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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,
I've been with my husband for 4 years, we've been living together for 3, and married for 9 months. We're very opposite in many ways and have often clashed, but have stayed together throughout because we are so in love and never wanted to give up what we did have. The way that we have clash with each others fundamental personality is a whole issue on it's own.
I have always known that my husband, J, is much kinkier than me. He has been in a threesome relationship, explored different avenues and has been sexually active from a young age. I was religious and sheltered growing up, but curious as I got older. J is my first and only. Throughout our years together, I've always known he has these different fantasies, but he never pushed them on me. While I'm inexperienced, I've been very open to trying many different things including bondage, rough sex, anal, swallowing, role play, porn and more. I have enjoyed and desired some of those different things we've explored. He's okay with the couple that I don't, as long as I'm always willing to keep an open mind and do them on occasion for him (specifically anal - and I am open to it on occasion).
The aspect that has officially become an issue is the threesome he had in the past. It's with his best friends who are married, R and C (a male and female married couple). He was invited into their bedroom, and it expanded on their friendship and made it so much more intimate. Then he meets me. He ends things with R&C on an intimate level so that he is faithful to me, and because once we hit about 6 months into our relationship, I told him I didn't want him to have that relationship anymore. He/we have remained best friends with R&C on a platonic level. BLAH. Okay. So occasionally over the 3-4 years before we got married J would mention someday having a FOURsome with R&C. I always said I wasn't up for it, and it wasn't appealing, and he dropped it and move on.
We got married 9 months ago and all of a sudden it has become this HUGE dealbreaker issue. He says that he always thought I'd change to want this relationship too. I am very against it. R&C are much older than us (in their 40's and we're in our 20's), they are physically unattractive to me, and there is a lot of emotional history (good and bad) that came with my husband having a sexual relationship with them, and ending it. I just don't want to go there. I don't. I'm not willing to explore this sexual avenue because J wants it. He calls me stubborn and selfish, shallow (b/c they are unattractive) and that I won't do things just to make him happy. He says that when I got married I agreed to do whatever it takes to make him happy. I have said I would do A LOT of the kinky things he wants in a sexual relationship, including having threesomes or foursomes, just NOT WITH THEM! But they're the ones he wants it with.
We've talked about getting a divorce because we are just so sexually incompatible. We're incompatible in other ways too but we've always been able to compromise and be selfless and patient and work past it. Now we're at a standstill. Sometimes he threatens me and basically says, "if you don't have this relationship with them I'm done and will find someone who will", and other times he's all "no I love you and you are more than any relationship with them and I can live without it". It's exhausting. Now he's taken the stance that, in the meantime we'll be happy and proceed with life, but that he'll always have the hope that someday we'll have an open marriage policy when it comes to R&C. After months of him pressuring me and being aggressive about this issue, I feel like I'm DONE! I don't want him to just wait around "hoping" I change. What if I never do? I don't think I ever willl... I'm just much more vanilla than he is and I LIKE IT THAT WAY! It's been 4 years. It's not fair to him to be in a relationship that he can't get a crucial and integral part of his personality met, but it's not fair to me to have to agree to a sexual relationship that I have NEGATIVE (not just neutral) feelings about.
I don't want to get divorced. But I always need him to let go of this hope that someday we'll have a foursome with them. He said he's not willing to, but he is willing to not pressure me into it. That would be fine except for in the back of my mind I'll always know that I'm not sexually meeting what he wants. I've already gone through lots of feelings of sexual insecurity since I have so little experience and have said no in the past to some acts. I don't know what to do. He has put all the blame on me... like it's my decision to sleep with R&C or not. But I've decided. I'm not willing to go there. So now he just says that he won't divorce me, he'll just wait around til I change, and he says that he is 100% confident that someday I will. If/when I don't, it's just SCREAMING divorce in the future for when he realizes it's been X amount of years and I feel the same.
Another layer of fun - He told me a few weeks ago that at our 2 year mark of being together (so at the point we'd been planning on getting married and had been living together for a year) he cheated on me....AT R&C's house with another person!!!! R&C were there, had met me, knew we were living together, they all go out and get drunk and J has sex with a one-night stand with C's friend. He never told me. I married him without ever knowing he cheated on me. I've always said that I wouldn't put up with physical abuse or infidelity. But it's more complicated than infidelity because a. it was a one-night stand, b. it was 2-years ago, c. it wasn't an emotional affair. Like it'd be such an easier decision to leave him if it was recent, or repeated, or emotional.
I compile all of this stuff we have going on, and the fact that we're SO young, and that we have our whole lives ahead of us and no children that I'm just like... why WOULD we stay together? It would be so much easier to end it now. But I'm scared, and weak, and will always wonder "what-if". There's no clear direction either way and I obviously don't want to talk to my friends or family about it, so I'm juts looking for advice. With all these different elements, what would you do? Factoring in love, trust, sexual incompatibility, opposites, and the fact that we're madly in LOVE with each other, will love win out? Should we stay together because we have such a deep love for each other? On paper we're terrible.. there's such a long list of why we shouldn't be together. Is love enough to erase that list and make us work? Should we stay together?
 

