[windmill]

Hello all! This will be a bit of a story and I appreciate your input.

Three years ago my wife and I were married. We have had 3 children together prior to us getting married.

After child #3 my wife became very withdrawn from me sexually and gave her reasoning as, she did not feel attractive because her body had changed. My wife is and has always been beautiful (as many other men have mentioned). The idea of breast implants was brought up and I supported her if that was what she wanted. I just wanted my love life back and did not care one way or the other if she got implants.

She did, she felt great, we still never had a love life.

She then fell ill, had many medical problems and a hysterectomy (in her 30's). Sex was a no go for medical reasons and I stood by her side and supported her and cared for her.

Now well after she is healed and capable of sex, still nothing.

I have been aggressively swatted away upon any romantic gesture or caress. My wife will not kiss me with any passion and our kisses are little more than a peck.

About 9 months ago I found her sexting another man (a mutual friend), after that I found her emailing an ex boyfriend going on about how she pictures herself with him.

I grew very angry and suspicious of her. That piled on top of my frustration of not being able to make love or even kiss the woman who I do love so much for years put me right on the edge.

Then while walking past her desk I see a message on her screen from a third guy saying something along the lines of "Thanks for the naked pictures".

This is when reason went out the window. (but I was about to make a big mistake)

NOT PROUD OF THE FOLLOWING: I found the guys name, created an email in his wife's name and sent a message to my wife from that account telling her to find her own husband to send naked pictures to. My plan was to scare her into thinking she was caught and to scare her back to me.

Here is the kicker, she did send naked pictures, but not of her, she sent pictures of someone else.

With the fake email account I scared her into thinking "the other woman" sent pictures of her to me and I was going to be leaving.

Upon learning the pictures were of someone else I came clean and told her what I had done and why I had done it, and accepted responsibility for my actions.

She then let loose on social networks going on about what a had done to all the people she talked to that day. True I was an arse, yet I never felt the need (or seen any benefit) to telling the world what she had done to me over the past year or so.

When I learned she was broadcasting what I had done to the world (but naturally not mentioned what she has done in our personal marriage) I lost it.

Not proud, but after many years of neglect and being ignored despite my caring for her and providing for her every need and want, I snapped and broke the table.

Now I am informed that I am violent and we are both on the verge of walking away.

She has never apologized sincerely for what she has done, rather she yells at me in anger saying "it was just once" or "we were just kidding". I get no sense that any of this is her fault, just mine for loosing my temper. I do not deny I lost my temper and accept responsibility for what I did.

Is there hope to fix this?

 

[Machiavelli]

Boob job coupled with simultaneous loss of interest in sex (at least with you) is a bad sign. How long have you been together total and approximate age? How old is the youngest child?

I know all about the sexual results of age 35 hysterectomies, unfortunately. Was it total or did your wife retain her ovaries?

You've been way too tolerate of this situation, due to the usual male "betaization" that is part of marriage, and that causes your wife to be increasingly repelled by you the longer it goes on. A woman's limbic brain is in the driver's seat when it comes to who she's attracted to, not the cortex. Although you are behaving in ways that should appeal to your wife sexually if the cortex were involved (flowers and romance) the limbic was a wild ride on the back of a harley followed by a hard pounding. If you don't provide that for an extended period, the woman turns off to you. She doesn't know why and it pisses her off, because she knows you're doing what society says is "right" for a husband. She then decides you're not really her soul mate and starts looking to replace you, unconsciously at first, and then deliberately. After all, if you're not her soul mate, you're an imposter. You get demonized pretty quickly.

You can quite possibly get her back, but you need to flush the stuff you think you know about women (rainbows and unicorns) and learn about the real facts of life about what women are attracted to. Women say they want one kind of guy, but can't resist going back to the bad boys. You've probably been breaking The Sixteen Commandments for years. Once you understand that there is a huge gap between the romantic ideals found in the female cortex and the raw drive to reproduce with the highest sex rank male available from the limbic (which actually drives her body to prepare for sex) you've taken a big step forward in starting the process of increasing your appeal.

