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So my wife of almost 10 years (Feb) has told me she's done and does not want to have anything to do with me at all. We have 3 kids 4, 8, 12. The 12 year old is not biologically mine, but I am dad as his sperm donor has not been in the picture since before he was 2. We were all set up for me to adopt him in Nov.

Things weren’t great from the beginning. We have very different backgrounds. Mine a religious conservative upbringing. Hers a broken family and she “experienced life” a bit more than I did, meaning she was out on her own quite a bit more than I and she used drugs casually. I’ve never even smoked mj. She was my bartender.

I can look back and see that a particular unresolved incident is the root of most of our problems. About 6 months before we married, we were living in an apartment. Her brother was staying with us for a couple months. Her sister (who was throwing her marriage with 2 kids away at that time) and kids were over a lot. I felt a bit overwhelmed with all of them and a bit “left out”. I began getting suspicious of some things going on in my household and I was very protective of my new “son”. I put a recorder on my phone line to see what if anything was going on. Sure enough, I caught a recording of my soon to be wife talking to someone about her brother receiving some drug late that night, and that he could score some stuff for our wedding in about 6 months. She had agreed to give up any drug use, and was talking about a one time thing. Anyway, I caught the pack of cigs whatever it was being delivered in the morning and confronted the brother about it, who was sorry, etc. Most importantly, I confronted her as to whether she knew anything about it and she straight up lied. I didn’t deal with it for fear of having to bring up me recording the phones. A short time later, she discovered the recorder and her trust in me went out the window. Over the years, I’ve brought up the incident, but she’s never admitted to the lie. I’ve apologized for what I did, whether I was right or wrong.

Fast forward through 10 years, we’ve had trust and closeness issues. Shes always felt that I haven’t shown interest in her, trust in her and a general laziness. And she’s been right. Theres been some times that I’ve shown a lack of trust in her with some things I’ve done, and I made some really bad mistakes that hurt her and didn’t show respect for her and our marriage. For example, I was out of shape and she was in good shape. I am much more lax and she is always doing something. One of the most regrettable is that for years, I would fall asleep on the couch and not with her.

For me, I’ve always felt like the 3rd class citizen with her, behind the kids and the rest of her family. I’ve always felt left out, and not respected. In my line of business, I make very good money in a short amount of time and we live reasonably well, but I’ve never felt like she has ever shown me respect for that. When I tried to clean the house or do something for her, I never seemed to meet her approval, so anything I did felt pointless. I didn’t think going to bed with her was that important, and in fact did so sometimes out of spite for the way she was making me feel. The lack of trust from that first incident seems to have threads running through all these issues.

After a couple more kids, the past few years have gotten really intense with fights and especially with things she’s said to me. We tried counseling a couple times but it didn’t stick. Some things did get better, like me sleeping in the bed most of the time, but every time we had some big blow up, I or she would change a little bit for a little while, but would revert. There have been a couple of physical incidents, 3 on her end and one on mine. The worst of which was her screwing up my ear with a punch to it. She also started using the D word every argument, even threatening the 10 year rule (might be a CA thing) about 1 year ago.

However, starting in June of last year, we really started arguing less and all summer long and into September had many conversations about not wanting divorce, how she would say that just to get a rise out of me, and planning on really focusing on our marriage and some intense counseling and church involvement come November (my line of work required me almost 7 days a week and being out of town toward the end of Sept through the beginning of Nov). We even and a wonderful weekend and conversations on a weekend in the middle of October.

Two days after I got back is when I got the “I’m done and don’t want to do anything about it”. And I’ve been in the guest room and in hell ever since. I went straight into counseling (as we had planned) and really made the decision to change how I did things around the house and for myself (I lost 50 pounds in 2 months working out almost every day). She went to about 3 counseling sessions, walking out on the 3rd because she didn’t like what the pastor had to say. I think she just wants someone who will agree with her. She has seemed like she has been on the fence over it at times, but has kept it up.

It got worse in the beginning of December when I found out there’s another guy involved. She has stayed overnight at his house 4 or 5 times. Hes a scumbag from the gym. I discovered it accidentally as I ran into him one night at a bar and he started crude talk about someone who sounded like my wife. It wasn’t hard finding his name and looking him up on the internet. One night my wife left the house to “go to her sisters” and sure enough, her car was in his driveway when I drove to his house. My pastor had me hold off on confronting her for about a week and a half. Finally, after one full night and one weekend of her staying with this guy, I had to drop the hammer. She lied until I named the guy and his address. Then she went from saying that there was nothing wrong with it to “it is an affair” (she is denying that they have had sex). Shes now back to hes just a friend and there’s nothing wrong with it. She has done nothing but lie about it to everyone. Christmas was horrible. I have given her ample opportunity to change this but she spent the night with him last Saturday night. I have turned a bit of a corner in that I have changed my stance from being the husband who is trying to show her I’m changed to the husband who has made an internal change, but will not be walked on anymore.

