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I have an employee like that, makes me nuts. He is a retired Chief Petty Officer and now acts like a new boot and wife is the Admiral. He is so stressed he takes meds for it.

Said nothing about attractive/hot women.
I wonder about these situations too - what makes them stay?

My cousin’s second wife is not as good looking as the first, and she does as she pleases, and controls absolutely everything. He’s not allowed any social life anymore. Meanwhile she chats online all day to guys while he works, she does nothing around the house and I just don’t get it.

First wife was drama-free, decent but moody, but in fairness she also got very upset about how he was out with the boys too much and he left her - now he’s got this one and the whole family is puzzled
 

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Certainly some men choose high drama, but if you're relying on forums like these to tell you the percentage that is obviously problematic. I for one have never started a thread titled "Wife Behaving Sensibly".
 

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Discussion Starter #103 (Edited)
In my experience it was the low drama women who hurt me the most while dating. All I felt were pretty and yet none would be what I would call a "10."

From publicly humiliated me in front of others, to literally kneeing me in the groin. I think the "low drama" women you are speaking of are mostly "nice girls" who really don't understand men and therefore don't know how to react to things that men do or want. In each of the cases, they had no idea of what they were doing and just acted totally inappropriately. Yes, afterwards they apologized profusely and explained they didn't understand the implications or destructiveness of what they did to a relationship.

At a certain point, I think many guys would prefer to date a woman who knows how to treat a man rather that putting up with all the "learning related problems" associated with "nice, low drama, inexperienced women."

In short the topic being discussed is more about men being attracted to women (of all degrees of pretty) who are experienced enough (from past relationships) to not be emotional mine fields. They are high drama only to the point that they are trying to screen out the non-marriage material from their suitors.

I can say that while I ultimately married a "nice girl" it has not been without drama.
You described EXACTLY what i would call a high drama woman. But then said theyre low drama??? What?

I didnt imply low drama are virgins and inexperienced (*). I dont know whats wrong with all those people saying pretty and high drama are THE SAME? Thats not my experience nor what happens around me. I really cant relate. Many real pretty women around here are "nice girls" and fine to deal with, but i still see so many men going backwards to treat a high drama so good (many of them are kinda ugly), but when theyre with a "nice girl" they dont do the effort. Thats what i meant, that what i wrote.

Id like to know why, but i'll stay with the answer of someone up there that they like the challenge, add that they like the drama too and miss it when theyre in a quiet peaceful life.

High drama: cause problems where there are none, conflict, cheat and on and on. It depends on the type of drama. (I dont mean theyre pretty or anything)

Low drama: try to talk, solve, help and vice-versa.
 

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Discussion Starter #104
Qd
Respectfully, any woman who would knee you in the groin on purpose or humiliate you in public (unless provoked b assault, etc) is not a low drama or nice person. I don't buy it for a moment that someone isn't aware that is an acceptable way to treat another person.
True. Those are what i would call high drama (but im getting the feeling some people equate "high drama=hot+experienced" and "nice girls" as ugly near-virgins or something, that are neither true -in my experience- nor what i meant).
 

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Discussion Starter #105
Certainly some men choose high drama, but if you're relying on forums like these to tell you the percentage that is obviously problematic. I for one have never started a thread titled "Wife Behaving Sensibly".
Yeah, i know im not getting anywhere.

I was only venting bc im becoming jaded hahaha

And the post just went on and on and on (i think maybe lots of people need some vent too and some have great insights too).

Sorry.
 

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I've read it so many times among the manosphere like 10 years ago, but for me is like theyre talking about teenagers, bc i almost NEVER seen a woman "into jerks" among people i know and family. I mean, i know women who made mistakes and dated a guy who seemed nice. But, you know, the guy seemed to be a nice person.
the jerk thing requires some nuance and explanation. Women are attracted to men other women are attracted to (preselection, which is part of mimetic desire). Even if that guy is lacking in a number of areas, including character, women like this idea of getting with a "wanted man"

Women are also excited by guys who have sexual options and not necessarily faithful or exclusive. Men who are devoted to their girlfriends and limit their options are often viewed as emotionally immature, weak, or undesirable, by women.

And this is a big problem. Obviously not all women have those attitudes, but it is pervasive. The philandering bad boy with status is preferable to the good, honest guy who would be an excellent husband and father. Women tell us this almost every day. We only have to look at our cutlure.

so that explains why jerks do well
 

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Discussion Starter #107
I wonder about these situations too - what makes them stay?

My cousin’s second wife is not as good looking as the first, and she does as she pleases, and controls absolutely everything. He’s not allowed any social life anymore. Meanwhile she chats online all day to guys while he works, she does nothing around the house and I just don’t get it.

First wife was drama-free, decent but moody, but in fairness she also got very upset about how he was out with the boys too much and he left her - now he’s got this one and the whole family is puzzled
Thats exactly what i had in mind when i asked.

High drama and the guy is all quiet and kind, while with a low drama he keeps pushing her boundaries, being unreasonable and when she complains bc he is always out with the boys or some sh!t she is seen as a mean dragon.

