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Sounds like you are intimating that you NEED a therapist for yourself. You have questions that you cannot get answers and are having trouble with compacting the issues concerning your marriage and relationship view in general....Right?

Since you cannot get into your wife's world right now. It may be a great time to look "inward" and find out more about yourself and what your needs and wants are....
 

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If she is being honest in what she's saying is the basic idea of the problem (no emotional connection), then yes it would be in her interest for her therapist to elaborate what made her feel like that, what things could change her view etc.

If the real reason there's a problem is different then that would explain why the therapist can't share with me, as you and @FrenchFry are implying. That's what I meant in the final paragraph of that post "Right now this is just reinforcing my feeling that there is some serious issue which my wife doesn't want me to be told about like CSA, so the therapist decided there's no point hearing my POV as that needs to be dealt with first." I.e. something private like CSA would explain both why the therapist can't tell me whats going on, and also why there's no point her hearing my point of view.
Hey @georgieporgie, can you shed some light on your relationship with your wife?

1. What do you typically argue about?
2. When's the most upset you've ever seen your wife?
3. How does she typically respond in disagreements between you?
4. Has she ever indicated specific things she'd like you to do/do differently (besides the vague "emotional connection")?
5. What about you, what are your least favourite characteristics of your wife?
 

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Just on one point of this: Tell both your wife and by extension her dad, that giving a diagnosis without actually having a session with a patient, and conveying your thoughts to people who are NOT THE PATIENT is both unethical and reportable. Tell them that this person is going to be reported to their local association, and that YOUR WIFE AND HER FATHER ARE AT FAULT. Let the psych know that this has been done. Sure she will shut her cake hole PDQ, and have a dirty word with your wife and her father.

As to your wife: She puts in a half assed effort. She is morbidly obese, and can't seem to stick to something. Well, I'm sorry, but she needs a fire built under her ass. I am not saying to divorce, however, she has not seen any consequence to her actions. Since her dad lives nearby, and your requests are treated in a half-hearted manner, then why not ask her to leave. Give her a short term separation. Your reasons for doing so? Well, when you explicitly ask for her discretion, and she tells her dad behind your back? That is a betrayal. She tells a shrink about you and suggests a diagnosis? That is a betrayal. She suggests that your actions put you on the spectrum? (I would have asked her to leave that second and told her of my desire to divorce in that second-I would then get evil pleasure by saying that she is a WHALE OF A GIRL-I know I am patently evil, but do not fu ck me over, I will get you back) (PS-I had a client in this situation, and she talked and complained bitterly behind his back...until he started telling her secrets to her friends and family, lies she told, secrets she kept, opinions she never wanted known...shortly, nobody was talking to her, then he told her mother about a previous serious boyfriend who was not of her race, and an abortion...he mortified and embarrassed her to the highest degree possible, and she recognized that what she did to him, came back in spades)
 

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Discussion Starter · #104 ·
Hey @georgieporgie, can you shed some light on your relationship with your wife?...
Wow that's actually a really clever way of approaching this. My first thought when I read your post was OK I'm not doing that, but you're right his could help. OK here goes:

1. What do you typically argue about?
We disagree about plenty of things.
  • How to bring up the kids, e.g. she wanted to buy a very expensive present for our son recently and I said it cost too much and wasn't his birthday or anything and our house is already stuffed full of toys.
  • How to spend money generally, I'm the miser who tries to keep us out of overdraft.
  • A common source of disagreement is me looking at things logically and her looking at them emotionally, for example before we went to the doctor about her anxiety, my wife thought the symptoms she experienced indicated Multiple sclerosis, and was in her mind almost up to thinking about where she should be buried. Whereas I said how likely is it that these common symptoms in a young lady are due to MS.
However I want to stress that these disagreements don't normally end up as an argument. Normally one of us just says OK fine, sometimes me sometimes her. These are pretty standard sources of disagreement in marriage, and we normally manage it like normal couples. Its only when she's been pressing my buttons that it turns into a proper argument. So you could say that arguments are caused by lack of intimacy, gossiping etc, even though they aren't about those things.

