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For the females only, I just read a comment by @Affaircare in another thread and thought I would ask this question of the other equally open ladies in the group. When you decided to have your (first) affair, what went through your mind the split second before you changed your mind from "no" to "yes"? I'm not asking about the problems that lead up to it or even the current environment. At some point, you had to say, "Yes, I made a promise to keep my marriage vows, but things have changed." Here is a partial list. Don't be limited by it.

  • This guys it too hot to pass up.
  • I'm not getting what I need at home.
  • It's my LD husband's fault
  • My marriage was a mistake.
  • He'll never know.
  • Everybody does it.
  • I just want to see what it's like.
  • He's showing me care and concern that my husband is not showing me.
  • I may have met my soul mate.
  • We've had sex before I was married, what will it hurt?
  • I'm going my husband a lesson he'll never forget.
 

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I'm a woman, but I don't think it matters whether you hear from men or women. One thing is for sure, when a person is engaging in an affair, they aren't thinking about their spouse. They are thinking only about themselves. I seriously doubt any of those things enter their minds and if they do, it's only for a brief moment, unless it's some sort of revenge.
 

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There are no a lot of women on here who have had affairs so I don't think you will get much of a response from women who have cheated here.

I find it interesting that your OP seems to assume that a lot, if not all, the women here have had affairs.

I agree with Cynthia, it does not really matter the gender of the person cheating. The cheater is thinking about self-interest.

I've read that or some women, affairs are basically 'exit' affairs. She wants to end her marriage but is frozen in inaction. Then she meets someone she's attracted to, starts the affair and gets the motivation to end the marriage;

For many woman, as for many men, affair are about getting strange and getting needs met.

Ready the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. He talks about the motivation for affairs. He also talks about recovery from them.
 

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I'm not a woman but I can say that after i discovered my first wife cheated on me i grew increasingly resentful. Then one day before a night on the town with some friends i met a woman. A few weeks later i said to myself "**** it she owes me ", i then proceeded to have my revenge affair with the woman i had met a few weeks earlier.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I find it interesting that your OP seems to assume that a lot, if not all, the women here have had affairs.
Whoa. I never said that.

I already know what men say to themselves before they do it. I've talked with a LOT of them about it. (I did not just say that all men are cheaters.) That kind of discussion with a woman in person may be considered inappropriate, so I thought I'd ask here.
 

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For the females only, I just read a comment by @Affaircare in another thread and thought I would ask this question of the other equally open ladies in the group. When you decided to have your (first) affair, what went through your mind the split second before you changed your mind from "no" to "yes"? I'm not asking about the problems that lead up to it or even the current environment. At some point, you had to say, "Yes, I made a promise to keep my marriage vows, but things have changed." Here is a partial list. Don't be limited by it.

  • This guys it too hot to pass up.
  • I'm not getting what I need at home.
  • It's my LD husband's fault
  • My marriage was a mistake.
  • He'll never know.
  • Everybody does it.
  • I just want to see what it's like.
  • He's showing me care and concern that my husband is not showing me.
  • I may have met my soul mate.
  • We've had sex before I was married, what will it hurt?
  • I'm going my husband a lesson he'll never forget.
I am a woman.

I had an affair.

I AM @Affaircare! LOL

And the funny thing is, not one of those thoughts that you mentioned even crossed my mind. Not one, not close.

For context let me give this background: my affair was twelve years ago with my Dear Hubby who has since passed away. We were not "newly" married but it wasn't after decades of marriage either. I was in my mid-40's and we had tried for a baby and miscarried at 20 weeks. I dealt with the grief by wanting to turn to each other--he dealt with it by withdrawing (to process it). Only trouble was that I felt abandoned just when I needed him. Then we found out at the doctor's that he was really able to father children and we'd never conceive successfully. At that point, I felt like my reason for being was just demolished--so much of my identity was being a mom, being desirable because I was fertile, etc. and I felt old, ugly, used up, worthless...and he was withdrawing to process it all. So clearly (I thought) I was just needless in his eyes.

