[sully83]

I just was recently married June 2nd to an older woman shes 28 i am 25(almost). At this point i do not know who to turn to. If i talk to her about things i do not like she gets mad and says what are you doing with me if i am such a horrible wife. So one of he main issues is she constantly is telling me "baby dont ever cheat on me, baby never hurt, baby are you cheating on me" on an almost daily basis. If i am late at all form work anything beyond 15 min shes calling texting and asking where i am am i cheating on her. I had a new colleague start working with me and shes pretty but really nothing special. So of course the question comes up i said yeah shes pretty and she gets mad and jealous. I talked about running for exercise and doing marathons at work and the new girl told me her and her bf do together. I thought that would be a great idea for me and my wife to try. Immediately she asked why do you want me to run with you who runs at work oh why dont you go run with the new girl. i just do not know what to do to make her understand i wont cheat on her; i have no desire to see anyone else let alone be with anyone else. I left my family friends an awesome workplace and opportunity in MA to move to be with her in PA where she is tied to because of her first husband with whom she has a 4 yr old. I work M W F 9-7 sat and sun 9-330 and school 8-5 during the week. i cook i clean i do laundry i help with the little one as any good parent should i vacuum i do dishes yard work ect ect ect. the other day i made it a point to drive across town to see her at her work on my lunch break and bring her her favorite coffee. she lovedddd it. tonight she was saying how she had a headache the last two days and doesnt feel good so i was looking up flowers to send her on the computer and she came down stairs. she asked for the laptop and i said no then panicked and restarted it so she wouldnt see me trying to place the order. i understand that could look suspicious i really do but even if i told her the truth she would not believe me. Nothing else i have ever done has warranted any suspicious mainly because i have nothing at all to hide. i dont go out to the bars or clubs, hell i dont even go to the gym.. i tried to go early a.m before work and she go mad at me going all the time.

Sorry if this is too long of a post just getting everything off my chest, (newbie to here).

I also really love cars. I have a nice car that i like to do little modifications to here and there and keep it clean. If i go outside to do anything to it she gets mad and rolls her eyes and is like oh my good you really need to do that now. average i clean it once every week or two. Only other hobby of mine is football. I watch it on sunday and i like to have a friend over with me. She got mad because he came over i wouldnt ride with her, leave him, drive across town to her ex's with her to pick up her son. i dont do this every sunday nor is it feasible with my schedule.

Can someone please help? or help me see the perspective from her i am not seeing? i feeling like i gave up everything to start a new life out here and i do all i can around the house plus work and school and it is never enough. if i dont go to bed with her and stay up late to study or watch tv downstairs she says she feels like shes doesnt have a husband. She told me yesterday she feels like i dont love her and/or not as much as she loves me. I leave her little comments on fb telling her i love her i send txt messages and leave i love u messages on her calender but it never seems to be enough.... HELPPPP!

 

[sharkeey]

It's going to get old.

FAST.

Then you'll know what to do.

 

[Kasler]

Yeah its time for a sit down. Let her get mad but she needs to hear it.

You have to tell her that you love her and no one else, but her constant and irrational daily suspicion WILL drive you away one day.

You tell her outright that she needs to cool it with that sh!t and be comfortable in the relationship, be a man about it.

 

[mel123]

she wants to control you and make you bow to her every whim....This is not normal..... I bet she was this way in the past with family, friends ,co-workers and past b/f......She needs help she is extremely insecure and controlling and self-centered.........Most women do have a legitimate claim that their H may not give them enough attention but this is unreasonable.

 

[sully83]

i have tried, i have sat her down and talked to her but it always come up that is the way she feels and makes me feel guilty asking if she needs to hide her emotions. I have tried the nicer gentler way but i have also given her a tougher firmer way teller her (she has threatened to leave) that i dont want her to go and shes my wife and i want nothing but that but she can do what she needs to do. he solution was cry and cry and eventually just come back to bed. Maybe it is time to sit down and have another talk with her and lay down the law. i cant go through this for the rest of my life.