2. When's the most upset you've ever seen your wife?
I emailed her therapist that I was considering going to discuss divorce with someone who knows the ins and outs of it, and could the therapist please state what exactly my wife was complaining of, so that I could show her reply to this person. Because I don't like going behind my wife's back (as I hate it when she does it to me), I have a rule that I always show her emails about our marriage. She seemed pretty upset at the time at the thought of divorce. Although right now our marriage is not really functioning as we've hardly spent any time together recently, and she seems very happy with that, I believe happier than when the marriage is functioning normally... which indicates that she wants to be in a dysfunctional marriage...

3. How does she typically respond in disagreements between you?
When neither of us compromise, she has this really annoying line she picked up from a previous counsellor which she always says with an air of great triumph: "OK that's what you think, but in a marriage there are two people so..." The trouble is this is supposed to be used to first validate and then suggest we should try to compromise or find common ground, but I find she uses it to imply I'm strange (read: not like her family) and that things have to be done her way.

4. Has she ever indicated specific things she'd like you to do/do differently (besides the vague "emotional connection")?
Well there's the things we disagree about which I mentioned. Apart from that, no.

5. What about you, what are your least favourite characteristics of your wife?
The points mentioned in my original post are top on that list (withholding intimacy, gossiping, lack of self control with dieting and exercising). The "typical disagreements" list also come up on this list, though not as high as the other things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
Sounds like you are intimating that you NEED a therapist for yourself. You have questions that you cannot get answers and are having trouble with compacting the issues concerning your marriage and relationship view in general....Right?

Since you cannot get into your wife's world right now. It may be a great time to look "inward" and find out more about yourself and what your needs and wants are....
I think we need a therapist for the marriage. Someone who can understand whats bothering her and explain it to me. A personal therapist for myself may help me deal with the results of the situation, but not to solve the actual problem. I think I'm aware of what my needs and wants are, the problem is I'm unaware of my wife's, and my wife is acting unaware of mine.
Unfortunately A) my wife has stopped the therapy and only seems to want to get an autism diagnosis now; B) Given that she didn't keep her agreements in therapy at all, it seems a little silly from my point of view to continue. So its not looking very likely that will happen...
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
Just on one point of this: Tell both your wife and by extension her dad, that giving a diagnosis without actually having a session with a patient, and conveying your thoughts to people who are NOT THE PATIENT is both unethical and reportable. Tell them that this person is going to be reported to their local association, and that YOUR WIFE AND HER FATHER ARE AT FAULT. Let the psych know that this has been done. Sure she will shut her cake hole PDQ, and have a dirty word with your wife and her father.
Thats a fun idea... but are you sure its reportable. They described me to the psychologist who said I should come in to be evaluated as it sounds like I'm on the autism spectrum. I don't think he said anything for sure... besides I expect client confidentiality only extends to the client, I've never been his client.

Its like all those psychologists who voiced concern over whether Trump is an "extremely stable genius". They a) didn't say definitively; b) he wasn't their client. So although I'm sure it was very unpleasant for him, I'd imagine he doesn't have cause to report them.
 

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It is absolutely reportable, and she could face censure for this. No professional would lower themselves to giving an opinion without first doing the due diligence. Georgie, find out which association she belongs to, and give them a call. Subsequent to that , tell your wife and her father that the result of their actions is that their little friend is going to be out of business for awhile. Let the shrink know that you reported her. I had a similar situation with another accountant who was spouting to one of my clients, that he was positive that I had made a gigantic error in the person's books. I went to my client and said that if there was an error, I would eat my fee, if there was no error, then the other ******* would pay my fee five times over. The ******* met my challenge, and then when it was apparent that I was correct, he tried to back out. NO FU CKING WAY SHlT-FOR-BRAINS. My fee for this client was $10K, I made this other prick pay me $50K. He was trying to poach a client, and I proved he was an idiot, and now a poor idiot.

