Talk About Marriage banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 66 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am posting this (rather long) series of information because I want some advice and also opinions. First, I would like opinions on the likelihood of my wife having had sex with another man. Second, I would like some advice on how I can get her to admit this and if not, to agree to a polygraph test.

I will first detail the instances of infidelity to which she has confessed. These events all happened over the past 8 years, and are in chronological order from earliest to most recent

1.She claims to have met a man on an airplane and exchanged business cards. They then met for lunch during the workday. He gave her a passionate kiss (1-minutes or so) afterwards and then she never talked to or saw him again.

2.She was out at a bar at a corporate event and had been drinking. People were playing billiards and she met someone at the bar. She held hands with him that night but cannot remember if she kissed him or not.

3.She was at a corporate event at a hotel, with everyone drinking. She was 29 at the time and had been flirting with an older (~42 years old), much more senior man. He gave her a passionate kiss, but nothing else happened. We were living in London at the time, and I found pictures of her sitting with his arm around her at her “going away drinks”. She claims that all they ever did after that is have breakfast together shortly before we left London. After she confessed this to me, I called him and asked for his version of events. He denied everything, including kissing her.

4.She was in Las Vegas at a sales convention. Everyone had been drinking. A coworker walked her back to her hotel room, and they kissed each other at the door for about 2 minutes. He wanted to go in the room, but she abruptly called it off. About a month later, he walked her to her car at another corporate event, and she was giving him a ride back to his hotel. He put his hand on her leg, and she told him “no, we can't do this”. He stopped. After she confessed this to me, I called him. When I called him, he said “hold on, can I call you back in an hour or so?” She admits that he then called her. I called him back in an hour and asked him what had happened in Las Vegas with my wife. He very sheepishly said “well, I am not proud of how I acted when I used to drink as much as I did. I walked her to her room and I uh, I um, planted a kiss on her”. Background: his wife is a somewhat well-known former daytime soap opera star. He said “I know what you're going through, since I recently went through something very similar with my wife. I'm sorry”

5.I saw an email that someone had sent her saying “I had a great time at the bar in San Francisco the other night with you. I'm back in England and want to see you again.” She wrote to him “I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression, but I'm married with 4 kids” He wrote “That's OK, I know you were just having some fun. I will be back in March and could sure use those warm hands of yours for a bit more fondling” She claims not to have seen or written to him again. She doesn't remember any sort of “fondling”, only that she was very drunk.

6.She was arrested for a DUI in Pebble Beach about 18 months ago driving back to her hotel from a work event at 1:30 in the morning. The police report mentioned that she was driving and had a (married) male colleague in the passenger seat with her.

7.When I am able to view her text messages (rare occasions), I almost always find flirtatious text messages from multiple men, usually those she works with. I find that she is unable to draw healthy boundaries with her male colleagues. On Christmas day (and during our Xmas dinner), she kept getting text messages from various men with whom she works wishing her a merry Christmas. She cannot comprehend why I think this is unacceptable and that she is too familiar with them. I pointed out that sure, I wished my female coworkers merry Xmas, but that was the week prior, on work hours.

8.I was able to read an email she had written to herself trying to convince herself to leave me. The last cryptic sentence said “His sex is no better than anyone else's”

I think the evidence above strongly points to her having a problem with self-control when she drinks, as well as a fairly strong likelihood of her having had sex with one or more of these (or other) men. I feel a huge loss of intimacy with her and want her to either confess to all of it or take and pass a polygraph test. She refuses and says I need counseling to “get over all of this and put it behind us”. She is treating this as my problem and that the thought that she had sex with someone is “all in your (my) head”. She also will not agree to stop drinking at corporate events.

