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Bear in mind they went two years ago. We have been much closer since then.
It's great that you feel closer now, but you have to keep in mind that it's all built on lies. It also doesn't negate the fact that she most likely had sex with her AP on that trip. You act like you really don't care about that detail, as long as she's not doing it now, which I find odd but to each their own.

I can't recommend sweeping that detail under the rug though, because it will come back up at some point. It could be in a year, 5 years, or 20, but things that aren't properly dealt with tend to find their way back to the surface.

Wow amazing how much everyone knows about me from a post.
I suggest you read some of my replies to other comments. Some clarification may make you less judgmental of who I am- which could not be more wrong.
I read every reply before posting anything, and still stand by what I said. I wasn't speaking to you personally, I was responding to someone who asked why men come here, ask for help, then fail to take action. Thus far, you HAVE failed to take action for months, at least, and you posted this 10 days ago and still haven't done anything about it.

And I'm not judging you or trying to be an ass. I joined here because my wife was cheating (though I didn't know at the time) and there was pages and pages of me refusing to accept what people said or take their advice. I was called all sorts of names (still am) and judged for moving "too slowly". And in the end I didn't take the advice of the majority (to divorce), but I also didn't sweep it under the rug, fail to do anything about it, or accept it and move on. We went through the literal hell of properly dealing with it. And yes, it SUCKS, but it's the only way through if you want to rebuild your marriage.

This is much more useful advice than the diatribes of “she is still cheating and leave her and you’re a wimp”. So thanks for that. I do have a plan- to give her conditions for my staying on if she admits to her past and shows remorse.
What conditions do you plan to give her, if she admits to everything?

You raise a good point about remorse vs regret- I have had the benefit of seeing piles of remorse and regret over the last two years since I discovered the affair on me. She has consistently told me how sorry she is and how she wish she could take it all back. Shy tells me she loves me unprompted and speaks frequently of growing old together. Those are the actions and words that tell me she is serious about us
I understand that you're seeing what you think is remorse in her words and daily actions, but what she's showing is not real remorse. When I think of words that I associate with remorse (having been through it) it's things like honesty, transparency, openness, accountability, initiative, consistency, humility, empathy, patience, sacrifice, reassurance.

Instead, your wife has been lying to you for decades and is still lying to you - that's not honesty. She refuses to give you access to her phone records, and you've had to snoop through her phone and desk just to uncover pieces of the truth - that's not transparency, openness, sacrifice, or reassurance. She had countless opportunities to come clean, but instead chose to lie, deflect, storm out, and happily bury it - that's not accountability, empathy, or initiative. She kept texts with him going back years, even after being caught, and she kept sexual photos for decades - that's not humility, it's not even regret.

Telling you she loves you, wishing she could take it back, talking about growing old together - those are comforting words, but they are not the same thing as remorse. She might regret what she did, and she might want to move on with you, but that alone is not remorse - without the missing pieces, it's just regret mixed with damage control.
 
I don't think this topic was covered in the thread. What exactly is it you have to lose by divorcing this woman? You seem nervous and extremely timid, fearful of speaking, taking a deep breath and bracing for impact. So, I have to ask, what are the financial implications and are they strongly influencing you to whitewash what was done to you? Who controls the money, sorry to be so blunt.

In 2013 you complained about intimacy lacking in the marriage - what has it been like since, up to present day. Is there any enthusiasm, reasonable frequency? Does she flinch and recoil from your touch? Have you been tested or STDs at any point as a precaution. Be sure to tell her the results - it will make an impression. Can you enumerate 5 things that you consider 'closeness' because you are still not 'close' to her phone. Is there any joy whatsoever? . Reread Bobert, several times.

I just reread your post from 2013 - is she still yelling and screaming and berating you. Was the potential BPD suspicions from @Uptown every confirmed?
 
I honestly find it hard to believe she is over the OM. She had been in an illicit relationship that spanned decades and OP caught her saying "I love you so much honey" like a husband or long time partner. And she just dropped him like a hot rock the same day? I simply don't buy it.

@mcmike I you other post from 2023 you posted about a lack of sex and intimacy with your wife. How did that get resolved and are you sure her lack of interest in you wasn't because of interest in another man?
Just wanted to clarify, when her phone call came on mcmike’s car bluetooth 2 years ago, it was the guy who said “I love you so much honey,” not her.

She may still have an emotional attachment to the other guy, but if she’s willing to give up all contact, mcmike wants to give her another chance. It seems they have established some considerable intimacy over the past 2 years, according to mcmike. I would assume this includes a return of marital sex. What he really wants at this point, it seems, is honesty, not just displays of remorse. In order to be better assured of her honesty, I would, in his shoes, insist on having access to the phone provider account. No reason for her to get so upset about his request to access the phone account, if there’s nothing to hide or if she’s ready to come fully clean.
 