I’m just heartbroken though, between my kids telling me they don’t want mom and dad to split up (she has been selfishly talking to them behind my back about divorce and subtly blaming me) and the loss of something that is totally fixable. Believe it or not, I still want to try to fix things, though I know I cant guarantee that I will forgive her or want her back now or in the future. But I know it is right for me to try. The other factor though is that she could very well be playing me to get past our 10 year before filing the divorce, plus I’m at the point where I cant have any self respect anymore and continue to put up with her behavior. I think I’m going to file a separation in the next day or two.

I know this is long, so I’ll end it. Any advice, thoughts and prayers would be appreciated. I feel a tiny bit better being able to air this out, but I am devastated inside at the prospect of this absolute nightmare.

Thanks
 

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Sounds like a troubled marriage from the very beginning. I know this sounds cold and not a lengthy solution, but I see no other way out than the divorce. She has, essentially, taken up with another guy and thinks nothing much of it. She seems to not care much about betraying you or the kids. I wish I could give you a better answer, but I don't see one.
 

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Sounds like a troubled marriage from the very beginning. I know this sounds cold and not a lengthy solution, but I see no other way out than the divorce. She has, essentially, taken up with another guy and thinks nothing much of it. She seems to not care much about betraying you or the kids. I wish I could give you a better answer, but I don't see one.
:iagree::iagree:
 

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If 10 years makes a big difference in terms of spousal support you better go and file now to protect yourself.

It's rather odd that she's openly staying over at this guys place even after the affair has been exposed.

She just doesn't care about you anymore and nothing short of a miracle is going to bring this pony back to the barn and even if it did, I can't imagine you'd really want her for much longer.
 

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You need to expose the guy she's cheatng ith, post him on cheateville.com,

You also need to find out what she's on agsin, because it sounds like she is agsinst using drugs.
 

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You must feel like the world is collapsing around you. Your wife has been unfaithful for far, far longer than you suspect.

You have to know that from the very start she $aw you a$ a ca$h cow. At first for her drugs and son. Then for creature comforts. She was watching the calendar waiting for the 10 year mark.

You may have celebrated that anniversary date with her, but you can bet she had a special party with her friends too. She's fully vested in your finances now and for a long time to come.

Unless she drops the drugs (you are fooling yourself if you think she isn't using), drops the friends, and drops her lovers, you don't have a prayer.

Cut your losses. You can do what one of my brothers did and research states that won't soak you in a divorce like Ca will and talk her into moving there.

It could help the marriage by removing her from all the toxic draws. And if not, then you can have a more equitable settlement.

Staying soley for the good of the kids is a very bad idea.
 

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Don't get too pissed off when you read this (it's very harsh medicine), because if you follow up on these observations, suggestions, and reading list, it will serve you very well, either in your next relationship or even in this one in the unlikely event your wife should come crawling back for some reason. Before you read what follows, take a look at the Male Hierarchy and see where you fall. Remember, most women are not truly attracted to most men, even though most men are attracted to most women. All the blame is on her, and that includes the taped conversation incident.

So my wife of almost 10 years (Feb) has told me she's done and does not want to have anything to do with me at all. We have 3 kids 4, 8, 12. The 12 year old is not biologically mine, but I am dad as his sperm donor has not been in the picture since before he was 2.
Well, it's a little late for me to point this out, but getting with a single mother is usually not a good thing for a young man. Fine for an old geezer, but not a young man on his first marriage. All young men in your position need to very carefully consider whether or not they are being roped in as a so-called "beta-provider" to raise the spawn of the "bad-boy" who knocked up and abandoned the mother. The "bad boy" was a guy she got super turned on by, as for you, not so much. Perversely, the vary fact that you were willing to marry her, causes you to lose value in her eyes. Enormous Mistake #1.

We were all set up for me to adopt him in Nov.
When you're saying your prayers tonight, thank the Good Lord above that this did not play out. Even if you get back with her, don't adopt the spawn. It's not the kid's fault, but it's not your fault either. ¿Comprende?

Things weren’t great from the beginning.
I'll go out on a limb guessing her opinion of your purpose in life was to shut up and pay the bills and your occasional reward for doing so was some less than smokin' hot mercy sex.

We have very different backgrounds. Mine a religious conservative upbringing. Hers a broken family and she “experienced life” a bit more than I did, meaning she was out on her own quite a bit more than I and she used drugs casually. I’ve never even smoked mj. She was my bartender.
This is beating a dead horse, but that's not the best place to find a wife. Fun for the evening is one thing, but getting entangled for life with kids and finances and half your future earnings, not so much. I was a lead guitarist back in the day when that meant something, so I met a lot of women in bars. I sure didn't get my wife from one, and especially not from behind the bar. Enormous Mistake #2.

I can look back and see that a particular unresolved incident is the root of most of our problems. About 6 months before we married, we were living in an apartment. Her brother was staying with us for a couple months. Her sister (who was throwing her marriage with 2 kids away at that time) and kids were over a lot. I felt a bit overwhelmed with all of them and a bit “left out”. I began getting suspicious of some things going on in my household and I was very protective of my new “son”. I put a recorder on my phone line to see what if anything was going on. Sure enough, I caught a recording of my soon to be wife talking to someone about her brother receiving some drug late that night, and that he could score some stuff for our wedding in about 6 months. She had agreed to give up any drug use, and was talking about a one time thing.
Stop right there. She's violating the rules of your house and the agreed upon terms of your relationship, which in this case is no dope. She is in the wrong and needs to be reigned in. She also demonstrated that she is not to be trusted and doesn't keep her commitments. I know, water over the dam, but anything that follows on from this incident is strictly on her head.

