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Pay attention to what you are doing. There are men who stalk women, men who have hidden cameras in their shoes to film under women's skirts in stores, and men who have other mischievous intentions. Some women have bad experiences with encounters with men.

In my 56 years of living, I have encountered several unpleasant experiences that I'm wary of men getting too close to me physically. I've had a knife pulled on me by a man while in my college campus, demanding an explanation why I left him. I was quick with my tongue and ran like hell to the campus police station. This definitely shook me quite a bit. While a teenager, a man asked for directions, and pulled his fly to show me his penis. Today, I'm watchful of my surroundings.

It is best to avoid unpleasant interactions as you have experienced. Don't "tailgate anyone", especially women. Your physical closeness may be a trigger of danger for some.
 

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These are facts not opinion. So what you are saying is that if children are raised by a stay at home mom, the dad is not really all that involved. So really the children are raised by a woman.
What facts? What you wrote or what was at the or what? :scratchhead:

If children are raised by a single parent, they may also be partially raised by the father as well as the mother. Just because she is single, doesn't mean the father is gone completely.

In a similar manner, just because the father is home when he gets home at six o'clock and the children go to bed at eight, doesn't mean he is not involved.

Is that twisted enough for your liking? :)
 

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Someone I know was talking about how his boy wouldn't want to see Frozen.

I didn't really know anything about the movie at the time but I thought, "Why?" I just watched it and I would encourage my son to watch Frozen.

Why wouldn't a boy want to watch it?

I think in some people's opinion that is because the main characters are girls. Therefore it is a "girls" movie and men and boys should have nothing to do with it..

If he doesn't want to watch frozen or any other movie that is completely ok.
So if your son doesn't want to watch frozen its completely ok. But if someone else's son doesn't want to watch frozen then you question "why?" "Why wouldn't a boy want yo watch it?" You think that the other parent is is teaching his kid that he should have nothing to do with it because its girlie. Instead of being ok with the fact the the other child doesn't like princess movies.
 

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The thread is an interesting read. Getting a little wild towards the end. I have closely known a few men who were raised only by their mother. I've never known one of them to be violent to women. I have seen them do some things that men generally don't understand and are uncomfortable with. In general Men need to be more than a role model to boys and young men. They also need to be mentors.

I was raised with the never hit women or girls rule. I was quite confused by the it's o.k. to hit guys thing. In the end I wound up in a ticklish situation where a young woman of near my age (16 - 18) hit me frequently. I was unwilling to avoid her so I used my skill at absorbing punishment without losing control. (that skill is very rare (cautionary note).

Most men are defensive of those they perceive as needing defense. There is a theory that this is biological (herd behavior) as well as trained. Generally When I do something that might be "creepy" I'm being defensive. I also am getting better at avoiding looking creepy.

It is not easy, but it is just good manners to try to make those around you more comfortable. If it means taking a less direct route to the men's department that's what we do.

MN
You sort of made my point. Thank you.
 

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I like CarlaRose's theory so much more for this situation.

I'm fairly paranoid about being followed as well and like Elegirl, I've had bad experiences with being followed and I take precautions.

Fear like that can happen in a store sure, but the response seems way more like frustration at being followed by security than a fear response.
I agree with your feeling on this.

Thankfully, nothing physically untoward has happened to me - although I have been followed home. I made it in to the secure entrance and ensured it was closed and locked just as he got there and wanted to be let in. That was a bit scary.

There were a couple of guys being loud at the train station on the way home, going up to women and saying things. The main guy went up to a young girl sitting nearest me. She kept her eyes down at the floor the entire time as he got in her space, saying things to her. I looked over to see if she was okay. He saw this and made a beeline to me. Stood right in front of me, I was sitting down, so I stood and in response to something he said (I don't remember), I said something along the lines of, 'Oh, you're some kind of joker?' And what was strange to me was that I don't normally say things like that and the tone of my voice was not how I normally sound either. He stepped back away from me, saying 'Yeah, that's right baby, I'm a joker...' and walked away, left the platform.

The other day, hubs and I were walking at a crazy slow pace. A couple behind us stepped in line with us. I thought it was odd and checked my phone was still in my back pocket and glanced over my shoulder. That's where my mind went. They were just in their own world and then passed us.
 

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I too have had SEVERAL instances starting at the age of 4.

One minor one, but still struck fear in me was I went on a motorcycle ride in the mountains of Georgia with a date. We stopped under a tree to take a break from the road just outside of Helen, GA. This guy was 6'7"bodybuilder and I was all of 104 lbs at the time at 5'3" and I sat beside him, but he wasn't happy about it and with one arm lifted me off the ground EFFORTLESSLY and sat me in his lap. I felt like such a rag doll that the very first thought that went through my head was omg, this guy could really hurt me. I was scared.

