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Distressed

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#1 ·
I am at my wit’s end and need some help to assess what is going on in my marriage and what I should do about it. My wife’s behavior over the past three or four months has been very strange and erratic. She has a stressful professional job and works 10 hours a day, but she is successful at it, and I have seen no signs of any professional trauma. There are also no obvious other bad things happening in her life that I can see – no problems with friends or family.

We have been married for two years. She is 38 and I am 47, first marriage for her and second marriage for me. We don’t have any kids. Fortunately, we don’t have any major financial or health or family issues to deal with.

We used to get along wonderfully. She was so sweet and thoughtful and supportive. I tried to be the same. We were so into each other. We rarely fought, always made up. We had what I thought was a fulfilling sex life.

Move forward a year, and although I don’t think I have changed, she sure has. I don’t recognize her any more: she is moody, not so affectionate, and gets angry at me for no apparent reason at all. For example, last week we were installing two new major appliances at home, the tags for which state should be installed by a professional for reasons of safety and warranty. She wanted to get out the tool box and install them ourselves. I said calmly that we should probably not do it ourselves but press the installer a little harder to come back next week. She blew up, calling me all kinds of names like slow and lazy and she hates people who don’t take initiative. Clearly she has some bigger issue here because I am anything but slow and lazy and lack initiative – but I do prefer to be methodical and do things properly. But this is an example of how I can’t seem to do anything right any more.

She says she can’t talk to me any more. When I say let’s sit down and talk now, or sleep together and talk tomorrow, or go away for the weekend somewhere quiet where we can talk, she dismisses this and tells me I “don’t know how to talk”. She then walks away coldly. I try to tell her that in “talking”, we both need to try to understand the other person’s perspective, whether we agree with it or not. She is always very judgmental of me and my situation. I don’t seem to be able to get a fair hearing.

There has been a double standard going on too for some time: she can come home from work very late without calling, but if I am an hour delayed because of a client call, she gets angry. She talks frequently on the phone during dinner without apology, but if I once a week need to send an urgent e-mail, she gets up from the table in a huff.

I think she is a bit of a control freak. We went away for a weekend to another city and spent much of it with some of her friends there. (They are nice people, so I don’t have any problem with that.) But when I want to have my friends over for dinner, she protests about the inconvenience. It’s like I only get one time a month to socialize. (She is very pleasant and charming when we do, but it sometimes seems like an act rather than a desire.)

Last night, she came home late, walked right by me (when I had my outstretched arms open for hug), took a shower and went to bed. She turned her back to me. I gave her a hug and asked what was wrong and she said “nothing”.

That’s when the light went on in my head. I connected the ugly recent dots. She has been very secretive with her cell phone and computer for the past few months. Two months ago, I observed a few too many calls with a certain male co-worker. When I commented on it, even half-jokingly saying I was a little “jealous”, she warmed up nervously -- and we had great sex that night. I checked the cell phone and there is no record any more of this guy calling, but there are two names of men whose names I hadn’t heard before and who call way too much, and out of business hours. I fear these are fake names for the same guy.

Last week, late in the evening, I came out of the bathroom half-way through my shower because I needed the new shampoo I had purchased. I overheard her on the cell-phone, talking in affectionate, hushed tones to someone. I didn't let on I had heard.

We left for work a little late yesterday in her car, and she had her personal cell phone on hands-free. One of the two "names" called (it was displayed on the dashboard) and she hung up twice, without answering. Minutes later, her business cell phone rang, and she pretended that the male caller was a formal business contact, but the info she gave him and the really quick sign-off suggests anything but. She didn’t say who it was but turned rapidly so sweet and nice to me (like old days), asking if we should “go out for dinner tonight”.

I am not a perfect man, but I have been a good and loving husband, and I deserve better than this. Her family and colleagues seem to like me a lot; I certainly do them. I have tried numerous times to get her to talk about “us” and how we can improve our marriage and communication, but it’s always about her – unless someone is at “fault”, in which case it’s all about me.

I don’t have any hard evidence about an affair, so nothing conclusive to confront her with. But my gut is screaming otherwise.

Even without the affair, this pattern of self-centered and controlling behavior is very distressing.

Anyone have any advice?
 