Never should a pro with a reputation make pronouncements unless they can back it up. If this woman made that pronouncement to your wife and her father, then she should lose her license to practice. Furthermore, tell your wife and her daddy dearest to go fu ck themselves! You are not a topic of discussion in any event. Tell daddy that the next time you hear that he has talked behind your back, you will kick his nuts so hard it will look like he is wearing earrings, tell this to him in your wife's presence. Tell her that if she does not bite her wh0re's tongue, she will find it difficult to speak in divorce court. I had a BIL who loved to talk behind my back. I warned him and warned him. He thought it was funny to cast aspersions on my sexuality. He did not know that I knew his dirty little secret. So, it comes back to me that he was calling me gay. The person who told me, was given another little piece of gossip. I told him of the time I had to go to the local cop shop to bail the shlt out of jail, he was arrested for public masturbation. He was sitting at a traffic light with it out of his pants jerking madly, until some woman caught it, screamed and the police were there before he could flee. (Hard to do that when everyone saw the make model and license on your car).

Soooooo, my wife gets a rather, shall we say, belligerent call; How dare I tell his dirty little secret. She looks at me, "Why did you do this to my brother?" I said, simply this; I am tired of him thinking that he can get over on me by impugning my reputation, calling me homosexual, and generally trying to make me into a laughingstock. Nobody is laughing at me now, are they? She didn't believe that he was going around calling me gay. She made a quick call to a mutual friend, who asked her where the hell she has been when I am in the same room as her brother? Did you not hear the remarks about your husband sucking ****? Did you not hear the remark about taking it up the ass? We wanted to know how a wife can stand there and ignore the shlt being thrown at her husband? She was flummoxed. She was in her own little world while I was verbally assaulted. She said she had no idea. Her mother called demanding an apology, and I told her that when he tears his **** off jerking in public I will say I am sorry. Then the ******* calls. My wife tears him a new one over the phone. He demands that I apologise, so I said at the next family dinner in front of everyone, "Gee I'm sorry that you have to jerk off in public, I guess your wife hasn't given up her gorilla sized cu nt to you in a while, guess self abuse is better than your wife!" My FIL nearly shlt himself laughing. My BIL left. His wife left. My MIL was pissed that I made fun of her precious little boy. He got a warning that next time he opens his mouth, I will be sending a long letter to his employers with a copy of his conviction. See how that plays out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #108 · (Edited)
I am not saying to divorce, however, she has not seen any consequence to her actions. Since her dad lives nearby, and your requests are treated in a half-hearted manner, then why not ask her to leave. Give her a short term separation. Your reasons for doing so? Well, when you explicitly ask for her discretion, and she tells her dad behind your back? That is a betrayal. She tells a shrink about you and suggests a diagnosis? That is a betrayal. She suggests that your actions put you on the spectrum? I would have asked her to leave that second and told her of my desire to divorce in that second
After thinking about it for a while I'm inclined to think you're right. Its very nice thinking about whats bothering her and trying to work on it etc as many people here have suggested (@Keke24, @Anon Pink and @anastasia6 main culprits). But on the other hand the way she handled it wasn't OK. So as well as trying to improve so she'll be happy, there also need to be some clear result of her actions. She's been told countless times these are red lines for me, and she could've handled the situation in a way I'd've found OK, e.g. telling me she wants to see a new marriage counsellor, we'd go to one who was a proper psychologist and see what he says without going behind my back and getting me pre-diagnosed. She chose to handle it a way which completely trampled on me, and is pretty much a betrayal as you wrote. So its great to be compassionate and understanding, but it needs to be backed up with something or it will just happen again.

The thing is it needs to be backed up with something which doesn't punish me more. A separation would be pretty embarrassing for me, whereas for her she would be able to bask in the attention and pity. Sure it would be unpleasant for her, but it'd be worse for me.

Any suggestions for some other forms of consequence? And what does everyone else think about the suggestion in general?
 

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Wait....didn't you say that this was an "arranged" marriage? I'm sure with culture differences and all I am misunderstanding the nuances of it all...No offense. But She lets herself go and is "morbidly obese" and then she has a depression type thing going on and then the problems with sex...

Why are you with her now? And separation is embarrassing to you? Maybe you can fill in some of the blanks I'm not seeing here.
 

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After thinking about it for a while I'm inclined to think you're right. Its very nice thinking about whats bothering her and trying to work on it etc as many people here have suggested (@Keke24, @Anon Pink and @anastasia6 main culprits). But on the other
You hate people going behind your back so you let your wife know ahead of time you were emailing HER therapist your request AND that it included words of divorce right?

