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That being the case, I don't see how any of the suggested "programs" are going to work at improving the marriage. She flat out isn't interested in being close to you, in any way. What's there to work with?
In that case the point of the program is to develop self worth, improve your sexual market value, and leave her behind while you step out and make a new one with her in the rear view mirror.

If you actually do what Kay’s or DSO’s book suggests when you’re in the right place mentally and have been executing on your MAP (male action plan) it will be clear that you either need to leave or things are fixed.

There isn’t a middle outcome where it’s kind of the same but she throws you an extra bone every once in a while.

Developing self worth and improving yourself are good goals period, but in this case they help the guy to see he has value and he doesn’t have to be stuck in the situation he’s in.
 

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Plan for now is the reading, working out. I'm going to wait to talk to her about this issue for now. I am considering looking into counseling for us because I think I'll just run into the same resistance as before. We are already looking for a counselor for one of our son's who has anxiety and attention issues. Maybe we can find one that handles marriage counseling as well.
Stay busy as well. Give her the space to actually miss you.

But yes, I would continue to initiate, if for nothing more than helping to bring the issue to a crescendo.

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In the OP’s case he’s got another serious problem in that his wife isn’t having orgasms. That’s kind of outside the scope of what Kay or DSO’s book are about, the assumption with those “plans” is that your sex life was adequate with this person in the past.

In this case, for her it was probably never amazing.

In this case you might be better served seeing a sex therapist; rather getting her to see one to try and become orgasmic.
 

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It is true that the nuclear option is not the only factor in the equation.

That said, my situation was significant, and it did not lead to 'duty sex'.

Rationalizing away someone's success by labeling it as 'not that bad' is really just a mechanism to justify doing nothing.

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Well, you are not the owner of absolute truth. Nobody is. But I'm happy for you.
 

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I think masturbating for some people is just easier and can be more fulfilling. She knows what she wants and sometimes if you want things done the right way you do it yourself lol. Think about it - when my wife and I have sex there is showering then the kissing then cuddling then the foreplay then sex. By the time we are done, 1-2 hours have gone by. It's quite the production. But with masturbation you don't have all that. I would love it if I knew my wife masturbated but I know she doesn't. She was taught that it was dirty. I know - this is coming from a woman who had ONS's, sex on the first date, etc. How she is hung up on this I have no idea. I think it would be sexy but she doesn't like toys which is a huge bummer for me (I have a box full waiting to use on her if she ever decides she is ready).

However, like some others said, she has to balance that with you. If masturbating completely replaced you then you definitely need to talk about it.
 

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I think masturbating for some people is just easier and can be more fulfilling. She knows what she wants and sometimes if you want things done the right way you do it yourself lol. Think about it - when my wife and I have sex there is showering then the kissing then cuddling then the foreplay then sex. By the time we are done, 1-2 hours have gone by. It's quite the production. But with masturbation you don't have all that. I would love it if I knew my wife masturbated but I know she doesn't. She was taught that it was dirty. I know - this is coming from a woman who had ONS's, sex on the first date, etc. How she is hung up on this I have no idea. I think it would be sexy but she doesn't like toys which is a huge bummer for me (I have a box full waiting to use on her if she ever decides she is ready).

However, like some others said, she has to balance that with you. If masturbating completely replaced you then you definitely need to talk about it.
Yeah but this man is certainly not ever getting (he should correct me if I'm wrong) 1 to 2 hour long sex sessions of showering kissing cuddling foreplay and sex. Not ever.

See the difference from your relationship?
 

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Discussion Starter · #167 ·
In the OP’s case he’s got another serious problem in that his wife isn’t having orgasms. That’s kind of outside the scope of what Kay or DSO’s book are about, the assumption with those “plans” is that your sex life was adequate with this person in the past.

In this case, for her it was probably never amazing.

In this case you might be better served seeing a sex therapist; rather getting her to see one to try and become orgasmic.
I think she'd view suggesting sex therapy as suggesting there's something wrong with her and put her on the defensive. Also, we are active in our church (I know many here will probably scoff) and she'd probably feel embarrassed and view it as dirty.
 

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Several years ago (maybe before kids) I bought a small vibrator to use on my wife during sex. She said it didn't seem to do much for her, so we put in her nightstand and left it.

