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What she is probably holding onto (not that it makes it OK) is that you weren't up front with her about that woman at work that you had a crush on. That someone else felt the need to tell her about it probably fueled it into a brushfire.

That is almost identical to what happened with my husband while we were dating...unfortunately, it set the stage for further issues, and no matter what happens, I'm always brought back to that # 1 lie. 2 years later, I'm seriously considering ending things because of it.

You can't go back and fix that now; all I can say is be 100% honest with your wife and hope that she eventually comes around.
My situation is similar. My fiancé tells me that I am "better" than his EA. Wow, that sounds nice but my memory reminds me that he didn't drop the "just friends" charades until I asked him to.

So of course, this fuels a need in myself to be hyper vigilant so that I nip things in the bud. It also makes me feel that until I took a stand --on any matter now-- he has the feeling of "who gives a ****, if she's not confident enough to ask for it, then she doesn't deserve it."

That's enough to make you want to be proactive.
 

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My wife is chronically suspicious.
Corum, you are describing a woman who has a strong fear of abandonment, which would explain why she sees a dire threat in the most trivial of behaviors. If she has such a fear, she likely acquired it in early childhood, not from the exBFs she is now disparaging. As you said in another thread, she had a very difficult childhood.

If she has such a strong fear, it likely went unnoticed during your courtship period only because her intense infatuation with you held her abandonment fear at bay. That is, her thinking of you as the perfect white knight -- her savior -- prevented her from worrying about abandonment. Yet, as soon as the infatuation evaporated -- as usually happens right after the marriage ceremony (if not several months earlier) -- the fear returned.

Her having such a fear would mean you likely will be subject to an endless series of sh!t tests to prove your loyalty and love. Yet, trying to prove your love to a woman who is incapable of loving or trusting herself will be an impossible task. I say this after having been foolish enough to try for 15 years with my exW.

What happens is that, every time you pass one of her devotion tests, she still will refuse to believe you. Instead, she will simply raise the hoop higher that you must jump through on the next test. Likewise, the harder you try to prove your love, the more insistent she will be that you don't love her. How can she believe you love her when she is unable to love herself?

Significantly, a strong fear of abandonment is one of the hallmarks of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which affects 6% of the population -- including my exW. It also is significant that several behaviors you describe in your other three threads -- the anger issues, verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," lack of any long-term close friends, and the rapid flips between loving you and devaluing you -- also are classic traits of BPD. Further, it is common for a BPDer to be extremely sensual and passionate during the honeymoon and -- as occurred with you -- for the sex to go off a cliff immediately after the marriage ceremony.

Importantly, I do not know whether your W has strong BPD traits or not. I've not even met the woman. Further, if she does have strong traits, there are a few other symptoms she likely should be exhibiting but which you do not mention. I therefore suggest that you read about such traits to see if most of them sound very familiar. Although you are not capable of diagnosing her, spotting the red flags is not difficult. There is nothing subtle about BPD traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, always being "The Victim," and a strong, irrational fear of abandonment.
She is in individual therapy as well as our MC.
If she has strong BPD traits like my exW, you can forget MC. It likely will be a total waste of money until she has had several years of IC to work on her far more serious issues. As to her IC, you cannot rely on her psychologist for candid information. For many reasons, therapists are loath to tell a BPDer (much less her H) the name of her disorder. (For an explanation, see my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909.)

Relying on your W's therapist for candid advice during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on her attorney for advice during the divorce. It is important to consult with a professional who is ethically bound to protect YOUR interests, not hers. I therefore encourage you to see your own psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with.

While you are waiting for an appointment, I suggest you read my brief description of what it was like to live with a BPDer. My post appears in Maybe's thread at My list of hell!. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Corum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
haks very much Upton. My ex wife was / is BPD. I know it all too well. I was everything to her; and the - worse than nothing. She always feared me leaving her, me dying first, whatever. After 12 years of blissfull marriage we moved back to Japan and in a few months she had an EA that went full-blown. He is now her husband and they have my daughter.

My current wife has lots of issues she is facing.
It's just if I can weather the storm...or if I even should...
I want to be patient, caring, understanding, but I'm only mortal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Sorry, I must be missing something...what was it that some other woman went and told your wife (then gf) that got her upset?
Yes. This other woman in the office. Let's call her "Y-san".
She was pretty reviled by everyone in the office, and I knew she liked me but paid no heed. When I first started working I was married to my ex...any anyway this woman is far from my type.