#108 ·
B-
So after the blame shifting you mentioned and the a little history rewrite, along with no remorse whats so ever, you still need to go to the next step.
Evidence=check
Confrontation=check
EXPOSURE=


So there was no admission, it happens, now is the time to make this affair as difficult as possible by exposing it to a small group;OMW, W's family, and if its work related then employeer HR dept.

Making this A uncomfrotable will bring reality crashing down on them. So please take this next step.
 
#110 ·
One more thing B-
I thought the set up was ingenious. Well played with fake call, well played.

I couldn't think of a better set up to the confrontation.

I'm sorry it went south, but who would of thought your W would be dumb enought to start something and not expect the same thing to happen to her.

Please do tell, what was her reaction when she saw that it was your own # on the own cell? Why in the hell would she immediately make a call to OM in front of you? please clarify.
 
#113 ·
One more thing B-
I thought the set up was ingenious. Well played with fake call, well played.

I couldn't think of a better set up to the confrontation.
I just felt like it after seeing her do it once too often!

I'm sorry it went south, but who would of thought your W would be dumb enought to start something and not expect the same thing to happen to her.
Maybe Uptown and Pidge can help me here, but she's not a big believer in a balanced relationship. She can stay out to all hours, but if I have to work past 8:00 pm, she gives me heck. She can talk for hours at the dinner table on her cell to friends and colleagues, but if I take an urgent call I had been waiting for, then I am some awful husband.

She has a "nobody controls me" but "I need to control you" type of attitude. Is this a common feature of BPD?

Please do tell, what was her reaction when she saw that it was your own # on the own cell? Why in the hell would she immediately make a call to OM in front of you? please clarify.
She said that I had obviously deleted the number of the supposed other person. When I said, let's get the phone records, she said "I am not interested in phone records, I am talking about your conduct". Like, ????

She didn't make the Blackberry messenger texts in front of me, I went to take a shower, and came out early and heard the repeated pings late on a Friday night, so I knew it was him. I surprised her and pulled it out from her hand. Love notes, caught red-handed.

She does seem to think that she can get away with a lot, and I won't notice somehow. An air of superiority and invincibility somehow.
 
#112 ·
Berilo, thanks for your latest update. That went amazingly WELL for a divorce announcement with a BPDer. She didn't have you arrested and neither of you was seriously hurt physically. I therefore am very happy for you that this stage of the divorce (i.e., the announcement and separation) is behind you.

I agree with Pidge that you did nothing wrong. On the contrary, you did so many things right. Having your W's temper tantrum recorded may prove useful in court because, as I've said, you won't be able to prove she has strong BPD traits by bringing in a psychologist. Like TheGuy, I sure would have liked to see the expression on her face when she realized you had only called yourself. That was icing on the cake! You did well, Berilo. Very very well!
 
#116 ·
Thanks, Uptown. I don't feel I did very well at all, given that this is a lose-lose situation, and I saw yet another very unattractive facet of my soon-to-be ex. I have never before been in a confrontation/argument where there is more than a few doors slammed, minor objects tossed, or dramatic (but not harmful) clasping or grabbing or pinning. Funny that after she smashed my cell phone, she tore it into bits. And she focused on my briefcase laptop to throw out of a high apartment window. And started to hit me, including with the tv remote.

A lot of pent-up anger and violence in a relatively petite woman. But no "we have a problem, we're both angry, let's sit down and talk about it".


Having your W's temper tantrum recorded may prove useful in court because, as I've said, you won't be able to prove she has strong BPD traits by bringing in a psychologist.
Actually, given the location of my VAR in my stuff, the sounds of her raving are punctuated by the equally loud sounds of zippers closing on 4 suitcases! It's quite a soundtrack!
 
#115 ·
Thanks, it makes sence " I'm super women I can do no wrong"

I quess you wont see any admission from this type of person, and as we all have read here at TAM, there has to be an admission to move forward in the M. So sorry bro, I don't see this marriage happening until .................wait she won't.

Sorry bro, I hope she gets help but prepare to protect your self with a divorce.
 
#117 ·
Unfortunately that control thing was very common with me. It is so encompassing. Even when everything was falling around me, as long as I was the cause of it...I was still in control. I know it makes absolutely no sense to a "normal" person. Hell, it makes no sense to me in hindsight.
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#118 ·
So the sound track sounds something like this;
" You son of ZIIIIIIIIP, how dare you ZIIIIIIIIP, I will ZIIIIIIIIIP, if you don't ZIIIIIIIIP the hell out of here" LOL

I hope my attempt of humor cheers you up, Make no mistake I am no making light of your pain, I've been there, just trying to do the impossible by making you feel a little better.
 