I have 4 kids and prefer to stay in the marriage (of 14 years) for their sake, but I need to know the whole truth. I am willing to go to counseling to work through this. We have tried counseling but it only leads to an hour-long session of her crying and ranting about all my faults, and when I bring up any of my concerns of her infidelity, the counselor only says “let's not point fingers, but instead let's focus on things you can do to improve your relationship with her”. This has happened with 2 different counselors now. They seem utterly unconcerned that she may have had sex before.

Questions: 1. What is the likelihood she has had sex? 2. How can I get to the truth?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,610 Posts
Um, of course she's having sex with other men.

BTW, get a different counselor! Find one that is concerned with airing the truth and getting her to admit to what has transpired. You can't move forward without the truth.

Personally, the lie detector is more beneficial as a threat. She'll sing if she knows for sure the marriage oends if she doesn't fess up with or without the lie detector test.

BTW II, ignore her tears, they are a manipulation device.

BTW III, she needs to change jobs. She trolls for sex on the job.


BTW IV, consider leaving her. She is destructive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
351 Posts
:iagree:

She has a problem, and I don't think she cares to do anything about it. She is not setting a good example of your kids. She should be spending every moment she can with you and your kids (sober!!!). She may be required to attend events where alcohol is being served, but I'm pretty sure she is not required to drink or kiss (maybe more) her co-workers.

She needs to fess up and make changes, or you need to LEAVE HER FOR THE KIDS SAKE!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
It's certain most of her indescretions are because of alcohol which lowers inhibitions.

Polygraphs are unreliable no matter the circumstance, you can fail them when telling the truth and pass them when you lie.

You have to trust your instinct mostly, you don't have concrete proof that she has had sex with anyone and until you do, it's unfair to make that judgement no matter how badly you want to or how much you believe. There are certainly the allusion of sex but without proof, then you're making a bad situation worse by making the accusation.

If she is unwilling to stop drinking then you have no options...this seems to be one constant in all of this. Either the drinking stops or you need to start making plans to separate...a separation may enlighten her to save her marriage or allow you the freedom and peace of mind you need to move on if it doesn't.

Blessed Be,
Preacher
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
I am going to have to say that it is time to pull the plug on this one.

She is a drinker. there are no two ways about it. She is also enjoying the "affairs". these are not "Emotional" affairs, but purely sexually motivated. it will not stop because she enjoys it too much.

I am an advocate for saving relationships at all costs, but this one seems like there is no fixing it. You can force her to change jobs, but I have to tell you that there will always be men around her that are willing to have "a little fun" whether they are colleagues or just plain 'ol men.

Changing employment will not take away the opportunity, and if you can't believe that she will never do it again, it's time to put it to bed. She is busy living the "single" life while you are staying home and taking care of the family. She is immature and will remain so until SHE feels like she needs to grow up... if she ever feels that way.

And yes, she has had sex... probably numerous times.

Sorry, but it looks like the credits have begun to roll on this show.

~Moog
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
589 Posts
I noticed in your list of chronological events, that every so often, whether it's years or months, she's coming to you and willingly confessing, "kissing" or "holding hands" or some other wrong, but somewhat inocuous little bad deed she did with another man while drinking.


It almost sounds as if she is doing this to get a rise out of you, and to get your attention, and like she maybe enjoys hurting you and making you jealous. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she is making it up, and hasn't really done these things!

I'm just saying, that it almost seems as though reporting it to you, is part of the pleasure she gets out of it, like she's wanting to keep you on your toes every so often. Even if she's not doing this consiously, it's strange..

I do agree with the others, that there is a likelyhood that she might have had sex with at least one of these guys. Not to say that she's done it with every man she's ever admitted to you that she fooled around with, but , she might very well be just telling you the tip of the iceberg.

I would tell her that either she acknowledges what she's done to put your heart and mind, and marriage in such a state, or she's outta there. Also, Switch counselors. Any therapist worth their salt, is not going to completely dismiss your concerns about her being unfaithful, especially when it's not like it's all in your imagination.