The threat of being overpowered is very real and has been my reality more times than I like to think about.
 

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I don't know if women are conditioned to "believe" something or not. However, biology dictates women are usually smaller and do not have the muscle mass men do, hence are "weaker" (if that is your measurement).

This is different from having a victim mentality, though. A confident woman who knows how to take care of herself, either with self-defense classes, or the tazer she packs in her purse, and has nothing to "fear" from a man "following" her.
I read somewhere that the self defense classes give the women a false sense of security and putting them in situations they would have avoided previously. Confrontation should be the last step in the case of either genders. It is even more true if it is women.
 

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What facts? What you wrote or what was at the or what? :scratchhead:

If children are raised by a single parent, they may also be partially raised by the father as well as the mother. Just because she is single, doesn't mean the father is gone completely.

In a similar manner, just because the father is home when he gets home at six o'clock and the children go to bed at eight, doesn't mean he is not involved.

Is that twisted enough for your liking? :)

You provided statistics. Those are facts. You are providing evidence that can be proven. So we could do studies to determine if the stay at home moms are the sole emotional support for the children. We could do studies to determine what learning the father provides in the households with the stay at home moms. You could say statistics can be skewed and they do not always provide all of the information. But when you are dealing with statistics you are dealing with facts. An opinion is "that single mom is not a very good mother." A fact is exactly what you provided, "25 per cent of mothers in the United States are single mothers." That is something that can be proven or disproven. If it cannot be proven it is not a fact. But all of the questions that you are asking could be studied to determine some factual information. True, the father could still be involved with a single mother. And the father could not be very involved in a stay at home mom household because he gets home at 6. But the kids are in school most of the day too so what does that add. Is the school raising the kids? It gets really complicated. But it can still be proven or disproven if we want to take the time to do the research. So none of us are probably right because we do not have all the facts. :)
 

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So if your son doesn't want to watch frozen its completely ok. But if someone else's son doesn't want to watch frozen then you question "why?" "Why wouldn't a boy want yo watch it?" You think that the other parent is is teaching his kid that he should have nothing to do with it because its girlie. Instead of being ok with the fact the the other child doesn't like princess movies.
No. The conversation was between a wife and her husband. She said "let's take him to see Frozen" and he said "honey, he's a boy." As if that explained everything. Sorry, I guess I didn't provide all the information. So basically that is what I questioned. Why was he not ok with exposing his son to that movie just because he's a boy. I didn't say anything. It's their thing to work out. But it just made me think that things will be different for my son.

I have read that toddlers go through a period where they are separating themselves by gender and they themselves pooh, pooh anything that is not of their gender and he may go through that. I think I am going to try to expose him to new things and help him to learn to be open minded while at the same time attempting to teach him that it is ok to have boundries and be who he wants to be. We will see. This parenting thing is pretty complicated. :)
 

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I remember a friend posting proudly pictures of their sons- age around seven - posing with three Hooters waitresses, in those cute sexy shorts and boobs all around. What was that teaching those boys? And can you imagine the outcry about sexual abuse if these were seven years old girls posing with three cute guys in Lycra pants and baser chests?

The most that happened ( rather it was popular thing around college and students areas) to me was guys getting off on exposing themselves to random women in parks or rubbing iwith their hard on in crowded public transportatio. You just rush past the first one, move from the other one and keep going.
 

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I remember a friend posting proudly pictures of their sons- age around seven - posing with three Hooters waitresses, in those cute sexy shorts and boobs all around. What was that teaching those boys? And can you imagine the outcry about sexual abuse if these were seven years old girls posing with three cute guys in Lycra pants and baser chests?

The most that happened ( rather it was popular thing around college and students areas) to me was guys getting off on exposing themselves to random women in parks or rubbing iwith their hard on in crowded public transportatio. You just rush past the first one, move from the other one and keep going.
Ick.
 

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That is not ok either. Women should not be hitting their significant other either. When telling our sons they should not hit a woman we should be telling our daughters the same. It is important to teach children healthy boundries and respect for themselves and others. Abuse is never ok.
Pooh Bear, It is a good thing she wasn't my Significant other, but dating my best friend. I think she was using physical violence to flirt with me right under his nose. She is long gone from both of our lives.

You sort of made my point. Thank you.
2ntenuf, Just telling it like it was.

MN
 

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Well, it's pretty obvious women will be cautious around men who are much bigger and stronger than them. Some of them probably have been through rough situations and some are just paranoid.
 