#120 ·
I should have mentioned that she didn't want me to leave, tried to get me back from the taxi curb. (Not begging, just saying what was I doing, with a threat that I can't come back if I leave.)

So, I thought, let me get this straight: you have just given me (additional) conclusive proof of your affair, you have smashed my cell phone, thrown my laptop out the window, and whacked me over the head with the tv remote. And you think I am going to stay? Why would ANYONE put up with that, if just to get themselves out of the situation for the night (let alone forever)?
 
#125 ·
B....
Sorry your going through this......

You need to go ASAP to police dept. to file a police report, not to press charges but to document your side if the event before anything else happens or she beats you to the punch with a made up story that places you in the bad light .... Good you have the VAR but hold that bit of info back until you have to share....

She is not well, not far fetch in my eyes in light of what you shared to see her harming herself and tell the police you did it to her.....she is going to want to get the upper hand back.
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#126 ·
She called me last night, asking to come by and pick me up and take me home.

She didn't say she was sorry, she didn't say we had a lot to talk about, she didn't say "marriage isn't easy", or "I don't think I've been as good to you as I should have", or some other reasonable opener to an honest conversation. She just asked if I was ready to tell her who called me Friday night (on my self-call)! I repeated that it was one of my cells to another, and we could get the phone records to prove it. She said she is not interested in documents. (!!!!)

She then asked to come pick me up. I said no thanks.

This is really weird. Is this pathetic effort at attacking me (again) for a non-existant minor transgression her way of deflecting the conversation away from her grotesquely blatant and serious conduct -- or does she really not see the enormous imbalance here?

Once again, it's like the murderer who, when arrested, tells the cop, "you can't arrest me, you've got a parking ticket!". Have these BPD people no moral compass at all?
 
#132 ·
Have these BPD people no moral compass at all?
I agree with Pidge and Joe. My experience is that BPDers, as a group, do not lack good morals. What they lack, instead, is emotional stability. This deficiency results in their frequently experiencing very intense feelings that distort their perception of your intentions. Hence, when a BPDer is splitting you black, she perceives you to be Hitler and will treat you accordingly.

Moreover, for high functioning BPDers, the distorted perception usually occurs only with respect to her loved ones because they pose a threat to her two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. In contrast, strangers and casual friends pose no threat because there is no close LTR to be abandoned and no intimacy to trigger engulfment. This is why -- as I noted earlier -- a BPDer can be generous and caring all day long to strangers and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love her.
She can stay out to all hours, but if I have to work past 8:00 pm, she gives me heck. She can talk for hours at the dinner table on her cell to friends and colleagues, but if I take an urgent call I had been waiting for, then I am some awful husband.
The use of such double standards -- one set for her and another set of rules for you -- is typical of BPDers. If they are untreated, their emotional development is stuck at about age four, so they are very limited in their ability to protect their fragile egos. They are restricted to using the primitive ego defenses available to a young child. These include denial, projection, double standards, and black-white thinking.

Although most BPDers I've met are very intelligent people, trying to reason with them goes nowhere because it is extremely painful and shameful for them to acknowledge making a mistake. Hence, when you have them in a corner, they usually will not hesitate to try to lie their way out of it. Reasoning does not work because, when they are arguing with you, they "split off" the logical intellectual part of their minds -- putting it out of reach of the conscious part. You therefore are left trying to reason with the emotional, intuitive part of their minds, i.e., with their "inner child."

Certainly, that is what my exW would do. Yet, if I was really upset with her lies and didn't speak to her for days, her abandonment fear grew so strong that she would eventually collapse into a sobbing, shaking state in which she appeared to be disintegrating, breaking down. At that point, she would admit to the lies and reveal the self-loathing she always kept hidden so well. And she would threaten suicide. Because it was so frightening to see her in such a broken state, I only pushed her to that limit a few times in our 15 years together (e.g., when on two occasions she ran up $5,000 in debt on secret credit cards I found out about).
She has a "nobody controls me" but "I need to control you" type of attitude. Is this a common feature of BPD?
Yes, as Joe explained, a BPDer has a strong desire to control every aspect of her loved one's life. This is due to her great fear of abandonment, her inability to trust anyone, and her great difficulty with "object constancy," i.e., realizing that other people have stable personalities and desires that are reasonably constant over time. To augment that control, it is common for BPDers to try to isolate their spouses from the other family members and friends who would be supportive.
 