Anyway, I caught the pack of cigs whatever it was being delivered in the morning and confronted the brother about it, who was sorry, etc. Most importantly, I confronted her as to whether she knew anything about it and she straight up lied.
Now she's lying and deceitful about breaking her no dope commitment she made.

I didn’t deal with it for fear of having to bring up me recording the phones.
This is Enormous Mistake #3: failure to tell her the marriage is off as of right now due to her lying. You should have offered to help her move her stuff out.

A short time later, she discovered the recorder and her trust in me went out the window.
What???!!! HER trust went out the window? It's her who should have gone out the window. Seriously?

Over the years, I’ve brought up the incident, but she’s never admitted to the lie. I’ve apologized for what I did, whether I was right or wrong.
Guess what? This is Enormous Mistake #4. Extremely sycophantic, submissive behavior on your part to apologize for catching her conducting illegal felonious transactions at your house on your phone line. That is a massive sh!t test failure on your part. These 4 mistakes put your marriage upside down and demonstrated you to be a low value, weak male who doesn't know how to handle a woman. Yes, I know, it's easy to say on the internet, but it's still exactly what happened.

Fast forward through 10 years, we’ve had trust and closeness issues.
Of course, because you were constantly failing her sh!t tests and showing her you weren't man enough to ride herd on her.

Shes always felt that I haven’t shown interest in her, trust in her and a general laziness. And she’s been right.
I doubt it, but specifically how? Elaborate.

Theres been some times that I’ve shown a lack of trust in her with some things I’ve done,
She has proven she is not deserving of trust. She has proven herself to be a felonious, deceitful liar who is not to be trusted. WTH are you thinking?

and I made some really bad mistakes that hurt her and didn’t show respect for her and our marriage.
Give me some more examples besides the following.

For example, I was out of shape and she was in good shape.
Enormous Mistake #5. By doing this, you're demonstrating low value as a mate. Women are not attracted to men that other women are repelled by. A woman wants the highest value male she can get and if other women aren't telling her how hot or how cool or how sweet her husband is, she'll stop seeing that in him, unless it's there in spades.

I am much more lax and she is always doing something. One of the most regrettable is that for years, I would fall asleep on the couch and not with her.
You did this either because you didn't want to have sex or you already knew you weren't going to be getting any. Which one was it?

For me, I’ve always felt like the 3rd class citizen with her, behind the kids and the rest of her family. I’ve always felt left out, and not respected.
That's because she had no respect for you. Believe it or not, she figured you were desperate since you were willing to take in her even though she had a kid. Oddly, it's unattractive to women, even though they need you. Crazy, huh? Then you never stood up to her and thus you failed all her sh!t tests. I don't guess you were being hit on or checked on by many women when you were out together. I will also venture to guess that you broke all of The Sixteen Commandments.

In my line of business, I make very good money in a short amount of time and we live reasonably well, but I’ve never felt like she has ever shown me respect for that.
It doesn't matter when you have a crappy physique and you act spineless before her challenges. In her eyes, you're no more worthy of respect than she is worthy of trust. And believe me, she knows she's not worthy of your trust.

When I tried to clean the house or do something for her, I never seemed to meet her approval, so anything I did felt pointless.
You doing house work occasionally for her can be a turn on for her, in very limited doses. Too much and it's a huge turnoff. You won't get laid by being her maid.

I didn’t think going to bed with her was that important, and in fact did so sometimes out of spite for the way she was making me feel.
Maybe it would have been important to you if you were getting some. Failure to take what you have coming is a mark of a low value male. You consistently demonstrate lower value in the worthy mate department. Incidentally, she's no prize either.

The lack of trust from that first incident seems to have threads running through all these issues.
It does, just not in the way you think.


After a couple more kids, the past few years have gotten really intense with fights and especially with things she’s said to me. We tried counseling a couple times but it didn’t stick. Some things did get better, like me sleeping in the bed most of the time, but every time we had some big blow up, I or she would change a little bit for a little while, but would revert.
Too many failed sh!t tests, constant demonstration of low value as a mating partner on your part equals a high level of contempt directed at you from her end. She's a fraud and a liar, for her part. That's not going to lead to a happy marriage for anybody. The marriage should never have taken place after you caught her doping and lying about it.

There have been a couple of physical incidents, 3 on her end and one on mine. The worst of which was her screwing up my ear with a punch to it.
How did that play out? Did she plead guilty to domestic assault? What was the sentence? Probation?

She also started using the D word every argument, even threatening the 10 year rule (might be a CA thing) about 1 year ago.
Based on her character as revealed in this post, that may have been the plan all along.

Two days after I got back is when I got the “I’m done and don’t want to do anything about it”.
They copulated enough without rubbers that she fluid bonded. Semen contains chemicals that elevate mood in women when absorbed vaginally or sublingually into the bloodstream. She got well and truly plowed and she liked it. That's a demonstration of higher value on the part of her paramour.