My affair began as conversation in an online game. It always was only carried on online, but just so you know, in my mind infidelity is infidelity whether it's physical, emotional, financial...whatever. So no excuses--just stating facts. It wasn't in person, and it wasn't physical. You ask:
...what went through your mind the split second before you changed your mind from "no" to "yes"?
Here's the funny thing: it wasn't ONE split second going from "faithful" to "unfaithful"...it was a thousand SMALL split seconds. It was like death-by-papercut...one little papercut is irritating but hardly deadly, but several thousand papercuts would be agonizingly fatal! That's what my mind was like--I crossed small lines a thousand times. And each time I went just a little further...a little further...justifying it all along the way.

So the very first way I went ever -so-slightly off the rails was that I was playing an online game but did not include my Dear Hubby. By that, I just mean that I didn't mention him, I didn't say I was or was not married, and he didn't seem interested in hearing about the game, so I didn't talk to him about it. He wasn't included.

The next step was that he was excluded. By that I mean that he was not part of the playing, part of the strategy, part of the chatting, part of the friends I was developing...he was excluded and I didn't try to include him at all.

Next, one player noticed me. I did not have my guard up to protect myself and so this took me by surprise. Someone noticed my skills in the game, said I was a good player, enjoyed playing with me, and asked if we could play together. This obviously made me feel really good because I am a good player and I take it seriously--and someone noticed!

Next, the same person (who did eventually become the OM), started to talk about things in the game AND OUT OF THE GAME. Just chatting...friendly...interested. But again, I had no guard up so I talked back. At this point, to me, it felt like one interested human being to another, and in my own mind I am an interesting person, so no alarms were going off yet.

Next, the OM said that not only did he like my playing but he also liked ME. Me the person. This is probably the closest to that split-second moment you asked about, and this is about step 5 in the thousand papercuts or the thousand little crossing-the-line. At the time I thought, "Well at least someone likes me" and I figured we weren't in the same state, we didn't really know each other at all, it was all fantasy and talking, so what harm could it be?

From there, it was just a little further and a little further every day. An emoji. A small flirt. An obvious flirt. Flirting. Innuendo. Sexting.

This is why I have compassion for when people say "It just happened" or "We were just friends" because in some ways it feels like that when you are in the midst of it. Much like a snowball starting an avalanche, one small step off the "straight and narrow" grows and grows and all along you don't think "yes" or "no" so much as it's just a wee bit more and more. Suddenly what was just a little over the line is now a mile across the line!

I can remember distinctly thinking (of myself): "Wait, who is this? It's not me. I'm not a cheater. I'm a good, honest person! How did I get here?" So it's not like divorce, where a person kind of waits for the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back"--but rather it's much more like death by a thousand papercuts.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I hear what you're saying, and I appreciate your candor. I'm not sure I put an equivalency on emotional on physical affairs, but I realize a lot of people do. As I was writing it, my question was based on the moment at which he puts his penis in your vagina. That's the point of no return, at least for this question. Nevertheless, it's still interesting to hear your thoughts. I'm sure every decision takes a lot of thought and consideration. I've been tempted in the past, but I have never crossed the line or put myself into a no-win environment. No playing to dynamite. Unfortunately I have been cheated on my a long-time girlfriend, and I've always wondered why it was okay for her to cheat. I never cheated on her. She never could or would answer the question.
 

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I am a woman.

I had an affair.

I AM @Affaircare! LOL

And the funny thing is, not one of those thoughts that you mentioned even crossed my mind. Not one, not close.

