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This is probably the biggest difference between me and the others here. I do not believe love is a zero-sum game. It certainly doesn't have to be.



With rape, you're forcing someone to have sex with you against their will. That's not what we're talking about here. But you're right, we have rules to curb some of our behavior which may hurt others. However, not everyone is hurt by the same things or to the same degree so the rules don't have to be the same in every relationship.



That's up to the individuals in the relationship and every relationship will be different. There are some people who don't mind letting their partners go off and have fun and also want to have fun themselves, so in those relationships there will be no consequences. Others are not so easy going but are not super restrictive either. Most people on this website definitely don't fall into either of those categories. They don't want to see their partners have sex, kiss, hug, send explicit texts to, receive explicit texts from, go out with, or flirt with anyone else. Ever. Period. It's your prerogative to establish the rules as you see fit. I'm just saying the tougher your rules are, the tougher it's going to be for somebody down the line, even if they went into the relationship very much in love. Maybe when your partner who has supported you and loved you and raised children with you for fifteen years goes off and has a fling, it's not because they're a colossal piece of ****. Maybe the rules were too strict to begin with.
Oh just stop. Seriously. The rules were to strict? Get out of here with your crap. Seriously. Go away.
 

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This is probably the biggest difference between me and the others here. I do not believe love is a zero-sum game. It certainly doesn't have to be.



With rape, you're forcing someone to have sex with you against their will. That's not what we're talking about here. But you're right, we have rules to curb some of our behavior which may hurt others. However, not everyone is hurt by the same things or to the same degree so the rules don't have to be the same in every relationship.



That's up to the individuals in the relationship and every relationship will be different. There are some people who don't mind letting their partners go off and have fun and also want to have fun themselves, so in those relationships there will be no consequences. Others are not so easy going but are not super restrictive either. Most people on this website definitely don't fall into either of those categories. They don't want to see their partners have sex, kiss, hug, send explicit texts to, receive explicit texts from, go out with, or flirt with anyone else. Ever. Period. It's your prerogative to establish the rules as you see fit. I'm just saying the tougher your rules are, the tougher it's going to be for somebody down the line, even if they went into the relationship very much in love. Maybe when your partner who has supported you and loved you and raised children with you for fifteen years goes off and has a fling, it's not because they're a colossal piece of ****. Maybe the rules were too strict to begin with.
No, it’s because they’re a colossal POS.
 

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This is probably the biggest difference between me and the others here. I do not believe love is a zero-sum game. It certainly doesn't have to be.



With rape, you're forcing someone to have sex with you against their will. That's not what we're talking about here. But you're right, we have rules to curb some of our behavior which may hurt others. However, not everyone is hurt by the same things or to the same degree so the rules don't have to be the same in every relationship.



That's up to the individuals in the relationship and every relationship will be different. There are some people who don't mind letting their partners go off and have fun and also want to have fun themselves, so in those relationships there will be no consequences. Others are not so easy going but are not super restrictive either. Most people on this website definitely don't fall into either of those categories. They don't want to see their partners have sex, kiss, hug, send explicit texts to, receive explicit texts from, go out with, or flirt with anyone else. Ever. Period. It's your prerogative to establish the rules as you see fit. I'm just saying the tougher your rules are, the tougher it's going to be for somebody down the line, even if they went into the relationship very much in love. Maybe when your partner who has supported you and loved you and raised children with you for fifteen years goes off and has a fling, it's not because they're a colossal piece of ****. Maybe the rules were too strict to begin with.
With cheating the betrayed is forced to live with their spouse having sex with someone else.


Everything in the last paragraph is a total load of crap that gives every cheater a blank check to do what they want.

In order for a relationship to be open that has to be agreed to in advance. That last line is utterly ridiculous. That partner may not always be a colossal piece of ****, but while they are sending nude pics or having sex with another person they are most certain are a colossal piece of ****. And it okay just because the rules were a little too tough? Oh please give me a break.

Are you even married?
 

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Ok, I read the post @fencewalker started to introduce himself. I would not be taking his advice on cheating. He can't keep an erection because his wife's breast are too small. He regularly use porn, goes to strip clubs and frequents cam girl sites.

