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I would try to talk to her yet, and tell her that this is really affecting you and your marriage, and that this is something that needs to be worked on. See how she responds; If it's a positive response and she actually steps up, you'll know that she cares about you and the marriage. If she just kind of blows you off, you have your answer: she's just not that into you.
This, right here. I firmly believe that a spouse should do everything in their power to make sure the other spouse is mentally well and not suffering due to the relationship. If you talk to your wife, and she stonewalls you, or anything like that, she's basically telling you your needs in this marriage are unimportant. Think about it, if you were doing something to her to make her uncomfortable and second guessing the marriage and she came to you to talk about it, how would you react? for me, if my wife did that, I would do everything in my power to correct it as i'm sure you would. Shouldn't she do the same? doesn't she at LEAST owe you the duty to TRY and figure it out?

If she won't even try, then you have some tough decisions to make. It's not about the sex, it's about caring for one another.
 

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Discussion Starter · #183 ·
I think I've resolved to talk with her this weekend about this. The kids will be home most of the time, so, I have to figure out where to talk, I'm not sure if that's a good idea to have them around.
 

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This, right here. I firmly believe that a spouse should do everything in their power to make sure the other spouse is mentally well and not suffering due to the relationship. If you talk to your wife, and she stonewalls you, or anything like that, she's basically telling you your needs in this marriage are unimportant. Think about it, if you were doing something to her to make her uncomfortable and second guessing the marriage and she came to you to talk about it, how would you react? for me, if my wife did that, I would do everything in my power to correct it as i'm sure you would. Shouldn't she do the same? doesn't she at LEAST owe you the duty to TRY and figure it out?

If she won't even try, then you have some tough decisions to make. It's not about the sex, it's about caring for one another.
This is a point that always seems to get lost when we talk about sex in marriage. Sex is as important and maybe more important than other needs of a healthy marriage. If one spouse is emotionally unhappy and dissatisfied with the marriage, it doesn't matter what the cause is. It is a problem for the marriage, so it is a problem to be dealt with by BOTH spouses.
 

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I think I've resolved to talk with her this weekend about this. The kids will be home most of the time, so, I have to figure out where to talk, I'm not sure if that's a good idea to have them around.
Definitely don't want the kids around. They would be took distracting.
 

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j
I think I've resolved to talk with her this weekend about this. The kids will be home most of the time, so, I have to figure out where to talk, I'm not sure if that's a good idea to have them around.
Good luck with that. How you approach it and such will make a big difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #187 ·
So when you do have sex now do you know if she is orgasming? Will she let you perform oral on her?
I'll usually ask if she's "good" or if I'm ok to finish. She's not one to verbalize much during sex. Moans increasing volume is usually what happens. She shut down oral several years ago.
 

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I'll usually ask if she's "good" or if I'm ok to finish. She's not one to verbalize much during sex. Moans increasing volume is usually what happens. She shut down oral several years ago.
So you don't really know. she could be increasing the moans to 'help' you. I also find it amusing how many men seem to 'hold' off. Well some women have trouble with PIV actually doing anything for them (I think last survey it was like 80% of women) so really holding off is just lengthening it.

Look into a weVibe or some of the other toys that are easy to use during sex.
 

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See, women can get off in about 2 minutes if they're doing it themselves so that it's done just right and have no distractions, like someone asking them questions or just being there where you have to think about them as well, the key word there being "think" when you need to be zoning out to orgasm.
 
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I can say if you can get her to go vibrator with PIV it can be a magic combo could even be a winning one. My wife wants both at the same time which reminds me I gotta put it on the charger.
 

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I'll usually ask if she's "good" or if I'm ok to finish. She's not one to verbalize much during sex. Moans increasing volume is usually what happens. She shut down oral several years ago.
And you passively accepted this...

The core issue in your marriage is not sex, that’s just a symptom.

It’s clear at this point that your wife has all of the power and control in your marriage. And you have conducted yourself as a weak, passive man, supplicating to her and her whims, and following her around like an affectionate neutered puppy.
You are not the leader in your marriage, your wife is.