For context let me give this background: my affair was twelve years ago with my Dear Hubby who has since passed away. We were not "newly" married but it wasn't after decades of marriage either. I was in my mid-40's and we had tried for a baby and miscarried at 20 weeks. I dealt with the grief by wanting to turn to each other--he dealt with it by withdrawing (to process it). Only trouble was that I felt abandoned just when I needed him. Then we found out at the doctor's that he was really able to father children and we'd never conceive successfully. At that point, I felt like my reason for being was just demolished--so much of my identity was being a mom, being desirable because I was fertile, etc. and I felt old, ugly, used up, worthless...and he was withdrawing to process it all. So clearly (I thought) I was just needless in his eyes.

My affair began as conversation in an online game. It always was only carried on online, but just so you know, in my mind infidelity is infidelity whether it's physical, emotional, financial...whatever. So no excuses--just stating facts. It wasn't in person, and it wasn't physical. You ask:


Here's the funny thing: it wasn't ONE split second going from "faithful" to "unfaithful"...it was a thousand SMALL split seconds. It was like death-by-papercut...one little papercut is irritating but hardly deadly, but several thousand papercuts would be agonizingly fatal! That's what my mind was like--I crossed small lines a thousand times. And each time I went just a little further...a little further...justifying it all along the way.

So the very first way I went ever -so-slightly off the rails was that I was playing an online game but did not include my Dear Hubby. By that, I just mean that I didn't mention him, I didn't say I was or was not married, and he didn't seem interested in hearing about the game, so I didn't talk to him about it. He wasn't included.

The next step was that he was excluded. By that I mean that he was not part of the playing, part of the strategy, part of the chatting, part of the friends I was developing...he was excluded and I didn't try to include him at all.

Next, one player noticed me. I did not have my guard up to protect myself and so this took me by surprise. Someone noticed my skills in the game, said I was a good player, enjoyed playing with me, and asked if we could play together. This obviously made me feel really good because I am a good player and I take it seriously--and someone noticed!

Next, the same person (who did eventually become the OM), started to talk about things in the game AND OUT OF THE GAME. Just chatting...friendly...interested. But again, I had no guard up so I talked back. At this point, to me, it felt like one interested human being to another, and in my own mind I am an interesting person, so no alarms were going off yet.

Next, the OM said that not only did he like my playing but he also liked ME. Me the person. This is probably the closest to that split-second moment you asked about, and this is about step 5 in the thousand papercuts or the thousand little crossing-the-line. At the time I thought, "Well at least someone likes me" and I figured we weren't in the same state, we didn't really know each other at all, it was all fantasy and talking, so what harm could it be?

From there, it was just a little further and a little further every day. An emoji. A small flirt. An obvious flirt. Flirting. Innuendo. Sexting.

This is why I have compassion for when people say "It just happened" or "We were just friends" because in some ways it feels like that when you are in the midst of it. Much like a snowball starting an avalanche, one small step off the "straight and narrow" grows and grows and all along you don't think "yes" or "no" so much as it's just a wee bit more and more. Suddenly what was just a little over the line is now a mile across the line!

I can remember distinctly thinking (of myself): "Wait, who is this? It's not me. I'm not a cheater. I'm a good, honest person! How did I get here?" So it's not like divorce, where a person kind of waits for the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back"--but rather it's much more like death by a thousand papercuts.
So by my interpretation of AC, I see through my eyes as what A.C. stated is the following. And even though said

"And the funny thing is, not one of those thoughts that you mentioned even crossed my mind
"

I'm not getting what I need at home.

My marriage was a mistake.
He'll never know.

I just want to see what it's like.

He's showing me care and concern that my husband is not showing me.

That said though not Intended, we're the result. Of pushing the edge. I am not interpreting A.C. words but my feelings as if I was witness to it as a man.

But, the "who is this" is the turning point of no return, and validation by one thousand papercuts is the marker so far as we see as what does it take to do that deed of no return.
 