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You were a religious woman?

Your hubby obviously is not!

You are open to exploring sexuality with him, in your marriage, which is perfectly fine.

He has had a 3 some before you got married and after you got married wants a 3 and 4 some?

He thought you would change more and go for the group sex after being married to him?!


My 2 cents. Marriage to me is special, sacred, respect God, both sets of parents. It's more than just a piece of paper, its spiritual, emotional, physical, financial, its everything and not a joke.

If your hubby wants a 4 some, he is purposely breaking his marriage vows to you, both sets of parents and God. He should of got that out of his system before he married you and not wanting even more after you got married.

You have to ask yourself, do you respect what marriage is truly about or not? If yes, and he still wants the 4 some, divorce him and let him rot!!! Find another man that does respect what marriage is all about and your needs. And he cheated on you, never told you until after you married him and he still wants a 4 some?!

This guy in my books is not worthy of you, marriage and is not a man or husband material. He is a pig!!!

You can and will do much better. There are many men out there who aren't like him at all.

He obviously won't stop this behavior for you, even after being married, right?

If you stay in this marriage, he will wear you down, have group sex, among other things, it will get more and more until your marriage is pretty much a sham........what would both sets of parents think of this? God, if you believe?


You have no kids, right? You're young, right?

Either you both get marriage counseling and he stops this behavior now, or you GET OUT NOW!!!!
 

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You don't want to hear this but I suggest that the two of you do D. Your husband isn't interested in being faithful, he wants to essentially have an open marriage or be swingers. He's bought into that lifestyle and you've already found out that he cheated in you once. There could be others you don't know about.

He's done a bait and switch on you. Think back to your vows, remember the staff about being faithful and forsaking others? Well he's now admitting that he never meant that part.

No doubt he's been fed a continuos stream of pro swinger crap from his friends who obviously are swingers.

Get out now and realize that guys like him have themselves as their number on priority, and no one else.

Think about it. He would prefer to D you than to be faithful. Does that sound like someone who values you more than he values himself getting off with another chick?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
**I'm the original poster**

But he says it's so much more than just sex. It's an intimacy between the four of us. He's been best friends with them for YEARS, and saw how much having a sexual relationship with them brought the three of them closer. Just like starting a sexual relationship with someone that you've been dating brings you closer, it did the same for them as friends. He wants that closeness and intimacy between the four of us. Unfortunately I'm just not willing to have a physical relationship with them in order to establish a close, intimate friendship. Am I crazy for considering a divorce over sex?! When the majority of our relationship is SO good?

His "new stance" (it changes often, because this is emotional for him too.. he's not just being a giant douche about it the entire time lol, he's hurt that I wont do this for him...) is that he'll be patient with me, stop putting pressure on me and he'll drop the issue, but he will forever wait for me to change my mind. He truly believes that someday I'll want that. I mean... I know that I grew up sheltered and he's the only person I've ever slept with, but really... I'm the irrational one for NOT wanting a swingers lifestyle? Is it normal to only want to be with one person for the rest of your life? I always thought it was until he's just switched everything around.. Now there are these three people who want to be with my physically and I'm just like... I signed up for a monogamous marriage.. not a foursome swinger relationship. I don't want him to "wait around for me to change"... I want him to give up on the idea of it EVER happening. He says he can't, that in the back of his mind he'll always want and wait for it to happen.
So if he takes the pressure off, and we stop having a tons of conversations about it... should I stay? Even if he's hoping for me to change, should I stay in a relationship that he won't accept my sexual personality exactly as is?
Should he stay in a relationship with me when his needs and wants aren't getting met? Keep in mind to me, my sexuality is maybe 10% of my personality. For him, it's like 50%... he's always been a sexual and kinky person from a young age, so he's been giving up a lot to meet my vanilla needs. Like, he has every right to leave ME because his needs aren't getting met either.. I just don't know how we can work through this issue.
P.S. he goes back and forth between agreeing to go to a marriage counselor or not - I've seen a counselor for a year or so for my anxiety - he says he's willing to go to couples counseling if it means that much to me, which is does, so I know he's willing to try... I just don't know that it will ever be enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Also, he does want to be faithful in that he doesn't want to have this relationship with R&C behind my back, nor does he want sex with anyone else. He genuinely is sorry for cheating on me before we were married. So it's not like he's in this party-boy mindset of sleep around. But it does add another layer of trust issues because of the infidelity, and my insecurity that if his sexual needs aren't being met by me, he'll find it elsewhere..
 

