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VR – no harsh judgment here. When I read through your thread (I’ve actually read twice), there was spot that pulled at me. When you met your EX , you instantly “knew”. I also had some sort of kismet moment when I met my wife. In her words, we “imprinted.” Even on the first reading of your posts when they appeared, I had that same sense for you. I am not a hopeless romantic claptrap swallower. Nor am I sanguine about reconciliation in general. But having read hundreds and hundreds of posts and stories on these sites…no one has a better shot at succeeding than you and Ex.

Re: TAM. Bobert may be right about taking a break. He’s lived this so his advice has weight. I’m not a BS and can only offer advice as some one in a happy long term marriage. Stumbling upon TAM has been wonderful for me in looking at my marriage. Even if you choose not to post, it may be worthwhile to look at some of the threads that do not involve infidelity. In these pages you will see the glories …and failures of men and women who are trying to work through marriage. Often in marriages completely unaffected by infidelity. Point is, marriages can fail for many reasons besides infidelity…and if you look at the stories of men and women who seem to be thriving, I suspect you will find ways forward that will work regardless of past infidelity. At a minimum, you and Ex will see pitfalls to avoid.

I’m sure you’re wishing your dad was there to bounce things off of. We all do. I have a son not a whole lot younger than you. I can say I’d be proud of him if he handled his situation anywhere near as well you have, and I’d support him if he chose to try to rebuild his family in circumstances similar to yours.

All the best.
 

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VR, two other things I forgot to say in my original post:
1) This is YOUR life, not anyone on TAM, or friends, or..... This is YOUR decision. If people rail against that, too bad. YOU have to decide for your life and have people support you on that. They MAY say they don't agree, but since it is YOUR decision, once they have done that, they need to help you with the path you have chosen, not continually bash you about it.

2) You didn't jump into this decision to R 2 days after you found out. It doesn't seem like you made a rash emotional decision to R. You really did some soul searching and THOUGHT about this. That makes for a much clearer mind while you go through the R process. Again, best of luck with this!
 

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I spoke to my ex yesterday and I have decided to give her the chance to R.

I have spent the past few weeks talking, thinking, and praying about this and it is what I want to do. I have spent the last year living a life I never enjoyed. Doing things and acting in a manner contrary to who I am. It's taken a toll on me emotionally and spiritually. She has been constant in her desire to do whatever I needed to heal. Last week we had a couple's counseling session. The goal was to speak to a professional on what we were facing and how we would need to go about R. He's good. Really good. Was to the point and very detailed on what we were facing. He encouraged both of us to take three days and really think it through before deciding. He even helped us make a list of things to think about. For example..

Can we handle family and friends that are not happy with R?

How does she feel about my sexual partners over the past year?

Things of that nature.

On Friday I spoke to her and told her that I would commit to attempting R. No promises just my word that I would put forth my best .

We are not moving back in together. This will be more like a dating and getting to know each other all over again. There's been no intimacy at this point. Physical contact has been a hug and hand hold yesterday with more of the same at lunch today. We have another couple session Monday evening and we look to begin the heavy lifting then. Until that time it's been light conversation and spending time together alone. She's beyond excited but very understanding that we are just starting a long journey and it might not end the way she wants it. Our biggest hurdle I believe is going too fast. Falling back into old habits out of familiarity. That and my issues with physical touch between us. I'm also sure triggers will be a big one too.

I'm not sure what to do about TAM. I've gotten a lot of help here that I truly appreciate. But this is not a place I believe to be R friendly. I don't want an echo chamber but at th same time this can be a very judgemental place with some members so hurt by their pain that it's unsettling. I'm a man. I can take it. But do I want the mental and emotional drain that comes from that type of negative attacks. And TAM is not unique to this type of reactions. Other sites are the same.

Anyway, I felt like since all of you have been on this ride with me I wanted to let you know the latest. I hope you can respect this decision and the thought and prayers that went into making it. I'm taking a leap of faith and I understand that faith was abused in the past. I need to try this for my own sake.

For those of you that believe in prayer. I need them. We need them. For those of you that don't we need you also.

Thank you.


