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Discussion Starter #1
I will try to punch through 11yrs of life quickly. Met my fiance through friends and we were both "just having fun", no real relationship. She got pregnant so I immediately offered to move her in my house to give her a safe eviroment and reduce costs. I somewhat resented the prenancy because I was 22 and she was 24 and I wanted to live life more.

She worked very hard for the relationship but I acted like a jack ass. We did not talk much and after 2yrs, she moved into her own house and we were "done". The minute that she moved, I lost it and had feelings that told me I loved her. After a couple months, I finally got to sit down and talk with her and I had a complete break down. I was finally able to explain some of my issues in life and that I apparently loved her and want to show her who I really am.

I changed a LOT and we had a relationship for years in separate houses. Things again got split when she "was tired of just hanging out and wanted more of life". I had not proposed and told her that I was sort of avoiding marriage. I think I have titlement issues or something. I was also wanting to afford a nice ring and the time is just never right.

We again got back together when I told her I too wanted more of life and wanted to be a good husband some day. About 3 yrs ago, I finally got her a ring and we were engaged. Then she accidently got pregnant again and we thought it was not the right time and almost aborted. We were actually at the clinic when my gears finally engaged and told her "we need to leave NOW and I will do whatever it takes to make this work". It was a powerful day and things went decent through pregnancy and birth.

We finally decided to move her back to my house so we could get a bigger home TOGETHER. We have since bought a piece of property to build on. So we have a 10yo, 2yo, dog, and us in a 2bd/1ba house. Cozy... I am again kind of putting off marriage for financial reasons. It is simply embarrassing to me to not be able to afford a nice ring that she deserves.

Through all of this, her father has died of cancer, our oldest has mild Autism, and it seems we kind of have waves of good and bad. I seriously think she has communication issues and every time we have a big sit down talk, I have to instigate it in which she will finally pour her heart out.

I know the marriage thing is on her mind and when we visited a local arboritum, I knew it was the right place. I asked her to set up a visit to talk with them. She was very happy. however, we found out that liquor would not be allowed and because we never even talked about our wedding, we had different ideas. She felt VERY hurt after that I was just trying to plan a party. Just the other day she finally learned that I was very prowd of her and actually just wanted more people to witness our prowd moment.

I noticed the other day she was not happy and heard her setting an appt with here shrink a few days back so I asked what the issue was. I finally got her to sit and talk and she said she is feeling puky about our relationship. I asked her why she has not put any effort into talking with me on ANYTHING and she said "right now I just do not love you enough to want to". Now THAT HURT.

I will be honest, one of the main reasons I did not want to engage or marry is because IMO, there is a disconnect with intamacy. She does not kiss me. rarely says she loves me, we have sex maybe 1x/mo, she is not playful anymore, and anything she wants to do involves the kids or what she wants to do. Even the day we got engaged, we did not have sex. That was an issue for me. That should have made her DAY since this was supposedly where all the friction was.

Now she tells me that she has not been "all in" because she did not think the engagement would ever really turn into marriage due to my commitment issues.

I am really getting mixed signals from her. Like she is fine doing stuff "as a family" but her and I, not so much. I will admit and told her that I shut myself off because i am sick of the lack of intimacy and if we have one on one time, I will guarantee you we will do what she wants which is just go out for dinner, a few drinks, come home, go to sleep. No kissing, no touching, no nothing. I am just burned out and have a lot more to offer. The major issue here is I am still very much in love with her and this is hurting bad.

I just do NOT understand her right now. She is not happy yet will not put anything into the relationship. I am still totally confused with the engagement and recent talk of marriage only to have this.

I admit that I have gained about 20lbs so I have a little love on my stomach but I am still very active and athletic. Is it possible that a woman would be turned off by this?

As well, a lot of our issues have revolved a bit around money. I work from home making stuff in my garage. I have a strong desire to be self employed but has been very difficult lately with the economy. I am paying the bills but not making enough to buy our house right now.

Can anyone give some ideas of how to crack this nut and see if this is repairable? I honestly do not know what the problem is yet but as I told her, I would NOT have put a ring on her finger if I did not mean it. I want it to work but to be honest, if the intimacy does not change, I will end up cheating and I don't really want to but just not fair to me to act like I am 70.
 