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I'm not a woman but I can say that after i discovered my first wife cheated on me i grew increasingly resentful. Then one day before a night on the town with some friends i met a woman. A few weeks later i said to myself "**** it she owes me ", i then proceeded to have my revenge affair with the woman i had met a few weeks earlier.
So did it make things right or better for you? Seems like this method would only serve to multiply the adultery quotient by four!

Just go talk with my RSXW ~ she's quite good at that! Regarding her sordid history of trysts, well, let's just say that the mere use of multiplication signs greatly pale in comparison to the exponential functions that she made use of!
 

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Whoa. I never said that.

I already know what men say to themselves before they do it. I've talked with a LOT of them about it. (I did not just say that all men are cheaters.) That kind of discussion with a woman in person may be considered inappropriate, so I thought I'd ask here.
As a man, that was exactly the implication that was in your opening post to my mind as well as to @EleGirl.
 

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I'm not a woman but I can say that after i discovered my first wife cheated on me i grew increasingly resentful. Then one day before a night on the town with some friends i met a woman. A few weeks later i said to myself "**** it she owes me ", i then proceeded to have my revenge affair with the woman i had met a few weeks earlier.
So did it make things right for you?

Seems like this method would only serve to multiply the adultery quotient by four!

Just go talk with my RSXW ~ she's good at that! Regarding her sordid history of trysts, well, let's just say that multiplication signs greatly pale in comparison to the exponential functions that she made use of!
I am not ashamed to admit that I am a vengeful person, if i can't have a person's respect I will take their fear. My loyalty was mistaken for weakness, she did a stupid thing and paid for it. As for making things right? Yes. It brought balance back into my life along with an eventual prettier, sexier and younger model. I am not a cheater by nature but I am a fighter and will punch back.
 

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I hear what you're saying, and I appreciate your candor. I'm not sure I put an equivalency on emotional on physical affairs, but I realize a lot of people do. As I was writing it, my question was based on the moment at which he puts his penis in your vagina. That's the point of no return, at least for this question. Nevertheless, it's still interesting to hear your thoughts. I'm sure every decision takes a lot of thought and consideration. I've been tempted in the past, but I have never crossed the line or put myself into a no-win environment. No playing to dynamite. Unfortunately I have been cheated on my a long-time girlfriend, and I've always wondered why it was okay for her to cheat. I never cheated on her. She never could or would answer the question.
Doesn’t matter.

Read her post a few times. All of your answers are there.
 

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I am not ashamed to admit that I am a vengeful person, if i can't have a person's respect I will take their fear. My loyalty was mistaken for weakness, she did a stupid thing and paid for it. As for making things right? Yes. It brought balance back into my life along with an eventual prettier, sexier and younger model. I am not a cheater by nature but I am a fighter and will punch back.
People deal with pain in different ways. It's certainly not our place to judge your response. In some situations, I may act the same way. It's always a challenge to avoid cutting off my nose to spite my face. Things are not as clear when I'm emotionally involved. I'm glad yours worked out for the better.
 

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Doesn’t matter.

Read her post a few times. All of your answers are there.
True for one type of cheater, but not for someone who goes looking for it. There are lot of people like that as well.
 

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For the females only, I just read a comment by @Affaircare in another thread and thought I would ask this question of the other equally open ladies in the group. When you decided to have your (first) affair, what went through your mind the split second before you changed your mind from "no" to "yes"? I'm not asking about the problems that lead up to it or even the current environment. At some point, you had to say, "Yes, I made a promise to keep my marriage vows, but things have changed." Here is a partial list. Don't be limited by it.

  • This guys it too hot to pass up.
  • I'm not getting what I need at home.
  • It's my LD husband's fault
  • My marriage was a mistake.
  • He'll never know.
  • Everybody does it.
  • I just want to see what it's like.
  • He's showing me care and concern that my husband is not showing me.
  • I may have met my soul mate.
  • We've had sex before I was married, what will it hurt?
  • I'm going my husband a lesson he'll never forget.
I was going to comment that all of these sound very trite, but then I realized my own reasons sound mentally deranged so who am I to judge.