And I’ve been in the guest room and in hell ever since.
Another demonstration of emasculated submission and low sex rank. She wants a divorce, she can move to the guest room.

I went straight into counseling (as we had planned) and really made the decision to change how I did things around the house and for myself
The first thing you've done right in this post.

(I lost 50 pounds in 2 months working out almost every day).
The second thing you've done right. Keep working out, but every day is not a very good way to build mass. You want a waist of 30 or 32, measured right under the ribs and a chest of 42 or higher. This is the 1.4:1 chest to waist ratio that kicks off the females limbic system. It's called The Golden Ratio. What's your workout, day by day?

She went to about 3 counseling sessions, walking out on the 3rd because she didn’t like what the pastor had to say.
No surprises there. What brand of Christian are you? Does she claim to be one, too?

I think she just wants someone who will agree with her. She has seemed like she has been on the fence over it at times, but has kept it up.

It got worse in the beginning of December when I found out there’s another guy involved.
Because of her nature, I seriously doubt this is her first paramour. You need to DNA the two kids you think you fathered. Don't dawdle on this, do it now. And make sure she knows you're doing it.

She has stayed overnight at his house 4 or 5 times. Hes a scumbag from the gym. I discovered it accidentally as I ran into him one night at a bar and he started crude talk about someone who sounded like my wife. It wasn’t hard finding his name and looking him up on the internet. One night my wife left the house to “go to her sisters” and sure enough, her car was in his driveway when I drove to his house.
How long did it take the fire department to put the fire out? Did they get out alive?

My pastor had me hold off on confronting her for about a week and a half.
Huh? WTH was your preacher thinking?

Finally, after one full night and one weekend of her staying with this guy, I had to drop the hammer. She lied
You knew she was a liar before you even married her. Why is this not expected?

until I named the guy and his address. Then she went from saying that there was nothing wrong with it to “it is an affair” (she is denying that they have had sex). Shes now back to hes just a friend and there’s nothing wrong with it. She has done nothing but lie about it to everyone.
Not to be redundant, but she's been a liar from the start.

Christmas was horrible. I have given her ample opportunity to change this
Enormous Mistake #42. You should have bagged her stuff and dumped it on OM's lawn.

but she spent the night with him last Saturday night. I have turned a bit of a corner in that I have changed my stance from being the husband who is trying to show her I’m changed to the husband who has made an internal change, but will not be walked on anymore.
That's the third thing you've done right. This is where you should have been over the dope deal ten years ago.

I’m just heartbroken though, between my kids telling me they don’t want mom and dad to split up (she has been selfishly talking to them behind my back about divorce and subtly blaming me)
She's a bad person and always was. She always saw you as a meal ticket and nothing else. DNA the younger two.

and the loss of something that is totally fixable.
You're fixable, since you are now seeing things clearly for the first time. I'm not sure she's fixable.

Believe it or not, I still want to try to fix things, though I know I cant guarantee that I will forgive her or want her back now or in the future. But I know it is right for me to try.
Why do you feel that way? For the kids? Make sure they're yours before you knock yourself out. Anyway, kids do better coming from an intact two parent household, so it's honorable to at least make the attempt.

The other factor though is that she could very well be playing me to get past our 10 year before filing the divorce,
You said she's made that abundantly clear verbally in the past. Do you need an engraved statement of intent?

plus I’m at the point where I cant have any self respect anymore and continue to put up with her behavior.
The self respect ship sailed when you let her skate on the drug deal. And many other times in this narrative.

I think I’m going to file a separation in the next day or two.
Forget that. File for Divorce. I'm dead serious, there is nothing to be gained from separation. If she comes crawling on all fours and with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, you can stop it. If you want to.

I know this is long, so I’ll end it. Any advice, thoughts and prayers would be appreciated. I feel a tiny bit better being able to air this out, but I am devastated inside at the prospect of this absolute nightmare.
Is she still in the house or has she moved in with OM yet?
 

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Don't get too pissed off when you read this (it's very harsh medicine), because if you follow up on these observations, suggestions, and reading list, it will serve you very well, either in your next relationship or even in this one in the unlikely event your wife should come crawling back for some reason. Before you read what follows, take a look at the Male Hierarchy and see where you fall. Remember, most women are not truly attracted to most men, even though most men are attracted to most women. All the blame is on her, and that includes the taped conversation incident.



Well, it's a little late for me to point this out, but getting with a single mother is usually not a good thing for a young man. Fine for an old geezer, but not a young man on his first marriage. All young men in your position need to very carefully consider whether or not they are being roped in as a so-called "beta-provider" to raise the spawn of the "bad-boy" who knocked up and abandoned the mother. The "bad boy" was a guy she got super turned on by, as for you, not so much. Perversely, the vary fact that you were willing to marry her, causes you to lose value in her eyes. Enormous Mistake #1.



When you're saying your prayers tonight, thank the Good Lord above that this did not play out. Even if you get back with her, don't adopt the spawn. It's not the kid's fault, but it's not your fault either. ¿Comprende?



I'll go out on a limb guessing her opinion of your purpose in life was to shut up and pay the bills and your occasional reward for doing so was some less than smokin' hot mercy sex.