As a result, your wife doesn’t respect you at all. Women don’t respect men that they can control. Women don’t respect men they can walk over.
Women respect (and are sexually attracted to) strong men, and despise weak men.
She knows (or feels), probably at a limbic level, that if you’re not strong enough to stand up TO her, you’re probably not strong enough to effectively stand up FOR her.

So she is the leader of your marriage. She sets the tone, she makes the rules, she holds the frame and you follow.

Most women (regardless of what the say publicly) do not want to be the leader. They expect their husband to lead, and typically become very resentful when they have to fill that role (regardless of whether they thought they wanted it or not).
And nothing makes a woman dryer and less sexual than feeling stronger and more dominant than her husband.

Based on your posts here, that is the core issue here.

The good news: you control you. And you can change yourself and this dynamic in your marriage, if you choose to.

The less-good news: It’s been 20 years of this. Her perception of you and your marriage dynamic may be too deeply embedded for her to accept or believe a change at this point, even if it’s positive for everyone. Maybe 50/50 if this fixable at this point.

The better news: Even if she doesn’t come around, you can take control of your situation and build yourself into a much better position, whether it’s with her or without.

edit
and when you finish Married Mans Sex Life Primer, read it again. Then read No More Mr Nice Guy.
 

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Ok, I've been advised in other parts of this thread to flirt more, show affection during the day and initiate more.

Here I'm being advised to cut back on showing her attention and affection since she's denying me sex.

What gives? Aren't these opposing?

As far as holding back attention and affection, there's not much to cut back on. She likes to spend the evening by herself working on her hobbies and watching shows. She doesn't really act like she craves attention.

I used to write her love notes fairly often and things like that. She actually told me the love notes started to be too much, so, I don't do that much anymore.
Some automatically think anyone with the Y chromosome must have done something to solicit this treatment. If you have been a good hubby and busting your balls for her and she has not gotten any better, then all you can do is change how you behave toward her. I think you should initiate and if she gets pissy, so be it. But when it gets to a point you are done, she cant say she did not know.

Like aome said, hit the gym, work on you....do not be at her beacon call. Dont ask for sex....makes yoy look like a child asking for a cookie. If she shuts you down, go do something else, man cave, your shop or even off the property.

If there are no consequences for her being neglectful to your needs....she sees no pushback from you....why should she change her ways. You cant kiss her ass and nice her back if you are not the one who was the neglectful meanie that pushed her away.

Read No More Mr Nice Guy and MMSLP and fix you. Earlier in my marriage i was about to walk with sex 3x month....was not working for me. Would i have gotten away with speaking to my wife 3x month....hell no she would be pissed. But you are business as usual.

I started to detatch, dropped 50lbs in 5 weeks, hit the weights hard and buffed up. Wife crapped herself....she said she thought i was already gone. I had one foot out the door. We had a real communication breakthrough and she finally understood what intimacy meant to me. That i consider withholding physical intimacy in marriage(where no violence,etc has been a issue) as sexually immoral behavior and Biblical grounds for divorce.

We have been together 25 yrs and are intimate minimum 5x week unless someone is ill.
 

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I honestly don't know for sure. She seems like she does sometimes, but, I asked her once if she did. She said she didn't know for sure, but, wasn't hung up on it. Said she enjoyed the sex we had and didn't want to get caught up worrying about it.
I'm aware that answer meant she hadn't orgasmed. But she also told me she didn't want to get hung up on it because she was satisfied with what we have. I know better than to continue to press the issue because she'll feel pressured and that's not going to help.

And yes, I know she probably didn't want to hurt my ego.
I think she'd view suggesting sex therapy as suggesting there's something wrong with her and put her on the defensive. Also, we are active in our church (I know many here will probably scoff) and she'd probably feel embarrassed and view it as dirty.
@Thunderbird if you never ever got to experience an orgasm while sharing sex with your wife, would you want to keep sharing sex with her often or at all?

Not wanting to share sex with someone more frequently when she doesn't get much out of it, is not the behaviour of a person who has something wrong with them. In fact such behaviour is perfectly reasonable.

