His faith may tell him differently.
Wife apparently cheated last year.
I really have no idea how to handle this situation. I always thought If my wife ever cheated on me it would be a very clear cut decision. Leave. I never thought I would be...paralyzed is the best way to describe it. Not so much in fear, even though that is one of the feelings I am having but, also shock. I am currently sitting in a hotel room (work related) ten hours away from her and our home and I have no idea what to say, do, think, etc. I’ve been on autopilot since I found out yesterday afternoon. I have only spoken to her briefly and have not mentioned anything about what I know. My emotions are all over the place.
I guess some details are needed. We have been married for four years. I am 32 and she is 31. No children but recently made the decision to start trying. Obviously that’s going to stop. I was notified by the spouse of the guy she was cheating on me with. She provided a couple of pictures via text. One that showed them kissing at her car. The other of them coming out of what is apparently a motel room. She says she has a portable thumb drive for me if I want it. It has everything her investigator gathered that pertains to my wife. She wants to meet up and give me the drive and apologize in person for waiting for so long to come forward, as well as answer any questions I might have. She talked quite a bit but honestly, I only remember bits and pieces of it.
I need to leave for a work meeting and honestly I don’t have it in me to post the details of what I know right now but I will. Right now I just don’t know what I need. Other than sleep
I guess some details are needed. We have been married for four years. I am 32 and she is 31. No children but recently made the decision to start trying. Obviously that’s going to stop. I was notified by the spouse of the guy she was cheating on me with. She provided a couple of pictures via text. One that showed them kissing at her car. The other of them coming out of what is apparently a motel room. She says she has a portable thumb drive for me if I want it. It has everything her investigator gathered that pertains to my wife. She wants to meet up and give me the drive and apologize in person for waiting for so long to come forward, as well as answer any questions I might have. She talked quite a bit but honestly, I only remember bits and pieces of it.
I need to leave for a work meeting and honestly I don’t have it in me to post the details of what I know right now but I will. Right now I just don’t know what I need. Other than sleep
5641 - 5660 of 5728 Posts
If they share a child together, there are benefits to being married. The way people talk about it, I often wonder what they think the point of marriage is. As I see it, there are two primary purposes for marriage: (1) a mutual sexual exclusivity contract (call me old fashioned, if you want) and (2) a stable mutal platform under which to have a family. I don't seem much point to it otherwise. While his wife failed in their previous marriage on (1), they could re-establish (1) and (2) would be valuable given that they already share a child together. He could better protect himself financially the second time with a prenuptial agreement.My advice would be that not all relationships need to end in marriage. It would be a very hefty decision to tie yourself financially to the same person twice.
A modern development, seeing marriage as nothing more than a “special relationship status”. If that’s what you view marriage to be then there’s really zero point in getting married at all.If they share a child together, there are benefits to being married. The way people talk about it, I often wonder what they think the point of marriage is. As I see it, there are two primary purposes for marriage: (1) a mutual sexual exclusivity contract (call me old fashioned, if you want) and (2) a stable mutal platform under which to have a family. I don't seem much point to it otherwise. While his wife failed in their previous marriage on (1), the could re-establish (1) and (2) would be valuable given that they already share a child together. He could better protect himself financially the second time with a prenuptial agreement.
Marriage is pretty ubiquitous across humanity as a "special relationship status", even in ancient times and primitive cultures. What do you think the point of getting married is? What do you think is a "modern development"?A modern development, seeing marriage as nothing more than a “special relationship status”. If that’s what you view marriage to be then there’s really zero point in getting married at all.
Marriage is a vocation and backed by a solemn vow. And if you’re looking to get philosophical then marriage specifically is a sacrifice. You’re dying to yourself to better the life of your spouse with the idea they’ll do the same for you.Marriage is pretty ubiquitous across humanity as a "special relationship status", even in ancient times and primitive cultures. What do you think the point of getting married is? What do you think is a "modern development"?
What I mean by “special relationship status” and what’s modernistic is the shallowed out view or marriage being a relationship level. IE if you like a person you date as boyfriend girlfriend. Then if you like them even more you get engaged and finally when you like them even more you get married.
This is a completely hollow notion as it reduces marriage from a vocation to nothing more than glorified boyfriend/girlfriend.
I don’t want to go too far down the hijacking this thread train though.
I think that's a fine way to look at it, too, but it doesn't really address the point or expectations of entering into one, which was my focus. The sacrifice aspect you talk about underlies both of the points I made, which is about commitment and no longer being just an individual but forming a family with your spouse and children. In that regard, I see family as a real bond here.Marriage is a vocation and backed by a solemn vow. And if you’re looking to get philosophical then marriage specifically is a sacrifice. You’re dying to yourself to better the life of your spouse with the idea they’ll do the same for you.
