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Well name calling will get you banned so maybe everyone should back off of that.

I'm not taking sides but he is somewhat correct.

I have a friend who had his wife cheat openly last year and I advised him and he followed my advice.

She didn't work and he made a solid six figures.

He got full custody and she is paying child support.

People who plan and act do a little better.
Pretty sure the Boneheads were just taking the piss. Mine were at least. Or there's the 10-year-old response of "He started it". :eek:

Those outcomes haven't been my experience. One buddy of mine couldn't get custody of his son, and his ex-wife was a junkie living in a drug house. Another's ex took his kids across the country, and there was nothing he could do about it. He hasn't seen them in a decade.
 

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Pretty sure the Boneheads were just taking the piss. Mine were at least. Or there's the 10-year-old response of "He started it". :eek:

Those outcomes haven't been my experience. One buddy of mine couldn't get custody of his son, and his ex-wife was a junkie living in a drug house. Another's ex took his kids across the country, and there was nothing he could do about it. He hasn't seen them in a decade.
Yup. I've seen too much of that crap which is why I got my friend to follow my advice and he was as clinical as a surgeon and ended her delusions.
 

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Whenever you see a situation that doesn't match your perception of life. You automatically go to because he is simply ****ed up. That's not even trying to understand.
That happens a lot here, regrettably.

I’d say TAM is too often a spectator sport, used by fans to make themselves feel superior to those actually in the ring. Except said fans aren’t even paying attention to the actual people in the ring.

I stayed because I chose to stay. I chose to stay, in part, because I tried very hard to honor my hierarchy of values, which included selfishly occupying space and time in my kids’ lives, leaving no stone unturned looking for solution, making sure this person I cared about had every nudge I could give her to fix her issues, some of which she might as well been born with and some I knew she had going in, making sure I did a good job trying to fix my issues because that’s the kind of guy I want to be for myself and whomever I spend my time with, and looking for a good time to exit. Then **** got real, life and death in the balance kind of real, and almost immediately after financial setbacks hit hard, and in the midst of a near enough perfect storm the ice began to thaw.

Was fear a factor, too? Of course. Some of those fears reflected reasonably realistic expectations of trade offs between things I valued and did not. Some fears were unrealistic. Does that mean I’m weak? I don’t think so. Who is keeping score, and why would they matter?

I am certain it took strength and integrity to my values. All of I that I could muster. And I’ve emerged stronger and wiser, and even more committed to living by honoring myself and my chosen values.

I think some here should ask themselves if they really know what they are talking about, from deep personal experience. If not, then maybe it’s time to ask oneself what they get out of judging strangers whose reported experience is different then theirs.
 

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LoL! I can't let this go.😁

I got married because I'm a prime man, alpha male, Chad, etc. and I can handle my ****, know how to select a grown ass woman and how to keep her and require her to work to keep me as well.

The first part is a bit tongue in cheek but I'm going to start having fun with you guys that talk like this and believe you can't have a say in your life regarding marriage.😉
I don’t see any humor here. I’d like to think you really care to help people see they have power to make choices in their lives, and improve their situation for themselves.

But, that first part is insulting and arrogantly assumes any cards dealt you could have played better because you da man, and such a good one.

I don’t understand why someone confident and alpha would have to remind others of his superiority. So maybe it just hadn’t occurred to you some people might take those words as kicking a fellow while he is down.
 

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I don’t see any humor here. I’d like to think you really care to help people see they have power to make choices in their lives, and improve their situation for themselves.

But, that first part is insulting and arrogantly assumes any cards dealt you could have played better because you da man, and such a good one.

I don’t understand why someone confident and alpha would have to remind others of his superiority. So maybe it just hadn’t occurred to you some people might take those words as kicking a fellow while he is down.
Take some time and get to know me. Those labels are all from outside and definitely used tongue in cheek by me.

I'm sympathetic and empathetic to those in pain or trying to overcome obstacles. I've also observed many that make silly, oversimplified arguments that paint me in a certain light (that has a hint of truth but misses most of it) and women with a broad and highly inaccurate brush.

My beginning comments are a silly response to a silly attitude.

I've literally seen about the worst that can happen when women have abused men and I am still convinced that a lot of women are good and solid or near being solid if men could simply be men.
 

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Take some time and get to know me. Those labels are all from outside and definitely used tongue in cheek by me.