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VR:
I am happy to read your post. In your case I am pro reconciliation. When I pm'd you privately I stated that your situation was different. Your BS had a relatively brief affair and stopped it on her own. Your BS physically attacked her AP when she thought he had hurt you. You did not have to catch your BS for her to stop. She knew it was wrong, self-regulated and stopped on her own. There is genuine love between you and your ex-wife, as stated by your previous MC. Your ex-wife certainly needs to continue IC to ensure that she understands the series of events that led her to make some bad choices. As you discovered her background contained somethings that contributed to what happened.

You needed to divorce your wife in order to make her pay the price for destroying you and the marriage. In addition, the separation has made it clear that you are not happy being divorced from her. Always follow your gut and your gut is telling you to R. You and your ex-wife can rebuild a stronger marriage than you had before but it will take time. In a previous thread I read it took the couple 6 months before they touched physically and a year before they could have sex. You are already hugging and holding hands. It is quite clear you want to be with each other. In the threads that I have read you will have triggers that will cause extreme sadness and might even momentarily paralyze you. Those triggers will dissipate with time. The key is communication. You and your ex-wife will learn how to deal with these triggers. She will help you threw them. It took 2 years for complete R. If I remember the thread, I will forward it to you. The key here is that both of you genuinely love each other. If you can understand that there may be some lingering side effects that will improve with time you can R.

My best wishes. Please keep us posted.
 

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I don't consider myself either pro nor anti reconciliation as a concept.

But I am very pro self advocacy and self preservation.

Reconciliation is a gift given to the WS by the BS. The WS is not owed or entitled to any kind of reconciliation attempt.

And if R is granted by the BS, it needs to be on their terms and their criteria and with the understanding that reconciliation can be revoked at any time for any or even no reason.

My recommendation for R would be for the BS to basically always have a clear exit route and make clear to the WS that they will never be fully trusted and never be on equal footing within the relationship. They would be a guest and their welcome would depend on their behavior.

If my son or brother or best friend were to take a WW back, I would advise against ever conjoining finances (which I don't believe in that much anyway) or having the WS' name on the lease/deed or any joint property such both names on the car title etc etc. Nor would I ever advise a WS to be a SAHM or to be fully supported by the BH. As stated above, consider the WW a guest in the relationship expected to contribute and pay their share.

In the case of a R being attempted after a divorce, I wouldn't advise marrying again. After going through the division of property and assets and custody arrangements etc once, The BS may be too hesitant to pull the ejection handle again if the WS were to reoffend. The ejection handle always needs to be within reach and be willing to pull it at any time.

To use Richards Cooper's analogy, hire slow and fire fast.

If the WS is not agreeable to those terms... well then maybe the OM may come around and offer a better deal more to her liking.
 

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I'm not sure what to do about TAM. I've gotten a lot of help here that I truly appreciate. But this is not a place I believe to be R friendly. I don't want an echo chamber but at th same time this can be a very judgemental place with some members so hurt by their pain that it's unsettling. I'm a man. I can take it. But do I want the mental and emotional drain that comes from that type of negative attacks. And TAM is not unique to this type of reactions. Other sites are the same.
You might want to start a new thread in the reconcilliation forum. There are plenty of people who'll be more than happy to help you with different perspectives and things you may not be actively thinking of on this journey as well.

Whatever you choose, I wish you well.

Also, I don't think you're making a poor choice. It's not flippant. It's not without reflection. It's not without consequence for your ex-wife. Everyone lost. Hopefully, everyone's learned. At this moment though, I'm mostly happy that you've found a third party that you're comfortable working with to help you on your journey. It'll make a huge difference.
 

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I don't consider myself either pro nor anti reconciliation as a concept.

But I am very pro self advocacy and self preservation.

Reconciliation is a gift given to the WS by the BS. The WS is not owed or entitled to any kind of reconciliation attempt.

And if R is granted by the BS, it needs to be on their terms and their criteria and with the understanding that reconciliation can be revoked at any time for any or even no reason.

My recommendation for R would be for the BS to basically always have a clear exit route and make clear to the WS that they will never be fully trusted and never be on equal footing within the relationship. They would be a guest and their welcome would depend on their behavior.

If my son or brother or best friend were to take a WW back, I would advise against ever conjoining finances (which I don't believe in that much anyway) or having the WS' name on the lease/deed or any joint property such both names on the car title etc etc. Nor would I ever advise a WS to be a SAHM or to be fully supported by the BH. As stated above, consider the WW a guest in the relationship expected to contribute and pay their share.