And here is his view on monogamy:

"Monogamy
Years ago, I never devoted much thought to marriage as an institution. I just accepted it. After years of marriage and a lot of thought and reading (“Sex at Dawn”, “Marriage, a History”), I have come to the firm conclusion that humans, generally speaking, are not a monogamous species. It comes down to a very simple question – after two people have mated, do they remain attracted to other people? Obviously, the answer is “yes”, but if humans were truly monogamous, the answer would be “no”. People say all the time that “marriage is hard work”. Would a truly monogamous species view marriage as hard work? Bottom line, requiring members of a promiscuous species to choose one other member to mate with for life is bound to cause problems (hence this section of the talkaboutmarriage page).

I think I would go so far as to say I’m resentful of the institution, with its inflexibility and impossible standards. I can’t think of any other human endeavor that is considered a failure if it does not last forever. The emotion that defines marriage, that separates it from other relationships, is not love – it’s jealousy. There is love between family members and friends, but you’re allowed to have more than one family member and more than one friend. Not so with marriage. Jealousy existed before marriage (even a group of friends can feel jealous if one believes he/she is being left out), but marriage is the only institution that encourages jealousy, with society telling you to keep a tight leash on your significant other. Though it is not stated explicitly, many feel that if their significant other does want to explore, it is because they have failed in some way. I feel horrible for the emotional roller coaster I have put my wife through. I do accept responsibility, but I believe the marriage concept is to blame as well.

My wife and I have talked about having an open relationship and swinging. It took her a while to be okay with my clubbing and online chatting. The open relationship thing is a no go for her and there’s probably little chance of changing her mind. "




So, if you want to take advice about a cheating partner from someone who holds monogamy in complete disdain, I think you may be asking for trouble.
 

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All the advice I have given the OP has been completely sound. I hope you all are proud of yourselves for trying to persuade him to humiliate his wife with a polygraph and end his marriage without even attempting to work through any underlying issues, even after he said he wanted to see if the marriage was salvageable. You don't want to help the OP, you want to attack me for having a different opinion. You're all class acts. Good luck, OP.
 

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All the advice I have given the OP has been completely sound. I hope you all are proud of yourselves for trying to persuade him to humiliate his wife with a polygraph and end his marriage without even attempting to work through any underlying issues, even after he said he wanted to see if the marriage was salvageable. You don't want to help the OP, you want to attack me for having a different opinion. You're all class acts. Good luck, OP.
We have some understanding of what OP is facing. He came here for help with that.
 

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All the advice I have given the OP has been completely sound. I hope you all are proud of yourselves for trying to persuade him to humiliate his wife with a polygraph and end his marriage without even attempting to work through any underlying issues, even after he said he wanted to see if the marriage was salvageable. You don't want to help the OP, you want to attack me for having a different opinion. You're all class acts. Good luck, OP.
No, if the OP followed your advice, this affair would be rug swept and OP would be back here just when he thought he was through this with a post titled: "My wife Cheated again...." or "The Affair Never Ended...".

You have given the exact opposite of sound advice. It's like Gonorrhea; It sounds good, but it really isn't.

Everyone here not pushing for the destruction of the traditional Marriage and good old fashioned morals who gave sound advice can be proud of themselves for providing OP with a map that he can follow to get himself out of infidelity.

You accused us of not wanting to help OP, I would posit that we are the only ones who are trying to help OP since we are not covertly pushing a counter cultural and counter moral agenda. We are helping OP get out of infidelity.

Had you been up front and stated to OP that he should open his marriage because of what you think about marriage, I would not have called it a covert assertion of your agenda, but because you posted under the guise of wanting to help him in the framework of a traditional marriage, I would say this did harm in the pursuit of a personal agenda.
 

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All the advice I have given the OP has been completely sound. I hope you all are proud of yourselves for trying to persuade him to humiliate his wife with a polygraph and end his marriage without even attempting to work through any underlying issues, even after he said he wanted to see if the marriage was salvageable. You don't want to help the OP, you want to attack me for having a different opinion. You're all class acts. Good luck, OP.
You really don’t understand trust do you.

If you can’t trust your partner there is no relationship.