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The OP does does naive. As a teenage lad, I saw it was better to cross the road if a woman was walking on the same side of the street. Now I am older, it is less of an issue.

Again, this is a European viewpoint, where the masculinity issue is less pronounced.
I don't understand what you wrote here.

Why did you feel that it was better to cross the street if a woman was walking on the same side of the street as you? Or were you making a joke?
 

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My older daughter spent a month each in Paris and Rome last summer and none of that happened. She became a pro in using mass transit - never used it on the States - and had no issues... My younger is headed to a college town in France next summer, no issues expected either. I have lots of female relatives that have traveled or lived in Italy and they also reported little trouble... Maybe things have changed?
Now I find that funny. I lived in Italy for years and traveled to France often.. yes to include Paris and Rome. And those sorts of things were very common. They were common in Germany as well.
 

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These are facts not opinion. So what you are saying is that if children are raised by a stay at home mom, the dad is not really all that involved. So really the children are raised by a woman.
That's what he's saying.
 

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Now I find that funny. I lived in Italy for years and traveled to France often.. yes to include Paris and Rome. And those sorts of things were very common. They were common in Germany as well.
It could be that she didn't tell her father about things like that, maybe. I wouldn't tell my father. I barely talk to my mother about things like that. It was years before I even told my mother I had been raped at 20.
 

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This topic has come up in a few threads here on TAM. In reply to women saying that things like being leered at, the cat calling, etc being unwelcome and even frightening at times, some (not all) of the men on TAM have said basically "too bad". Their take on it is that a woman has no right to not be harassed. And that men have the right to do it.

Not all men do these things. But I guess that's the attitude of those who do. It's their right.
Another thing that pops out on those threads, and that I've noticed in real life as well, is that it makes men REALLY uncomfortable when women talk about being afraid of men. What usually happens is that someone pulls out stats to show that Crime Rates Are Falling and It is Safer Now Than Ever!

And maybe that is true! I sure hope so! It doesn't change that women are simply physically weaker.

**********long stories***********************

Back when I was a college freshman in the early 90s, I heard a statistic. It was something like "1 in 3 women have been at risk of sexual assault" or something like that. Most of my guy friends didn't believe it- but I asked and found that at least among my female friends, pretty much all of us had had at least one scare. Two of my friends had been outright raped when they were in HS or younger. Most of us had not been raped but believed we were close.

I personally had two close calls before I was 20. The first, I was in a play when I was a junior in HS. Me and a guy, Joe, played husband and wife. We had a big scene in the 1st act, were the only two players in the 2nd act, and came in again at the end of the 3rd act to tie all the story lines together.

So we left the stage at the end of the 2nd act, and went downstairs below the stage to get dressed for the 3rd act. We had Boy and Girl dressing rooms, but no locks, they were basically just two adjourning classrooms with doors.

Everyone else was upstairs, either on stage or in the wings, for the 3rd act. We had about 15 minutes before we had to be onstage and no one else was downstairs with us. I was half-dressed getting into my 3rd Act costume when Joe came into the dressing room. I was in front of a mirror on the wall, and there was a long table a bench behind me (the room was usually an Art Class room), and he very easily cornered me. I was in shock- like, Hey! What are you DOING? And he just smiled and said something like "There's an audience full of people up there, keep it down" and moved very close, as if to push up against me.

LUCKILY! One of the other actors, a friend of mine, Tim, came running down the stairs and into the lounge/"Green Room" in front of the dressing room. He'd forgotten something, I have no idea what, but I called out frantically to him in as low a voice as I could but with him hearing it.

"Hey! TIM! Come here!"

"Rose?" He stuck his head into the room and saw us. "What are you guys doing? Knock it off, there's a play going on! Have you seen [whatever prop it was he needed]?" And he looked at Joe strangely.

I got dressed VERY fast, grabbed whatever jewelry I needed, and ran up the stairs and stayed on the wings, asking my friends to make sure my costume was OK.

So maybe Joe had no real ill intention, maybe he just wanted to have a look, who knows? I am glad I didn't get to find out. It sure looked and felt to me that he was planning on having a go of some sort and thought I'd keep it quiet because I wouldn't want to interrupt the play. As far as he knew I was a "Good Girl", honor student, certainly didn't date, etc and probably figured he could get away with it.

I was tight with Tim and he asked me what happened. I told him I didn't know- Joe just came in and cornered me, and I was really he came downstairs!