Your reading assignment for this weekend:
#1) download and read Married Man Sex Life Primer. The link is to the author's blog, which is itself a great source of info. As Chapparal, another poster here, always says "it's not a sex manual". It's basically a guide that explains how you got in the fix you're in now and how to build attraction so you can get out of it.

 

[windmill]

Thank you for the reply Machiavelli.

Children are 4,5, and 6, so yes things are very busy for her and I understand that (and fully support in household duties) knowing that she obviously does more around the house than I.

The hysterectomy was total and I understand it will have a hormonal effect. I am also not so blind to know that this lack of a lovelife started before she was ill and that she is capable of "getting in the mood" because we did make love about 10 months ago while on vacation.

Thank you for the tip on the book, I will read it.

I am willing to put in a full effort to fix this and not just pretend it will fix itself. So long as she puts in a heart filled full effort at the same time.

 

[Machiavelli]

Is she on hormone replacement therapy? If not, she will still have some small amount of testosterone (usually) from her adrenal glands, although plenty of post-hysterectomy women have zero. Test is the desire hormone.

When she gets attention from other guys, it's causing her brain to release dopamine, norpinephrin, serotonin, adrenaline, etc. Physical contact releases enough of this stuff to send her on a crack-like high. When you shut down her sexting, you're getting between her and her dopamine. She resents that, which is why she's attacking you on FB. You're trying to take away her sexy drug. You need to build attraction fast to counteract this and direct the focus on you. Counterintuitively, you standing up to her on this will increase her attraction to you.

What's your physical condition? Women respond subconsciously to a chest:waist ratio of ≥1.4:1 with the waist measured right under the rib cage. You also need a flat stomach. Visible abs are not absolutely necessary, but they are a huge, huge attraction trigger.

You need to monitor your wife's actions. Keylog her computer and bug her cell phone. Is she a SAHM?

 

[KathyBatesel]

"I don't feel sexy" followed by 2 more kids? I don't have a lot of time right now, but I'll think about your post and reply more fully later, but it might help you to find out what you can do better as a husband/lover, too.

 

[windmill]

Hi Kathy!
Thanks for chiming in with a female point of view! Look forward to your reply.

"I don't feel sexy" was followed by the 3rd child.

As for your suggestion as what I can do better as a husband/lover....

As a husband, this is it in a nutshell.

I work 10 hour shifts Mon-Thu. for 40/hours a week.
For many months I worked an extra 2 days for overtime to provide for my family and only had one day off a week.

It helped the bank account very much, but the wife wanted me home more so I went back to 40 hours for a few months and we have agreed to me working 5 days a week now (50 hours).

Financially, the money is good.

We go on vacation to the Caribbean twice a year (just the 2 of us) for the past 3 years. Have a home on a few acres, a boat, RV, and truly are fortunate to be able to have some extras in life we can share with our kids.

My wife has a business (photography) she loves and I have financed every penny of it to get it up and going with everything she has ever desired for it.

I help out around the house plenty, I cook 1/2 the dinners throughout the week and pretty much every meal on the weekends. Read to the kids before bed, play with them, and watch their shows with them.

There are times when I come home and veg in the spare room watching my own TV show, and there are times I fall asleep on the couch after work. I'm not superman but very active in my kids life.

Both my wife and I share cleaning the house, shopping, taking the kids on outings to the park or swimming etc. 50/50

She does take the garbage bag out, and does 95% of the laundry.

For the amount I work I consider myself very active around the house with the time I have left.

As for a lover, I can't get near her.

I have many a times, run a nice bubble bath for her surrounded by candles, flowers, made a special dinner, massages, etc.

On the flip side, I have ordered "adult toys" and left them for her, hoping to allow her to get in the mood on her own. Nothing is ever touched. (these are not crazy toys either, fun nick nack kind of things).

