[LATERILUS79]

Well, @TinyTbone, I don't think you were blissfully blind. You just said you didn't feel seen or heard by your wife.

Do you feel seen and heard now? How is daily life with her?

@LATERILUS79, if he divorces now, she will continue to be supported by him. The financial repercussions of divorcing at this point would be crippling.

You are right Cynthia. I know this all too well. I still suffer from the effects of my divorce and how so much of my hard work was stolen from me… but such is life.

the thing that is most important is to look at the positives. The massive dead weight lifted from his shoulders. The freeing feeling of knowing no one will ever be able to tell him what to do for the remainder of his life. Those two things are absolutely priceless. I never fully realized how amazing life could be until I cut out the cancer.


So he has two options here the way I see it.

1. Divorce.
2. Be married in name only and date around. I guarantee he will find a wonderful woman that would be more than happy to treat him well.

 

[Openminded]

Yep, you are right with this! I thought i was being all grown up. Boy was that one of the biggest regrets of my life! I really thought that she wouldn't do this kind of crap. I was the nieve one.

Edit to add: you and Quad73 are correct. Looking back...crap. why is hindsight 20/20?

It’s 20/20 because many of us don’t see things clearly when we’re in the middle of it. What seems like a good idea to us at the time turns out not to be. I’ve made many mistakes in my life that I can see now but couldn’t see then.

 

[TinyTbone]

Well crap. Since I've gone this far, then i guess I'll let it all out. Have a laundry list of pain. So here it comes.
So back in 2017, had a house fire. Destroyed the home. Lost all. Lived in a rental house for 20 months, while getting the home built. Guess the shock of it all broke her veneer of silence?
So any way, several things have been said. She had for years been paranoid that I was or would cheat on her. She said it was because I have a high libido and hers was low. It came out of her very mouth that the real reason she supported and suggested i get a vasectomy, was she was afraid I'd get another woman pregnant? Say what? I never had time to do that. I worked 12 hour shifts for 7 days straight and off for 7 days. If I wasn't at work, I was at home? So how was i supposed to do that?? I've since told her that this was so screwed up. That she, under the guise of us not wanting more kids and an easier thing to do than her getting fixed, took away from me the chance to have another child with another, should our marriage fail? WTF?
Then she drops these bombs about J. Then she tries to say i killed a pet of ours, that i found dead next to the road? That a subsequent exam by our veterans showed blunt force trauma to his neck. That he was jot hit by a car. I was stunned to here this. He was a fun little guy and our young daughter lived him. How could you even conceive of this? That i had to get you to regain your composure on the side of the road as our house was burning down. You were rolling hysterically in the neighbors yard, screaming my stuff, my stuff, while our 14 year old daughter was in shock. She needed us and you were scaring her. That you looked up lying there and called me a heartless a hole? She needed us! I told her you grieve now, I'll grieve later. I have to get us through this.
Our friend G had moved in a week before, leaving a toxic and abusive 10 year relationship. To stay a couple months while setting up a new place to live. Her and the wife were out to lunch when the fire happened. Daughter and I were home. I'd woke up for a couple minutes to go to the bathroom and get some water. I was working my night shift week. All hell broke loose minutes later. The home was rocked by an explosion. I ran down stairs and looked around saw nothing and then went outside to see if any neighbors were out and heard it. Then I hear my daughter screaming from inside the house, our house is on fire, our house in fire. I ran in and got her out! Few minutes later we were moved across the street by EMS, for safety. Had our daughter call her mom. She still had he phone. She told her mom to come home, the house is on fire. Then I heard my wife take it as a joke. I grabbed the phone and told her get home now, our house is freaking burning down. Well when she arrived with G, she immediately started screaming my stuff. G looked for and found me and our daughter, hugged us and was so thankfully we were OK, wife didn't.
Things have been strained since this. I realize she's depressed, she's even started meds to help. But to say such cruel things to me, to let slip these hurtful things and deny it? Guess I'm having my own come to Jesus moment.

 

[Mybabysgotit]

Hey folks. So I've finally decided to write out my full story. I had hit on some of it when I first joined. Granted I was all over the place emotionally at that time.
It's a long one and I'm going to be short about each area of it and discuss or answer questions that may come in more detail.
PART 1. We have been married 40 years; fact. I served in the Navy for 20 years, 6 months and 9 days. Retired in 2003. Fact. I am who I say I am,fact. I have never trolled anyone here. Fact. Here goes.