Fact is, even if she never had sex with any of these men, what she did, was STILL infidelity.... Kissing another man, holding hands, letting one walk you back to your hotel room, is not how a faithful spouse behaves. And it's a form of infidelity.

You have to get a better therapist. I would suggest even a minister or priest, if you're okay with that. Because they will tend to point out her behavior, and probably make her see how truly wrong, and destructive what she's done truly is.

I hope you can get this worked out. I think it's admirable that you want to fix this, for the sake of your kids. But remember, you also want them to have an example of a healthy, sound, faithful marriage. And eventually, they'll catch the hint that something is up, children are far more observant than we give them credit for. And although they deserve both their parents , you have to someday think of your happiness also. Find that balance, and tell her to fix her problems. If she can't, or won't, then I guess I would say goodbye.

Keep everyone updated. Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,539 Posts
She is obviously a serial cheater. She will never take a polygraph. You know exactly what she is doing. You have been her enabler. You need to show her the e-mail regarding "your sex is no better then anyone else" and then tell her that you are going to divorce her. Tell her that she needs to be free, that your marriage is dead. And that you can't and won't share her. In response she will try to get you to stay (she is a cake eater). Tell her the only way is to do the polygraph, which you know she will not, because her infidelity is so great, that you are sure she would rather divorce then to look at her drunken sexual addiction openly. Tell her that she needs to hit bottom and that you can't wait around for that. Tell her that you love her to much to watch her descend further into debasing herself and your marriage. Go see a lawyer right away. And file for divorce.

You sound like you are still in the fog. You may think "if I can only be patient with her, I can make her change". Change comes from with in. She has to want to change. One thing is. If you divorce, you will most likely get custody. She won't want it anyways. If she does share custody. It will crimp her sexcapades. There may be the slightest hope. But it would really have to be an incredible come to Jesus.

As I said. The only way to effect her at all is to file for divorce. She has to look at herself in the mirror and realize that she is nothing but a treacherous cheating skank. Do you think she will do that without some major shock? I doesn't sound like it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,278 Posts
I think the evidence above strongly points to her having a problem with self-control when she drinks, as well as a fairly strong likelihood of her having had sex with one or more of these (or other) men. I feel a huge loss of intimacy with her and want her to either confess to all of it or take and pass a polygraph test. She refuses and says I need counseling to “get over all of this and put it behind us”. She is treating this as my problem and that the thought that she had sex with someone is “all in your (my) head”. She also will not agree to stop drinking at corporate events.
:iagree:
She is way out of line when she drinks and to tell you to 'get over it' but still plans to drink at work events makes no sense at all.

Who knows, maybe she has not slept with any of them and this is how she justifies to herself that she has done nothing wrong. However, she seems to have little regard for how her drinking and kissing/groping/flirting with other men makes you feel as her husband.

She needs to understand that she is crossing the line...those actions go directly against her vows to love, honor and cherish you...and until she acknowledges that and makes changes (stop going out after work) you will continue to feel you are not #1 in her life...and you deserve to be as her husband.

Drinking is no excuse, especially in this case where she refuses to stop this behavior. I'm sure the DUI alone has impacted your family financially at the least. I don't think you need to 'get over it'. I think she needs to 'get over' partying like she's a single, wild, party girl. She's not. She's married with 4 kids.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
Let me add that I wouldn't touch her sexually with a frozen rope! You have NO idea what kind of nasties she is bringing home to you.

And why shouldn't she be doing this... After all, she comes home and tells you about all the guys she's bangin' (She claims that it's not bangin', but YOU are no fool!) and you let her in. Yeah, you get a little pissed about it, but then the reset button is pressed and it begins all over again.

From what I am reading here, it sounds like you are treating this in the same way that you would be upset if she ran out of gas and you had to go out in the snow in the middle of the night and take her a can of gas to get her home.

And of course it's YOUR fault... Didn't you know that ALL cheaters try to minimize their part in their affairs and attempt to turn it around and make it into their spouse's problem?