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Well you said yourself you resented the pregnancy at first. If you did not tell her ,trust me she sensed it. You have also told her before you didn't want to get married because you wanted to live life. There have been several ups and downs in ya'lls relationship and IMO your first step is not to blame her for saying she doesn't love you enough right now or that she is unhappy. It's a rocky road and you haven't helped in the past. Even if a man eventually changes his mind and decides to be the man his woman deserves , those feelings from the past or still there. They need to be worked through with sensitivity , comfort , communication , love , understanding and time
 
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Discussion Starter #3
I resented the pregnancy 11 yrs ago and a lot has changed since then that IMO would indicate I have changed. I am obviously very disappointed with myself but after this much time, I am not sure I can waste another 10 yrs hoping it gets better.
 

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I resented the pregnancy 11 yrs ago and a lot has changed since then that IMO would indicate I have changed. I am obviously very disappointed with myself but after this much time, I am not sure I can waste another 10 yrs hoping it gets better.
I didn't realize it had been 11yrs. since you had changed for the better. It is late and I must not have read it correctly. I suppose all you can do at this point it lay all your cards on the table and then choose your solution by her response.
 

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It sounds like she has checked out on you. She takes some things for granted, and wants the stability you represent, but you do not represent her idea of love any longer. I imagine your own internal conflict showed her again and again that she wasn't "good enough" for you. Now your words and actions might be saying something else, but she's likely to feel like your reasons aren't because you cannot live without HER, but instead is for another reason.

It might taking walking away yourself and letting her go through what you did all those years ago to realize whether she wants to marry you and get back that intimacy or not.
 

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Sorry man. I hate reading stories like this.

You know you f'ed up in multiple ways but you try to work through it with her and talk things out. That's the right way to do things. But as was said...she sounds done. If a woman with problems communicating can tell you flat out she doesn't love you enough to care to tell you things...or to have sex or to do anything with you without the kids, it's pretty much done in her mind and she's biding time.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
We have never went to counseling as a pair. She has went for a long time on her own and was on anti depressants for a while. She went through hard times after our first child with some chemical imbalances. She has not had meds in about 5 yrs now.

I offered to go to counseling with her because i really want to see what the issue is. I went once with her and I think the doc agreed with me on several issues. She just does not regard some things as important, like paying taxes, which she has not done for going on 4 yrs now. I told the doc I DO have a problem signing on for bankrupcy with her. She has no idea how much money she makes, spends, owes the gov't, etc. Doc told her to get her **** together and get an accountant. Never happened. I had my accountant do them last time wtih 3 yrs behind.

In my own right, I think someone could see that I have some very valid concerns here but I personally think there is something worth working on but I see no point in wasting my time if she cannot try to meet me in the middle.

Regarding my resistance to marriage, I really think I have been waiting for years to see the her that I want to marry. She told me years ago that she was holding back and I would get so much more when we are married. I think it is a smoke screen. When we got engaged, NOTHING changed at all and should have. I have a lot of financial worries as well which she does not relate to. I seem to be a person that makes "business like" decisions and because we are both self employed, I don't want one to drag the other down with them. My business is not insured or incorpoerated.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I thought I might update anyone interested. My fiance went to her doc today for an hour. So I simply asked her about it when she got home. I really don't know what to do right now so I am trying to talk to her.

She really did not say much other than she feels trapped and financially unstable with me. there is some serious drama regarding our property purchase because we both have money in it and she will need money if she moves.

She decided to go out with her friend for the evening. Not to be nosy but I did glance in her jewlery and did not see our engagement ring so I am hopeful she is wearing it.

I am curious, and I know it might be wishing, but if there is even a chance, should I just give her space right now or do what I can to fix our issues? If it is over, I am still not sure how I am supposed to get this done. There is talks of her getting an apt but she has no claimed income for that. I already threw the house and property up for sale to show her I was not going to trap her but I am not sure if she sees that as pushing her out.

I guess my heart is just broke in too many places to make sense right now. She told me not 2 months ago that we need each other and I would have to leave her this time. WTF happened? I have to wonder if she can flip flop like this, am I just asking for more pain here??