This is beating a dead horse, but that's not the best place to find a wife. Fun for the evening is one thing, but getting entangled for life with kids and finances and half your future earnings, not so much. I was a lead guitarist back in the day when that meant something, so I met a lot of women in bars. I sure didn't get my wife from one, and especially not from behind the bar. Enormous Mistake #2.



Stop right there. She's violating the rules of your house and the agreed upon terms of your relationship, which in this case is no dope. She is in the wrong and needs to be reigned in. She also demonstrated that she is not to be trusted and doesn't keep her commitments. I know, water over the dam, but anything that follows on from this incident is strictly on her head.



Now she's lying and deceitful about breaking her no dope commitment she made.



This is Enormous Mistake #3: failure to tell her the marriage is off as of right now due to her lying. You should have offered to help her move her stuff out.



What???!!! HER trust went out the window? It's her who should have gone out the window. Seriously?



Guess what? This is Enormous Mistake #4. Extremely sycophantic, submissive behavior on your part to apologize for catching her conducting illegal felonious transactions at your house on your phone line. That is a massive sh!t test failure on your part. These 4 mistakes put your marriage upside down and demonstrated you to be a low value, weak male who doesn't know how to handle a woman. Yes, I know, it's easy to say on the internet, but it's still exactly what happened.



Of course, because you were constantly failing her sh!t tests and showing her you weren't man enough to ride herd on her.



I doubt it, but specifically how? Elaborate.



She has proven she is not deserving of trust. She has proven herself to be a felonious, deceitful liar who is not to be trusted. WTH are you thinking?



Give me some more examples besides the following.



Enormous Mistake #5. By doing this, you're demonstrating low value as a mate. Women are not attracted to men that other women are repelled by. A woman wants the highest value male she can get and if other women aren't telling her how hot or how cool or how sweet her husband is, she'll stop seeing that in him, unless it's there in spades.



You did this either because you didn't want to have sex or you already knew you weren't going to be getting any. Which one was it?



That's because she had no respect for you. Believe it or not, she figured you were desperate since you were willing to take in her even though she had a kid. Oddly, it's unattractive to women, even though they need you. Crazy, huh? Then you never stood up to her and thus you failed all her sh!t tests. I don't guess you were being hit on or checked on by many women when you were out together. I will also venture to guess that you broke all of The Sixteen Commandments.



It doesn't matter when you have a crappy physique and you act spineless before her challenges. In her eyes, you're no more worthy of respect than she is worthy of trust. And believe me, she knows she's not worthy of your trust.



You doing house work occasionally for her can be a turn on for her, in very limited doses. Too much and it's a huge turnoff. You won't get laid by being her maid.



Maybe it would have been important to you if you were getting some. Failure to take what you have coming is a mark of a low value male. You consistently demonstrate lower value in the worthy mate department. Incidentally, she's no prize either.



It does, just not in the way you think.




Too many failed sh!t tests, constant demonstration of low value as a mating partner on your part equals a high level of contempt directed at you from her end. She's a fraud and a liar, for her part. That's not going to lead to a happy marriage for anybody. The marriage should never have taken place after you caught her doping and lying about it.



How did that play out? Did she plead guilty to domestic assault? What was the sentence? Probation?



Based on her character as revealed in this post, that may have been the plan all along.



They copulated enough without rubbers that she fluid bonded. Semen contains chemicals that elevate mood in women when absorbed vaginally or sublingually into the bloodstream. She got well and truly plowed and she liked it. That's a demonstration of higher value on the part of her paramour.



Another demonstration of emasculated submission and low sex rank. She wants a divorce, she can move to the guest room.



The first thing you've done right in this post.



The second thing you've done right. Keep working out, but every day is not a very good way to build mass. You want a waist of 30 or 32, measured right under the ribs and a chest of 42 or higher. This is the 1.4:1 chest to waist ratio that kicks off the females limbic system. It's called The Golden Ratio. What's your workout, day by day?



No surprises there. What brand of Christian are you? Does she claim to be one, too?



Because of her nature, I seriously doubt this is her first paramour. You need to DNA the two kids you think you fathered. Don't dawdle on this, do it now. And make sure she knows you're doing it.



How long did it take the fire department to put the fire out? Did they get out alive?



Huh? WTH was your preacher thinking?



You knew she was a liar before you even married her. Why is this not expected?



Not to be redundant, but she's been a liar from the start.



Enormous Mistake #42. You should have bagged her stuff and dumped it on OM's lawn.



That's the third thing you've done right. This is where you should have been over the dope deal ten years ago.



She's a bad person and always was. She always saw you as a meal ticket and nothing else. DNA the younger two.



You're fixable, since you are now seeing things clearly for the first time. I'm not sure she's fixable.



Why do you feel that way? For the kids? Make sure they're yours before you knock yourself out. Anyway, kids do better coming from an intact two parent household, so it's honorable to at least make the attempt.



You said she's made that abundantly clear verbally in the past. Do you need an engraved statement of intent?



The self respect ship sailed when you let her skate on the drug deal. And many other times in this narrative.



Forget that. File for Divorce. I'm dead serious, there is nothing to be gained from separation. If she comes crawling on all fours and with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, you can stop it. If you want to.