 

[sully83]

@mel123- when we were dating we did the distance thing for awhile. she would be mad if i saw my best friend and stayed at HIS house once a week, mean while i am still living with my mom and grandparents at the time.. i just got back after being in the military 4 yrs and told her she cant be like that with me. she actually broke up with me a few times only to get right back with me. Finaly i broke up with her. She FREAKED OUT crying screeming calling. i explained i wasnt going to wait around for nonsense and her to break it off. needless to say we got back together. but everything was under suspicion if i told her i was going out if my cell died. She did tell me her first bf(first parnter sexually as well) she walked in on cheating on her. she left him and never went back. her next relationship was her ex husband. she told me she never really loved him... yet they have a child together? never could figure that out. I am a criminal justice major looking at the FBI and various jobs and she told me she is not willing to even try to work a deal with him to move to another part of the country and i can do whatever i need to do. She said she will not jeopardize the friendly relationship or at least mutual understanding relationship she has with her ex. meaning he gives her no issues with taking the kid out of state or on vacations and flexible with visitations ect. Also she did admit to me she gets mad when things are not in her control

 

[Uptown]

Sully, welcome to the TAM forum. The appearance of such serious issues -- very controlling behavior, verbal abuse, trying to isolate you from friends, and irrational jealousy -- have surfaced only 3 months into your marriage is NOT a good sign. You are describing a woman who has a strong fear of abandonment, which would explain why she sees a dire threat in the most trivial of behaviors. If she has such a fear, she likely acquired it in early childhood.

If so, the fear likely went unnoticed during your courtship period only because her intense infatuation with you held her abandonment fear at bay. That is, her thinking of you as the perfect white knight prevented her from worrying about abandonment. Yet, as soon as the infatuation evaporated -- as usually happens right after the marriage ceremony (if not several months earlier) -- the fear returned.

Another issue you seem to be describing is her having great difficulty with "object constancy," i.e., with feeling that she is still an important part of your life when you are out of site. If she has such an issue -- an issue that often accompanies the serious abandonment fear -- it would explain why she is on the phone all through the day trying to keep in touch with you.

My adult foster son, for example, would call me several times a day if I would allow it. Instead, I limit him to one call a day. Because he has an object constancy problem, he has been calling me every day since leaving home 18 years ago and moving 1,000 miles away. He only talks to me for a minute or two, which is all it takes for him to feel like he is still an important part of my life.

Of those two issues -- the abandonment fear and object constancy problem -- the first will give you the greatest grief. I say this because you likely will be subject to an endless series of sh!t tests to prove your loyalty and love. Yet, trying to prove your love to a woman who is incapable of loving or trusting herself will be an impossible task. I say this after having been foolish enough to try for 15 years with my exW.

What happens is that, every time you pass one of her devotion tests, she still will refuse to believe you. Instead, she will simply raise the hoop higher that you must jump through on the next test. Likewise, the harder you try to prove your love, the more insistent she will be that you don't love her. How can she believe you love her when she is unable to love herself?

As to the controlling behavior you witness (e.g., sulking when your friend is visiting), a woman having a strong abandonment fear feels a strong need to control every aspect of your personal life so as to prevent you from leaving her. And, to make it easier to control you, she has a strong incentive to isolate you away from all friends and family members. My exW was the same way. The last thing she wanted was for me to find support from a friend or family member who would tell me "that's the most ridiculous explanation I've ever heard."

i feel like i gave up everything to start a new life out here and i do all i can around the house plus work and school and it is never enough.

It likely will never be enough. If your W has the issues I mentioned above, trying to satisfy her will be like trying to fill the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun.

Significantly, the behaviors you describe -- the abandonment fear, controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and verbal abuse -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. I therefore suggest you read my brief description of what it was like to live with a BPDer. My post appears in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522.

If that description rings a bell and most of the red flags sound very familiar, I would encourage you to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. I also would be glad to discuss the BPD traits with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Sully.