And many doctors give standard not opinions.
You call up and say hey I've been ill, achy running a high fever and I'm exhausted many doctors will say sounds like the flu but come on so I can check it out. That's not malpractice.

But hey as I said sounds like you want out so get out.

As a culprit around here I'm getting out🖐 Bye bye. Hope you and your wife find ways of being happy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #111 ·
Wait....didn't you say that this was an "arranged" marriage? I'm sure with culture differences and all I am misunderstanding the nuances of it all...No offense. But She lets herself go and is "morbidly obese" and then she has a depression type thing going on and then the problems with sex...

Why are you with her now? And separation is embarrassing to you? Maybe you can fill in some of the blanks I'm not seeing here.
Yes, as you guessed these things are all down to culture differences, while it has changed a bit there is still a fairly strong expectation that you keep it together, particularly if there are kids... I know it seems crazy! But I'm not going to stay like this forever, it just makes me be a lot more patient about divorce than I would be otherwise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #112 ·
You hate people going behind your back so you let your wife know ahead of time you were emailing HER therapist your request AND that it included words of divorce right?
Absolutely... I make a point of always printing of these emails as soon as I've finished them and giving it to my wife. Might be unpleasant to read but it only says the facts... and its better IMHO than having people complaining about you without your knowledge, or worse with your knowledge that they're complaining but not knowing what about. Sorry for ruining the hypocrite theory but I do try to keep my own standards
 

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@georgieporgie

I’ve reread your opening post again, as well as post #10 again, and all your posts from when I first jumped in on this thread.

I could spend 40 minutes or so cutting and copying every instance in your writing in which you reveal this tendency, to be discussed below, but I have other things to do that are more productive. I hope you will consider what I say but I also have doubts in equal measure.

So, for what it’s worth...


You have a need to be blameless. You have to right. You don’t want her “gossiping” about you, when it is perfectly reasonable for anyone to confide in a loved one when they need support. You claim to be a private person and that’s why you resisted therapy. But in my experience those who resist therapy are, in reality, avoiding being held responsible. @john117 can verify that if you wish. Even if the reality of the situation isn’t one in which blame belongs in the picture, people who resist therapy are people who are terrified of being blamed or found at fault.

(On a personal note I’ve never understood what is so god awful about being wrong. Being wrong doesn’t mean being worthless, it just means there is some more learning to do)

Your wife’s weight “close to morbidly obese” may or may not be a simple life stage, considering your kids are fairly young. After a few pregnancies the after baby weight is more settled and infinitely more difficult to shed. I don’t think it’s very fair to expect her to return to a state of fitness. Unless she has always been athletic, you’re expecting her to engage in activities that have never been a regular part of her life.

I’m unfamiliar with ANY corroboration that anxiety is caused by obesity and I very much doubt her doctor suggested that all she needed was a better diet and exercise. Psychologically, the cause/effect is reversed. First anxiety then symptoms. The symptom is the weight gain, the cause is the anxiety. Fix the cause fix the symptom.

Pregnancy and childbirth alter a woman’s body tremendously and if your wife has picked up on your aversion to her after-childbearing body ::: OF COURSE SHE IS GOING TO AVOID SEX WITH YOU!!!!! I suspect you have selected her weight as a tally mark in your favor because...you do not like being blamed and you need to throw something back at her.

The reason why I suspect this is because if your wife’s weight was such an issue to you, why the hell do you want to have sex with her? This makes no sense to me.

You keep focusing on the fact that no one (your wife or her therapist) will enlighten you on what you should change. In other words, if you can’t tell me how to do it right than I am not to blame for doing it wrong. You need to give this issue a rest.

I suspect your wife’s therapist has her hands full attempting to wade through the marginalizing devastation of being married to a man who shows little warmth, demands sex while at the same time demanding she get in shape (because that’s a total turn on for any woman -can you see me rolling my eyes) and always has to be right!

Lastly, you say you’d be humiliated and socially castigated if your marriage ended. I suspect it’s more about your fear of being blamed.

I doubt very much you have autism. I think you’re probably damned astute.

I also think you should get yourself to your own therapist.
 