I am reeeally hoping she is just very hurt and needs to think. I want to make some serious changes like visit a counselor, get back with the church, and make an honest effort in every way.
 

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Truth? It sounds to me like marriage would be a disaster for you two.

You're incompatible on two of the five pillars of compatibility, and you haven't had reason to discuss the others. Your hesitation might've done you both a favor, and her emotional distance is returning that favor now.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I looked at that link and was honestly shocked. It makes me wonder how anyone could stay together.

Just curious, which of the two points did you find not compatible? I can see some issues with all of them but I am also thinking back to people that I know that have been happily married for life. They opposites rather than "compatible".

I am not trying to make excuses and I would like to learn more. I already told my fiance that if we are going to take any real shot at this, we need to seek professional help and a neutral opinion. I am well beyond ignoring it and we either need to get the truths on the table or let things slide.

I talked with her a bit this morning and I told her I was moving very aggressively to liquidate some assets to free her and show her that I did not want her to feel trapped. She said she was not in a hurry and did not flat out say we are done. She also admitted that she has not been able to sleep or eat right for weeks. I know when we went through this before, I lost 20 lbs and looked sick.

I appreciate the honestly on this forum and though some posts seem rather hostile towards me, I have only given a glimpse in which to judge and not the good parts of me.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It sounds like she has checked out on you. She takes some things for granted, and wants the stability you represent, but you do not represent her idea of love any longer. I imagine your own internal conflict showed her again and again that she wasn't "good enough" for you. Now your words and actions might be saying something else, but she's likely to feel like your reasons aren't because you cannot live without HER, but instead is for another reason.

It might taking walking away yourself and letting her go through what you did all those years ago to realize whether she wants to marry you and get back that intimacy or not.

I find this to be DEAD ON IMO. She has told me on multiple occasions that I seem almost ashamed of her and has mentioned certain instances where I have a picture of my boys without her. I honestly just did not think about how it could hurt her but you know, if I think of that in the reverse, I would feel hurt too.

I really think this marriage thing, that I thought and she said was OK, has really hurt us. I don't think I had as much issues with her as much as I do with society and gov't in general. As a man, I am literally scared to death of divorce. Regardless that people "should not be thinking that way" it is a reality that a majority of marriages end and I am most afraid of losing everything over it.

I very obviously have some internal issues I need to work and talk out.
 

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She sounds like a loose cannon to me. She needs to get her finances together, figure out how much she makes, control her spending (perhaps budget), and pay her taxes!

She just sounds out of control............or lazy. What does she do for a living?
 

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Also, if you're not making alot of money by making things in your garage, perhaps get out there and get a real job making real money. I can see why she sees no financial stability in you. And with 2 children, I'd be VERY scared!
 

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You two need to split - I see MAJOR incompatibility here.

SHE is emotionally frigid and too lazy to move forward in life (paralyzed with fear maybe? I dunno, I'm not a shrink.)

YOU are selfish and VERY money motivated (look at BOTH your threads and see how many times YOU mention MONEY/ASSETS/FINANCIAL things). Of course SOMEONE has to watch out for finances, but your seem unreasonable.

Unless I misread, you DON'T want to marry because DIVORCE is so prevalent.
You don't like DIVORCE because you will lose 'everything' (I'm reading that to mean FINANCIALLY).
 

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I think she was in love with you for a long time but has now built up a wall of resentment. You didn't "want" both children. She wasn't good enough for you "to put a ring on it" for years. Your financial worries take center stage.

She has lost attraction for you.

Your fears of a life long commitment to her are evident in your post so of course she feels it. It seems like only when you feel her pulling away that you want her.

I hope some counseling together can sort this all out for both of you.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I appreciate the replies and taking it all in stride right now. Yes, I certainly believe my resistance has causes some of this, but I also agree that SHE has caused much of it herself. She cannot make a decision!! She does not communicate, she does not work for our relationship much at all. She never asks to go to dinner, go out, tell me anything nice about myself, etc. I guess the hardness runs both ways because I start to resent her more.

I want to give an example just to see what the "optimistic" people might think. She originally visited an arboretum with our boys. When she got home, I could tell she was VERY excited about it. I too got excited because we like many of the same things. I visited there with her at a small concert and told her on the way home that we need to go talk to them and plan our wedding there. She was excited and we visited the next day.

