Talk About Marriage banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
i have been married for almost 5 years and although our marriage was a rushed one (we found out that she was going to have a baby during the week that we were taking a "breather" from our 3 month relationship (dating)), i fell in love in the subsequent years. we had previously discussed a mutual desire to have a baby and that we were "ready", so we were OVERJOYED!! btw - she was 30 at the time and i was 37.
we had our problems and therapy helped them for a while, but we got complacent, stop going(after a month or so) and eventually the old problems(mostly communication issues) we had before arose. we decided to go to therapy again. again, it seemed to help work, but those sessions lasted even less time than the first. that was 2 years ago. intimacy became a thing of the past and we haven't had sex for a year or so. infidelity is NOT an issue.
we went out to eat 3wks ago (i was making an attempt to woo her and try to the romance back into the relationship). at the start of the meal she asked what this was all about and i told her what i was trying to do. that is when she dropped the bomb. "i have been doing some soul searching for a while now and i think that we should separate." i don't know if i was in shock or was just trying to save face, but i didn't bat an eye. i agreed with her and said that it was probably best. she was relieved.during dinner we were already planning a move (we rent). that night and the next morning i was able to process all that was happening and i stopped and said to myself, "NO. i am going to fight for this marriage!" i see so many marriages that involve infidelity, abuse, alcoholism, you name it...and they can and DO survive. i thought that this one was worth saving! i woke her up the next morning b4 going to work to tell her this. i can tell that now she was totally disappointed that i was intending on not letting her go without a fight. we had agreed on therapy, but her intention for that was to remain amicable through the process for the sake of the our girls (4yrs/18months). my intention was to SAVE MY MARRIAGE/FAMILY. i asked her if she would reconsider and that we know that therapy had worked in the past and why not immerse ourselves in that for a LONG period this time. she would not budge. her mind had been made up (i have a strong suspicion that her friends (with no children mind you) were helping her in standing steadfast.)
she needs to "find herself and reconnect the bond we once had", she says. but apparently the only way we can do that is turn our girls live upside down and tear my heart out. i was COMPLETELY DEVASTATED. i cried like a baby for one straight week and i still get into crying jags. i am angry, frustrated, and feel absolutely powerless, because i cannot force her to stay. over these past few weeks, though, acceptance and therapy 2X per week has helped a lot. it has helped me move on.
my first reaction was to ask her to leave the house because i couldn't even look at her face with out breaking down, and i am trying so hard to keep it together in front of my girls. she stayed at a friends for a week and i am more comfortable with her being in the house, so she is back and we are trading couch/bed for the next 5 weeks until we both move.
i have never been so hurt in my entire life. i would have rather been beaten with a baseball bat. i feel as though the rug has been pulled out from under me.
i already have a place to stay near the beach in california, but she still has to start looking. i begged and pleaded to try to work this out and still stay but she WILL NOT budge. i guess that is what helping me move on.

well - i will write more later. i am so tired, but haven't been able to sleep. i figured that writing about this to others who are going through the same thing would help, and it has. will write more tomorrow. thanks for listening....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
Sorry for the hurt, I am sure you are doing all you can to save your relationship. Indeed fight for your marriage and try break the link with the friend if you feel this is part of the cause. There must be a reason she feels this way, find out what it is.

Let her know that she is moving out of the family home,not you.. secure your finances and work really hard to get her to give you full cutody of the kids. Once out in the real work she may ralise what she has given up and return..

Thoughts are with you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
660 Posts
lafatherandhusband, I applaud you for your tenacity and courage to fight for your marriage. No it won't necessarily be easy, but the right thing seldom is. Crying happens, but try not to dwell on it.

By all means protect your communication between yourself and your wife; and start to do the things that you will need to do to protect yourself in any eventuality. Just do them matter-of-factly, like you'd wash your laundry without a hint of spite or malice.

LIL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
LIL, beautifully put:) Laf, do something good and positive for your self today and another for your children, put one foot in front of the other, eat something, rest a while, get some exercise, go outside and take a walk, eat something and rest a while...write back and let us know how you are doing today and make a plan for tomorrow...peace
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
so i finally got to sleep last night and had to wake up 3 hrs later to go to work. i am wondering if part of the reason i had trouble sleeping is because the W is back, but i guess i will find out if it continues to happen for the rest of the week (we said we would have her back in the house on a trial basis).