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Absolutely... I make a point of always printing of these emails as soon as I've finished them and giving it to my wife. Might be unpleasant to read but it only says the facts... and its better IMHO than having people complaining about you without your knowledge, or worse with your knowledge that they're complaining but not knowing what about. Sorry for ruining the hypocrite theory but I do try to keep my own standards
So your ok with her talking to her dad about you as long as afterwards she tells you. She can talk to her dads friend about you as long as afterwards she says hey I had a conversation with --//// about the trouble you have connecting with me and they think we should have you go talk to them to see if maybe your autistic. You'd be ok with that?
 

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Absolutely... I make a point of always printing of these emails as soon as I've finished them and giving it to my wife. Might be unpleasant to read but it only says the facts... and its better IMHO than having people complaining about you without your knowledge, or worse with your knowledge that they're complaining but not knowing what about. Sorry for ruining the hypocrite theory but I do try to keep my own standards
So your ok with her talking to her dad about you as long as afterwards she tells you. She can talk to her dads friend about you as long as afterwards she says hey I had a conversation with --//// about the trouble you have connecting with me and they think we should have you go talk to them to see if maybe your autistic. You'd be ok with that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #116 ·
So your ok with her talking to her dad about you as long as afterwards she tells you. She can talk to her dads friend about you as long as afterwards she says hey I had a conversation with --//// about the trouble you have connecting with me and they think we should have you go talk to them to see if maybe your autistic. You'd be ok with that?
Look is it really hard to understand that family should be left out? I've never once complained about her to my family or told them whats going on. Family can't consider things without bias, their involvement is toxic for a marriage.

Same goes for psychologists who live locally, its uncomfortable. I'm fine if she discusses it with people who live miles away and I'll only ever see them in therapy. I've only discussed it with therapists she's already been talking to, like this one who lives 200 miles away (skype). Not with say her colleagues at work.

A lot of your posts are very helpful, but some of them (like this desperate attempt to try and prove some double standard) give the impression that you're blindly on the side of the woman. I wonder how you'd react to a thread complaining about a husband who told his family his wife was autistic and did xyz, discussed with neighbours etc, withheld intimacy without saying why... you'd probably say he's isolating her, he's abusive, she should run for the hills
 

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I don't think withholding intimacy is good. But I also don't think you or most men understand that women have intimacy After they feel connected not to connect. Family is family when you divorce her as it is obvious you working up to, that's who she can count on. For most people it's who they can count on , who loves them, and in the end who will be there. She should be sharing good and bad things with her family it is how you stay connected. I think she has some issues and I think she isn't neccesarily handling them the right way. I think you have issues, you are the only one here so how would I address her issues? You say you want help but what are you implementing? Have you made an appointment with a physiologist of your own? Have you approached her about going to another marriage counselor? Have you discovered her Love language?

you refuse to see it is inappropriate to contact her therapist, and of course you are right on family. And she should only talk to those isolated from her. Sounds controlling. But it ok cause she is fat and withholds sex so you should be able to do what you want.

Am I always on the women side no. First this isn't or shouldn't be sides IF you want a healthy marriage. But TAM often times skews to the male view, doesn't have empathy for any women who isn't having relations with their husbands as often as he wants, and will sit and give you props. So if you came to vent you've found a great place that will tell you how great you are and that you should dump her. And how is that helping you? I was trying to actually help you see two sides, as I said at the first post or so you both are probably part of the problem. But you can only work on your side.

So divorce her. She does sounds like you have no room for her. Her whole life should be arranged to make sure you aren't uncomfortable. I think Anon Pink is onto something.

One other poster suggested having her live with her DAd for awhile that's an excellent suggestion. If she knows your considering divorce lots of women will get into shape and behave better, even have more sex so they can save their marriage. It will also make it easier on her to determine if she wants to do that. She may not want to be married to someone she can't emotionally connect to. Just as you don't want to be married to someone you aren't physically connected with. Living with dad will give you both something to think about and some space.
 

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Discussion Starter · #118 ·
Family is family when you divorce her as it is obvious you working up to, that's who she can count on. For most people it's who they can count on , who loves them, and in the end who will be there. She should be sharing good and bad things with her family it is how you stay connected...
And she should only talk to those isolated from her. Sounds controlling.
She was talking to her family before I said anything about divorce. At that stage I don't think anyone would recommend talking to family about marriage problems. She's welcome to talk to her family about the weather. I'm surprised you think asking her to respect my privacy is controlling, perhaps we should agree to disagree.