Further... Drinks+opposite sex+touching/kissing/feeling=Hobby Horse. No matter HOW you do the math, it doesn't stop at kissing once you add in drinking... EVER!

I would put the rollers under her in a New York minute. THAT, my friend, is EXACTLY how I would "get over it".

"Don't let the doorknob hitcha where the good lord splitcha baybee!"

~Moog
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
I agree with the others. She has a drinking problem, and that has got to be addressed. Even if she hasn't had sex, she has crossed the line by kissing other men.

I'd like to think there is always a chance for reconciliation, but that can never happen until she is willing to admit the entire truth, and take responsibility for what she has done, and be willing to do the hard work of change. And right now it doesn't look like that will happen.

I'm very sorry and wish you the best
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank you all for your helpful replies. I respond individually below:

michzz: I agree that I need a different counselor. I have decided to not have sex anymore, nor sleep in the same bed with her until this is all resolved. Laast night she came home at 10pm with alcohol on her breath again (taking customers out to dinner again). She came over to me on the couch trying to be all nice "let me rub your back". I told her "we need to see a counselor ASAP" She agreed to see one. However, I think she still thinks the purpose of seeing one is to convince me of the need to "get over it". I also agree tat her job is detrimental. She admitted to me about a week ago "I think we perhaps got married too young, and that each of us still had a lot of 'partying' we needed to get out of our system". She's obviously talking only about herself.

JDPreacher: The point of the polygraph as I see it is to get her to confess. She has made the point several times that they are unreliable. I told her that if she fails once, then she can take another one with a different tester, but that if she fails twice, then I will not believe her. To me, if I could see that my spouse was in psychological pain over a perceived infidelity, I would be RUSHING to get to the nearest polygraph or whatever other method I could use to show my innocence. It's sort of like when parents have a child that appears to be kidnapped. The innocent ones very quickly tell the police everything, and quickly submit to polygraphs. They know that the sooner they can convince the police that they themselves are innocent, the more quickly they police will focus on the real abductors and find their child. Guilty parents refuse the polygraph.

Moogvo: I agree that unless she faces this problem squarely and with a complete confession, that it will continue, since there will always be willing men. I also agree with your characterization about me getting pissed and then setting the reset button. Through this, she sees there are no repurcussions to her behavior. I also TOTALLY agree that Drinks+opposite sex+touching/kissing/feeling = intercourse. This isn't high school. I am especially suspicious about the Las Vegas event that I described above. There's NO WAY they stopped at kissing in that scenario. :rofl:

marina72: She doesn't very willingly admit these things. I often have had to drag them out of her. I believe she "admits to lesser crimes" while underestimating my ability to reason logically what really must have happened. I think that the truth of what she has done is potentially SO UGLY that in her mind she can't possibly admit it to me. I'm talking the possibility of her having had sex with 15-20 men or more over the past 14 years. We're going to see a new counselor together next week.

Initfortheduration: Your comments spoke to me the loudest, and I agree with them. Sadly, I agree that short of my filing for separation / divorce, that it is very unlikely that she will confess. That's a huge roll of the dice for me (as I don't want to lose my kids), but at least I know what needs to be done. The most dangerous times are when people do not want to know the truth. I want to know the truth and intend to find it.

One further question I have is how best do I get her to confess at the counselor? She will try very very hard to play the Greatest Hits album of all my faults, and distract from the true purpose of the counselling session which is to deal with her infidelity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
One other thing I forgot to mention is this: By looking at her email, I discovered that she had posted a profile (in detail and accurate, with her real name and photo, and listing her status as "divorced") on perfectmatch.com, and had done one on match.com. In neither case did she actually pay for the profile, so no one could actually contact her.

When I found this out and confronted her, she seemed unfazed. Her reply was "that was when I was mad at you and thought we were going to get divorced."