But it definitely startled me. Our entire school had less than 200 people so I knew Joe. He wasn't creepy, mean, leering, he'd never showed any interest in me, he wasn't unusual in anyway that I could tell prior to that incident. We'd also practiced that play every school day for two months- it never once occurred to me that I was alone with him downstairs while everyone else was upstairs. It probably only happened like that during our 4 or 5 performances. Maybe it had never happened before, I don't know. It made me realize that I had to open my eyes and pay more attention.

The other close call was much more defined. It was in my freshman apartment complex. I lived with two female roommates and three guys lived down the hall in their own apartment. They were freshman, too. We were all friends, they played bouncer at a party or two that we threw. We hung out regularly during the first few months of the school year.

I had gotten them each a small gift at Christmas, and rang them (I am so old!! No cell phones back then!) once I got back to the city after Christmas break to see if they were in. It was early evening and they were in. They invited me over.

I'd been over their place many times before, and went bounding in happily, "Merry Christmas! Here's a little something for you!" with my little gift bags. But something was off. I realized that they'd been drinking or smoking and they were looking at me differently. One of them asked if I'd broken up with my boyfriend while home for the holidays and was ready to start something up here, in school.

Then, another of them actually moved the couch in front of the door, blocking it. I knew I was in trouble.

Once again, another man saved the day. My other roommate had also just gotten back to the apartment with her boyfriend. The apartment guys didn't know that though.

So I brightly smiled and said something like "No, I am still with my boyfriend. You know, [Roommate] was just coming in as I was coming down- she has presents for you too. This would be WAY more fun with her here! Should I call her?"

I remember that they looked at each other and shrugged, and said, Sure! More the merrier.

So I called her in front of them, and used their own words "Come on down! The more the merrier!" I knew her guy was staying the night and that he would never leave her to come down on her own- they were stuck to each other like glue.

I asked for a beer, and one of them went to get it. It seemed like I had a little breathing room. She came down, knocked- they moved the couch. And in she came with her boyfriend. And just his presence was all it took. They opened the gifts, we all had 'Merry Christmas" and "what did you do over break" and "what classes are you taking this semester?" I left with roommate and her boyfriend, and never, ever went back there again. I told them about it once we were back in our place and we were all in shock.

Once again, I wasn't assaulted. But I am pretty [email protected] sure I was about to be. I had never before nor since had anyone put a couch across the door.

On my end, in both cases I knew the guys. Even looking back, I can't think of any signs to indicate that they were different, that they were bad guys. I would never have guessed that they would corner me. In my memory, two of the male roommates were eyeing me and the third was very clearly uncomfortable with what was going on. If my roommate and her boyfriend weren't available, I would have attempted to appeal to the uncomfortable one, to try to get him to let me out of there. Cops were never called, nothing was ever reported- what would I report? This is just one person's story, another nebulous statistic.

***************************************************

I think it's uncomfortable for guys to discuss this for a few reasons.

One is, the vast majority of men are good guys. They would not assault a woman. But, if 1 in 3 women are victims of attempted assault, that suggests that a whole lot of men are NOT good guys. So there is some cognitive juggling there.

Another is that it is really vague to say "attempted assault." I believe that both of my cases were attempted assault or maybe aborted assault because someone happened to be available to save the day. But I suspect many people would disagree. I wasn't harmed or even touched in either case. They could have all been messing with me and would have stopped or let me go if I'd just protested. I never even said "No!". So maybe my experiences shouldn't count.

Maybe a girl who has had too much to drink and wakes up the next day after a blackout, next to a naked guy, also considers that as an assault.

Or maybe a woman is at a bar and a really drunk guy is too flirtatious and gives her a disgusting drunken sloppy kiss- is that an assault?

I think at third reason is that guys also have their own fears and statistics. Women discuss being afraid and so many have us have been in scary situations vulnerable to men- yet probably near 100% of men have been in at least one fight and also have been physically hurt by another man. A drunk football player is going to be dangerous/capable of harm to both men AND women. Ray Rice is capable of knocking men as well as his wife. Since men have to be aware/alert of danger as well, and I think they are pretty much conditioned to be so, I think it can be difficult again to wrap their mind around why we women can go on and on about our own worries. They might not feel it is so different from what they themselves also live with.

I suspect this is behind the"Get Over It" message. It's just that the world is Dangerous and it's true for Men and Women. Sure, women should have the right to walk without catcalls...men should also be safe to walk at night without being mugged. I could be wrong, though.

Finally- I think there is a world of difference between now and my college time in the 1990s. I was watching the playoffs this weekend and saw the commercials "Domestic and Sexual Assault are hard for Everyone To Talk About"- and they are showing Men AND Women. Sure, the NFL is doing something to try to counteract the Ray Rice and other incidents- but it is still a good thing. I think there is MUCH more awareness now. May it continue!
 
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