If she wanted to step out of the relationship then she should have talked with OP before hand instead of lying to his face and cheating.

You can argue and blame others all you want, it doesn’t change the facts that OP’s wife is a lying cheat who didn’t give a **** about her family.

Your advice is sound only if you take for granted everyone will cheat and that it’s no big deal. Just get over it already.
 

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All the advice I have given the OP has been completely sound. I hope you all are proud of yourselves for trying to persuade him to humiliate his wife with a polygraph and end his marriage without even attempting to work through any underlying issues, even after he said he wanted to see if the marriage was salvageable. You don't want to help the OP, you want to attack me for having a different opinion. You're all class acts. Good luck, OP.
He can't trust anything she says. She has been lying for 17 months. Why believe her now? 99% of all the infidelity stories here involve a cheater that will only admit to what they think the betrayed knows. They will keep lying until the betrayed finds out something on their own. Oh it was just texting, oh we did meet once, oh we just kissed, oh we had sex just once and on it goes.

Everyone here wants to help him, maybe even you. However, don't you think it would have been more honest if you were upfront about your views on monogamy?
 

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The fact of the matter is you don't know what the OP did and are not interested in finding out.
This is what's wrong with today's men. Men that have forgotten their biology (unless you're a women, then it makes sense).
From a biological perspective men evolved to ensure that the progeny he was was taken care of were his, not another male. Because what we all want by design is the transmittal of our genes not one else's.
With the advent of agriculture and men becoming settled, not longer nomads the creation of wealth ensure that men were to make sure even more that that progeny was theirs; henceforth the evolution of all social taboos and enforcement to make sure of it. Men since immemorial times had been taught to react in certain ways when the chosen female mate does not ensure the viability of their own genes. Throughout history men have reacted from the most brutal ways to the most socially aceptable ways to apply appropriate social punishment to females that broke the covenant.

We not longer (at least in western societies) live by the blood honor system, but the problem with it is a big percentage of men in today's societies are not longer able to know how to be a man. They are not longer taught to have self respect, self worth, dignity, how to be strong and demanding. On the contrary, human proclivity to rationalize to death anything has gone the opposite way, and by rationalization are teaching today's new male's generations to be sort of androgynous, to bend down, to act feminized, to the point the a big percentage of males now don't have a clue how to pursue a woman, nor how to interact with them.

this poster @fencewalker user name it's apt to what I'm trying to say: Fencewalker, a person that can't have a strong conviction, so he goes by the pathetic, affeminate it most be the guy's fault, therefore he must submit and forgive one of the most socially and biologically injuries a man can endure, that of his mate cheating on him. Horseshit I say, men must be re-taught how to stand for themselves and not accept this horseshit sandwich of social acceptance that goes by these days.

@fencewalker must be one those, simps, pathetic excuse of what goes by the name of a man these days (if he's a man). Because not real man would take and forgive a cheating mate or accept that the cheating is his fault and forgive. Next you know you're raising some other men children. **** not.
As a man my mantra is I don't care the who, why, when, where, for how long, just that you did. Relationship's over.
 

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the social conditioning in the west is more pervasive than I ever imagined. it manifests itself immediately when women are involved. I see it all the time. After a while, you can pick out the serviceable guy at Starbucks or Target, or the restaurant. These are the guys who go right into serviceability mode when a woman enters his life. What can I do for her? How can I demonstrate my worthiness? My value. They also tend to go whole-hog into her world, her friends, activities, etc... They want to please. More accurately. They are afraid of displeasing. It's ingrained. they can't help themselves. my guesstimate is that well over 50% of men 50 - 70 cannot think outside this narrative (the myth) spoon-fed on television, movies, education, catholic education especially (HS, college, and even grad school) from a very young age.

Outside the relationship dynamic, these guys are far from the so-called nice guy. I know a lot of guys like this. I keep my mouth shut of course. they are far from the typical nice guy in the work environment, golf course, or tavern. Far from it.

Fencewalker is clearly from the Nice-Guy School.
 

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She has been cheating and lying to you for 1.5 years. The chances that it went physical at some point are astronomical.

How did the poly turn out?
 
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