Still nothing.

 

[windmill]

Hi again Machiavelli,

I do not believe she has been tested for hormone levels.

I can relate to the understanding she gets a high from other guys looking at her, she has even mentioned she needs that to get her in the mood. THIS is where we have a big problem!

I am not being high on myself but I am a good looking man. Slight belly but have have plenty of complements.

I have a very outgoing personality, love to crack a joke, no problem speaking in large crowds (M.C. many a wedding). Can watch the game at the pub an party or kick back on the couch with a flick.

She is a S.A.H.M but the kids are in school every second day so she has the house to herself 1/2 the time.

I won't bug her computer (what I have seen in passing has already poisoned this relationship).

My reason for advice on here is that this is my last ditch effort.

Either we are going to be honest or end it. A bug on the computer is not honest.

 

[jfv]

Hi again Machiavelli,

I do not believe she has been tested for hormone levels.

I can relate to the understanding she gets a high from other guys looking at her, she has even mentioned she needs that to get her in the mood. THIS is where we have a big problem!

I am not being high on myself but I am a good looking man. Slight belly but have have plenty of complements.

I have a very outgoing personality, love to crack a joke, no problem speaking in large crowds (M.C. many a wedding). Can watch the game at the pub an party or kick back on the couch with a flick.

She is a S.A.H.M but the kids are in school every second day so she has the house to herself 1/2 the time.

I won't bug her computer (what I have seen in passing has already poisoned this relationship).

My reason for advice on here is that this is my last ditch effort.

Either we are going to be honest or end it. A bug on the computer is not honest.

Unfortunately, while she is in a 'cake eating' mindset, 'A bug on the computer' is the only way you are going to get the most accurate picture of things from her end.

The majority of the board adivises these tactics because they know that complete honesty will not be forthcoming without undeniable proof. The 'bugs' get you this.

You need the truth in order to confront her and make an informed decision as to how to move forward in your life. How you get it should not be the main concern at this point.

Unless this in and of itself is a deal breaker in which case your next move is alot clearer than we thought. Good for you.

But OP, Do one or the other. Snoop and confront or file.

Actually, filing will show her you mean business and might lead to an honest conversation as well.

Don't you dare think of avoiding both because the only place you are going to end up in is LIMBO.

This is the most undesirable of all the outcomes and needs to be avoided at all costs.

 

[Machiavelli]

Hi again Machiavelli,

I do not believe she has been tested for hormone levels.

Does she have an OB/GYN? They're usually the guys to do this.

I can relate to the understanding she gets a high from other guys looking at her, she has even mentioned she needs that to get her in the mood. THIS is where we have a big problem!

This means she's sexually repelled by you. She has to get validation from men she's attracted to in order to get...uh, wet. This is not a good sign at all. Did you read any at those links I gave you? All that stuff is about building attraction.

I am not being high on myself but I am a good looking man. Slight belly but have have plenty of complements.

Then you've got some hard work to do. Take up weightlifting 3X per week. About 45 minutes a session max. Only bother with the heavy compounds: Leg Press, Squat, Deadlift, Overhead Press, Pulldowns, Chins, Chest Press, Bent Over Barbell Row, etc. Get rid of all grains, including beer, and sugar. You'll be amazed at the changes you'll see in 3 weeks. Don't tell her you're doing it. Just start.

Glad you get compliments, but how about propositions? Do you get those? If not, the above will help. Also, change your wardrobe. Upgrade it so you're dressing like a guy 15 years younger with a 50% higher income. And however you wear your hair, change it.

Here's why: women generally don't start making moves to raise their sex rank (like boob jobs, working out, thongs to work etc) until they're in an affair, getting ready to start one, or already decided to divorce. When you start raising your sex rank, she'll notice (probably not right away) and wonder what you think you're doing. This is why you don't discuss; your unbalancing her world and creating a new relationship dynamic merely by raising your rank.