#128 ·
It's her way of keeping you on the defensive so she is still "in control". In her mind what you did (even though it was nothing) justifies what she is doing. She gets to be what she always sees herself as. The wronged one.
 
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#129 ·
That has to be it, because she has displayed almost zero empathy for me. I don't she understands how my heart sank (again) when I saw those love messages on her phone on Friday. Does she think that is nothing? I have never had an affair, but if I did, and my wife found a cache of love messages from me to another woman, I would feel enormously guilty for the hurt I caused her in just seeing them.

An idea that hit me is that maybe this guy IS nothing, and that she's just torquing him up for the attention from him. The love messages to him have been so emotional and over-the-top that maybe he's just the latest victim of her "love-bombing". Of course he is responding to the attention in a very positive way to her.
 
#131 ·
BPD'ers generally have no empathy for others. Classic symptom/sign. I can't begin to say I know for a fact what she is thinking but, I can tell you what I would be thinking.

Her transgression is not a priority if she even feels she did wrong. Your fake phone call on the other hand just proves to her what she probably felt all along. You would fail her in some way. I'm not saying you did at all, just saying that is how she is most likely justifying it all in her mind.

You will most likely never be able to understand what is happening or why. You will drive yourself insane trying though. I am sorry you have had to deal with such a person.

I am not defending her by any means but, you need to realize if she truly is BPD, she had no choice in the matter. No one in there right mind would want to be a BPD'er. There is nothing you could have done that would have ever been right. It is as Joe put it, a no-win situation. Your wife's actions are not because of you or anything you may have or have not done. Her actions are all on her BPD or not.

I truly hope you can find some peace. Be wary though, it will get worse before it gets better. Protect yourself legally and make sure you keep all texts and or emails from her. If you speak to her in person, carry a VAR. She will get nasty and vindictive.

Take care of yourself.
 
#133 ·
Stay strong B- and keep your distance in the hope that soon she will see the bottom of the barrel and seek help.
I know with hope comes disappointment, so distance your self and watch.
My thinking is if you stop engaging her she may find a last ditch effort to repair the marriage and with that it will be under your terms and that pro help and meds will be step one for her.

The thing that sucks is, after reading all of the above replies it seems like a long road or a cold day before she will ever take a desprite approach to do things on your term!
 
#136 ·
TheGuy: I do expect that she will crash soon and come back, paradoxically telling me to return to the old apartment as she beats me over the head.

But given what she has done, and more pointedly, the severe psychosis she suffers (whether BPD or other), it would be very hard for me to take her back. I am proceeding firmly on the separation and divorce path. I told her about separation, but haven't spelled out D-I-V-O-R-C-E yet. I want to be wearing Kevlar and have at least one witness present before I inform her of that!
 
#142 ·
I haven't heard from her in almost 48 hours.

I sent her an email last evening saying basically "We are where we are, no point in fighting with each other, let's just be as civil as possible with each other so the transformation doesn't hurt any more than it has to".

No response. Is she celebrating, disintegrating, out with OM to distract herself, trying to outwait me, plotting some counter-attack, or what?

Once again, the weirdness of all this is really wearing on me.
 
#143 ·
Berilo, thanks for the update.
I haven't heard from her in almost 48 hours.
Please forgive me for being flip but your W -- like my exW -- gives new meaning to the expression, "No news is good news."
No response. Is she celebrating, disintegrating, out with OM to distract herself, trying to outwait me, plotting some counter-attack, or what?
Does it matter? I mean, seriously? No matter what a BPDer is plotting, thinking, or scheming today, everything can easily change 180 degrees next week -- or even tomorrow. Being unable to control their emotions, they go with the whim of whatever intense feeling is sweeping through their minds at the moment. Instead of challenging that feeling intellectually, they accept it as truth. This is why I always advise "Nons" to not fret and worry about what a BPDer is thinking or planning at this particular moment in time. It will quickly change.