We've been married 23 years. Early in our marriage, sex was 2-3 times a week. Our sexual frequency dropped to once a week after kid #1, same after kid #2. Over the last few years, we've gotten to about once a month. This is not by my choice.

A couple of weeks ago, I thought about the vibrator and maybe getting new batteries and trying it again. When I went to check on what type of battery, I noticed there seemed to be new batteries. Vibration was stronger than what I remembered. I saw the old batteries still laying in the drawer.
I've figured out she's using it about once a week the last couple of weeks.
I'm frustrated because I've nearly given up asking her to have sex and just let it happen whenever and be content. I'm confused why she would do this when she knows I'm willing at any time.

Sex discussions have been difficult in the past. I've tried talking to her about our frequency before and she just won't sat much. I've tried to ask if I've done something to turn her away or need to do something different and she'll answer with "no" or "I don't know." Most of the time, if I ask to have sex she says no. She'll say she's not in the mood or too tired.

Should I tell her I know she's using the vibrator and ask questions? I always thought the idea of her masturbating is arousing, but, since I found this out I've been confused and hurt.
You need to talk with her. Why the vibe and not you? or incorporate it into your lovemaking, that'd be fun. We do. Good luck
 

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I think she'd view suggesting sex therapy as suggesting there's something wrong with her and put her on the defensive. Also, we are active in our church (I know many here will probably scoff) and she'd probably feel embarrassed and view it as dirty.
You keep changing and adding info to steadily defend her. The answer is you're really not committed to bringing the problems to a head or do the work to change and improve.
 

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I think she'd view suggesting sex therapy as suggesting there's something wrong with her and put her on the defensive. Also, we are active in our church (I know many here will probably scoff) and she'd probably feel embarrassed and view it as dirty.
Probably, however there is something wrong which she may have never had an orgasm.
 

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I think she'd view suggesting sex therapy as suggesting there's something wrong with her and put her on the defensive. Also, we are active in our church (I know many here will probably scoff) and she'd probably feel embarrassed and view it as dirty.
There is something wrong in the relationship. There is. Otherwise you wouldn't be posting onba forum for help.

Too bad if she's on the defensive. Are you going to let her unhealthy and dysfunctional reactions (on the defensive when you bring up a relationship issue) rule your life and relationship? If so, that's a very unhealthy relationship dynamic.
 

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The vow I took when I got married was to love her through all of life's ups and downs. To cut off my love in retaliation would go against that vow. I feel it's a biblical mandate and I refuse to stop showing love to my wife. If there was cheating involved that's different.
The bottom line is that most women subconsciously want men to take charge.
I've been where you were at. I put up with it for seven years, trying to be the "Good Guy."
One night, she did something to me which I deemed to be very cruel.
At that point, I learned two things: 1) People can only treat you like crap with your permission, and 2) If you truly want a good marriage, you have to be willing to blow it up.

Here is the story:

Since this happened, I have had as much sex as I have wanted regularly, and Mrs.Tdbo's attitude returned to she was when we were dating. S**t got real for her.

She realized that my position could be summed up with the famous quote from Howard Beale " I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"
 

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I honestly don't know for sure. She seems like she does sometimes, but, I asked her once if she did. She said she didn't know for sure, but, wasn't hung up on it. Said she enjoyed the sex we had and didn't want to get caught up worrying about it.
I'm calling BS here on her part, if she is using the vibrator she knows what an orgasm feels like. Unless this was back before she started using it. But she sure knows now!
 

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Knows what it feels like, but it may be taking her knowing what to do with the vibrator to make it happen.
 

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The bottom line is that most women subconsciously want men to take charge.
I've been where you were at. I put up with it for seven years, trying to be the "Good Guy."
One night, she did something to me which I deemed to be very cruel.
At that point, I learned two things: 1) People can only treat you like crap with your permission, and 2) If you truly want a good marriage, you have to be willing to blow it up.

Here is the story:

Since this happened, I have had as much sex as I have wanted regularly, and Mrs.Tdbo's attitude returned to she was when we were dating. S**t got real for her.

She realized that my position could be summed up with the famous quote from Howard Beale " I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"
Wow, great story and example of "going nuclear" with great success.
 

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Discussion Starter · #180 ·
I'm calling BS here on her part, if she is using the vibrator she knows what an orgasm feels like. Unless this was back before she started using it. But she sure knows now!
The orgasm discussion was early in our marriage, before we had the vibrator. We haven't discussed it seriously since.
 
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