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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi ~

It's Very Hurt and I would like your advice.

My 30 year old son got engaged in October with his girlfriend of 6 years. She is 26 years old.

In January of this year, he started a job in San Francisco. She was going to join in after she got her job transfer.

Before he left, she wanted to get engaged but he had some hesitation about her maturity level and her lack of financial responsibility.

He wanted to wait for her to move to San Fran to see how their relationship went in the "real world." Two young people working, saving money, budgeting, paying bills and sharing chores & errands.

She has a history of spending her paychecks on shopping sprees.

February and March they are exchanging E-mails of potential apartments and she is still waiting to hear about her "transfer."

She is a manager where she works in NJ but there was not a lateral transfer in CA but there was an "assistant" manager opening. She did not want to drop down a level although the pay would be the same.

April rolls along and she "did not get the transfer" and "she is angry because she did not get an engagement ring before he left."

He told her that he wanted to marry her but he just wanted to wait to see how things went in CA and he also told her that he was going to "start putting money away for a ring."

In May she calls him to say they "need a break" and he is blown away. He flips out, talks to his boss and he takes the next flight from SF to Newark.

She is cold and distant and "confused." They talk for a few hours and ignores him the rest of that weekend. Before flies back to SF, he writes a long love-letter to her.

For the next two weeks he is a mess. She does not call him. She did not acknowledge the letter. He is calling me 24/7 from CA. He is crying all day. He work suffers. He "loses it" at work and has to hide in the men's room. Can't eat. Anxious.

He boss says, "Go back home and work remotely from there. Get your life back on track."

He tells her that he is coming back to NJ. He is here a week and she does not contact him then all of a sudden she "wants to see him."

They begin to reconnect for a few months and he is euphoric.

He is so insanely happy he just wants to get engaged BUT he finds out by "looking through her phone while she was in the shower" that she was with "another guy" during the 5 weeks that he was back in CA having a meltdown. She says, "They didn't start a relationship until they broke up."

He is devastated about what he read and saw in their text messages.

Apparently this guy is 35 years old, has been engaged for 4 years and had a baby in February.

They met at a restaurant/bar where he has a reputation of hitting on women and drinking a lot.

She really liked him and their 5 weeks were quite sexual.

He ended up dumping her and she was hurt and upset.

The rest is typical TAM stuff: trickle truth.

Since their engagement I can sense my son is not happy. People who are 'madly in love and newly engaged" are suppose to look happy.

Bottom Line:
He cannot get over her "cheating."

He is angry that she denied she was with this guy or anyone until he told her he read their text messages.

He wonders what would have happened if the guy didn't dump her.

He is mad that she "did stuff with him that she would not do with him.'

He gets "possessive" and he can't get "the visions of them together out of his mind."

He is not sure of her "timeline" and did she really cheat?

He tells her that "she hurt him" and she reassures him up to a point.

He keeps asking himself and me if he was "Plan B" or if she "just settled on him."

Today's Blow Up:

He saw a Therapist last evening for 2.5 hours and he was advised to have a long talk with her. He needed to be totally honest with her and visa-versa. She should be willing to answer all his questions.

He called me this morning to tell me she said, "You are never going to get over this and I don't want to deal with it anymore."

My son said to me, 'I really don't think she cares about me or my feelings."

What would you advise him if he was your son?

Thank you so much ~

PS: Oh, she told him a few times that "they were on a break" and what happened was none of his business."

VH
 

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He was right in not getting engaged to her before he left. She is immature, self centered and a cheater by nature. He got lucky.

Go back to SF or stay in Newark for work but cut all contact with her.

He dodged the bullet. She does not love him.

Cut her out of his life forever. Do not talk to her again.
 

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If he were my son, VH, (and I have a 28-yo son), I would tell him that he has to go through the process of mourning the loss of what he thought was a life partner, but that he has dodged a bullet. He won't see that now, but he will understand that soon enough.

I would get him a copy of the 180 and encourage him to force himself to detach.

You and I and all of TAM know that he is well rid of her. It will take some time for him to feel it, too.

(Also, if he is not averse to reading here, I might get him to go through bff's thread.)
 

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If he was my son, I would advise him to end the relationship. This is not going to end well no matter what. So the sooner he end it the better.

If he will not end it, I'd advise him to call Dr. Harley at MarriageBuilders to get help ... joint counseling for them.

It takes 2 to 5 years for a betrayed spouse to heal from an affair. She has no concept of what she needs to do to help him heal. And she is right, he might never get over it.
 

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Hi ~

It's Very Hurt and I would like your advice.