today was an angry yet hopeful day. angry that this crap is happening to my family, angry that i/we let it go this far and hopeful that i will eventually get over this/her and move on. i have no idea what is going to happen and i HATE that. there are so many issues (mostly communication) that need to be worked out, but that is part of reason for my frustration. i KNOW that we can. this is the kind of stuff that THERAPY is for. i think, though, that the reason she is in therapy is to foster a friendship and make it so we can be amicable where the kids are concerned. it seems as though most of the problems that arise in our sessions are things that if I improve, she will love me again. that when i "get my sh-t together" i'll be worthy of loving again. the truth is that i have to get it together for ME and my GIRLS.
i DO believe that i have been depressed for quite some time (untreated) and now that i am taking my anti-depressants as prescribed there is a marked difference. but that is not a panacea for all that is wrong with our marriage. it takes two, but i can't help but feel as though she truly believes that the failure of this marriage is my doing.

its so hard to be around her because i want to hold her and kiss her and, well.....but it is too late. she doesn't want me and that sucks.
this is just so OVERWHELMING. at this point i can only take this one day at a time, and sometimes its 15 minutes at a time.
i am so glad that there is a place like this to vent and to hear others' stories. its weird, though, that so many are identical. it makes me feel as though i am not alone.

thanks for listening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
well things have gotten better, kind of....

we have been trying out the couch/bed trade off and as i posted earlier, i had trouble sleeping (even in my own bed). i slept in the bed a second night, too, and slept a bit better (i woke up around 4.30a instead of 1a. lol). to make a long story short - she woke up, too and started watching tv. i joined her, one thing led to another and next thing i know we are making mad passionate love on the couch. we hadn't been intimate in a year and i was always afraid that if we EVER WERE to be intimate again; that it would be awkward and uncomfortable. it wasn't. we had a session with our therapist and told her what happened. i think that she was pleased. W and i always take a short walk after each session and talk a bit, and at the end of yesterday's walk we embraced and kissed each other deeply right in the street. i felt in love all over again and it felt SO GOOD. we wound up BOTH sleeping in the bed again last night and made love again. it feels so good to be held by her, kiss her, etc., but now i am SUPER CONFUSED!! although we have made great progress in therapy (and will continue 2 sessions per week for a LONG time), my emotions are all over the place. i feel as though i have accepted the fact that she wants to have her space and to move separately to work out her/my issues and now i don't know where things stand. i was supposed to stay at my sister's house this weekend (where i planned to be living with my 2 girls in september), but it looks like i'll be staying home (she says that we can just give each other "space"). we say that we are trying not to upset/confuse the girls, but i can't help but think that they will REALLY be upset if things change drastically when/if we fully separate in september.
i feel as though we need to make some serious decisions and soon. the girls deserve that. i deserve that. i don't want to go along thinking that things are improving and that there is a chance at staying together, just to have the rug pulled from under me (winding up just as devastated as before). i need to have a SECURE environment for our girls. i need to figure out where i am going enroll my 4 year old in school. we need to figure out finances. we need to give notice to our lanlord. she needs to find a place to live. i need to get my head straight. i am very anxious about having the security of a roof over my head and DOUBLY anxious about my girls having the same thing.
i am about to meet my wife for dinner and we are going to discuss things. i SO want to stay with her and avoid disrupting my life, but most importantly - our GIRLS lives. but i must say that i vacillate from wanting to stay to wanting to move on and get on with my life and creating a secure environment my my kids.
the roller coaster of emotions is taking its toll on me. some days are GREAT (yesterday i had a GLOW), and some days suck (like when she makes me think that she wants to stick to her decision to move on). i want my happiness to depend on the decisions that I make, not someone else. ugh.

thanks for listening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
even though it seems as though i am the only one on this thread, it helps to put down some thoughts in writing.....


so we had dinner last night and discussed some our options. she had the idea to rent the house next door to us (its considerably bigger/more expensive) and stay in separate bedrooms to give each other "space" (i am still trying to figure out what that means...if she wants to go out, i don't protest (although i don't like it when she drinks and drives - which is what happens when she goes out)). she also thinks that intimacy (SEX) is confusing things. well - one our HUGE problems was a lack of intimacy, so i don't know exactly how that problem would be remedied while abstaining.
i have thought about it some, and i think that if we are TRULY going to try to work this thing out, that we should stay right where we are for the next 6 months (that is the marker we agreed on to see if things looked like they would be working out for us). i can deal with "space" (as soon as i figure out what that entails), but i cannot deal with no intimacy. lack of intimacy means that eventually you are going to be looking for it somewhere else, and that's a situation i DESPERATELY avoid.
i feel as though my happiness/misery is wrapped up in HER decision. i can't live like that. i need to stand up as man on my own two feet and find security within myself. although i love her, i can't sacrifice my self esteem just to keep everyone together. i am back and forth on this subject and it is making me lose sleep/focus/concentration.

we have had sex for the past 3 nights and slept in the same bed and i would lying if i said it wasn't wonderful, but part of me is thinking that it is "TOO" wonderful. i hope you know what i mean....

thanks for listening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
Do not move, stay in the same house, you chose it as a married couple keep it as a married couple. Both of you can work on the marriage together in familiar surroundings.

