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I take it you haven't heard of infantry soldiers?
The number of infantry soldiers who die in modern warfare is a tiny fraction of those who have historically died in conventional war, like on the order of 1/100. It is a ****ty job but it is far more safe today compared to WW2 when 300 thousand died in 4 years. There was 3 thousand dead in Iraq over 8 years. Better training, intel, recon and medical evac means soldiers are much more likely to come home. We bomb the **** out of a place then the infantry goes in to count dead bodies. The cost in terms of american lives is drastically different than it has been in the past.
 

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Discussion Starter #202
I would believe that if they did not still feel entitled to sex from the gender they claim to hate.

The bottom line is these guys are unhealthy whiners. Yep, I mean all of them.
Incels haven't taken the red pill.
If they had, they would be more realistic and would develop a plan to solve their problem.
They are just losers who are indeed whiners.
 

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No. He was just a straight up terrorist.

The men I mentioned in my posts up thread all left manifestos expounding on the Incel Movement or admitted that their actions were driven by their frustrations over not being able to find a girlfriend.
Like Elliot Rodger.
 

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Looking at the original post, I see that the number of celibate men and women more or less track together until 2007-2008. Free, easily accessible porn site started proliferating then. 2007 was when the first iPhone was released. Perhaps the easy availability of porn, with more opportunity due to access to it in more private locations in the house, warped the expectations of many of these incels? Isn't it mostly younger men participating on incel sites?

I dunno.
 

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Looking at the original post, I see that the number of celibate men and women more or less track together until 2007-2008. Free, easily accessible porn site started proliferating then. 2007 was when the first iPhone was released. Perhaps the easy availability of porn, with more opportunity due to access to it in more private locations in the house, warped the expectations of many of these incels? Isn't it mostly younger men participating on incel sites?

I dunno.
I think so. The older men who divorced an awful woman and therefore assume all women are awful go to TheRedPill....
 

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I would believe that if they did not still feel entitled to sex from the gender they claim to hate.

The bottom line is these guys are unhealthy whiners. Yep, I mean all of them.
Something coalesces here about what I have been thinking.

I said I don't read incel boards. The truth is, I don't read incel boards anymore. I saw way fewer incels who wanted to be desired than ones who thought things like that rape should not be illegal as it infringes on their right to take what they want. That the whole idea that women are people is nonsense. Their purpose IS to serve men. It is our nature and deep down we really want to be bapped on the head and dragged back to the cave. Etcetera... One might wonder why I don't read on those boards anymore!

There was a parallel made between those who are disenfranchised for socio-economic reasons and the incel. I think that's crap, personally. While I will fight for every person's right to have and voice their feelings, thoughts and desires without consequence of law that does not elevate every feeling or thought or desire to a meritorious one. Not all desires are moral or even healthy. And I would opine that feeling entitled to sex is immoral and very unhealthy. I would go so far as to see sex as somehow transcending the rest of the human experience and elevated in importance is just wrong.

Interestingly enough, my anecdotal evidence seems to support that people who think right get laid more. This board talks a lot about things that, in my view and experience, have very little to do with successful mating. We have an Uhtred of Bebbenburg on this board. And a Ragnar Ragnarson. Why are they the ones who are central to a really cool and fun story and make the women's panties wet? Why does no one even remember the name of the character who vocalizes indifference to a woman who is actually interested in him vs just taking her? Yet Beocca is actually hot in the series? Ok I guess many won't get the simile.

So I would not mind if every incel **** basically froze off over night. That would be nothing short of justice.
 

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MGTOW should be every third weekend of the month for married men. All the men should get away from the womenz and do whatever man stuff the want. It will be like fight club, except it may involve watching lots of football and drinking copiously without any high pitched nagging.
I guess this is tongue and cheek, but I don't feel this way...

I however don't want time away from my GF, fiancé really. If I wanted time away from her, I would not be with her. I like spending time with her, I want her in my bed every night and all that stuff...

Now, I guess I have guy time but I don't think of it that way. Example, me and the boys, because we are all male in the new band, have a great time at rehearsal. We knock back a few, and sometimes go out after, but I don't think about it as guys time, it is rehearsal time.

I don't hunt anymore, and have nothing against it, but it happens really early in the morning, and it is really cold, and frankly I would rather be making love to my GF than driving a 100 miles to a deer lease.

But if I did still hunt, it would be because I wanted to hunt and not because I wanted to be "away from women".

Same with going shooting, which I do like to do but don't have time for as much as I would like. If I am going to the range, GF would be super pissed if she did not go as well.

GF and I watch big sporting events together, so that is not an issue for me. Sometimes it is a couples party when that stuff is going on.

And, I like to take her shopping. Hope I don't have to turn in my man card, but I like it. She likes the clothes I pick out for her, evidently she likes that I have an eye for women's clothing.

Although, I personally wish for more cleavage and I do push the envelope on that part, but for the most part she goes with what I pick out for her. It seems to make her happy, plus I pick out clothes faster than she does and she likes that as well.

So for me, I am looking for ways for us to spend more time together, not less...
 

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I guess this is tongue and cheek, but I don't feel this way...

I however don't want time away from my GF, fiancé really. If I wanted time away from her, I would not be with her. I like spending time with her, I want her in my bed every night and all that stuff...

Now, I guess I have guy time but I don't think of it that way. Example, me and the boys, because we are all male in the new band, have a great time at rehearsal. We knock back a few, and sometimes go out after, but I don't think about it as guys time, it is rehearsal time.