My wife extended to her as they were the same age (over 40 in Japan can be tough) and their desks were close.

My wife thought she would be happy when she told "Y-san "of this relationship. They were friendly and she was going to share her happiness. Instead she became nasty and basically tried to sabotage our only three month old relationship. She told my wife I was so in love with this girl that I must be forever heartbroken and could never recover. ow I could date someone else - she was shocked! (???)

I had trusted this woman "Y-san" too, which is why she knew I had feelings for this girl. Not only did she not keep this information from months ago in private, but she embellished it beyond imagination and tossed it in my wife's face. My wife knew she was jealous of her, but still the words stung her.

We both came to hate her - "fortunately" she was laid off...
 

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I see...well, whether the info from Y-san was exagerated or not, I'm betting it plays a huge roll in your wife's ongoing insecurity.

I only speak from my own experience, though. Everytime I have an issue with my own husband in the honesty department, I can't help but go all the way back to that first deception. Why, I don't really know, my mind just wanders there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I see...well, whether the info from Y-san was exagerated or not, I'm betting it plays a huge roll in your wife's ongoing insecurity.

I only speak from my own experience, though. Everytime I have an issue with my own husband in the honesty department, I can't help but go all the way back to that first deception. Why, I don't really know, my mind just wanders there.
I am curious...asking a woman...why would a non-relationship months before I knew her existence be an issue...especially if I was up-front and told her on the first date?
 

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I am curious...asking a woman...why would a non-relationship months before I knew her existence be an issue...especially if I was up-front and told her on the first date?
My case is slightly different...but I can only guess that your wife doesn't completely believe you regarding this woman. She probably wonders why a third party would bother embellishing such a story. Maybe she wonders if you really were in love with this other woman. It doesn't matter that it was before you even met...


For me, my husband lied outright about an old 'friend'. I found out from a third party that the relationship had been a sexual one (FWB). To this day, I still think there was more to that relationship than what he admits to; he only admitted to the sexual part of it because, as I said, someone else outed him. Honestly? I think he was head over heels for this woman, and that it wasn't totally reciprocated...he gets too emotional about it for it just to be a 'FWB' arrangement, as he insisted it was.

Even though that was in the past, before I met him, it still stings me. Even right now, as I tell the story.
 

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My ex wife was / is BPD. I know it all too well.... My current wife has lots of issues she is facing.
I suspected as much about your exW but was talking about your current W. Are you sure your current W's "lots of issues" are all that much different from those of your first W? Because we caregivers tend to be attracted to the same women again, it is common for us to walk out on one only to run into the arms of another just like the one we left.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I suspected as much about your exW but was talking about your current W. Are you sure your current W's "lots of issues" are all that much different from those of your first W? Because we caregivers tend to be attracted to the same women again, it is common for us to walk out on one only to run into the arms of another just like the one we left.
My current W is if anything overly independent. No clinging here...I think her issues though significant are very different.
She doesn't trust and doesn't let anyone one in..
 

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Corum is your now wife as well as your previous wife both Japanese? Unfortunately your story about your first wife is all too common. I lived in Japan for a while and I also have experience dating Japanese women. I've also seen and heard about how often things do not go well when foreigners and Japanese marry. Of course your relationship can always be the exception. Your wife now, when she was dating those married men was it by choice? Did she not know they were married?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Yes both Japanese...and yes Japanese women carry unique baggage. Yeah, I don't have custody of my daughter even though my ex cheated...that is Japan.

My wife and married me; yes she knew they were married. Unfortunately this is common in Japan. She also did not really date Japanese men due to traumatic episodes when she was younger on public transport. If you lived in Japan you know what I mean....
 

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Yes I do.

The reason why I asked is because any woman who choices to date men that are not available is probably afraid of true intimacy. She is probably panicking because she is not used to open and healthy relationships. Maybe she is responding the way she is because she feels deep down inside she doesn't really deserve this. Or she could be sabotaging it subconsciously for the same reason. Is she open about her feelings? In my experiences Japanese don't communicate well about their feelings. And with the unique experiences she has had she may permanently want to shut people out.