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I hate to say this but he sounds like someone who would eventually try to pimp you. I wouldn't want to tell someone whether or not to divorce except for adultery or physical abuse so maybe marriage counseling might help. Otherwise I see a lifetime of misery ahead for you. So sorry.
 

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I rarely advise counselling but if he's qilling to go to an MC with you what could it hurt to try a few sessions?

It seems he's immersed in this lifestyle and perhaps being led by this couple.

Maybe if a nuetral party were to reinforce your more mainstream perspective he'll realise that what he's asking of you is out of line
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Also, he does want to be faithful in that he doesn't want to have this relationship with R&C behind my back, nor does he want sex with anyone else. He genuinely is sorry for cheating on me before we were married. So it's not like he's in this party-boy mindset of sleep around. But it does add another layer of trust issues because of the infidelity, and my insecurity that if his sexual needs aren't being met by me, he'll find it elsewhere..
YC, re-read what I bolded above. You say he doesn't want to have sex with anyone else... if that were the case, he would NOT be asking for threesomes and foursomes. You said in your original post that the two have you have remained platonic friends with R&C even after he stopped having sex with them. Yet, he is wanting you to have sex with them now. Sure, he said he won't push that issue... NOW. But in the back of his mind, it will fester.

Look, if this is not something you want to do, then DON'T DO IT. And I don't mean just with R&C. I get the impression that the threesome thing is something you have said you'd do, only to please him. Listen, if it's not something you TRULY want to do, then don't. It will only make things worse in your relationship.

Question: if your husband wasn't so adamant about threesomes, etc. would you even entertain the idea? Does it compromise your PERSONAL beliefs, be it religious or moral? And I am not talking about everyone else's views on the morality of having sex with others while married. I am specifically asking how YOU, YC, feel about it. If it is something that compromises your beliefs, what you believe to be moral, then the answer is really that simple.... don't do it.

And others who HAVE done it, or are part of that lifestyle currently, will tell you the same thing. Don't do it if it isn't what YOU really want to do. The other parties involved will be able to tell...and it will make for a bad experience for everyone.

FTR, it isn't a bad thing to NOT want to "share" your spouse. I had two partners before my husband. He was a virgin. And we agree that neither of us will share the other with someone else. It's not a sheltered or naive approach to marriage. There's nothing wrong with trying new things with your spouse...and there's nothing wrong with refusing to share him/her.
 

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My thoughts, as someone who's in a "casually swinging" relationship... Both people need to accept and believe that the PRIMARY relationship is with the original couple. That relationship needs to be the focus. Anyone else joining in has to be by agreement to both people. For example, I'd never ask my SO to have sex with someone she found unattractive just because I thought his partner was hot. And vice versa. Your husband is not getting that. And it's not possible for us to tell if he's being honest about his thoughts that you'd want a relationship with this couple or not... It's possible you lead him to believe this might happen by not saying explicitly what you thought.

In any case, it's your right to chose not to go down this path, and I wouldn't blame you a bit. Counselling might be a solution, as it may provide backup for your position from an impartial third party. But I suspect if things don't go your husband's way, he will stop the counselling pretty quickly and go back to badgering you.

I would stick to your principles, and maintain your boundaries. If you do decide that it's not working out, keep in mind that its likely your husband will go get his fix from this other couple pretty quickly. So it that's a deal breaker for you, a divorce is likely a better idea than a separation.

As far as him cheating... I think you're just making excuses for him cheating to make it acceptable to you. But whatever lets you sleep at night.

C
 

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A marriage is between husband and wife, and not anyone else.

If he'd rather have a 3 and 4 - some, group sex, he is not ready for marriage, what it stands for and is purposely breaking his marriage vows.

Sounds like he has a lot of growing up to do.

I personally don't know any married couples and even with kids that are into breaking their marriage vows and group sex.

If you wanted a man, to yourself, proper marriage, this guy isn't for you. It's what he wants.

I would divorce him and find a real man and be done with it.
 

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He will not change. He will always want this from you and if he doesn't ..... YOU will be the one at fault regardless of your marriage vows.

I say cut your loses now. Allow him to find someone who will be in a relationship with him and experience these things. You can move on and find someone who truly loves and respects you for your wants and desires. Good luck and God Bless !
 
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