I don't hunt anymore, and have nothing against it, but it happens really early in the morning, and it is really cold, and frankly I would rather be making love to my GF than driving a 100 miles to a deer lease.

But if I did still hunt, it would be because I wanted to hunt and not because I wanted to be "away from women".

Same with going shooting, which I do like to do but don't have time for as much as I would like. If I am going to the range, GF would be super pissed if she did not go as well.

GF and I watch big sporting events together, so that is not an issue for me. Sometimes it is a couples party when that stuff is going on.

And, I like to take her shopping. Hope I don't have to turn in my man card, but I like it. She likes the clothes I pick out for her, evidently she likes that I have an eye for women's clothing.

Although, I personally wish for more cleavage and I do push the envelope on that part, but for the most part she goes with what I pick out for her. It seems to make her happy, plus I pick out clothes faster than she does and she likes that as well.

So for me, I am looking for ways for us to spend more time together, not less...
There is a lot here that resonates with me. After 25 years, DH is still my favorite person to hang with. He seems to feel the same way as evidenced by his actions. When we do stuff apart, it seems to be more about the thing than needing/wanting to be apart. He has some friends with whom he is close. One is great people but she and I don't share much in common. The other I find so annoying I want to strangle her. Best if he hangs with them without me. I have activities that he HATES. No point in his going! But he does not have an interest in getting away from female (me). Nor do I want to get away from his maleness...
 

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Agreed.

That's why I've always said that men don't own mirrors. You always see these middle-aged or older guys who are bald or balding with white or grey hair (what's left of it, anyway), most with craggy wrinkled faces, they're out of shape and just generally unattractive as hell, and they're hitting on pretty, much younger women. LMAO!! I used to see it all the time when I'd go out with my girlfriends for a girl's night out, and I've had plenty of older, unattractive men hitting on me as well and sending drinks to me, etc. They act as though they're somehow entitled to have young beautiful women instead of dating in their OWN age-appropriate group. Unless these sad sacks are really cashed up (or manage to find a girl with serious daddy issues), they're not going to be leaving with the 25 year old smokin' hot blond no matter how deserving of her they think they are. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
I've heard the difference between the sexes on this matter described a follows:

Women are very particular fishermen, they only attempt to catch the best fish.

Men cast as big a net as possible and then choose the best of what's in the net.

That seems right to me.

So, just because an unattractive old guy hits on a young attractive woman, it doesn't mean that he expects to succeed.

And, I don't get the use of "entitlement" in these cases. "Wanting" to have sex with a hot young woman isn't the same a feeling that the world owes you sex with a hot young woman just because you exist and you're justified in complaining when it doesn't happen.
 

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I think the socialization of young boys in this society leaves a lot to be desired, and because of that they themselves appear less desirable.

Anyway, it is an interesting stat because if it means that more women are having sex in this age group than men, then do I conclude that more women are sleeping with less men? In other words, there are some men who are getting it in droves and some men who aren't getting anything, and more and more women are going after the same men? Hmmmm
That's the hypothesis
 

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Looking at the original post, I see that the number of celibate men and women more or less track together until 2007-2008. Free, easily accessible porn site started proliferating then. 2007 was when the first iPhone was released. Perhaps the easy availability of porn, with more opportunity due to access to it in more private locations in the house, warped the expectations of many of these incels? Isn't it mostly younger men participating on incel sites?

I dunno.
If porn has anything to do with it, it's not that their expectations were raised; it's that porn provided an easy alternative to actually meeting and, eventually, having sex with real women.
 

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If porn has anything to do with it, it's not that their expectations were raised; it's that porn provided an easy alternative to actually meeting and, eventually, having sex with real women.
I thought that one of the most common gripes is not just that the girls don't like them, but hot, beautiful girls don't like them.
 

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Something coalesces here about what I have been thinking.

I said I don't read incel boards. The truth is, I don't read incel boards anymore. I saw way fewer incels who wanted to be desired than ones who thought things like that rape should not be illegal as it infringes on their right to take what they want. That the whole idea that women are people is nonsense. Their purpose IS to serve men. It is our nature and deep down we really want to be bapped on the head and dragged back to the cave. Etcetera... One might wonder why I don't read on those boards anymore!
I find it hard to believe that anyone could be serious saying things like the bolded. I'd suspect they were just talking to hear the sound of their own voices. I don't have any sympathy for incels anyway, but if their serious, that's laughable.

I guess in a spot like this, feminists would be saying that the radicals saying crazy things don't represent feminism.

I'm guessing that the same sort of thing is happening here.
 

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I find it hard to believe that anyone could be serious saying things like the bolded.
Shrug. It's out there.

I'd suspect they were just talking to hear the sound of their own voices. I don't have any sympathy for incels anyway, but if their serious, that's laughable.
It would be laughable if it weren't a little frightening.

I guess in a spot like this, feminists would be saying that the radicals saying crazy things don't represent feminism.

I'm guessing that the same sort of thing is happening here.
Shrug.


ETA: Wiki comes up as first hit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel

"At least four mass murders, resulting in 45 deaths, have been committed in North America by men who have either self-identified as incels or who had mentioned incel-related names and writings in their private writings or Internet postings."

I don't have much opinion on Wiki as a source.

I could not find a mass murder committed in NA by people espousing feminism despite its much longer history. But then. These two movements must be quite equivalent.

I cannot find a link discussing more rational incels. I would love it if anyone finds such to link it here, please.
 
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