By the way, an Australian friend of mine had the same situation of your first marriage. He met his Japanese wife in Australia. She was fun loving and open. They had kids. When they came back to Japan she changed. It was like she was embarassed to be married to a foreigner. He said she just started ignoring him completely and then cheated on him and left. I guess the pressure got to her.
 

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My current W is if anything overly independent. No clinging here...I think her issues though significant are very different. She doesn't trust and doesn't let anyone one in..
The inability to trust others is one of the BPD traits. As to not "letting anyone in," a strong fear of engulfment (from intimacy) also is a BPD trait. Indeed, BPDers have two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. I therefore ask what symptoms you see that are inconsistent with a pattern of BPD traits?
 

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The inability to trust others is one of the BPD traits. As to not "letting anyone in," a strong fear of engulfment (from intimacy) also is a BPD trait. Indeed, BPDers have two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. I therefore ask what symptoms you see that are inconsistent with a pattern of BPD traits?
I agree with this. I don't know if she is BP. But dating men that are unavailable is definitely a fear of intimacy. Also would explain her independence. My EX-GF told me she liked dating married men because she was free to hang out with her friends and have fun because married men weren't always available. She didn't have to see and talk with them everyday. When it's like that, it's too much for them at times. You said she is always suspicious. She probably needs to find things wrong to validate her fears and insecurities. Even it's nothing she needs to create something. When I told my EX-GF I didn't smoke, drink, or do drugs. She told me it made her uncomfortable that I always deprived myself. :wtf:
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Yes its true that many Japanese date married men so there is no commitment. At the time my wife was still in her 20s and was being young and irresponsible. I know of two cases of married men.
She did have some longer term relationships, once four years, but she decided against offers of marriage. For the most part she played. Almost like a guy really. The fact many people thought she was a model or likewise made it that much easier.

She definately has commitment issues however and she knows it. She spent 43 years single by choice. She liked having her own pace and never having to answer or compromise with a partner.
Marriage brought new challenges for her.
And me LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
The inability to trust others is one of the BPD traits. As to not "letting anyone in," a strong fear of engulfment (from intimacy) also is a BPD trait. Indeed, BPDers have two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. I therefore ask what symptoms you see that are inconsistent with a pattern of BPD traits?
I dont see the intense emotional lability. She is very "dry" both ways. She never cries, almost never yells. She can be very cold and cruel however. She dos not show intense feelings either way.
She also has quite good confidence in herself, though I would not call her narcissistic.
Sorry I don't have the DSM in front of me right now, but she is nothing like my ex.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Well... the wife went to see her therapist Saturday and discussed our issues giving an update.

Therapist's advice is to move to a new place where we have another room where my wife can have some "alone" time. As my wife has always lived alone - other than with family - she needs space. She is constantly edgy and stressed and says this is because she needs her own room. This would be the second move in two years. Last time she was "so sure" this new place would fix all our problems. Now my wife is again "so sure".

I understand space needs, but I see isolating herself in her own room rather than dealing with the root cause of why she is constantly irritated and anxious. She admits it's not my fault, that it is her bad way of dealing with things...her background, etc. But if that is true why not try to work on the root cause of the stresses, the paranoia, the fears and insecurities.

Adding another room does not solve anything, but prolongs the inevitable. What if due to finances we cannot afford a two bedroom place? I just have to accept she will blow up at me for no reason every other day?

This doesn't seem reasonable and I am afraid her therapist is looking for the easy way out.

- Oh and Uptown - I gave is a lot of thought this weekend and I am afraid she does show BPD traits...and that does not bode well as I have experience with a BPD wife before.
 

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Move so you wife can have another room and more alone time??? This is the beginning of a domestic partnership and the end of your marriage IMO. This is will be her "safe haven". You will not be allowed in. This will be the place she goes in her head and you will have no idea where she is coming from because she will start to make more and more decisions that don't concern you when they should. You will physically be helping her shut you out. I think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Move so you wife can have another room and more alone time??? This is the beginning of a domestic partnership and the end of your marriage IMO. This is will be her "safe haven". You will not be allowed in. This will be the place she goes in her head and you will have no idea where she is coming from because she will start to make more and more decisions that don't concern you when they should. You will physically be helping her shut you out. I think.
I though of this too...she is already emotionally (and often physically) distant. This will only add to that... I don't see how it will make us closer.

:(
 
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