My 30 year old son got engaged in October with his girlfriend of 6 years. She is 26 years old.

In January of this year, he started a job in San Francisco. She was going to join in after she got her job transfer.

Before he left, she wanted to get engaged but he had some hesitation about her maturity level and her lack of financial responsibility.

He wanted to wait for her to move to San Fran to see how their relationship went in the "real world." Two young people working, saving money, budgeting, paying bills and sharing chores & errands.

She has a history of spending her paychecks on shopping sprees.

February and March they are exchanging E-mails of potential apartments and she is still waiting to hear about her "transfer."

She is a manager where she works in NJ but there was not a lateral transfer in CA but there was an "assistant" manager opening. She did not want to drop down a level although the pay would be the same.

April rolls along and she "did not get the transfer" and "she is angry because she did not get an engagement ring before he left."

He told her that he wanted to marry her but he just wanted to wait to see how things went in CA and he also told her that he was going to "start putting money away for a ring."

In May she calls him to say they "need a break" and he is blown away. He flips out, talks to his boss and he takes the next flight from SF to Newark.

She is cold and distant and "confused." They talk for a few hours and ignores him the rest of that weekend. Before flies back to SF, he write a long love-letter to her.

For the next two weeks he is a mess. She does not call him. She did not acknowledge the letter. He is calling me 24/7 from CA. He is crying all day. He work suffers. He "loses it" at work and has to his on the men's room. Can't eat. Anxious.

He boss says, "Go back home and work remotely from there. Get your life back on track."

He tells her that he is coming back to NJ. He is here a week and she does not contact him then all of a sudden she "wants to see him."

They begin to reconnect for a few months and he is euphoric.

He is so insanely happy he just wants to get engaged BUT he finds out by "looking through her phone while she was in the shower" that she was "another guy" during the 5 weeks that he was back in CA having a meltdown. She says, "They didn't start a relationship until they broke up."

He is devastated about what he read and saw in their text messages.

Apparently this guy is 35 years old, has been engaged for 4 years and had a baby in February,

They met at a restaurant/bar where he has a reputation of hitting on women and drinking a lot.

He really liked him and their 5 weeks were quite sexual.

He ended up dumping her and she was hurt and upset.

The rest is typical TAM stuff: trickle truth.

Since their engagement I can sense my son is not happy. People who are 'madly in love and newly engaged" are suppose to look happy.

Bottom Line:
He cannot get over her "cheating."

And rightfully so. This was a prercursor to his future with her.

He is angry that she denied she was with this guy or anyone until he told her he read their text messages.

He is not angry enough if he is still engaged to her. She is a spoiled brat and anytime she does not get her way this will happen. Is he prepared for that?

He wonders what would have happened if the guy didn't dump her.

She would still be ignoring him until he did dump her or she got bored with him. She is far to immature to be married.

He is mad that she "did stuff with him that she would not do with him.'

She gave what she wanted to give. If she did not do the things with your son she did not want to or felt she did not need to. He was already "hooked".

He gets "possessive" and he can't get "the visions of them together out of his mind."

And this is how he wants to start an engagement???

He is not sure of her "timeline" and did she really cheat?

The timeline is irrevalent to her. If she wants it she will have it and a ring will not stop her and neither, I fear, will a child.

He tells her that "she hurt him" and she reassures him up to a point.

Hurting him was not a concern lest she would not have done it.

He keeps asking himself and me if he was "Plan B" or if she "just settled on him."

Absolutely, positively, unequivocally, assuredly and without doubt he IS plan B.

Today's Blow Up:

He saw a Therapist last evening for 2.5 hours and he was advised to have a long talk with her. He need to be totally honest with her and visa-versa. She should be willing to answer all his questions.

He called me this morning to tell me she said, "You are never going to get over this and I don't want to deal with it anymore."

My son said to me, 'I really don't think she cares about me or my feelings."

Astute observation and she likely never will to the degree he needs from a wife.

What would you advise him if he was your son?

Thank you so much ~

VH
OP,
If he was my son I would strongly advise him to let her go. She is nowhere near mature enough to be married. His life will be more of this if he marries her. She will also be horribly irresponsible with finances as she is with emotional commitment. She is a child in a 26 year old body. Do not let him marry her!

Perhaps, if she would agree to a protracted engagement, to allow her time to mature, then it could be considered but that will not happen because she will storm off to someone/anyone else.

Also, tell him whatever he does not to impregnate her or his life will be extremely difficult.

He was given a rare glimpse into his future with her. Tell him to heed its warning.
 