Is she still in the house or has she moved in with OM yet?
Read the above 3 times. Then read it again. Good god at least cut her off financially.
 

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Don't get too pissed off when you read this (it's very harsh medicine), because if you follow up on these observations, suggestions, and reading list, it will serve you very well, either in your next relationship or even in this one in the unlikely event your wife should come crawling back for some reason. Before you read what follows, take a look at the Male Hierarchy and see where you fall. Remember, most women are not truly attracted to most men, even though most men are attracted to most women. All the blame is on her, and that includes the taped conversation incident.



Well, it's a little late for me to point this out, but getting with a single mother is usually not a good thing for a young man. Fine for an old geezer, but not a young man on his first marriage. All young men in your position need to very carefully consider whether or not they are being roped in as a so-called "beta-provider" to raise the spawn of the "bad-boy" who knocked up and abandoned the mother. The "bad boy" was a guy she got super turned on by, as for you, not so much. Perversely, the vary fact that you were willing to marry her, causes you to lose value in her eyes. Enormous Mistake #1.

I can see your point on this a bit. However, and as you point out in your overall post, I definitely handled this all wrong from the beginning. I definitely acted weak from the beginning. I know many marriages where someone married a single parent and they have worked out well. Had I handled things differently, we could be looking at a different situation.

When you're saying your prayers tonight, thank the Good Lord above that this did not play out. Even if you get back with her, don't adopt the spawn. It's not the kid's fault, but it's not your fault either. ¿Comprende?

Have to disagree with you on this one. Yes, it may not be my fault either, but I've made the commitment to him. I'm an adult and became dad with my eyes wide open. I would be honored for him to eventually have my last name.



I'll go out on a limb guessing her opinion of your purpose in life was to shut up and pay the bills and your occasional reward for doing so was some less than smokin' hot mercy sex.

Not entirely, but I think there was a little of that.


This is beating a dead horse, but that's not the best place to find a wife. Fun for the evening is one thing, but getting entangled for life with kids and finances and half your future earnings, not so much. I was a lead guitarist back in the day when that meant something, so I met a lot of women in bars. I sure didn't get my wife from one, and especially not from behind the bar. Enormous Mistake #2.

Its not the best place, correct. But she did completely change her life around from the bar scene party type to a cub scout den mom. This is the first time she has ever shown any reversion back to her previously married self.

Stop right there. She's violating the rules of your house and the agreed upon terms of your relationship, which in this case is no dope. She is in the wrong and needs to be reigned in. She also demonstrated that she is not to be trusted and doesn't keep her commitments. I know, water over the dam, but anything that follows on from this incident is strictly on her head.

Correct, and this should have been dealt with from a position of strength on my part then. Whichever way it went from that point would have set the rules and likely drastically changed the conduct of myself and her throughout the marriage should we have still ended up getting married.

Now she's lying and deceitful about breaking her no dope commitment she made.



This is Enormous Mistake #3: failure to tell her the marriage is off as of right now due to her lying. You should have offered to help her move her stuff out.



What???!!! HER trust went out the window? It's her who should have gone out the window. Seriously?


Guess what? This is Enormous Mistake #4. Extremely sycophantic, submissive behavior on your part to apologize for catching her conducting illegal felonious transactions at your house on your phone line. That is a massive sh!t test failure on your part. These 4 mistakes put your marriage upside down and demonstrated you to be a low value, weak male who doesn't know how to handle a woman. Yes, I know, it's easy to say on the internet, but it's still exactly what happened.

The above 4 points I think have been addressed with me handling the situation differently.


Of course, because you were constantly failing her sh!t tests and showing her you weren't man enough to ride herd on her.



I doubt it, but specifically how? Elaborate.

Staying up til 1-2am, playing video games, sleeping it til noon, not cleaning up after myself much, etc. In my line of work, I go from extremely high stress months, 7 days a week, 20 hours a day, to several months off with nothing. Yeah, I make alot of money in those few months to live on well for 2 years, but I should have done more with her and the kids in those months off. I just shut down and dont want to do anything, the motivation is extremely low.

She has proven she is not deserving of trust. She has proven herself to be a felonious, deceitful liar who is not to be trusted. WTH are you thinking?

There were some incidents that were kinda stupid, like following her to a bar when she was hanging out with cub scout moms (I knew she was hanging out with them). There were just some dumb incidents that really didnt need to happen.

Give me some more examples besides the following.

As hinted earlier, shes a neat freak, I'm the opposite. I could and should have shown her more respect by cleaning up after myself, cleaning up my office (she really hated that one), go to the gym with her, etc. Especially in my "off" time. Those things showed a general lack of respect for her. Now I'm sure you might say that she didnt deserve it because of the fact that I shouldnt have trusted her, etc. But these are things I still should have done.

Enormous Mistake #5. By doing this, you're demonstrating low value as a mate. Women are not attracted to men that other women are repelled by. A woman wants the highest value male she can get and if other women aren't telling her how hot or how cool or how sweet her husband is, she'll stop seeing that in him, unless it's there in spades.

Already addressed

You did this either because you didn't want to have sex or you already knew you weren't going to be getting any. Which one was it?

Probably a mixture of both for the most part.