I have a very outgoing personality, love to crack a joke, no problem speaking in large crowds (M.C. many a wedding). Can watch the game at the pub an party or kick back on the couch with a flick.

That's good, especially the outgoing part. Do you play anything? sports, music, martial arts? Do you own a motorcycle? These are all things that raise your rank.

She is a S.A.H.M but the kids are in school every second day so she has the house to herself 1/2 the time.

That's bad. Does she have a car?

I won't bug her computer (what I have seen in passing has already poisoned this relationship).

You've already caught her in inappropriate relationships. If you're not willing to help her get over her addictions to behaviors that threaten the marriage, your improvements will probably be for the benefit of your new women after the wife has moved on.

My reason for advice on here is that this is my last ditch effort.

Then run Athol's MAP and see where it goes.

Either we are going to be honest or end it. A bug on the computer is not honest.

Sure it is. Tell her you're doing it. Tell her she has to earn your trust back, because she's violated it. She knows the score, but you're being sh!t tested. She wants to know if you're man enough for her.

Let her do the cooking on the weekends. You need to quit being such a good househusband and start taking your kids to the amusement park or something part of the time and riding off on your heavy road bike in a cloud of dust.

After you read MMSL, get No More Mr. Nice Guy by Glover. You're way too Delta with your wife and this is why she's looking for a little testosterone injection elsewhere. And I don't mean the medical kind.

 

[CanadianGuy]

:iagree:

 

[JCD]

Dude, here's the deal. It's old as time but it's still real.


YOU go out and work. She has this hobby which YOU are financing essentially. You put in 60 hours a week for a long time. That works out to MAYBE 5 hours a day (not counting your day off) at home.

And what are you doing? Dinner? Cleaning? Vacuuming? Do you have a little frilly apron you wear?

I am not disparaging you just for fun (okay, for a little bit of fun) But you have a social contract. YOU bring home the bacon. She's supposed to put it over the fire and cook it. She's supposed to keep the cave clean. You keep the predators (even the two legged kind) away. And she's supposed to make squelching noises with you. You guys promised you wouldn't make noises with anyone else, but the corrolary of that promise is YOU PROVIDE SEXUAL RELIEF TO THE OTHER SPOUSE!

She is breaking the deal. You are doing HER job too. And you wonder why she thinks she can get away with this.

I'd have a conversation like this: "You OBVIOUSLY have too much time on your hands right now, if all you can do with your photography hobby is cut and paste naked pictures to other men. So I'm done financing it. If you can make a go of it, good for you. And dearest, you may HAVE to make a go of it very soon!

Now, open your email and text messages right now, or I'm going to a lawyer. You seem so quick to disparage me to all our friends. Let's see exactly what you are saying to other men which we might post on Facebook. I'm not going to sneak around trying to catch you." If she doesn't, go see a lawyer. File. (BTW, this is the result of you NOT wanting to keylog. You either have this conversation or stay a chump without evidence)

When you get home, go out with the lads. Don't know any? Go out and meet some! You can't 'hit' her if you aren't home in front of a dozen witnesses.

Tell her parents what she is doing. It's better if you actually have PROOF, but you're too high minded...and you'll get socially destroyed by her as a result without any way to defend yourself.

Which means you are a chump. I hope your dignity keeps you warm, because you have nothing and she has a broken table with a nice narrative.

Leave her the budgeted cash for her expenses, and cut off her access to the ATM and Credit Cards. She can't leave if suddenly she doesn't have access to the money.

Stop babysitting so she can flirt with MANY other men.

Have some pride!

 

[Shaggy]

First stop accepting that you did something wrong by snooping and emailing. You did not.

Your wife is soliciting sexual attraction from other men. She's very obviously hunting for that. The boob job is a neon sign... Notice Me Sexually.