I think that's a fair criticism, and not what I was talking about. Thanks for the response.What I mean by “special relationship status” and what’s modernistic is the shallowed out view or marriage being a relationship level. IE if you like a person you date as boyfriend girlfriend. Then if you like them even more you get engaged and finally when you like them even more you get married.
This is a completely hollow notion as it reduces marriage from a vocation to nothing more than glorified boyfriend/girlfriend.
I'm going to skip the debate on what marriage is or isn't and answer a private message publicly.
Her crying is shame. Pure and simple.
She finds herself with what she wanted. An attempt to R and now that she has it she feels she doesn't deserve it.
She desperately wants to lean on me for support for this but again feels shame for putting that burden on me since her affair has caused this issue.
I have assured her I am willing to help her but the relief she gets is temporary and guilt sets in. She can't seem to get out of her own way. I'm not upset with her nor am I resentful that she appears to need my help recovering from her affair more than I need hers at times. My needs are different.
My concern is not that she is harming our chance at R but that she is harming herself by not allowing herself to accept what happened and build on her knowledge of what led her down that path.
She continues her ic. I have stopped couples counseling for now. She needs to work on her. I've committed to R and I am all in on helping her.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Her crying is shame. Pure and simple.
She finds herself with what she wanted. An attempt to R and now that she has it she feels she doesn't deserve it.
She desperately wants to lean on me for support for this but again feels shame for putting that burden on me since her affair has caused this issue.
I have assured her I am willing to help her but the relief she gets is temporary and guilt sets in. She can't seem to get out of her own way. I'm not upset with her nor am I resentful that she appears to need my help recovering from her affair more than I need hers at times. My needs are different.
My concern is not that she is harming our chance at R but that she is harming herself by not allowing herself to accept what happened and build on her knowledge of what led her down that path.
She continues her ic. I have stopped couples counseling for now. She needs to work on her. I've committed to R and I am all in on helping her.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
It sounds like she can’t forgive herself. Besides the IC is she getting any spiritual councilling?I'm going to skip the debate on what marriage is or isn't and answer a private message publicly.
Her crying is shame. Pure and simple.
She finds herself with what she wanted. An attempt to R and now that she has it she feels she doesn't deserve it.
She desperately wants to lean on me for support for this but again feels shame for putting that burden on me since her affair has caused this issue.
I have assured her I am willing to help her but the relief she gets is temporary and guilt sets in. She can't seem to get out of her own way. I'm not upset with her nor am I resentful that she appears to need my help recovering from her affair more than I need hers at times. My needs are different.
My concern is not that she is harming our chance at R but that she is harming herself by not allowing herself to accept what happened and build on her knowledge of what led her down that path.
She continues her ic. I have stopped couples counseling for now. She needs to work on her. I've committed to R and I am all in on helping her.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
@VintageRetro
She is a Christian, yes? She needs to accept Jesus sacrifice for her sins and accept forgiveness. She is living in the past and needs to move into the present. She should focus on being thankful for the second chance and focus on having a grateful heart, putting the past behind her.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
She is a Christian, yes? She needs to accept Jesus sacrifice for her sins and accept forgiveness. She is living in the past and needs to move into the present. She should focus on being thankful for the second chance and focus on having a grateful heart, putting the past behind her.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
It's complicated on the religious front for her. She was a strict Catholic her entire childhood. Catholic schools the whole works. Not making any sweeping accusations or stereotypes here but she was/is the embodiment of Catholic guilt. It was what kept her from dealing properly with her teenage drinking and other issues. Not the church per se but her mother and grandmother and other family members who drummed into her that "good little Catholic girls don't do this or that". It can happen with any religion I would say.
She's working on it. Right now I believe that it is more important for this family long term for her to focus on that than R. She's still able to put forth what needs to be done to move our R along. I believe right now though more effort needs to be placed on herself.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
She's working on it. Right now I believe that it is more important for this family long term for her to focus on that than R. She's still able to put forth what needs to be done to move our R along. I believe right now though more effort needs to be placed on herself.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
A lot of catholic school kids aren’t properly catechized these days which can cause some spiritual confusion and issues later in life. Has she gone to confession and confessed the affair?It's complicated on the religious front for her. She was a strict Catholic her entire childhood. Catholic schools the whole works. Not making any sweeping accusations or stereotypes here but she was/is the embodiment of Catholic guilt. It was what kept her from dealing properly with her teenage drinking and other issues. Not the church per se but her mother and grandmother and other family members who drummed into her that "good little Catholic girls don't do this or that". It can happen with any religion I would say.