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Maybe my line is a little blurred, but if they really were on a break I don't consider that cheating. But not knowing the absolute time line, she possibly could have still been in the relationship when she started this relationship with the other man. That part isn't really clear to me.

BUT, knowing that she said it's none of his business does bother me. If you're going to be with someone, they deserve to know the sordid details if they want to know.

All in all, she sounds like a spoiled, immature brat who is always going to get her way. I would advise my son to try his best to forget about her and move on. Easier said than done, obviously. Maybe just remind him of all the great things that he has to offer and let him know there are many women out there that would appreciate those things and appreciate HIM and that his bride is out there somewhere waiting to be found.
 

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OP, your son dodged a major heartbreak. She is a serial cheater in the making or is already a serial cheater. Your son's instinct is correct. She is not immature, just simply an entitled princess and a cheater. I married at 22 years of age and is still in my marriage.

He needs to fix his mindset and return to San Francisco. Have him focus on his job. He will be in a new environment and won't have triggers to get him upset.

Have him read Hurt Dude's journey. He's in a similar situation, but not three weeks to the altar and lost $30,000 on a honeymoon plan. He will meet other women who will value and respect him. He is still young and can reinvent himself without baggage.
 

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Sadly familiar with HurtDude's thread. He needs to be totally done with her. If she wouldn't have gotten dumped, she'd still be two timing him and if he hadn't checked her phone, he would have been clueless.

There is no coming back from someone who cheats the first time there is an obstacle in the road and they're not even married?

He needs to go back to California and she can stay in New Jersey, that is perfect, because they will never run into each other.

What is with these people????
 

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She started cheating in May when she told him she "needed a break." Probably even in April, or maybe before.

I agree with your son that she doesn't care about his feelings. He shouldn't marry someone who doesn't care about his feelings.
 

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Your son's ex sounds like a soulmate for your soon to be ex. What does he know of the backstory of his parents marriage? I shared the thought with a sib that sometimes the hardest and most important thing a parent can do is share their pain, failures, and disappointments in life.

I have no doubt what your ex would say: pretend to reconcile use her and dump her, that will teach her.

Advise him it will be his reaction to these events, not her actions, that will define his chacter.

He might find Hurt dude's thread to be of help http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/299938-found-out-fiancee-screwing-my-best-friend.html but that would expose your pain and doubts to him. Can the both of you handle that ?
 

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If this were my son I would sit him down and have a long talk. I would talk to him about how he felt reading those texts, what he thought of her lies. If this were on break why lie about seeing someone? So obviously they weren't on break but the REASON they had a break. How does he feel about being second best? How does he feel that his trust will never be the same? The most important question, why and what caused him to wait until living together to get engaged?

I presume that his gut may have poked him a few times to wait. I would explore that reasoning a little more. After the talk I would ask him if this is how he wanted his life to be like. Always wondering, distrust, policing, investigating, or would he like some new woman who has what he is looking for. My final comment would be that she is not marriage material, and I question if she is even enough material to be brought home to meet mom.
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She was desperate to get engaged, yet very quickly fell into a highly sexual relationship with another man? That doesn't sound consistent with good wife material. Your son had some gut feelings that she wasn't ready for marriage. His gut was right, and she proved herself not ready for marriage.

I would tell him his gut was right about her not being mature enough yet for marriage. I would also tell him to cut all ties to her so that he can mourn the loss of the relationship and move on with his life. Also, yes she had some very good qualities and they had fun times together, so he doesn't have to hate her now. It is ok to still have feelings for her, yet at the same time know that marriage will not work for them.

I would also advise him that his feelings about her relationship with the other man are totally ok. Regardless of how people might define things as they were broken up or not, or that she had "the right" to see other men, he has the full right to his feelings and beliefs about the situation. He has every right to feel hurt that she had another relationship going on, he has the right to feel hurt that she did things sexually with the other man, etc.

I would suggest that your son's response is quite normal and rational.

She doesn't have to be labelled as evil or anything else for what she did. She did what she did, and it has changed everything. Now your son can't think of her or their relationship the way he used to. Your son should trust his gut now, just like he did before, and be rid of her.
 

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Can you clarify exactly what was said when she said "she needed a break"? In his shoes I would take to mean she needed time to meditate about her life and what our lives together would be like. It would not mean I have this cool posm on my radar and since you are not around 24/7 I going to comparison shop.

Perhaps what his biggest problem is not sexual acts but a lie of omission. In a marriage this type of lie foreshadows disaster. Deal with this first then the sexual acts.
 
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