In the case of a R being attempted after a divorce, I wouldn't advise marrying again. After going through the division of property and assets and custody arrangements etc once, The BS may be too hesitant to pull the ejection handle again if the WS were to reoffend. The ejection handle always needs to be within reach and be willing to pull it at any time.

To use Richards Cooper's analogy, hire slow and fire fast.

If the WS is not agreeable to those terms... well then maybe the OM may come around and offer a better deal more to her liking.
I agree that a BS needs to protect themselves, but what you wrote here is not reconciliation. A couple who is living like that has not truly reconciled, is not committed to R, and has not moved forward.

I think any half-decent former WS will always worry that their BS can leave at any point, but they shouldn't be living in constant fear. That isn't helpful at all and makes R a lot harder, if not impossible.
 

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VR - your WW does seem to be a rare but legit candidate to contemplate R with. If you ever consider marrying her again, I hope you’ll have an ironclad pre-nup in place, allowing you to terminate for any reason and for favorable terms. She knows you won’t be out to ruin the mother of your child but this agreement might help you sleep more soundly, fwiw.
 

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VR I agree with so many on here that this is great news about possible reconciliation.

You really seem to have thought this through properly and have a sustainable plan in place.

Personally, I would be sorry to see you leave TAM. I don't know you, I have never met you but, having read your thread from the very beginning, I feel you are a man with great integrity and many of us would like to hear how things are progressing.

Good point from an earlier poster about moving to Reconciliation. Is it worth going private again?

Good luck with everything.
 

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Since VR’s wife is reading his posts, I think he should have this thread closed. It won’t help his reconciliation for her to read further.
That said, I enjoy reading the updates and hope there’s one down the road that says he’s happy with his wife and family, and maybe even has a couple of more kids. As to the advice of a couple of others that he should get a prenup (not a bad idea) and keep her thinking he could leave at any time, I don’t think that’s a good idea and seriously doubt VR wants anything but an all in type of relationship that he had with her in the past. I think that’s possible and the only type of marriage worth having. I hope if he chooses to reconcile, he’s able to totally forgive her and totally put this behind him, and that she never has a desire to cheat again.. His wife showed by how she’s treated him in divorce, in her handling of his leaving, in her being totally cooperative with their child…….,that she does have sincere desire to right her wrongs as best she can. Hoping for a good outcome.
 

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@VintageRetro , wishing you and your wife success going forward. And peace within both of you regardless of the eventual outcome. At very least you can both live with the realization you gave it a try. IMO the route you took with resolutely divorcing and then contemplating reconciliation after some time is probably the best path for anyone.

One thing you never mentioned ( as far as I can recall ) was where your wife was/is spiritually as compared to yourself. My sense has been that she wasn't/isn't a believer. IMO this has bearing on the path you are embarking on.
 

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I spoke to my ex yesterday and I have decided to give her the chance to R.

I have spent the past few weeks talking, thinking, and praying about this and it is what I want to do. I have spent the last year living a life I never enjoyed. Doing things and acting in a manner contrary to who I am. It's taken a toll on me emotionally and spiritually. She has been constant in her desire to do whatever I needed to heal. Last week we had a couple's counseling session. The goal was to speak to a professional on what we were facing and how we would need to go about R. He's good. Really good. Was to the point and very detailed on what we were facing. He encouraged both of us to take three days and really think it through before deciding. He even helped us make a list of things to think about. For example..

Can we handle family and friends that are not happy with R?

How does she feel about my sexual partners over the past year?

Things of that nature.

On Friday I spoke to her and told her that I would commit to attempting R. No promises just my word that I would put forth my best .

We are not moving back in together. This will be more like a dating and getting to know each other all over again. There's been no intimacy at this point. Physical contact has been a hug and hand hold yesterday with more of the same at lunch today. We have another couple session Monday evening and we look to begin the heavy lifting then. Until that time it's been light conversation and spending time together alone. She's beyond excited but very understanding that we are just starting a long journey and it might not end the way she wants it. Our biggest hurdle I believe is going too fast. Falling back into old habits out of familiarity. That and my issues with physical touch between us. I'm also sure triggers will be a big one too.