She's working on it. Right now I believe that it is more important for this family long term for her to focus on that than R. She's still able to put forth what needs to be done to move our R along. I believe right now though more effort needs to be placed on herself.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Perhaps she needs to speak with a priest who can remind her that once she’s confessed she’d been forgiven by Christ and can then forgive herself.
That's sad because if she has confessed to God then she is forgiven. The last thing God would want is for her to keep beating herself up and I hope she can accept that. The RC church has a lot to answer for. I hope she finds a church that can teach the truth.It's complicated on the religious front for her. She was a strict Catholic her entire childhood. Catholic schools the whole works. Not making any sweeping accusations or stereotypes here but she was/is the embodiment of Catholic guilt. It was what kept her from dealing properly with her teenage drinking and other issues. Not the church per se but her mother and grandmother and other family members who drummed into her that "good little Catholic girls don't do this or that". It can happen with any religion I would say.
She's working on it. Right now I believe that it is more important for this family long term for her to focus on that than R. She's still able to put forth what needs to be done to move our R along. I believe right now though more effort needs to be placed on herself.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
She has not attended Catholic mass since before she met me. Her mother and father both left the church for all practical purposes after their divorce. It's confusing to me and I can only guess how confusing it was for her. She used to have very long discussions about faith with my father and she is having more of these with me now. I believe part of her issue is a crisis of faith much like I was experiencing. And to some extent still working through.A lot of catholic school kids aren’t properly catechized these days which can cause some spiritual confusion and issues later in life. Has she gone to confession and confessed the affair?
Perhaps she needs to speak with a priest who can remind her that once she’s confessed she’d been forgiven by Christ and can then forgive herself.
I truly believe that time is needed along with careful guidance. She needs to find this on her own but she also needs to allow me to at least provide some support.
My faith teaches that the husband is the spiritual leader in the family. I am willing to do that and capable with God's guidance but she has to get past the feelings of guilt and shame. Allow me to help and then she is capable of working through our R in a more healthy manner.
Now with all of this said, I don't want everyone thinking this is our life right now. We are getting along. She is doing her part to repair what she has broken. We are enjoying our life right now as much as we can given the circumstances. This is just a hurdle that has to be dealt with and not swept under the rug. Something like this can cause resentment down the road. So please don't think we are not having good days. We are having a lot of good days.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Please do not misunderstand me, I believe any religion can cause this issue. Doctrine without proper context and guidance can lead to many issues.That's sad because if she has confessed to God then she is forgiven. The last thing God would want is for her to keep beating herself up and I hope she can accept that. The RC church has a lot to answer for. I hope she finds a church that can teach the truth.
I'm not accusing you of this but I don't want this to devolve into a Catholic church/religion bashing thing. I'm only using your post to put out that request. People are very reactive and I don't want to lose the focus of this thread.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
You are an amazing husband. I know you're not married anymore, but I think you possess the qualities that make an exceptional husband. You have demonstrated a remarkable balance between asserting your own needs and showing boundless compassion and love. It's evident that your ex needs to find a way to move forward despite the shame she feels. However, her remorse and determination to make amends make her a rare example of a WS who truly understands the gravity of her actions and is sincerely working towards reconciliation. Furthermore, the fact that you are concerned about her shame, resulting from her wrongdoing towards you, is a testament to your strength, level-headedness, and compassionate nature. These qualities are all indicative of a remarkable husband, IMO.I'm going to skip the debate on what marriage is or isn't and answer a private message publicly.
Her crying is shame. Pure and simple.
She finds herself with what she wanted. An attempt to R and now that she has it she feels she doesn't deserve it.
She desperately wants to lean on me for support for this but again feels shame for putting that burden on me since her affair has caused this issue.
I have assured her I am willing to help her but the relief she gets is temporary and guilt sets in. She can't seem to get out of her own way. I'm not upset with her nor am I resentful that she appears to need my help recovering from her affair more than I need hers at times. My needs are different.
My concern is not that she is harming our chance at R but that she is harming herself by not allowing herself to accept what happened and build on her knowledge of what led her down that path.