She thinks I'm overreacting at this, and her anger is focused more on how could I have looked at her email rather than that this was an inappropriate thing for her to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,539 Posts
One further question I have is how best do I get her to confess at the counselor? She will try very very hard to play the Greatest Hits album of all my faults, and distract from the true purpose of the counselling session which is to deal with her infidelity.
Call the counselor. Tell him that you will come up with a list of questions for her. Tell her that she has the first 15 minutes of the session, to layout all her issues with you. Then you get the next 15 minutes. EACH OF YOU CAN MAKE NO COMMENTS WHEN IT IS THE OTHERS TURN, BUT MUST ANSWER ALL QUESTIONS PUT FORTH. SHE MUST KNOW THAT THIS IS THE FINAL SESSION IF YOU GET NO ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTION (WITH PROOF)

Next, your children are at stake. They will model their marriages after yours. Your daughters will see how she treats you. They will become drinkers to hide the pain. And they will follow her example. They will cuckold their husbands like you have been. And your sons will follow your example.

You know what you must do. I would love to see you reconciled to your wife. But based upon her history. It would be a miracle. Sometimes people need to lose everything to make a change. You have got to be strong. She will throw you a bone. She will even swear on your kids lives that she will be faithful. And she will really want to . Until she gets that third martini in her and then the nearest man will get to put his member in her. This is harsh. But unless you act. She will destroy your family along with herself. Please stay strong. You know what you have to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thank you Initfortheduration.

One other piece of evidence I found was an instant message chat where she was a business trip to LA with a girlfriend of hers. She wrote something like "man, I really need to watch myself. I was in LA this past weekend with (her female coworker) and I was BAD, BAD, BAD."

I ask myself, what possible things could I have done that would justify using the term "BAD, BAD, BAD" to describe my actions. I don't like the answers I give myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
UPDATE: Today my wife (who is in Las Vegas for a 1-night business trip) emailed me and asked why I have been ignoring her.

I said to her: "We have a very major unresolved issue that I need transparency and closure on before I can be close to you again as a husband. It's at a crisis point, it's not going away and I can't sweep it under the rug any longer. I need to know the whole truth, and I am very confident that I only know the partial truth right now."

She replied: "I am just glad I am have something to get me to low points again bc you keep going back to this and pulling away. I guess people do say seperation is a long process....u think it gets better and there are up and down days but in the end you can't get past not believing me."

I then replied: "We'll discuss it in counseling, but you are right - I don't believe you. "

She then replied: "I am sorry to hear that and I can't be with someone who can't believe me and trust me without a polygraph over very consistent actions over the past few years to get over it and move forward."

Question: What the hell do I do now?????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,539 Posts
OK, she knows how important your marriage is to you. She is using the love you have against you. She is threatening that which you hold most dear. At this point I don't think another counseling session will do any good at all. She is in denial of what she is doing. You have given her the message over year and years, that you will not do anything when faced with the end of your marriage. So she doesn't believe you when you say "this is it". She merely whips the "I'm leaving threat" and you cave in. Or you call a counselor. It's time Cato.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks initfortheduration.

I have decided that my wife either A. confesses to what she has done, B. Takes a polygraph and passes, or C. we get separated and then divorced.

I am resolved. Too often I have let her charm me back or else I missed her and forgave her with no real contrition on her part.

That version of me is dead to the world. I have hardened my heart.

This weekend is going to be a rollercoaster. I am 100% sure that she will keep upping the ante in terms of being vicious and cruel until I break, for that is what has acheived results for her in the past. I mean sending out emails to all of our friends and both of our families announcing our pending divorce, anything to try to get me to give in. But she can save those theatrics. If she starts them I will just leave for the weekend.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,539 Posts
Tell her to write the e-mail, and you'll push the send button. She will bully and badger. She needs someone to watch the kids so she can have sex with other men. You need to file and have her served ASAP. Stick with the polygraph.
 
1 - 20 of 66 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top