I'm sympathetic and empathetic to those in pain or trying to overcome obstacles. I've also observed many that make silly, oversimplified arguments that paint me in a certain light (that has a hint of truth but misses most of it) and women with a broad and highly inaccurate brush.

My beginning comments are a silly response to a silly attitude.

I've literally seen about the worst that can happen when women have abused men and I am still convinced that a lot of women are good and solid or near being solid if men could simply be men.
I’ve been here a very long time, and by now have read hundreds, probably thousands, of your posts. FWIW, the humor there was lost on me, and I wouldn’t have caught that you were at least at least partially trying to be funny if you hadn’t mentioned “tongue in cheek”. Your value might not have been delivered to the ones that might have needed it. Take what you want from that.


Not directed at you —

I think I figured out part of what troubles me about this thread. IIRC, The question was about why men would ever stay in a sexless marriage for month or years. Some here are answering based on years of self reflection having lived that experience. In response, those who haven’t walked a tenth of a mile in those shoes and proudly claim they never would be so weak to attempt to do so, in response say effectively “that’s not a good reason” or “no that couldn’t be it”…. “That’d be insane.” For the record, I haven’t heard many claiming the reasons were good; maybe some claiming they seemed good at the time or for a time, or seemed like they had potential to work out.

Hence my point about this being for the spectators, who don’t seem to care to listen.

The other concern is there is a lot of talk here about MGTOW. What that has to do with reasons one stayed in a marriage I have no idea.

I have always been convinced there are good women out there, and that my wife is very good in many ways. Where our relationship has fallen short, by her or my actions, my belief has been the potential for redemption has always been there. In the wrong hands, such optimism can lead one to tolerate too much, some beyond the pale. It takes a sophisticated awareness to navigate that in a more optimal way, and that awareness takes time to acquire. I respect those giving it their best shot.
 

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Yes but that doesn’t leave much room for victim-minded complaining or self-righteous martyrdom.
If you mean me, I’d appreciate it if you could clarify how so.

I like to think by this point I have recognized I have and have always had agency, I’ve made my choices, they worked out or didn’t. And I didn’t die. Things have happened to improve, some because of actions I took, some because others and circumstances changed. And I will continue choose based on my accumulated experience.
 

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IMO, no one has to justify why they decide to stay....That's their own personal journey...And as they say, "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" before ripping or mocking them for it...

I would, however, wonder why then would they go to the extent to complain about it and seek some kind of assistance or understanding...The options are pretty clear, albeit none of them are necessarily easy...

Staying for the sake of the kids is IME, most of the reasons why a lot of guys do it...No good dad will want to see his kids suffer, because he isn't having sex with their mother....But then most of those guys have figured out a way to get by until that time inevitably comes...What they decide to do is on them...and good for them, I say....
 

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That happens a lot here, regrettably.

I’d say TAM is too often a spectator sport, used by fans to make themselves feel superior to those actually in the ring. Except said fans aren’t even paying attention to the actual people in the ring.
I know that I have no further interest in providing more punching bag options for wayward spouse rhetoric because of the sport that is practiced in the infidelity forum, and I'm guessing that I'm not alone.
 

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I’ve been here a very long time, and by now have read hundreds, probably thousands, of your posts. FWIW, the humor there was lost on me, and I wouldn’t have caught that you were at least at least partially trying to be funny if you hadn’t mentioned “tongue in cheek”. Your value might not have been delivered to the ones that might have needed it. Take what you want from that.


Not directed at you —

I think I figured out part of what troubles me about this thread. IIRC, The question was about why men would ever stay in a sexless marriage for month or years. Some here are answering based on years of self reflection having lived that experience. In response, those who haven’t walked a tenth of a mile in those shoes and proudly claim they never would be so weak to attempt to do so, in response say effectively “that’s not a good reason” or “no that couldn’t be it”…. “That’d be insane.” For the record, I haven’t heard many claiming the reasons were good; maybe some claiming they seemed good at the time or for a time, or seemed like they had potential to work out.

Hence my point about this being for the spectators, who don’t seem to care to listen.

The other concern is there is a lot of talk here about MGTOW. What that has to do with reasons one stayed in a marriage I have no idea.