When we sat down with the owner, I realized that we had never even talked about our wedding ideas. She wanted VERY simple (10 people), and I was so excited about the place, I could see a really fun evening dance with a band, etc. The Owner was not real excited about my ideas and recommended we have a reception elsewhere. I was most excited to have the many people that surround us, see us FINALLY get it done.

On the ride home, I could tell she was not happy and but would not talk to me. It was left this way. ONLY months later did we finally talk about it and she thought that I was just trying to plan a party and was not focused on what really mattered which was us getting married. I had to explain that in my melon, I only wanted to proclaim my devotion in front of more people that know us.

She has been festering more walls in her head for months over this!!!

I went to ONE counseling session with her as she asked. Recently, I asked her if I could come and have been asking to do that because her private sessions are not getting at the heart of this problem, which IMO, is communication. At this very moment, I am working my butt off trying to figure this out and she is completely hands off. I it getting hard to keep fighting the fight by myself.

We used to have the perfect sex life, used to enjoy being with each other, but as I told her, our talks never seem very deep and she just seems emotionally shut down most of the time. As we talked the other night, I brought up the fact that both her mom and dad have been married like 3-4 times and her dad died alone. My parents have been married 40 yrs. We were just raised differently.

I certainly understand and appreciate the opinion that we are not compatible but I also have to listen to my heart sometimes and look at the many happy couples that science said could not work. I want the chance to go at this with all the guns hot and nip her heels back to where we started. I told her that the person I met and lived with the first two years is the person I need. I know she is in there. I know we were only engaged but when I put her ring on her, I made a mental commitment to make it all work. I think she believes that marriage should just come easy with no complications and no effort. Everything I am reading says that is a recipe for disaster.

I just need to find a way to get her back at any level so I can work on that wall of hers because I love the person behind it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I thought I would update. I spent time over the last couple days making a list of things to discuss and my concerns. I was able to sit her down yesterday and talk for a few hours. We are both very civil and reasonable people so we can rationalize pretty easy.

Here is what I got from it:

1. She admitted that she has never let herself fully love anyone in her life without walls mostly because of how she was raised and some of the family drama she endured as a child. I told her I am willing to put all of me in this but we WILL need professional help to determine how to get her walls down so she can love back.

2. She is unable to put a value on anything I do, only crispy dollar bills. I am a professional of many trades and able to do a LOT. However, it seems that spending days or weeks fixing a house, roofing, repairing a car, helping her dying father, are not good enough. I need to do all that AND pay for everything. I think we have a LOT to work on here because she does not know what a budget is and resents me if I cannot just kick out 500 bucks at the drop of a hat. However, I will admit that though I do pay all the housing and utilities, I do not directly pay for our kids. I am really not sure how to rectify this yet.

3. She feels EXTREMELY overwhelmed right now with her VERY demanding self employed job, and our 2 kids. She just wants to run from all of it and hide. I think some of this revolves around her wanting me to pay more so she does not feel like she has to work, but she has not agreed to work any less which I told her I wanted. She has too much on her plate. I also feel that me working with her more in the evenings with the kids is needed. She just does not say a damn thing and I guess I sort of bail, just waiting for her requests that never come.


My remedies:

I explained to her firmly that I will NOT even bother if she is going to half ass love me. She has always told me she never wanted to be married or have kids mostly because she has never seen a positive model of that working in her life. I ripped her ass about wanting to escape anytime we need work, instead of talking and compromising which we do well.

I recommended us adding a simple to-do list for her and I where we can each list what is important to us at the moment whether that be sex, getting a car repaired, getting a TV hooked up, sitting down to dinner, etc. I have a million thoughts in my head and hard to always remember what she needs.

I ripped her for going to therapy by herself when "us" is where the problem is and "us" should be doing that together. I think that we both have some issues that need work and I know I would like to talk with someone that has been happily married for decades to help us see the light. I have no idea how to handle the financial aspects here just yet other than to realize that others do with MUCH less than we do. we have 4 friggin vehicles and not really hurting for anything but we are far from rich. I don't need to pinch the books for 50 bucks but I really think her lack of knowing where the money is going and how much she makes, causes me nightmares.
 
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