Since mine was an exit affair with a large splash of revenge I would say the last one was maybe the closest of all of your listed options. What lead up to that is somewhat important for context. He cheated and I wasn’t dealing with it well. So no, there was no thought of breaking marriage vows after that. I was incensed that he had the audacity to do that to me and I would make him pay for crossing me. I didn’t want to just have a fling, I wanted to replace him with a man that outwardly had everything my husband was insecure about in himself (height, hair, job, self confidence) and send his sad ass scurrying with his tail between his legs. I wanted him to hurt and I wanted to not hurt anymore.

Runner up to “**** him” was probably “I deserve to be adored”. Took me many years after the fact to see that I did not treat my first husband in a way that would make him want to adore me. Not to say I deserved to be cheated on, but I can now see how my behaviors made him feel like going from “no” to “yes” was his easiest and perhaps only option in his mind.

OP, reading your definition of point of no return as PIV - even though my affair was calculated I did have a point of extreme fear and knowing I was wrong. It wasn’t sex, it was when the OM (my now husband) leaned in to kiss me. I was shaking so badly, like major fight or flight mode. That kiss was the point of no return for me, not PIV. I wanted that kiss and I didn’t want it at the same time. Wanting it won. So that is your answer - she cheated because she wanted to more than she didn’t want to. It isn’t more complicated than that.
 

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Bluesclues;20091485. OP said:
I wanted that[/B] kiss and I didn’t want it at the same time. Wanting it won. So that is your answer - she cheated because she wanted to more than she didn’t want to. It isn’t more complicated than that.
I think this speaks through all clutter, even though it was plan or not is the basic upmost sound reason. Because they wanted it. I don't think it's anything more than that.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
OP, reading your definition of point of no return as PIV - even though my affair was calculated I did have a point of extreme fear and knowing I was wrong. It wasn’t sex, it was when the OM (my now husband) leaned in to kiss me. I was shaking so badly, like major fight or flight mode. That kiss was the point of no return for me, not PIV. I wanted that kiss and I didn’t want it at the same time. Wanting it won. So that is your answer - she cheated because she wanted to more than she didn’t want to. It isn’t more complicated than that.
Your answer is exactly the kind I hoped someone would post. You had a plan, you executed on it. My logical brain can understand that. Thanks. Out of curiosity, how long after the kiss did PIV follow?
 

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I think this speaks through all clutter, even though it was plan or not is the basic upmost sound reason. Because they wanted it. I don't think it's anything more than that.
I think relationships are more complicated than that. If they weren't, there'd be no need for psychiatrists, psychologists, marriage counselors, or TAM.
 

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OP, reading your definition of point of no return as PIV - even though my affair was calculated I did have a point of extreme fear and knowing I was wrong. It wasn’t sex, it was when the OM (my now husband) leaned in to kiss me. I was shaking so badly, like major fight or flight mode. That kiss was the point of no return for me, not PIV. I wanted that kiss and I didn’t want it at the same time. Wanting it won. So that is your answer - she cheated because she wanted to more than she didn’t want to. It isn’t more complicated than that.
Your answer is exactly the kind I hoped someone would post. You had a plan, you executed on it. My logical brain can understand that. Thanks. Out of curiosity, how long after the kiss did PIV follow?
Two months after the initial kiss.

Relationships are complicated but cheating really is as simple as “they wanted to”. No matter the rationale behind it, that is the core of it. People can trace their issues back to what made them want to - insecurities, trauma, mental illness, incompatibility, revenge - it all starts with “i wanted to”. Everything else is figuring out how to not choose destructive behavior in the future.

“Because they wanted to” is a very hard concept for most betrayed to grasp. You seem to be looking for a logical reason for cheating so you can fix it on your end. You can become a better partner and you can become a better you, but you can’t fix what makes someone else cheat. That is within them and has nothing to do with you.
 
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