And this is why, despite all their attempts to manipulate and control their partners, BPDers are not very good at manipulation. They are too reactive to their current feelings. For manipulation to be effective, good planning and flawless execution are required -- both of which are usually undone by a BPDer's lack of impulse control. Instead of manipulation, you are more likely to see controlling and opportunistic behavior -- where your W sees an opportunity suddenly present itself that enables her to take advantage of you.
Once again, the weirdness of all this is really wearing on me.
Yes, that "weirdness" of seeing what-you-believed-to-be-your-soul-mate turn on you and betray you is so familiar to all of us Nons who were in a BPDer relationship. That's why BPDcentral -- at BPD Central - borderline personality disorder resources - support -- calls its forum "Welcome to Oz." (Another great BPD forum targeted to us Nons is BPDfamily, which I mentioned earlier.) That otherworldly feeling of waking up to find the world turned upside down will rapidly diminish over time, if you heal at the rate I did. In my case, however, it has never disappeared entirely. Instead, the feeling just occurs farther and farther apart. So I still have rare days -- five years post separation -- of feeling that way.
 
#147 ·
She called me this morning, wants to talk. We fixed a time for Sunday afternoon, but I made sure it is in a public place.

I don't know exactly what she wants to talk about. Certainly we have a few "business" items to discuss -- for me, it will be a test of how amicable this split is going to be.

I will avoid being drawn into any replay of last week's drama, but let's see what she will do. Certainly, I will be ready to bolt from the public place if things get difficult.

Any advice on how to handle it? I don't want to assume she wants to be aggressive, or wants to try to save the marriage, until I see. Maybe with luck she'll agree on the way forward and we can both exit stage left and right, respectively, at a minimum of hassle and expense. But I am not hopeful, somehow ...
 
#151 ·
Try get two friends to go with and have coffee close enough to observe you, as this is a public place she should behave. The VAR is a must and check it works in a noisy place . Be calm , listen , don't nod your head or make sounds that imply you are agreeing with her. Set high boundaries and demands of what you want, don't blink, try not to show facial expressions and do not be tempted to agree a way forward without first consulting an attorney.

If she is unwilling to commit totally to the marriage without diluting the boundaries, have herself submitted for treatment , or accept full responability for her behaviours then this is a waste of a meeting.

I suspect she may try manipulate, intimidate or threaten you either directly or indirectly.
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#153 ·
Thanks for the advice, E-Z. I too am worried. I am proceeding with the split, I don't want to reconcile. I don't see how I could go back to her given how she is. I am only hoping she too sees that this is the right thing to do, and at least we can be cooly "business-like" or "civil" at a distance until all the property and logistical issues are dealt with.
 
#155 ·
Can you please explain to me why BDPers have no empathy for their spouse's situation?
They typically have a compromised ability to recognize the feelings and needs of others associated with interpersonal hypersensitivity. This is why they are prone to feel slighted or insulted by innocuous things you do or say. And their perceptions of others tend to be selectively biased toward negative attributes or vulnerabilities. The basis of this hypersensitivity is their inability to manage their emotions, resulting in feelings that are overly intense. This inability to control emotions stems from their emotional development having been frozen at about age four. Hence, you effectively are asking "Why does someone with the emotional development of a four year old have so little empathy for other people?" The short answer, then, is "That's the way all four year olds behave."
 
#157 · (Edited)
If she is actually BPD, then behind all that anger is fear. There is a book about BPD called "I hate you - don't leave me" and even the title of that book describes it succinctly. A majority of BPDers fear abandonment and all their weird behaviors are just their maladjusted ways to avoid it (yep, even the anger). So when you meet up with her, you never know, she may act differently than you expect because at the root of it, this split between you guys will be abandonment to her. So she will want to avoid that because to her, abandonment is devastating. This is textbook BPD stuff ofcourse so it varies from person to person. I just thought I would throw that out there.

So yeah, just be prepared because she may act a bit violent, etc like was already mentioned (good idea about meeting in the public place btw) or she might even just be a sobbing mess or really really emotional, it could go either way really. But yeah very good idea with the meeting in a public place.
 
#158 ·
Whether she is BPD or not is irrelevant as far as domestic violence is concerned. Simply put, there is no excuse for domestic violence, and just because you are a man, does not mean you have to put up with domestic violence from her. She physically assaulted you. She's obviously a violent person, so to protect yourself, follow the advice above by having a VAR on you and meeting in a public place. When it comes time to retrieve your property, you can call the police to stand by and keep the peace while you retrieve your personal property.

I don't understand why domestic violence by females tend to be overlooked and/or downplayed. In the past, I HAVE arrested the wife for domestic violence when the situation warranted it.
 
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