I'm not sure what to do about TAM. I've gotten a lot of help here that I truly appreciate. But this is not a place I believe to be R friendly. I don't want an echo chamber but at th same time this can be a very judgemental place with some members so hurt by their pain that it's unsettling. I'm a man. I can take it. But do I want the mental and emotional drain that comes from that type of negative attacks. And TAM is not unique to this type of reactions. Other sites are the same.

Anyway, I felt like since all of you have been on this ride with me I wanted to let you know the latest. I hope you can respect this decision and the thought and prayers that went into making it. I'm taking a leap of faith and I understand that faith was abused in the past. I need to try this for my own sake.

For those of you that believe in prayer. I need them. We need them. For those of you that don't we need you also.

Thank you.


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Of all the stories I've read on TAM yours has always appeared to have the best chance of R from my view. You have always seemed to have the right attitude about everything and your ex appears to be one of the rare waywards that has done the right things for the right reason.

I really hope and pray for nothing but peace and happiness for you and your family.
 

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Yes! Her remorse is real and you are a good man with integrity, honor and decency thanks to your dad. I am hopeful and excited for your new beginnings. Many of us have been on this journey with you from the beginning and hope that you continue to update us with your thoughts and progress as the three of you move forward.

God speed, VR, Mrs. VR, and VR, Jr.
 

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I agree that a BS needs to protect themselves, but what you wrote here is not reconciliation. A couple who is living like that has not truly reconciled, is not committed to R, and has not moved forward.

I think any half-decent former WS will always worry that their BS can leave at any point, but they shouldn't be living in constant fear. That isn't helpful at all and makes R a lot harder, if not impossible.
A reconciliation is in the eye of the beholder and more importantly it is in the eye of the BS. It is a gift granted to the WS based on the BS's sense of generosity.

An affair does not give the BS license to abuse, mistreat or be mean to the WS.

But I think we would all agree that after an affair, the marriage/relationship is forever 'different.' If a reconciliation is to become a healthy, functional relationship, it must be built anew from the ground up. As VR himself has stated, starting with dating again.

That is fair. Dating is an interview and tryout and probationary period where people spend time together and do things together to get to know each other and see if they are right together in meeting each other's needs.

Do we open bank accounts and investments and retirement accounts with people we are going on saturday night dinner and movie nights with? We we take out mortgages and home loans and give medical powers of attorney to decide when they pull the plug on our life support with someone we are getting to know? Do we have children with someone and spend the rest of our lives intertwined with someone we are starting to see?

The answer to that is of course no, but here is the bigger catch - post affair, the BS KNOWS that the WS is prone to lying and cheating and deceiving and betraying. They have already had the rug pulled out from under their lives and have already been heartbroken and had their children's lives put into turmoil.

So I disagree that what I described above is not a reconciliation. allowing a WS back into your life at all is a reconciliation.

I am not advocating that the BS "punish" or mistreat or abuse the WS in anyway, we are still obligated to be good people ourselves.

But it's simply pragmatic and self preservation to have stipulations and conditions and perimeters going forward that will mitigate and lessen the damage caused should the WS again employ the behavior that we now know they are prone to do.

She is not owned or entitled to any access into VR's personal life, financial life or family life other than that stipulated by the divorce court.

He is giving her a great gift. She is a guest. And her length of stay and her welcome is determined by him. And it is in his best interests and well being to be very prudent and conservative in what keys to his life and well being that he grants her.

She has free will and she can choose whether those perameters and conditions are agreeable to her or not.

If it is agreeable to her and she lives within those parameters then all is well and they live happily ever after.

If she doesn't like those terms, then maybe she could call up the OM and see if he has a better deal for her.

VR gave her full access before and look how that turned out for him. It's now a new day, a new relationship and a new beginning. This time he would be wise to be a little more discriminating.
 

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A reconciliation is in the eye of the beholder and more importantly it is in the eye of the BS. It is a gift granted to the WS based on the BS's sense of generosity.

An affair does not give the BS license to abuse, mistreat or be mean to the WS.

But I think we would all agree that after an affair, the marriage/relationship is forever 'different.' If a reconciliation is to become a healthy, functional relationship, it must be built anew from the ground up. As VR himself has stated, starting with dating again.

That is fair. Dating is an interview and tryout and probationary period where people spend time together and do things together to get to know each other and see if they are right together in meeting each other's needs.