I'll begin sort of in the middle. Was in the summer of 1998. I was stationed.in Everett, Washington on a Destroyer. We had a learning resource center, with computers. What a concept. The internet was pretty new to alot, in it's infancy. Email was king. Cell phones were basic dumb phones. No texting as yet. Chat rooms seemed to be the rage. One on my workers goaded.me into opening an email account, so I was learning.i discovered chat rooms, it was a novel idea. I frequented one site in particular. Started chatting in open rooms with a specific person often, often enough to create our own private room.
Had been married 14 years at this point. No home PC. So anyway, I'd hit the chat room on lunch breaks or on duty nights. The other person was a woman. I'm sure you know now where this went. Got in to deep. Remember all was done through chat. Never have i seen what she looked like or met IRL. She wanted to meet. I freaked out. Told the wife about it. Didn't defend what I did. Felt horrid for it. I was completely honest, even went the to the site and opened up the room and let her go through all the messages. To say she was hurt was an understatement. There were never any I love you's or talk of leaving our partners. Just mundane things and sexual fantasy talk. My wife had been worried something was up with me, and unbeknownst to me 2 days before this she and her niece had cracked my email at her sister's house and found this. So there was the added humiliation and shame she endured at the both of them seeing this as well! The next couple months were very rough with us, obviously. I never evaded any questions. I took all her anger and lashing out, I deserved it. However we never talked of splitting up.
This was something very uncharacteristic for me. No matter what, it was what is called today, an EA. I still feel a deep shame inside to this day. Now a couple months later I deployed on a 6 month forward deployment to the Persian Gulf. Slowly things normalized over the next year or so. If she has ever to this day asked anything of it, I do my best to answer, given the length of time, to the best of my ability.
OK, so that cats out of the bag now, I cheated. No other way to say it! But wait, there's more, much more to this. I will contnue over several posts to today's current issues.

Oh man, that brought up some memories I totally forgot. I remember the AOL chat rooms, meeting someone random and hooking up had never been so easy. I must of done at least a dozen girls using that thing. Good times....and better stories.

 

[TinyTbone]

Well folks, what a mess huh. Must be quite the surprise to alot of you that have known me since I joined. Followed the posts and comments I've made. Probably thinking to your selves...gee what a hypocrite. Maybe, I don't know, it's all so darned confusing inside.
I have such a conflict inside. I know that this is o wrong and what a mess, that i should walk away, should have years ago. Yet part of me says, you love her, you made a solemn oath to her and to God. I have done my best to honor that oath. Yet I've also though of exiting. Just going to the store or to work and not coming back. 3 times I've turned around after 50 miles away and came back. Even in casual conversation with daughter and wife said, yeah ya know, if it ends, I'll just leave, buy a cheap trac phone, chunk the other one, clean out the accounts, set up my direct deposits to a new account. Go somewhere, work under the table for awhile. Get the money to buy a fake ssn and birth cerificate, sell the truck in another state, buy a new car in another and get a new license with new I.D., JUST DISAPPEAR! do all my banking through online when needed, otherwise cash only. Of course I told my daughter I'd be in touch with her and she'd know my number only.
Wife and daughter were a bit shocked and commented, you've really thought this out. I flatly said yep.
The only other to hear this complete story, has been my therapist. This is the first time I've spoken this publicly at anytime. Well except a couple of folks here by pm and they know who they are. I've been a private person. Never have real, deep friendships, mainly because of my childhood. When those you love and worship beat you, inflict pain physically and emotionally it can make one very hard. I put on a brave face and smile for the cameras, while dieing inside. I'm a baby boomer, raised to suck it up butter cup. Real men don't cry. They get it done! I have a beautiful antique bench in our bedroom. Told the wife I've nick named it the crying bench. She asked why. Told her because she doesn't know how many times in the night or early morning, that I've woke up, then sat on that bench, looking at her, thinking about her, about us, softly crying and wondering how did it get so f u k e d up!!

 

[TinyTbone]

Have you thought of requesting she does a lie detector test? As part of the condition for the marriage to continue?

Yes. I told her this when we had our first come to Jesus talk a couple weeks ago. That I'm absolutely distrustful of what she has said and whether it's full on true or just a partial truth to cover her butt. She knows now, without a doubt we are walking on thin ice. That I just can't believe her anymore about us and our past. I'm haunted by so many what if's. Mind movies and rampaging thoughts.
I've begun to inquire with advertised services on polygraph testing companies near us. This will most likely happen. At least is she wishes to continue in our relationship, and she can save all the boo hoo hoo crap about not trusting. These are the consquences of our actions in life. For good or bad decisions or actions we do.