That's because she had no respect for you. Believe it or not, she figured you were desperate since you were willing to take in her even though she had a kid. Oddly, it's unattractive to women, even though they need you. Crazy, huh? Then you never stood up to her and thus you failed all her sh!t tests. I don't guess you were being hit on or checked on by many women when you were out together. I will also venture to guess that you broke all of The Sixteen Commandments.

At the time we met at the bar, I was actually a little on the, well lets say player side of things. I was "dating" 2 of the other bartenders and 4 of the regulars there, and she knew about all of them.

It doesn't matter when you have a crappy physique and you act spineless before her challenges. In her eyes, you're no more worthy of respect than she is worthy of trust. And believe me, she knows she's not worthy of your trust.



You doing house work occasionally for her can be a turn on for her, in very limited doses. Too much and it's a huge turnoff. You won't get laid by being her maid.



Maybe it would have been important to you if you were getting some. Failure to take what you have coming is a mark of a low value male. You consistently demonstrate lower value in the worthy mate department. Incidentally, she's no prize either.



It does, just not in the way you think.




Too many failed sh!t tests, constant demonstration of low value as a mating partner on your part equals a high level of contempt directed at you from her end. She's a fraud and a liar, for her part. That's not going to lead to a happy marriage for anybody. The marriage should never have taken place after you caught her doping and lying about it.



How did that play out? Did she plead guilty to domestic assault? What was the sentence? Probation?

No, I let her off.

Based on her character as revealed in this post, that may have been the plan all along.



They copulated enough without rubbers that she fluid bonded. Semen contains chemicals that elevate mood in women when absorbed vaginally or sublingually into the bloodstream. She got well and truly plowed and she liked it. That's a demonstration of higher value on the part of her paramour.

Ok

Another demonstration of emasculated submission and low sex rank. She wants a divorce, she can move to the guest room.



The first thing you've done right in this post.



The second thing you've done right. Keep working out, but every day is not a very good way to build mass. You want a waist of 30 or 32, measured right under the ribs and a chest of 42 or higher. This is the 1.4:1 chest to waist ratio that kicks off the females limbic system. It's called The Golden Ratio. What's your workout, day by day?

Right now I'm getting the excess fat off. I'll worry about a ratio at some other point.

No surprises there. What brand of Christian are you? Does she claim to be one, too?

Evangelical. She did...

Because of her nature, I seriously doubt this is her first paramour. You need to DNA the two kids you think you fathered. Don't dawdle on this, do it now. And make sure she knows you're doing it.

Definitely disagree with you on this one as well, and I take strong exception to this along with the adoption recommendation above. These are kids, whether they're mine biologically or not is irrelevant. I am their father and they are my sons regardless. Parent child relationships transcend DNA. Sorry, there is no higher honor than for me to be their dad, and I'm not going to take some DNA test to try and find out some irrelevant fact at this point. If she got pregnant now, yes. But these are my boys and I will fight tooth and nail for all three of them.

How long did it take the fire department to put the fire out? Did they get out alive?

If I wasnt able to get a hold of my dad that night, that might have been a possibility.

Huh? WTH was your preacher thinking?

It actually played out pretty good. The week and a half actually gave me enough ammunition to really nail her down.

You knew she was a liar before you even married her. Why is this not expected?



Not to be redundant, but she's been a liar from the start.



Enormous Mistake #42. You should have bagged her stuff and dumped it on OM's lawn.

Believe me, I had that planned out. However, you must not be very in tuned to the legal profession. That would have been a bad idea for future legal proceedings.

That's the third thing you've done right. This is where you should have been over the dope deal ten years ago.



She's a bad person and always was. She always saw you as a meal ticket and nothing else. DNA the younger two.

Already addressed.

You're fixable, since you are now seeing things clearly for the first time. I'm not sure she's fixable.



Why do you feel that way? For the kids? Make sure they're yours before you knock yourself out. Anyway, kids do better coming from an intact two parent household, so it's honorable to at least make the attempt.

They're mine.

You said she's made that abundantly clear verbally in the past. Do you need an engraved statement of intent?

That would be nice

The self respect ship sailed when you let her skate on the drug deal. And many other times in this narrative.

I know

Forget that. File for Divorce. I'm dead serious, there is nothing to be gained from separation. If she comes crawling on all fours and with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, you can stop it. If you want to.

There is something to be gained. My integrity and self respect and a little something for my kids. I am going to give her every opportunity and I'm not going to be the one to end it. I'm sure she'll respond with a divorce, so that'll happen anyway. But whether you think I'm nuts or not, I will feel better about myself and how I've conducted myself throughout this entire process (the last 2 months). I've given every opportunity to at least try and make this work. I'm not letting myself get bent over by letting this go on in terpetuity, but I am moving forward in cutting this off while leaving the door open for the possibility of reconciliation. Whatever the range of opinions are about her, she's still my kids' mother, and when they are of the proper age, I will be able to teach them about commitment and showing some self respect. I can tell we have different philosophies on things like this.

Is she still in the house or has she moved in with OM yet?
Yes. Believe me, if I could have thrown her out, I would have.

I generally appreciate your brash comments and points in your post. I agree that I have definitely acted weakly in many ways from the start. But I disagree with some of your approaches to some of this, especially in regards to the kids.