 

[sully83]

@uptown. I tried to ask her and talk civilized about being in the FBI or another agency and hinting that they require you to move(this is all out to dinner). she instantly blew up and said you know i cant move i told you that from the beginning. i asked if she would atleast be willing to try to work something out with her ex and coldly she said no. When we were apart when i broke up with her when i was in MA she said if she finds a way to move to MA could it work? now shes not even willing to have a discussion with her ex. she does call text a couple times a day and email but i have limited time to respond many days. yesterday (wednesday) i left her a nice message on facebook which she loves for everyone to see. i called her from work to tell her i love her and i sent her a couple emails and texted her before work... when i got home we were laying down after dinner and she said do you love me so much? i said yes! she said how much and we went back and forth then it changed to "it did not feel like it today i didnt feel like i had a husband" this is a typical statement she makes to me. From all i read from you and the other threads you had links to i am pretty convinced she is a BPD.

 

[sully83]

So this morning i get up do dishes and get the boy ready for school. She makes it a point to walk right by me and tell him she loves him and hug/ kiss him goodbye. I say bye hunnie and go to hug/kiss her and she drapes her arms by her side looks away so i kiss her cheek and just "bye" is all i get. I really feel like i am a good guy, i clean, take care of the boy, school, work, and i dont rarely even go out maybe once a month to a friends house never to a bar. I dont even drink at home. I have not bought a bottle of alcohol since june and its still sealed. I am going to try to talk to her tonight or should i try to see a psyc myself first? If so should i tell her im going or keep it to myself

 

[Uptown]

I am pretty convinced she is a BPD.

Sully, given that the BPD red flags sound very familiar to you, I have several suggestions.

As an initial matter, I recommend that you NOT tell her about your suspicions. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Because projection works entirely at the subconscious level (to protect her fragile ego), she likely will become absolutely convinced you suffer from BPD. So, instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her.

Second, if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get Stop Walking on Eggshells, the best-selling BPD book targeted to abused spouses like you. Or, if you are decided to get a divorce instead, get Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist. Both books are written by the same author. If you divorce, the second book is especially important because divorcing a BPDer gets nasty real quick (my exW had me thrown into jail on a bogus charge so she could evict me from my own home for the 18 months it takes to get a divorce in this State).

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Staying" board and "Leaving" board.

Fourth, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is "Surviving a Breakup with Someone with BPD" at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

Fifth, given what is at stake, I suggest you not be content with being "pretty convinced" she has strong BPD traits. It would be prudent to see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. As I've explained in many other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along.

Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers (much less their husbands) the name of the disorder. For an explanation of why you cannot rely on HER therapist for candid information, please see my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/48178-its-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909.

Sixth, I strongly recommend that, if you continue to have sex with her, you use protection and not rely on her claims that she is religiously taking the pill. If she has strong BPD traits, she is so emotionally unstable and so fearful of abandonment that there is risk she may see pregnancy as an insurance policy, keeping you from running away. Having a child with a BPDer means you will be connected to her for at least 18 years even if you do divorce. And it means your child will be at greater risk of developing a mental disorder, because BPD is believed to be partly the result of genetics and partly due to the childhood environment.

Finally, please don't forget those of us here on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, your shared experiences likely will help numerous other members and lurkers.

 

[FirstYearDown]