Just as masturbating on ones own to achieve orgasm, while not wanting to share sex with a partner often or at all. Is also perfectly reasonable when partnered with someone who can't get you there.

That said unless or until you can address that enormous limitation, it is a fools errand to think that dangling the dissolution of your marriage over her head, is going to make her desire more helpings of disappointing sex.
 

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Sometimes if sex is a draining conversation it’s easier to turn to other things for pleasure. Seems as if the lack of sex has turned her off or perhaps made her feel insecure in some way. Women go through many changes/emotions especially having kids . There is a bigger picture here. Either way I pray you two find time to be open and communicate so that you can attempt to repair things
 

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And you passively accepted this...

The core issue in your marriage is not sex, that’s just a symptom.

It’s clear at this point that your wife has all of the power and control in your marriage. And you have conducted yourself as a weak, passive man, supplicating to her and her whims, and following her around like an affectionate neutered puppy.
You are not the leader in your marriage, your wife is.

As a result, your wife doesn’t respect you at all. Women don’t respect men that they can control. Women don’t respect men they can walk over.
Women respect (and are sexually attracted to) strong men, and despise weak men.
She knows (or feels), probably at a limbic level, that if you’re not strong enough to stand up TO her, you’re probably not strong enough to effectively stand up FOR her.

So she is the leader of your marriage. She sets the tone, she makes the rules, she holds the frame and you follow.

Most women (regardless of what the say publicly) do not want to be the leader. They expect their husband to lead, and typically become very resentful when they have to fill that role (regardless of whether they thought they wanted it or not).
And nothing makes a woman dryer and less sexual than feeling stronger and more dominant than her husband.

Based on your posts here, that is the core issue here.

The good news: you control you. And you can change yourself and this dynamic in your marriage, if you choose to.

The less-good news: It’s been 20 years of this. Her perception of you and your marriage dynamic may be too deeply embedded for her to accept or believe a change at this point, even if it’s positive for everyone. Maybe 50/50 if this fixable at this point.

The better news: Even if she doesn’t come around, you can take control of your situation and build yourself into a much better position, whether it’s with her or without.

edit
and when you finish Married Mans Sex Life Primer, read it again. Then read No More Mr Nice Guy.
This ☝
Some automatically think anyone with the Y chromosome must have done something to solicit this treatment. If you have been a good hubby and busting your balls for her and she has not gotten any better, then all you can do is change how you behave toward her. I think you should initiate and if she gets pissy, so be it. But when it gets to a point you are done, she cant say she did not know.

Like aome said, hit the gym, work on you....do not be at her beacon call. Dont ask for sex....makes yoy look like a child asking for a cookie. If she shuts you down, go do something else, man cave, your shop or even off the property.

If there are no consequences for her being neglectful to your needs....she sees no pushback from you....why should she change her ways. You cant kiss her ass and nice her back if you are not the one who was the neglectful meanie that pushed her away.

Read No More Mr Nice Guy and MMSLP and fix you. Earlier in my marriage i was about to walk with sex 3x month....was not working for me. Would i have gotten away with speaking to my wife 3x month....hell no she would be pissed. But you are business as usual.

I started to detatch, dropped 50lbs in 5 weeks, hit the weights hard and buffed up. Wife crapped herself....she said she thought i was already gone. I had one foot out the door. We had a real communication breakthrough and she finally understood what intimacy meant to me. That i consider withholding physical intimacy in marriage(where no violence,etc has been a issue) as sexually immoral behavior and Biblical grounds for divorce.

We have been together 25 yrs and are intimate minimum 5x week unless someone is ill.
And this ☝
 

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I'll usually ask if she's "good" or if I'm ok to finish. She's not one to verbalize much during sex. Moans increasing volume is usually what happens. She shut down oral several years ago.
Why did she shut down oral?

Was it recurring VJ infections?

If so, one cure is to keep everything, every part that touches her... clean.
She, also needs to keep that local area-code (down there) clean.

Use face washing, brushing/toothpaste and Listerine prior to deep muff diving.

If not that, then you need to learn how it is, SHE likes it.


The Typist-
 
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