As I guessed, it's MUCH MORE than the 2 affairs - the items I extracted below are from 2013 and if still true, then OP has an acid bath of a marriage which will be causing ongoing damage to the children. Years of them yelling, screaming and fighting with his wife acting as a howling, venomous banshee. Meanwhile he has been 'patient' due to her abusive background. (Unclear if the abuse was sexual or the parents were just neglectful.) Patience can become an excuse to avoid doing the hard things which need to be done. Which happens all the time, me included, I'm not exempt.
  • OP's wife in therapy:….."The sessions were very tough for her, because as we discussed issues in our relationship that seemed to force her to acknowledge responsibility for her actions, she would get irate, defensive and shut down."
  • OP's wife sexually: ….."Our sex life has IMPROVED last summer to approx once per month (up from 3-6 times per year)."
  • OP's wife each day: "She is angry with me daily - she has incredibly high standards and expectations, to which she tells me I fail constantly. She screams and swears at me and calls me horrible, frequently profane names. She rarely apologizes to me, but if she does it is only after I've apologized first."
I see why he is afraid to talk to her - she will fly off the proverbial handle, using the technique of amped up rage to deliberately divert Mike from a proper conversation now and forever. Does she deal with the kids in the same way because this is not the kind of behavior which evaporates or is localized to one individual.

And he still needs to get tested for STDs because I doubt the AP has been exclusive with her.
 
OP's wife each day: "She is angry with me daily - she has incredibly high standards and expectations, to which she tells me I fail constantly. She screams and swears at me and calls me horrible, frequently profane names. She rarely apologizes to me, but if she does it is only after I've apologized first."
I agree that the affairs are not the only problem, if she is still abusive like described in this 2013 post. If all this is still going on, it’s a very unhealthy relationship.
 
Just wanted to clarify, when her phone call came on mcmike’s car bluetooth 2 years ago, it was the guy who said “I love you so much honey,” not her.

She may still have an emotional attachment to the other guy, but if she’s willing to give up all contact, mcmike wants to give her another chance. It seems they have established some considerable intimacy over the past 2 years, according to mcmike. I would assume this includes a return of marital sex. What he really wants at this point, it seems, is honesty, not just displays of remorse. In order to be better assured of her honesty, I would, in his shoes, insist on having access to the phone provider account. No reason for her to get so upset about his request to access the phone account, if there’s nothing to hide or if she’s ready to come fully clean.
Thank you for that. I missed that key point. I don't think it is a stretch to believe that she expressed similar feelings, but you are right, he heard it coming from the OM.
 
I agree that the affairs are not the only problem, if she is still abusive like described in this 2013 post. If all this is still going on, it’s a very unhealthy relationship.
That's why I asked what 'closeness' means to him, because OP might be defining 'closeness' as her toning down the yelling and eliminating some of the curse-out sessions. Similar to asking someone 'was the sex good for you' and the answer is 'it was great, it didn't hurt'.
 
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Just wanted to clarify, when her phone call came on mcmike’s car bluetooth 2 years ago, it was the guy who said “I love you so much honey,” not her.
Also to clarify, she wasn't able to respond at the time as her microphone was disabled as her phone was using the car speakers and microphones.
 
Read all this and just have to say that her feelings for this other guy have gone longer and stronger than for you. She may wish she felt like that about you and convince you all will be good etc etc but if you believe that you are fooling yourself.
He was t here for her when her dad died and now she has been there for him when his wife died. See where I am going with this? Non of this involves you.

And you shutting down all the talk about a burner phone and such because you both work from home and she has been with only you past two years? Really? Never a moment to go take a crap alone or run to store to pick up a few groceries? No shopping with friends? You have no friends or hobbies? Just the two of you together all the time 24/7? Sounds like hell.
 
It's very easy to believe something is true, or even create fictional truth yourself, if you really want it to be true. This is why cheaters can get away with so much for so long. We believe the lies because we want them to be true. You may be fooling yourself with some of your thinking about the current state of your marriage. One thing is for certain, her reaction to you revealing what you know will tell you the real truth of things. Don't miss it for what you want. Or do; some people actually prefer the blue pill.
 
I think I mentioned Janis Abrahms Spring's book After the Affair earlier. Reading your whole message again I am pretty sure Dr. Spring would say that the ball is in her court if she wants to stay together and setting the rules for how that has to be is up to you. I haven't read that book for many years, but as I remember it, having access to all call logs, calendars of events etc. is definitely required. Maybe the question now is, are you willing to do that and ready to cut her loose as manwithnoname advised, with no do-overs if she doesn't t stick to the agreement ?
 
The title of the thread “confronting wife over TWO affairs”. Geez man, you might confront over the first one, but after two……….exactly what is the point? Fool me once, shame on you…….. fool me thrice…… well…….

it seems really hard to let that black cloud go rain on someone else. After all, you think it’s your black cloud, right?
Let that black cloud go rain eisewhere bro. Aren’t you tired of it yet?
 
The title of the thread “confronting wife over TWO affairs”. Geez man, you might confront over the first one, but after two……….exactly what is the point? Fool me once, shame on you…….. fool me thrice…… well…….

it seems really hard to let that black cloud go rain on someone else. After all, you think it’s your black cloud, right?
Let that black cloud go rain eisewhere bro. Aren’t you tired of it yet?
1 affair was while with him, but the second was with the same AP but with her ex husband. BTW, op and his wife are together as a result of them having an affair. So really, this is at least her 3rd affair. Definitely not wife material. Not if you value fidelity anyway.
 
1 affair was while with him, but the second was with the same AP but with her ex husband. BTW, op and his wife are together as a result of them having an affair. So really, this is at least her 3rd affair. Definitely not wife material. Not if you value fidelity anyway.
Whats the old saying? Cheat with you...cheat on you!
 
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