she come clean. All this when she probably believes (and rightly so) that it will only make matters worse and she might not really remember much about what happened.

I'm not defending her. This is the outcome of adultery. It destroys marriages and people. Your comments to her that you would understand if she committed adultery and what appears to be her adulterous behavior are all bad and now here you are.

I think you are tormenting yourself and making matters worse. If this were me, I'd forgive her and focus on building something new with new boundaries and a more positive direction for myself.
Thank you for this post. It has touched on, I feel, very real ideals I thought of at work last night. It gave me a chance to put away emotional responses and actually think.
This morning, my wife was awake when I got home and presented me with something unsolicited. She has of her own volition, contacted several couples counseling centers in our area, and is awaiting responses. She has also contacted therapists and awaiting responses. This is a huge step for her.
As to divorce. I will not act rashly on something that significant. I have to figure out for my self the value in it and what it would accomplish. The monies involved are huge yes, but not a primary thought.
I'll be heading off on my trip alone, she understands. Will give us both some time to gain clarity. Right now, I fell I've suffered a trauma response of fight or flight in me, due to the last comment that popped out. Is it real? Did something real happen or am I spinning it about, falsely accusing? Is it part retro jealousy? These are things we can work on in counseling.
At this point it's up to her to set up the counseling. She does this and I will openly go and work with her to figure out our way through all this.
Well I do have to get ready for work. Gonna be another long nite shift...guess they always are. Thanks for caring enough to give your thoughts and wisdom.
 
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