I just was recently married June 2nd to an older woman shes 28 i am 25(almost). I hardly think being three years your senior qualifies her as an "older woman." At this point i do not know who to turn to. If i talk to her about things i do not like she gets mad and says what are you doing with me if i am such a horrible wife. This behavior is very immature. I can only understand her being defensive if you approach her in a disrespecful manner.So one of he main issues is she constantly is telling me "baby dont ever cheat on me, baby never hurt, baby are you cheating on me" on an almost daily basis. If i am late at all form work anything beyond 15 min shes calling texting and asking where i am am i cheating on her. I had a new colleague start working with me and shes pretty but really nothing special. So of course the question comes up i said yeah shes pretty and she gets mad and jealous.I have severe trust issues from watching all the men in my family cheat. Has your wife been cheated on in the past? Did she see a lot of infidelity in her life? These reasons could be why she does not trust you. If you have not given her a reason to doubt your fidelity, this is a problem that your wife needs to attend therapy for. My trust issues are MY cross to bear. I refuse to treat my husband like he is a cheater because he has not done anything that I am aware of. This is what I tell myself to manage my insecurity and emotional trauma. I wouldn't tell an insecure spouse that a coworker was pretty; that is just fanning the flames. I talked about running for exercise and doing marathons at work and the new girl told me her and her bf do together. I thought that would be a great idea for me and my wife to try. Immediately she asked why do you want me to run with you who runs at work oh why dont you go run with the new girl. i just do not know what to do to make her understand i wont cheat on her; i have no desire to see anyone else let alone be with anyone else. I left my family friends an awesome workplace and opportunity in MA to move to be with her in PA where she is tied to because of her first husband with whom she has a 4 yr old. I work M W F 9-7 sat and sun 9-330 and school 8-5 during the week. i cook i clean i do laundry i help with the little one as any good parent should i vacuum i do dishes yard work ect ect ect.What housework does your wife do? Looks like there is a lack of fair division of household labour. Did her ex husband sleep around while she was married to him? All you can do is keep reassuring your wife, while setting some boundaries about her mistrust. the other day i made it a point to drive across town to see her at her work on my lunch break and bring her her favorite coffee. she lovedddd it. tonight she was saying how she had a headache the last two days and doesnt feel good so i was looking up flowers to send her on the computer and she came down stairs. she asked for the laptop and i said no then panicked and restarted it so she wouldnt see me trying to place the order. Ehhh...glad you see how suspicious that would make anyone. Why couldn't you just say it was a surprise for her? You seem like a very kind and loving husband.i understand that could look suspicious i really do but even if i told her the truth she would not believe me. Nothing else i have ever done has warranted any suspicious mainly because i have nothing at all to hide. i dont go out to the bars or clubs, hell i dont even go to the gym.. i tried to go early a.m before work and she go mad at me going all the time. Your wife has control issues. A marriage should not be a prison sentence. What would have happened if you spent some mornings at home and went to the gym a few times a week? This would show your wife that you will not let her insecurities hold you back, yet you want to compromise.

Sorry if this is too long of a post just getting everything off my chest, (newbie to here).

I also really love cars. I have a nice car that i like to do little modifications to here and there and keep it clean. If i go outside to do anything to it she gets mad and rolls her eyes and is like oh my good you really need to do that now. average i clean it once every week or two. Only other hobby of mine is football. I watch it on sunday and i like to have a friend over with me. She got mad because he came over i wouldnt ride with her, leave him, drive across town to her ex's with her to pick up her son. i dont do this every sunday nor is it feasible with my schedule. I think your wife is unreasonable and bossy. Stand up for yourself! You teach people how to treat you. It's like she doesn't want you to have a life outside her.

Can someone please help? or help me see the perspective from her i am not seeing? i feeling like i gave up everything to start a new life out here and i do all i can around the house plus work and school and it is never enough. if i dont go to bed with her and stay up late to study or watch tv downstairs she says she feels like shes doesnt have a husband. Your wife needs help. I see some abandonment issues here. She told me yesterday she feels like i dont love her and/or not as much as she loves me. I leave her little comments on fb telling her i love her i send txt messages and leave i love u messages on her calender but it never seems to be enough.... HELPPPP!

I recommend individual therapy for both of you. Your wife needs to realize that suffocating you with her insecurities and unreasonable demands will ruin your marriage. She needs to get to the root of her lack of trust and neediness. Perhaps some hobbies of her own would help. You need a counselor to help you set boundaries and not allow yourself to be controlled. It seems like you are being emotionally abused.

 

[Viseral]

Uptown, you've enlightened me more than I can express. Thank you. Reading your post on BPD made me realize so many things about my lost marriage. I only lasted two years being married to some one with severe abandonment issues. Everyday was like walking on egg shells and I was made to feel like a criminal in my own home. Everything was my fault and nothing I ever did was enough to make her happy, even though I felt like I was a pretty good guy. Thankfully, my freedom only cost me $150,000.

 

[WalterWhite]

Sully, does your wife have Borderline Personality Disorder? She sounds like the wife I once had years ago; like her twin. If she does have BPD, then you have no choice but to get out and fast. BPD has no cure, and you can NEVER EVER have sustained joy with such a person.

Never!

No doctor can fix her, there is no cure, there is no cure...get out! If you find a doctor that claims she/he can fix her, the are lying. If you value your own life, your future, your pursuit of happiness, you must leave this evil woman. Yes BPD people are evil!