Do we open bank accounts and investments and retirement accounts with people we are going on saturday night dinner and movie nights with? We we take out mortgages and home loans and give medical powers of attorney to decide when they pull the plug on our life support with someone we are getting to know? Do we have children with someone and spend the rest of our lives intertwined with someone we are starting to see?

The answer to that is of course no, but here is the bigger catch - post affair, the BS KNOWS that the WS is prone to lying and cheating and deceiving and betraying. They have already had the rug pulled out from under their lives and have already been heartbroken and had their children's lives put into turmoil.

So I disagree that what I described above is not a reconciliation. allowing a WS back into your life at all is a reconciliation.

I am not advocating that the BS "punish" or mistreat or abuse the WS in anyway, we are still obligated to be good people ourselves.

But it's simply pragmatic and self preservation to have stipulations and conditions and perimeters going forward that will mitigate and lessen the damage caused should the WS again employ the behavior that we now know they are prone to do.

She is not owned or entitled to any access into VR's personal life, financial life or family life other than that stipulated by the divorce court.

He is giving her a great gift. She is a guest. And her length of stay and her welcome is determined by him. And it is in his best interests and well being to be very prudent and conservative in what keys to his life and well being that he grants her.

She has free will and she can choose whether those perameters and conditions are agreeable to her or not.

If it is agreeable to her and she lives within those parameters then all is well and they live happily ever after.

If she doesn't like those terms, then maybe she could call up the OM and see if he has a better deal for her.

VR gave her full access before and look how that turned out for him. It's now a new day, a new relationship and a new beginning. This time he would be wise to be a little more discriminating.
What you describe isn’t a healthy relationship.

whether it is punishment or not it’s simply a power play and the healthy strong emotional connection can not be strong in a relationship built on OR ELSE.
 

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What you describe isn’t a healthy relationship.

whether it is punishment or not it’s simply a power play and the healthy strong emotional connection can not be strong in a relationship built or OR ELSE.
How is it not healthy and how is it punishment????? Honest question, I don't see how it is either punishment nor unhealthy so please explain.

It is not punishment. It is generosity and giving an opportunity for redemption on his part.

I am absolutely NOT advocating him to be mean, exploitive or manipulative to her in any way.

I am advocating that he advocate and empower for his own well being and best interests. That is the very definition of healthy.

He can be loving. He can be supportive. He can mow her parents lawn when her father in law is laid up with back spasms.

But simple common sense would dictate that he realize she is prone to lying, deceiving, screwing other men etc etc and there for it is simply practical and good sense for him to not grant her full access to his financials and property and he be ready, willing and capable of wishing her well and sending her on her way if/when she fcks up again.

And if she spends the rest of her days being a good loving and loyal main squeeze, then great!!

So I fully disagree that it is not healthy and I assert that it is the MOST healthy thing he can do if he wants to make another attempt at a relationship with her.

If she doesn't like whatever terms and conditions he puts in place, she can simply say no and carry on with her own life. She has agency and self determinism as well.

Again, this is what dating is. This is the creation of a new relationship built upon today's parameters. It is not resumption of the marriage that they had the day before she wrapped her legs around another man's shoulders.
 

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VR--

You need to do what you feel is best for yourself. I would voice a couple of practical matters, though.

1.) For reconciliation to be possible, something must be changed. The cheating occurred for a reason, and that typically will include some severe personality issues on the part of the cheater. Unless your WW has taken steps to address this, there is a high risk of breakdown of the reconciliation. (In part from risk of repeat cheating, but also if there there has not been an epiphany on the WW's part about how this has hurt/affected you, then the WW will chafe at providing you the support you need to heal.) So, typically some sort of individual therapy on the part of the WW is necessary to address this.

2.) I also echo @oldshirt 's concerns about making yourself vulnerable in a legal/financial way. It may not necessarily be as harsh as @oldshirt has outlined, but at least a pre-nup with maybe a staged, very gradual re-integration of legal/financial status, dependent on how reconciliation progresses.


And I agree with you that TAM tends to be very skeptical about reconciliation. However, if you read @Affaircare , @EI , @mrsjohnadams , and even @bobert , you can read stories of reconciliation, and their advice on how do do it successfully.
 
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