I think you have issues, you are the only one here so how would I address her issues? You say you want help but what are you implementing? Have you made an appointment with a physiologist of your own? Have you approached her about going to another marriage counselor? Have you discovered her Love language?
Yes in process of finding psychologist and new marriage therapist. Have read a lot of the love languages book and think hers is spending quality time. Just before seeing your post I asked her to come on a walk in the park with me just us. I spent a while thinking about @Anon Pink's recent post "You have a need to be blameless. You have to right", and reading about that eg https://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-243...t-its-probably-ruining-your-relationship.html as I think she has a point.

But it ok cause she is fat and withholds sex so you should be able to do what you want...
Her whole life should be arranged to make sure you aren't uncomfortable.
Wow. You make it sound as though I've hit her or something because she can't cartwheel on one hand. All I'm doing here is considering my own very reasonable needs.

Am I always on the women side no. First this isn't or shouldn't be sides IF you want a healthy marriage. But TAM often times skews to the male view, doesn't have empathy for any women who isn't having relations with their husbands as often as he wants, and will sit and give you props. So if you came to vent you've found a great place that will tell you how great you are and that you should dump her. And how is that helping you? I was trying to actually help you see two sides, as I said at the first post or so you both are probably part of the problem. But you can only work on your side.
I'm not sure TAM only considers the husband's needs, you've been here much longer than I but this recent thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/418569-husband-seems-uninterested-me.html does seem to understand the womans side also.
As I said I appreciate your input a lot. But I feel the most helpful posts acknowledge both sides explicitly, not just as an afterthought. Someone going through a rough time doesn't really want to be bulldozered. I've tried to bear that in mind in my posts on other threads since joining the forum. I repeat your input has been very helpful, thank you

One other poster suggested having her live with her DAd for awhile that's an excellent suggestion. If she knows your considering divorce lots of women will get into shape and behave better, even have more sex so they can save their marriage. It will also make it easier on her to determine if she wants to do that. She may not want to be married to someone she can't emotionally connect to. Just as you don't want to be married to someone you aren't physically connected with. Living with dad will give you both something to think about and some space.
Yes it will give both of us some room for reflection. I think I'll try once more now, and go for this suggestion if there's a next time.
 

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Look is it really hard to understand that family should be left out? I've never once complained about her to my family or told them whats going on. Family can't consider things without bias, their involvement is toxic for a marriage.

Same goes for psychologists who live locally, its uncomfortable.
I get the idea of not wanting someone talking about your private stuff to every Tom, **** and Harry. But this one makes no sense. A psychologist is a professional who is meant to help your wife. Guess how much this professional thinks about you when s/he goes home? Not At All. In person help is way better than skype. Are you sure, to your own self, that you are not just concerned with your image?

I'm fine if she discusses it with people who live miles away and I'll only ever see them in therapy. I've only discussed it with therapists she's already been talking to, like this one who lives 200 miles away (skype). Not with say her colleagues at work.

A lot of your posts are very helpful, but some of them (like this desperate attempt to try and prove some double standard) give the impression that you're blindly on the side of the woman. I wonder how you'd react to a thread complaining about a husband who told his family his wife was autistic and did xyz, discussed with neighbours etc, withheld intimacy without saying why... you'd probably say he's isolating her, he's abusive, she should run for the hills
 

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I get the idea of not wanting someone talking about your private stuff to every Tom, **** and Harry. But this one makes no sense. A psychologist is a professional who is meant to help your wife. Guess how much this professional thinks about you when s/he goes home? Not At All. In person help is way better than skype. Are you sure, to your own self, that you are not just concerned with your image?
in this case, the psychologist is a friend of his wifes dad. a friend of the family who lives close, who also happens to be a psychologist. THAT is the one that bothers him, not her normal psychologist that she sees...

that his wife is **** talking her husband to this family friend, who now seems to want to diagnose him with autism without ever having a session.

i would find it to be very disrespectful. sounds like some pretty low handed scheming.

unless im not following his posts correctly...
 
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