I have always been convinced there are good women out there, and that my wife is very good in many ways. Where our relationship has fallen short, by her or my actions, my belief has been the potential for redemption has always been there. In the wrong hands, such optimism can lead one to tolerate too much, some beyond the pale. It takes a sophisticated awareness to navigate that in a more optimal way, and that awareness takes time to acquire. I respect those giving it their best shot.
You have been around a while and I think you do know what I'm about.

I'm having fun with a ridiculously simplified attitude/outlook by making ridiculously simplified remarks.

The remarks I was responding to were definitely not delivered by you.

Men in these situations that really want input, help and ideas will get them from me fo whatever it's worth to them.

Men who dismiss everything, paint everyone with oversimplified colors and/or don't want input but just want to complain without doing anything about it...... Well maybe I'm just giving them a little well earned sarcasm.
 

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Also @PieceOfSky , what's your take on the post I was responding to?

Any criticism or correction come to mind?

I found it to be somewhat belligerent in tone and completely unhelpful.

I understand he was only speaking from his very limited and individual experience.

He could start to understand that his experience is not even close to all encompassing.

He lashed out with a narrow view and I responded (tongue in cheek) with another.
 

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I’ve been here a very long time, and by now have read hundreds, probably thousands, of your posts. FWIW, the humor there was lost on me, and I wouldn’t have caught that you were at least at least partially trying to be funny if you hadn’t mentioned “tongue in cheek”. Your value might not have been delivered to the ones that might have needed it. Take what you want from that.


Not directed at you —

I think I figured out part of what troubles me about this thread. IIRC, The question was about why men would ever stay in a sexless marriage for month or years. Some here are answering based on years of self reflection having lived that experience. In response, those who haven’t walked a tenth of a mile in those shoes and proudly claim they never would be so weak to attempt to do so, in response say effectively “that’s not a good reason” or “no that couldn’t be it”…. “That’d be insane.” For the record, I haven’t heard many claiming the reasons were good; maybe some claiming they seemed good at the time or for a time, or seemed like they had potential to work out.

Hence my point about this being for the spectators, who don’t seem to care to listen.

The other concern is there is a lot of talk here about MGTOW. What that has to do with reasons one stayed in a marriage I have no idea.

I have always been convinced there are good women out there, and that my wife is very good in many ways. Where our relationship has fallen short, by her or my actions, my belief has been the potential for redemption has always been there. In the wrong hands, such optimism can lead one to tolerate too much, some beyond the pale. It takes a sophisticated awareness to navigate that in a more optimal way, and that awareness takes time to acquire. I respect those giving it their best shot.
Very well said - from a fellow long term sufferer, whose plug has been pulled and put out of his misery... :)
 

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That's obvious sh!t. A man with his affairs in order as I stated will be first to employ lawyers to get custody of kids and go scorched earth to make sure kids keep my last name, and I'll still be ever so present in their lives.

Wife goes. Kids stay with me. Shark lawyers will earn their dollars. The W would be kicked out sans kids.
Make some argument that doesn't contain stating obvious and you may get more traction in trying to detract or just naysay to throw out a word jumble. Bonehead.
even with lawyers you still end on loosing side. she can mess them in those weekends, summers.
time will come to get it right. kids respect me because i did hang around until they were done, have complete understanding what their mother was/is. i have told her from start what will happen, she did not take it seriously enough. i had beautiful years after ( until my second passed away ), path i took was worth it.
 

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... and women could simply stop trying to be men. ;)
True. But which one is within your span of control?

I can’t control how women operate, but I can learn to understand it, and control how I operate to affect the relationship and life outcomes I want.
And since women tend to be receptive / reactive, strong masculine energy in men will usually influence / elicit greater femininity from women.

The alternative would be for men to not take ownership of what we can control, wallow in poor outcomes and just complain about how women should be - but that’s best left to the MGTOW types :)
 

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True. But which one is within your span of control?

I can’t control how women operate, but I can learn to understand it, and control how I operate to affect the relationship and life outcomes I want.
And since women tend to be receptive / reactive, strong masculine energy in men will usually influence / elicit greater femininity from women.

The alternative would be for men to not take ownership of what we can control, wallow in poor outcomes and just complain about how women should be - but that’s best left to the MGTOW types :)
Or. You walk away from such women as not worth the effort. Look, I get what you're saying, but who wants to come home and have to out-masculine his wife constantly. I'm not interested in training the feminine into a woman. I'd rather go find another one that looks just like her but already knows how to be a woman. Wish I'd known that when I was younger. ;)
 
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