 

[Openminded]

I divorced a cheater when I was in my mid-60’s and I‘ve never regretted it but few people late in life take that step because of all it involves. Your wife fears divorce — and she should because she likely can’t support herself — so my guess is that she’ll agree to anything in order for that not to happen. Whether that will be enough for you to feel comfortable is unknown.

 

[Divine&FemPatriciaBlue]

Yep, you are right with this! I thought i was being all grown up. Boy was that one of the biggest regrets of my life! I really thought that she wouldn't do this kind of crap. I was the nieve one.

Edit to add: you and Quad73 are correct. Looking back...crap. why is hindsight 20/20?

I mean, two wrong don’t make a right. It is hard to hold it against her with your omission HOWEVER, you didn’t keep on with the dudes and over stepping. This is where I can’t rectify it.

So two years before my husband offed himself, on his birthday, two days from our 13th anniversary, he started messaging an old classmate. Asking for nudes, her trying to tantalize him and tease him for more attention, ect.

Instead of owning it, in front of his BFF, he said what I was reading wasn’t true and for that matter it wasn’t a big deal. Mind you, this is almost 10 years after my flub up to which I paid the ultimate price of sacrificing all of myself To appease him, taking the yelling and screaming, the blocking me in rooms while he went on his rage filled tangent about the affair.

So my question is, when is enough enough? How long are we supposed to live in purgatory? I laughed at the conversation really. It was pitiful, first off, the chick looked like a meth ridden hag, but I am presuming he remembered her from their high school days. His best friend was like what are you doing? That’s the one you want to remember 🤢.

His bff knew about my affair, because my husband called him right away to make an ally. It didn’t really go in his favor though (we will call him L) L knew late husbands history and his first question was “oh really? Patricia? So where were you? What have you been up to.” Anyway.. the rest of the afternoon he proceeded to say well you remember when she.. and L wasn’t having it. He said “that was a decade ago, you have got to let that go and if you can’t, you should let P go. You know you played a big role in that.”

Anyway, I wasn’t as hurt about it, he was drunk by 10am that day and just looking for attention. I gave him so much attention, if I wasn’t enough, no one would be. That was a him issue.

All I’m saying is there’s a limit of retribution imo that any person should or can take and she’s more than paid you back tit for tat. I don’t even understand how you could
possibly believe anything she has to say at this point. Getting anything out of her would be a moot point.

 

[Affaircare]

@TinyTbone ,

First, as you know, I also was unfaithful in my marriage to dear hubby who passed. As always it's a long story, but to summarize we were young enough to try for a baby but knew it would be less likely. We fell pregnant, but lost the baby at about 16 weeks, and yep, we both deeply mourned. After that we had more medical testing done and found out I was entering perimenopause and he had motility issues...so our baby days were over. We both deeply mourned that too. My idea of mourning is to draw closer and lean on each other and cry together--his idea of mourning is to close off, shut down, and completely isolate. To me, I felt like I lost my baby, lost the ability to be a mother, lost a major part of how I defined myself (as fertile and earth-mother), and then lost my husband! And yep, at that time someone just paid a compliment and paid attention, and I slide right down the slippery slope.

We were able to truly reconcile because I was accountable for what I had done, named it by name, and took the time to help him heal--and very graciously, he also took the time to learn and grow to become a better husband (like "walling off after a tragedy is not relating"). It takes two to recover.

So I've been following along your ENTIRE story--all the posts. You know that I know that the time apart during deployment is very hard on a marriage. You know that I understand humans can do wrong and grow from it--it's fairly unlikely but not impossible. So I'm reading your posts, and I can pretty much hear the pain in every word! Were you perfect? NOPE. But it sounds like you did realize the error of your ways and change, meaning you stopped doing that AND you learned how to be a committed, faithful married man with healthy opposite sex boundaries that you enforce on your own self. Was your wife perfect? NOPE. But it sounds like rather than realizing the error of her ways and stopping, she has in the past and continues in the present to do her darnedest to defend her wrongdoing, refuse to learn how to be a committed, faithful married woman, and keep her opposite sex boundaries weak and inappropriate. Long story short: it sounds like she won't admit to herself she was wrong and she doesn't want to protect you or the marriage from her character flaws and weaknesses!

Hey, we all have flaws. We all have weaknesses! The goal isn't "to be perfect" or to be all judgemental on yourself. The goal is to value your partner and your marriage enough to protect them against the flaws and weaknesses you know you have! To me, it doesn't sound like she cares about you enough to face herself.