I am wondering how you behave at home does she think you are to needy?

Perhaps you need to consider pulling a 180 on her. Change you behaviours , examples below....


Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your wife side.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" is at this particular moment, she is not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life! - at least outwardly to her
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your wife - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your wife, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your wife needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that you are serious concerning her assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage.
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available for anything! Your wife will notice. More important, she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your wife happiness and contentment?
Make yourself be someone she would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your wife wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when she tells you how she feels (it only makes her feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you HEAR what it is that she is saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your wife. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

Your wife will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that she may be hurting and is afraid.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

When expressing your dissatisfaction, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed or the words said are causing you as a person.

This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life even though you are actualy still subtly fighting for your marriage.

Still more important, it will burst her positive little bubble; the one in which she believes that she can always come back to you in case things don't work out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Do not move, stay in the same house, you chose it as a married couple keep it as a married couple. Both of you can work on the marriage together in familiar surroundings.

I am wondering how you behave at home does she think you are to needy?

Perhaps you need to consider pulling a 180 on her. Change you behaviours , examples below....


Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your wife side.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" is at this particular moment, she is not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life! - at least outwardly to her
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your wife - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your wife, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your wife needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that you are serious concerning her assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage.
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available for anything! Your wife will notice. More important, she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your wife happiness and contentment?
Make yourself be someone she would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your wife wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when she tells you how she feels (it only makes her feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you HEAR what it is that she is saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your wife. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

Your wife will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that she may be hurting and is afraid.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

When expressing your dissatisfaction, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed or the words said are causing you as a person.

This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life even though you are actualy still subtly fighting for your marriage.

Still more important, it will burst her positive little bubble; the one in which she believes that she can always come back to you in case things don't work out.

thanks so much for the advice. much of it i am doing (the "i love you" is the one that sticks out the most, as does the listening/hearing aspect of our communication). i did, however, discuss the marriage in terms of living situation because there are other parties involved.
i had a therapy session yesterday and came up with the decision to tell her that i do NOT want to move right now if we intend on making this marriage work and that if we feel as though we should be intimate, we should be intimate. she agreed and we kissed. we haven't kissed in SO long and this past week, every time we do - it feels fantastic. we both know that the reality is that this is going to be a LONG haul and there is much that must change.
we made love last night even though she was tired (we put the kids to bed late last night). today we took the girls to the pony rides and mini train as a "family" outing. we held hands while i drove. she mentioned that we hadn't done that since - well, we couldn't remember. we embrace and kiss all of the time, and i am trying my best (think i'm doing a good job, too) to remain independent and up from under her all the time. its like we are falling in love all over again. i am trying to keep from floating into the ether, however. in all actuality - though it would be tough, i could deal with moving the girls out to my sister's (if that's what we decided was the best plan). we will make a definitive decision at our session on tuesday.
i have asked so many women friends what exactly "space" means and i am willing to give her hers. it means that i need to develop my OWN life, and my OWN interests. i will be too busy to be obsessing about what SHE is doing. i was a drug addict/alcoholic for a long time ( i got sober way before i met her - 10 yrs), and i think that it kept me emotionally retarded. it also made me an isolator. i shut myself away from the world for so long that personal relationships are difficult for me to exist in. being estranged from people became the norm. i need to learn how to be around people again (i used to be a popular, outgoing person - even without booze/drugs). i know i can do it. i have much to offer the world/my girls/my wife. perhaps this is the situation that will help to finally achieve those things. i have a strong suspicion that not matter the outcome, i will emerge a more fully formed MAN.


thanks for listening
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
so much has happened in the months since my last post.

we entered intensive therapy and also started seeing our own personal therapists. IT SAVED OUR MARRIAGE. things now are better than when we first got together. we still have our disagreements (who doesn't?), but we have developed the tools to deal with them in a constructive manner.
i personally have grown as a human and if we were to split up today, i would be disappointed, but not devastated. i changed all the things she felt were a problem in our marriage (lethargy, procrastination, unreliability, complacency, etc.). anti-depressants certainly helped. i stopped feeling sorry for myself and somehow pulled out of my funk. i saved my marriage, and most importantly - i saved my FAMILY. i am so glad that this forum was here to provide a place for me to vent and to put my feelings down in print.
if you are in a similar situation, don't despair. FIGHT for it. if it doesn't work out, so be it. but clean up YOUR side of the street and realize that that's all you can do. you will come out the other end a better, stronger person.

thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
That is great news. I have never posted on here before but have been reading for a few weeks. Your situation is similar to mine at the moment and i am just trying to work through each day as best as i can. Congrats on your success.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
One heck of a story, it is great to hear things are working out and that your personal growth was likely the key factor, I myself am re-learning how to be "me again" and your post is uplifting for the spirit ! good luck,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
A happy ending. Blessings and may it stay that way, especially as you two will now be amazing role models for your little girls to look up to and feel wonderfully secure wth.x
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
life is funny. ok, not SO funny.
i was the original poster on this thread and as you can read, i experienced a roller coaster of emotions. but, as is life, the story ISN'T over (and the happy ever after might not be so happy...)
Therapy DID save our marriage, and we continue to go to marriage therapy. i also see my own personal therapist (lately 2X per week). the issue: i told my wife that i no longer wish to be in a relationship where my WIFE needs to contemplate whether or not she loves me.
as i've said before, our marriage did not begin under the most auspiscious of circumstances, but through therapy we fell in love (probably for the FIRST time) - or so i thought. when i last posted, things were rosy, and i was on cloud nine. my wife also started seeing her own personal therapist and was prescribed meds (she was diagnosed with lower level bi-polar disorder). then, slowly, over the last 5 months - the bottom fell out.
fights were more frequent, the wife's moods became more erratic, there was more screaming in the household (i HATE to hear screaming). then it dawned on me - she had stopped going to her therapist (4 months ago), and spottily takes her meds. in addition to all of the above, i started noticing that she seemed to cringe if i went to hold her hand, i would get the cheek when i went in for a kiss (i brush my teeth on a regular basis, i will have you all know!), and a general look of disgust any time she looked at me. i got fed up. i guess i am thin-skinned when it comes to those sorts of things, so i was starting to think that something was wrong. well, at our last session (on thurs), she admitted it: she's just not into me. ouch.
i must say, though, that this isn't anywhere near as bad as it was about a year ago when we almost split up. my emotions run from liberation, to rejection, to fear, to regret, to sadness.
if only she had said - " i love you" in that session (she was pointedly asked the question), things would have been fine. but i had gotten the answer i asked for. brutally honest.
i told her directly after the session that i could no longer be in a marriage where my wife didn't love me. she didn't disagree (i wished she had. i truly love her - she says i don't, but i do). next thing i know, we are planning a divorce. we plan on moving out/separating in february when our lease is up.....

go figure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,147 Posts
Ugh! That's really disheartening...sounded like things were working out so well.

I think it's good that you took a stand and told her you don't want to be with someone who doesn't love you. Even though you didn't get the answer from her you hoped for, at least you are sticking up for what you need. And she knows that and respects that.

Did something happen 4-5 months ago that caused her to stop going to therapy and taking the meds regularly?

Sounds like you've cemented a lot of your personal improvements, but are there any you've let slide lately? Her?

Sorry to hear you're back under these circumstances, good luck man.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
thanks for the support. to answer a cpl of the questions -
our finances have been in a tizzy for the past year, but we(I) had recently started to reduce our debt, etc.
as far as me falling behind on things that i had changed - yes, i think that i was more "on the ball" about stuff (work, kids, bills - most of the things i handled) and let it slide a bit.
concerning therapy/meds for her - i think it is hard for her to face that she has a "condition",and i think complacency set in.
the thing is that we gave it a try. i realize that even though i hurt now (i think it is more grief over losing a family unit), that: a) though i love her, i don't even LIKE her anymore. she simply is not nice. not just to me, i observe how she treats/talks about others. they way she ALWAYS has (at least since i've known her). i don't think that she feels good about herself and it manifests itself through anger, spite, and ambivalence. we will remain friends (i have plenty of friends who are *******s....lol), but the difference is - i don't have to wake up next to her.
she brought home the obliglatory "how-to" divorce books from barnes and noble yesterday, and i felt a sting of reality. (my sister thinks that she is just being mean.lol) i don't care what she is being right now.
i've lined up a place for me and the (5y and 3y) to live in (which they will LOVE) and in an area where the schools/neighborhood are/is 10X better.
the days emotions vary: ELATION, REGRET, SADNESS, ANGER, SELF PITY, HOPEFULNESS...but at least they aren't DESPONDENCY (which is pretty much where i was last year).
i am frustrated with myself for not having the self esteem to get out of this earlier. i feel as though she stayed because i begged and now i feel she resents me for it. i must say, though, it is SO much less painful this time around.

i know one thing,though - TODAY is a good day.

thanks for reading, and i will keep updating.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Your story is a touching one! I am going through a similar situation with my H. At the moment, he refuses to work on our marriage because he thinks that it is hopeless. We have always had a great relationship until very recently. I am at the point now where I need to build a life for myself(get a job, find my own friends, etc.) I am doing all these things for me but I hope in the long run my H will see the changes I am making and reconsider a divorce. If all else fails, at least I will have managed to become a better person. Good luck with your journey. It sounds like while I am just walking into the darkness, you are finally seeing the light!
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top