She isn't seeing you as someone valuable to attract, and she is trying to seek a replacement , at least in the area of emotional and sells partner. She will be happy to have you pay the bills and watch the kids.

You need to get her to see you as someone valuable to have. That's where Married Mans Sex Life comes in, it's a must read for you ASAP.

Now, you also need to see his far your wife is going with these other guys. If you do not have a keylogger on the PC, a voice activated recorder in her car, and aren't checking out how much and to whom she is calling and texting.l. You need to.

It isn't important that your wife was sending someone else's naked pics, though I don't believe that, and wouldn't the exbf have noticed? It doesn't matter because what matters is she is sending sexual pics to other men. She is seeking sexual contact and excitement and stimulation from other men, and she is giving it in return.

I think chances are high that she's had some form of physical affair since the boob job, because she would have wanted to test them out. It may nit have been full on penetration sex, but touching, kissing, maybe oral.

Now, Leo stop accepting the blame shifting she's thrown at you. Instead of feeling remorse for her online cheating, she's made it all about you getting angry at finding out she was cheating.

Let me tell you this: you should get angry when your wife is cheating.

Next time however, realize that it's far more effective to expose the affair to the other man's wife. What you should have done, hd can still do is contact the other man's wife and let her know what her husband has been up to. She will deal with him, and he will throw your wife under the bus.

That will serve you well, because once your wife gets over her anger at being called out and dumped, she will see that the OM didn't want her, he was just using her.

 

[Shaggy]

Oh, and remember three things:

Cheaters lie, so you can't negotiate with them.

Don't reveal your sources to how you know sonething.

You can't nice your spouse out of an affair. They don't repesct you already, and you being even nicer to them just destroys any shred left.

 

[Emerald]

Woman here despite the avi

You sound like a wonderful husband. I would be thrilled to have a husband that worked & helped around the household if I were a SAHM. You've heard from the guys but some women DO love a nice guy (not a doormat) like you.

I mean no disrespect, but your wife sounds like a spoiled, entitled princess. This forum is filled with them. Are you sure she didn't marry you for your money & the lifestyle you are providing?

Is she a good Mother? Because frankly, good Mother's don't sext with multiple men.

You say she is gorgeous. Was she hypersexual at all during your time together? Does she have mood swings? flights of ideas?

 

[windmill]

Thanks Everyone for chiming in!

I appreciate the input for the men to "Alpha up"

And the input from the women as it is so crucial for me to get an aspect form a woman point of view.

As for my wife being spoiled, I would say that I do spoil her.

As for her marrying me for my money I don't think so.

I will say the men she dated before me treated her like crap, did not have any real jobs, used her, and some were abusive.

When we met I was employed and owned a home (well mortgage was still there) but it was a simple home and it was a nice place to live.

We had a relationship of, lots of fun, laughing, sex (sex was very fun and adventurous - to the degree I would say she was hypersexual. It was GREAT!), times on the couch, going out Fridays to the pub, etc.

I know I was better off financial than I'd say most of her ex's. I am a self made man and never got handouts from anyone ever. Everything I own I have worked for.

After baby 2, I got a new job that took us away from the city and out to the country, we were in a place where we knew nobody and she was stuck inside with 2 kids, despite my encouragement to get out and join the pool league (she enjoys playing pool) etc.she would not go out.

We did marry after baby #3 which was after I was making better money, but she was with me before that.

She wanted to share the same last name as her children and I (even though 3 years later she has not filled out 1 paper to have her name changed).

She does have mood swings, but I'd say I do too. Perhaps it is over frustration for me, not sure why for her.

Flights of ideas are plentyful, there is always some new idea to be had and her head goes into the clouds of that idea, however she never follows it up and 2 weeks or a month later there is a new "great idea" to presue.

With her being so "busy" with all these ideas, she is of to the computer and I sit in the other room or on my computer.