Now, you have said that divorcing would pretty much take you to the cleaners financially and this late in life, with what you're facing, you don't see that as a wise option. Plus, I suspect you are a decent enough human being that you don't want to divorce! Here's reality: that is not how your partner feels about YOU. No matter how bad you may want or wish or hope that your spouse would "see the light" and want to work things out, I don't see that as reality right now. I see avoiding losing all her assets and lifestyle at best.

Thus, here's my proposal. Buy a vacation home where YOU want to live--I don't care if it costs some, just get a little place if you want--and go live happily there. Keep the marriage "on paper" but get away from the gaslighting and DARVO and ongoing trauma. Yep, you'd be paying two mortgages but what the heck! You wouldn't lose everything and you'd be away from constant PTSD triggers. You may even find some peace. Just go live elsewhere, where you find joy.

 

[Divine&FemPatriciaBlue]

We were able to truly reconcile because I was accountable for what I had done, named it by name, and took the time to help him heal--and very graciously, he also took the time to learn and grow to become a better husband (like "walling off after a tragedy is not relating"). It takes two to recover.

THIS. It takes two, and she ain’t being the second party. Just saying. Affaire, I did not know this. Now I understand why you get me so deeply.

 

[Quad73]

No matter how bad you may want or wish or hope that your spouse would "see the light" and want to work things out, I don't see that as reality right now. I see avoiding losing all her assets and lifestyle at best

Yup.

TT, sounds to me like you're looking at a woman who just doesn't care. Expecting her to change is just asking for yet more pain.

Affaircare took the words out of my mouth - separate if you can't divorce. You desperately need some peace.

 

[TXTrini]

Oh man, this caught me in the feels. I'm so sorry you've grappled with this for so long. Damn, I'm in tears feeling your pain coming through. Been there... got kicked in the ass for trying to save a ****ty marriage to someone with ****ty (or no) morals.

There's no point looking back on what coulda been, what What you shoulda done, that's a done deal. You're here now in anguish 😧 and I have zero advice for you. Only empathy.

I was in your shoes back when I first joined but never posted, I simply didn't have the words or courage then to bare my heart to strangers. Like you, I'm a very private person, with few close friends or anyone really I'd trust 100% so it's absolutely understandable how emotionally draining it is to put your pain out there. Thank you for sharing.

We care about you, you're not alone. There's no room for anyone here to judge you, no matter if you feel like a hypocrite. Every last one of us is here for a reason, disclosed or not no matter what front is posted.

I can't remember how old you said you were, but Openminded share her experience with divorce at 60. It's never too late to take a shot at happiness, even if it ends up just being you. You never know what life can bring tomorrow until you decide to try. Listening to some of the men here, a woman should expect to be a single cat lady after 35 😆. I was 40 and absolutely frozen with fear, I'm still afraid, but we all die alone at the end. How do you want that to feel?

I know this is rather morbid, but your wife sounds completely unrepentant and callous. What do you see in her eyes when you talk about your feelings? It's understandable for you to want to stay in your comfort zone, especially being a cancer survivor and having a mental illness. It's a tough choice to go it alone now, so no judgment here. I see a lot of myself in "The body keeps score", have you read it? It's 5 years post divorce for me and I'm still trying to put Humpty Dumpty together again so I can only imagine how it's been for you dealing with this for so long. Stress really does a number on you, you deserve some peace. Affaircare had some phenomenal advice, it might be something to think about.

Sorry about the epistle! Just know you're not alone, you're not deficient in anyway and you dont deserve this. We don't get the life we deserve, just the one we choose. TAM is here with you for the journey.

 

[TinyTbone]

Wow! Thanks Affaircare for that thoughtful response. You actually mirrored a huge amount of what my therapist talked about in our last session after the BIG talk. The only part we haven't discussed is the different place option...yet.
One thing about my therapist. When I had my first appointment with her, I asked a question. Are you pro marriage or pro happiness? Her thoughtful response was happiness. That sealed the deal for me. Now a question i asked my wife and couple years ago was this. Would you rather be happy, or would you rather be right? Her response was both?!?

 

[Quad73]

Now a question i asked my wife and couple years ago was this. Would you rather be happy, or would you rather be right? Her response was both?!?

When she feels she's right, she's happy.
Makes sense to me.