I suspect we have very differing personalities, but I take alot of pride in not being the aggressive type. Granted I've been quite a bit too passive in this relationship especially.

Thank you for taking the time to give me some pointed advice and things to think about!
 

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She isn't going to own up to any of her deceit. From the very beginning you have evidence of this.

She knew you recorded a conversation, yet she denies she lied about it? Or worse, just gas lights you that the fact you covertly recorded her renders her bad behavior moot.

Do not adopt her son. Love him if you want, play the father role, but do not adopt. As soon as the adoption is final she will kick you out of your marital home, file for divorce and have 1 more child for you to pay child support on.

Have her served with divorce papers when she is staying at OM place. Maybe she will stay with him and you can get full custody of the kids.
 

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The thing is you can throw her out. Yes she can legally get back in. But its the point. She is blaming you. Your kids also need to know their mom has a boyfriend and is breaking up the family. Unfortunately you cannot protect them from this.

The best thing is when she goes out with him change the locks. Put some of her stuff in a black garbage bag on the porch. Let her call the police and make a scene. Hold your ground until they make you let her in. Keep a VAR on you anytime she is around you. She is likely to try and get you out of the house by claiming abuse. Try to geta PO against her.

Up to this point your wife and her boyfriend ahve made you their b!tch.

There doesn't seem to be much fight in you, I hope I am wrong. You are in a war now.

Time for the 180: The Healing Heart: The 180

Originally Posted by marduk
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!
 

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In its most simplest form, until the Om is out of the picture...completely, no "friends crap" or any other bullcrap...you are screwed and should act accordingly.

So cut her off ask her to leave and file. these tactics will show your wife how confident you are in etting her go there by making her think twice about her choices.

Your tough love approach is the only tactic that will make her second guess her choices. As you can see the nice guy crap, best husband every thing doesn't work.

So play hard ball, and give her what she wants by letting her go.....the only tactic that will show your wife the reality of her disicions.

Two thing will start to happen the affair will lose it excitment after it is exposed and the newness will fade as the day to dat of real life sets in on this affair. Second, your confidence and your smile will show her that she is for sure losing you and and the stress of being on her own will also stress the affair .....the POS will have the problem now and will bail cuz the thrill is gone and he got what he wanted and the drama is not worth the reward.

So #1 rule make the affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible! once the Om is out ...completely out of the picture and you wife hates him then you can work on the marriage.

Get it?
 

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Remember these tactic are just perceptions of how confident you are in letting her go.

So asking here to leave is again a statement in it self. She won't leave she has it made a boyfriend on the side and a husband paying the bills.

Again you can emotionally distance your self. Making it uncomfortable to be home. So start showing the indifference your old lady needs to see that tells her you are confident enou to let her go.

You need to to finacially stress this affair buy cutting her off. Sure its a pain in the @ss to do all the grocery shopping but again a tactic that will show her you can and will take care of bussiness with or with out her. Cut her cell off sure it sucks ...she needs contact with the kids but after all she can put her big girl pants on and pay her own way.

Untils she faces consequences she will continue.
 

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Expose this affair.

Find the OM family and contact them asking for there supprt for your marriage.

Remember the madder your wife gets the better job you are doing by making the affair difficult to continue.


Take your kids and drop them off at OM house the next time she is over there. Tell your wife you have plans and she needs to watch them.

There are alot of tactic you have at your disposal to make this affair inconviennet and uncomfortable.
 

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I think your front door lock is broken you might need to change it out...and ya "don't forget to give your wife the new key"!!!!!!

Again just another tactic to get her thinking!!!! Especially if it takes you a few days to get a key made...he he he
 

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Why don't you bag all her cloths and take them over to the OM house?

I'm sure you thought she abandon the family and if you were mistaken then you can always bring them back.. help her unpack back at the house? a simple mis understanding, I'm sure!!!
 

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Definitely disagree with you on this one as well, and I take strong exception to this along with the adoption recommendation above. These are kids, whether they're mine biologically or not is irrelevant. I am their father and they are my sons regardless. Parent child relationships transcend DNA. Sorry, there is no higher honor than for me to be their dad, and I'm not going to take some DNA test to try and find out some irrelevant fact at this point. If she got pregnant now, yes. But these are my boys and I will fight tooth and nail for all three of them.
Ok, get down off your horse white knight. You need to understand why you are advised to do these things.

First of all, her son is not yours. Accept it. When you divorce the court is not going to give a damn how much you love him or if you helped raise him. He's not of your DNA and you didn't adopt him.

Second, you DNA test the other two children is for a few reasons. The first is shock and awe. You need her to have an "oh sh!t!" moment and say to herself "this guy is serious." Right now by your own admission she sees you as a chump. You need to turn that around fast. You also DNA test them to find out if she has had other affairs and tried to pass of other men's children as belonging to you. That would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that she has used you throughout the entire marriage and there is no marriage to save. Finally, if she did do the above and the other children are not yours that would greatly enhance your position during a divorce. At that point the only concern you should have is keeping as much of your stuff as you can.

Frankly the only reason I can see for not doing DNA tests is if you don't want to know the truth or you already do know the truth and don't want to face it.
 
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