We do not spend time together because of the computer and when she does leave it to come sit in the room with me she has her ipad on her lap and plays games.
When I voice my dislike for the computers or ipad it's like I just opened the door to a hungry lion.

So there I sit, frustrated, neglected and without trying to sound like a weenie, just plain saddened by my marriage.

 

[Emerald]

My line of questioning was to determine if there is a "possibility" that she is bipolar. Other clues would be family history. She may also have adult ADHD if she has trouble focusing.

What is also interesting is how "horrible" all of the ex boyfriends were. I don't believe it. She is not telling you her issues in those relationships, but now you are living them.

So your beautiful, spoiled wife with her new boobs has closed up shop for her husband & provider as she searches for new men.

I am really sorry about this. I hope she will agree to go to counseling although counseling will not help if she is an EA or PA.

 

[JCD]

Who pushed for the marriage?

Why did you wait till Thing 3?

 

[anchorwatch]

She's getting more attention from these men than you or at least the you before you discovered her activities. You absolutely needed to spend more time consisting of undivided attention together. NOT IN FRONT OF TV OR THE WEB. It only has to be conversation or joint activity. That's how intimacy is developed.

Read the book Machiavelli recommended, Married Man Sex Life and up your rank with your MAP.

Also use the book, His Needs Her Needs in conjunction with the MAP for faster results.

You seem to be using your anger problem for an excuse to be a nice guy. Stop it, don't be a nice guy. Set some boundaries with consequences, then follow through. Even though you'll go through a period of resistance with her when you take away her toys, she will respect you more when it's over.

As for the way you confronted the OM, if you were direct with him as her husband, what could she whine on the social sites about? Her husband confronted her adulterous suitor?

If you can't get her attention away from these OM and social sites, I would recommend you stop subsidizing her adultery by turning off the internet service.

As far as monitoring her activities, I also don't know why you have a problem with it. I consider her deceptive activities destroying the relationship to be worse that you trying to save your marriage and family. It would only put things on an even playing field.

 

[windmill]

I would buy into her possibly being bipolar or having ADHD, she does have extreme difficulty focusing on anything (other than her photography) for very long. Lord knows she don't focus on our love life and has not for years. Last time we made love was over 10 months ago and if I had to guess it would be about 6 times in the last 3 years (since I said "I do") Granted there was about a year where she could not do to medical reasons.

Also she is often moody. I can't figure if she is unstable or under slept (she works at the local pub once or twice a week and it closes around midnight on average. Still she is always in bed very late and up early, she's been running on little sleep for a very long time.

As for the ex boyfriends I have no doubt in my mind I am paying for their mistreatments (as well as her fathers). Her father was very controlling and she was wild because of it as a youngster.

If I so much as suggest she get to bed early I am accused of being controlling, and that goes for pretty much anything I say to try and help. Now I feel like I have the "wild one" on my hands. Like a big F U I'll do what I want.

Often the house is upended and ranting is heard from the other room due to some trivial thing like, say "the kids don't have crackers for their lunch". For some reason this is reason to "flip out". Personally I see nothing wrong with tossing in some raisins and putting crackers on the shopping list but this kind of crap does happen. Not to mention I take over and fix the kids lunches so I don't have to hear about the nonsense .

The more I try to help either by actually doing a task or by making a suggestion (like get a good nights sleep). If I do the task she stomps off bickering or I get attacked and labeled as "controlling" for my suggestion.

I feel like she is a spoiled brat that sees me in the same light as her controlling father. In the end I have to deal with is a lot like a disrespectful teenager, perhaps I am playing a parental role? Suggestions??

 

[Emerald]

hmmm.....not sure about bipolar....the mood swings would be more drastic between mania & depression. She seems amped up - needs hardly any sleep & lots of crazy-behavior sending fake naked pics to men.

Regardless, you are in a sexless marriage & an emotionally abusive marriage topped with affair fishing or a full-blown affair that you might uncover with some investigation.

I feel bad for you & your children.