 

[TinyTbone]

I am humbled at this moment by all here and there acceptance and responses and advice! It has taken over 2 years to finally be able to go publicly all this. I know what it says isn't unique, but it is to me.
I've held this in for so long and it's been eating me alive. I've been having more and more anxiety attacks, becoming more and more incapacitating. SnakePlissken, take note. I fully realize what you go through with the anxiety panic attacks!
When I've posted to others here, I've been honest and empathetic. Thought hard on right and wrong with all the colors in between, all the while somewhat paralyzed. This is my first step at making a change in myself and my life. A baby step at deciding to move forward singlely or together.
We are having daily discussions about all of it. Not arguing, talking and listening. I don't know what my future holds, but I do know I stand at a Y in the road.

 

[Affaircare]

... One thing about my therapist. When I had my first appointment with her, I asked a question. Are you pro marriage or pro happiness? Her thoughtful response was happiness. That sealed the deal for me.

@TinyTbone , in my opinion that's a kind of loaded question, because it sort of presents it as if it is one...or the other. I don't know that marriage and happiness are in competition or opposition to one another! LOL You know I'm not a spring chicken, right? In my 60+ spins around the sun, I've learned that you can be completely happy AND let the other person win the argument...because happiness is a choice. It doesn't just happen and it's out of your control. Some people are poor and hungry, yet happy because they have sunshine and birds singing. Others have the moon and stars and are not happy, because their heart is dark and hard.

I think the more accurate question might have been "Are you pro-marriage at all costs? or pro healthy relationship?" I am definitely pro healthy relating! But happiness comes and goes, with the monthly tides, with the amount of sleep, with hunger or fullness... all those things can affect "happiness" and thus it is too unstable and undependable to build on.

Now a question i asked my wife and couple years ago was this. Would you rather be happy, or would you rather be right? Her response was both?!?

Well... hrrrrpf! I can tell you right now, it is entirely possible to know in your heart that your partner is wrong and you are right, and just choose to let it go because it makes you happy to do so. It is entirely possible to be completely in the wrong, recognize it, admit it, and do what you can to repair the damage you've done from being wrong. It is entirely possible to be fully wrong and laugh at yourself--how funny you are! Happiness isn't even connected to "right or wrong"!

I don't know, TT--if I were in your shoes, I would take some time away and get my own peace.

 

[TinyTbone]

@TinyTbone , in my opinion that's a kind of loaded question, because it sort of presents it as if it is one...or the other. I don't know that marriage and happiness are in competition or opposition to one another! LOL You know I'm not a spring chicken, right? In my 60+ spins around the sun, I've learned that you can be completely happy AND let the other person win the argument...because happiness is a choice. It doesn't just happen and it's out of your control. Some people are poor and hungry, yet happy because they have sunshine and birds singing. Others have the moon and stars and are not happy, because their heart is dark and hard.

I think the more accurate question might have been "Are you pro-marriage at all costs? or pro healthy relationship?" I am definitely pro healthy relating! But happiness comes and goes, with the monthly tides, with the amount of sleep, with hunger or fullness... all those things can affect "happiness" and thus it is too unstable and undependable to build on.


Well... hrrrrpf! I can tell you right now, it is entirely possible to know in your heart that your partner is wrong and you are right, and just choose to let it go because it makes you happy to do so. It is entirely possible to be completely in the wrong, recognize it, admit it, and do what you can to repair the damage you've done from being wrong. It is entirely possible to be fully wrong and laugh at yourself--how funny you are! Happiness isn't even connected to "right or wrong"!


I don't know, TT--if I were in your shoes, I would take some time away and get my own peace.

I just wanted to ensure that she was on board with happiness the focal point. That marriage was not the ends all, beats all in life.
Yes I'm aware of your "youth"! Ha heck I'm no spring chicken! 65 this year, so I guess I'm not quite the catch of the day no more.

 

[TinyTbone]

Pride cometh before the fall.

 

[Blossom Leigh]

I 💯 support the second residence.

That is exactly where I am... and as soon as my son's highschool is done, I'm shifting again...

 

[Divine&FemPatriciaBlue]

I just wanted to ensure that she was on board with happiness the focal point. That marriage was not the ends all, beats all in life.
Yes I'm aware of your "youth"! Ha heck I'm no spring chicken! 65 this year, so I guess I'm not quite the catch of the day no more.

My LH would have been 60. I’m just saying, don’t count yourself out. Yes I know he wasn’t 60 when he nabbed me but.. 🤷🏼‍♀️ even my young but doesn’t consider that to be “old.” Not as many do anyhow. But I also wouldn’t make finding another partner your focal point either.