She continues her ic. I have stopped couples counseling for now. She needs to work on her. I've committed to R and I am all in on helping her.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Penance is part of the sacrament of reconciliation. Have you tried prodding her as to what an appropriate penance for her sins would be? Of course being a reformed catholic, I'd suggest the Serinity prayer over hail mary's or our fathers. Nightly even. Maybe an act(s) of service. Something to put a final footnote to it so she can leave it in the past where it belongs to be the best partner and mother she can be going forward. Even if she doesn't feel she deserves it, she should recognize that you and your son deserve her best and her shame is keeping her from giving it to you.
Yes we don't really want to start in on the origins of the Protestant church or the Church of England and how it came to be, do we @Diana?
VR there is a difference between faith, religion, institutionalism and spiritualism. Is she a spiritual person, VR?
VR there is a difference between faith, religion, institutionalism and spiritualism. Is she a spiritual person, VR?
Just knowing where her burden of guilt comes from. Its not from God. I always feel so sad when I come across people who cant let go of guilt when God let it go a long time ago. 😢Yes we don't really want to start in on the origins of the Protestant church or the Church of England and how it came to be, do we @Diana?
VR there is a difference between faith, religion, institutionalism and spiritualism. Is she a spiritual person, VR?
These are usually personal issues though. A lot of people when they do something wrong and are forgiven (not just by God) just don’t know how to forgive themselves and that absolutely takes a toll on them. It’s something they have to learn and work through.Just knowing where her burden of guilt comes from. Its not from God. I always feel so sad when I come across people who cant let go of guilt when God let it go a long time ago. 😢
I just want to add that I don't think that retaining some degree of guilt and shame is a terrible thing. Most humans have a conscience and experience guilt and shame for a reason. A key characteristic of Cluster B personality disorders is a subdued or absent conscience, which is why a disproportionately large number of cheaters as well as criminals and awful people come from that group as well as a lot of the predators that pursue and persuade others to cheat. They don't feel guilt or shame (or do at a subdued level), which enables them to lie to, cheat on, use, and abuse others with reckless abandon and not feel bad about it and it's why they often seem so confident (they don't second-guess themselves or worry much about making mistakes because they won't feel bad about them). Media and leadership has a lot of them, so they seem like role-models, but I'm not sure it's great to be encouraging people to emulate and think like psychopaths.
My point? It's a good thing that your ex has a conscience. And while it's not good for her to have crippling guilt or shame, feeling bad about what she did and remember her role in it, feel bad about it, and the consequences she paid for it is necessary to make her a better person who won't repeat those mistakes ever again.
From the religious angle, here is the 1966 movie "The Bible: In the Beginning" which is a movie version of some of the earliest Bible stories:
The depiction of Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel in that movie left a big impression on me as a kid. While I know the orthodox Christian view is that humans fell because of Adam and Eve's sin, I've always felt that the Garden of Eden story was more broadly a commentary on human nature and that we are all essentially Adam, Eve, and Cain who will give into temptation do awful things when confronted with temptation or out of selfishness or pride. In fact, I think a big way in which we went astray is that most people no longer talk about temptation and weakness. We're told that if we're strong and independent, we can handle temptation and anyone telling us to avoid temptation is controlling or a prude. Had your ex-wife thought to avoid temptation instead of entertaining it, things might have played out differently.
The idea that we can handle temptation because we're good people is pride, and as Proverb 16:18 points out:
"Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall."
My point? It's a good thing that your ex has a conscience. And while it's not good for her to have crippling guilt or shame, feeling bad about what she did and remember her role in it, feel bad about it, and the consequences she paid for it is necessary to make her a better person who won't repeat those mistakes ever again.
From the religious angle, here is the 1966 movie "The Bible: In the Beginning" which is a movie version of some of the earliest Bible stories:
The depiction of Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel in that movie left a big impression on me as a kid. While I know the orthodox Christian view is that humans fell because of Adam and Eve's sin, I've always felt that the Garden of Eden story was more broadly a commentary on human nature and that we are all essentially Adam, Eve, and Cain who will give into temptation do awful things when confronted with temptation or out of selfishness or pride. In fact, I think a big way in which we went astray is that most people no longer talk about temptation and weakness. We're told that if we're strong and independent, we can handle temptation and anyone telling us to avoid temptation is controlling or a prude. Had your ex-wife thought to avoid temptation instead of entertaining it, things might have played out differently.
The idea that we can handle temptation because we're good people is pride, and as Proverb 16:18 points out:
"Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall."
5641 - 5660 of 5728 Posts
Talk About Marriage
A forum community dedicated to married life between you and your spouse. Come join the discussion about love, romance, health, behavior, conflict resolution, care, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top Contributors this Month
View All
DownByTheRiver
807 Replies
RandomDude
549 Replies
heather42
439 Replies
Recommended Communities