 

[WalterWhite]

Uptown, you've enlightened me more than I can express. Thank you. Reading your post on BPD made me realize so many things about my lost marriage. I only lasted two years being married to some one with severe abandonment issues. Everyday was like walking on egg shells and I was made to feel like a criminal in my own home. Everything was my fault and nothing I ever did was enough to make her happy, even though I felt like I was a pretty good guy. Thankfully, my freedom only cost me $150,000.

Mine lasted 1 year, and cost me $120,000! That was 8 years ago, but today I am exceedingly hopelessly happy with my current wife. So there can be life after BPD ;-)

 

[WalterWhite]

I recommend individual therapy for both of you. Your wife needs to realize that suffocating you with her insecurities and unreasonable demands will ruin your marriage. She needs to get to the root of her lack of trust and neediness. Perhaps some hobbies of her own would help. You need a counselor to help you set boundaries and not allow yourself to be controlled. It seems like you are being emotionally abused.

Therapy to fix this marriage is just throwing away money, time, and mental health....it is not fixable, and there is no better choice then for him to leave her ASAP.

 

[sully83]

Well i talked to my best friend today and my mom. She told.me to go he said work.on it. I tried texti.g ber a couple times today withoutan answer. I picked up thd boy after school and made dinner and cleaned as normal. She came home went straight to his bedroom and didnt say a word to me. I told her i made dinner she said im not hungry. Then i stayed in the boys room and started to play with his dart gun. She got.up and left to the bedroom. I followed and askdd her whats wrong whats going on? I said why didnt you answer me today. She didnt answer. I said why are you acting this way she said im not acting a yway(in a low sad quiet voice) i said well when you are ready to talk to me like we are adults and tell me whats on your mind let me know. She kept quiet and stared through me at the tv.ive asked to see my college councilor and have an appointment tuesday.
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[Uptown]

She didnt answer. ...She kept quiet and stared through me at the tv.

Sully, at risk of overwhelming you with information, I want you to know that nearly all the BPD information you find online will describe BPDers as throwing temper tantrums and yelling when their anger is triggered. The vast majority of BPDers do exactly that, turning their anger outward on the spouse when it is triggered. This is why "acting out" is so strongly associated with BPDers.

It is important to know, however, that a substantial share of BPDers (perhaps 10-15%) usually release their anger by "acting in" instead. That is, they turn the anger inward when it is released. Significantly, this does NOT mean you will escape punishment. Rather, it only means you will be punished with icy withdrawal and cold passive-aggressive remarks instead of with the yelling and screaming that is far more common.

I mention this only because you've made several statements, like the one quoted above, where you describe your W as being cold and refusing to speak to you. I therefore am cautioning you against ruling out BPD traits if you find your W to predominantly punish you with coldness, withdrawal, and silence. The BPDers who behave that way most of the time when they are angry are usually called "quiet borderlines."

If that seems applicable to your W, you may want to read about it. I've found only two really good articles online. One is by therapist Shari Schreiber, who calls these people "waif borderlines." Her article is at BORDERLINE WAIFS AND UNSUNG HEROES; Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved..

Whereas Schreiber emphasizes the "oh poor little me, I am such a victim" aspect of this behavior, A.J. Mahari has an article emphasizing the icy coldness aspect of such personalities. Mahari's article is at Borderline Personality - The Quiet Acting In Borderline and The Silent Treatment - Nons - Borderline Personality Disorder Inside Out. Between the two articles, I suspect you will find the Schreiber article more likely to apply to what you've described.

Again, I stress that I do not know whether your W has strong BPD traits. Indeed, I've never even met the young lady. I nonetheless am confident you will be able to spot the red flags, if any exist, after taking time to read about them.

 

[sully83]

She flipped out when i went to class and said she doesnt deserve to be cheated on. I said i am only goin to class andbifbu dont lile sometjing u can leave she said ine i will ill find sonewhere to go
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[sharkeey]

I said i am only goin to class andbifbu dont lile sometjing u can leave she said ine i will ill find sonewhere to go

Progress!

 

[alloutoflove]

Hi Sully83:
Have you done n e thing to make your wife distrust you? Are your friends bad influences?