In my case the issue is this and more focused into the sexual aspect of the relationship (i mentioned up there, i believe).

But this example is EXACTLY the same "form".

All effort and puppy with the high drama, low effort with the nice girl (even if the nice girl is prettier, doesnt matter).

Whatever.

Thank you all for all your input, you kind people.
 

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The title says almost it all, already.

Why so many men seem to put lots of effort into high drama women while so low effort into "nice girls"?


And i dont mean like the high drama is prettier or anything at all.

I get this feeling, but i dont even know if its true. Is it true (for most men)???

Idk, its like if youre nice and trustworthy your feelings and needs are way more overlooked no matter how much you talk about it or try, youre way less "helped" then a b!t¢h who doesnt give a [email protected]

Im sorry if i sound all over the place hahah
I see a difference. What I've noticed though are that women are no longer encouraged to be the nice girl. Rather, they are encouraged to be this boundary-laying slayer that puts her wants and needs first. She doesn't let herself get walked on.
 

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I see a difference. What I've noticed though are that women are no longer encouraged to be the nice girl. Rather, they are encouraged to be this boundary-laying slayer that puts her wants and needs first. She doesn't let herself get walked on.
Honestly, that seems to be a better way to be, judging from the results of being "too nice" as a woman. Those women get treated way better. Heck, someone even wrote a book "Why men love *****es"
 

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Honestly, that seems to be a better way to be, judging from the results of being "too nice" as a woman. Those women get treated way better. Heck, someone even wrote a book "Why men love *****es"
Yes and no. It definitely makes more sense to be that way, so you don't get hurt and I guess you achieve that end result, whatever it may be. But, in truth, it's all a show. It's not really who we are. It's all part of the dating game. And yes I have that book...lol.
 

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Honestly, that seems to be a better way to be, judging from the results of being "too nice" as a woman. Those women get treated way better. Heck, someone even wrote a book "Why men love *****es"
It’s hard to know how to be isn’t it? Because we hear stories here too of men eventually leaving these women or leading really miserable lives?

What to do about the controlling wife, the wife spends all my money, the wife had distanced me from my family, the wife is nasty, I work and also do the housework and my wife does nothing at home and I don’t go anywhere etc?

works for both sexes too I suppose.
 

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I see a difference. What I've noticed though are that women are no longer encouraged to be the nice girl. Rather, they are encouraged to be this boundary-laying slayer that puts her wants and needs first. She doesn't let herself get walked on.
Eh,....I dunno....

At the end of the day, the top tier women are always the one's that are good looking/fit, yet aren't walking around with a chip on their shoulder, knocking every guys d!ck in for sport, or hauling around more baggage than you would see at Kennedy Airport during Thanksgiving...

It's not about nice vs mean,,, There are tons of women like the one's you are describing out on social media...They spend practically all their waking hours on Twitter or the NPR FB feed spewing all kinds of shyt....You go and check out their profile and you never find any guys,....Just some dogs and cats, angry memes, some landscapes, and a few selfies..

IMO, this is why I believe a woman's stock(generally speaking) gets a bump from being a mom...They understand what it means to give of oneself and not be "all about them"...That's not to say that there aren't awesome childless women out there and horrible moms, all I am saying is that generally speaking these women have an edge and understand how it works..
 

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IMO, this is why I believe a woman's stock(generally speaking) gets a bump from being a mom...They understand what it means to give of oneself and not be "all about them"
That's rare then...because in today's dating game, if you give yourself and are too accommodating and helpful, you're out, onto the next woman. I was that woman once, believe me. I had to adapt with the times, and it sucks, but that's how it was. With a mom giving herself to her children, it's an entirely different thing.
 

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It might be that lot of guys are on the ADHD spectrum and, therefore, needs the craziness to feel alive.

When I was dating my husband, we fell into a routine. i would go over to his place Friday evening and we would be together, for a while until Sunday afternoon; then later until Monday morning.

I started to get the feeling that I was his "wife" while his just a friend friend was his side piece. Sometimes I would cook on the weekends. Other times we would go out to eat. But in the early days, he would try to find a way to unbundle the costs of going out. "Let's have a drink here. oh can you get that? We'll have dinner over there" and so on. What I read in the messaging between my future husband and his friend, was that he more keen to cover the whole evening. This could be because there is so much written about how LT couples should split the cost of dating. I have yet to see an article on how to handle the bill and other costs when you're out with your best girl bud.

I remember a friend of mine tried to make light of my situation. "Oh, well, I'm sure because you and he regularly go out that he spends more money on you." I had to let her know but he gets so much from me. I don't go out with other men or even have a boyfriend like his "friend". We coordinated our free time together and when I had to go somewhere without him, I had to reassure that this did not include other men. For that, my time is not valued like any BOGO deal. That is, the more time you spend with someone, the less each minute is valued. Are you kidding me? If seeing someone less often means they value your time, then let's see each less often. Let me go look for a boyfriend like his "friend" had.

Fortunately, when I took on this topic with my future husband, at least he didn't say anything crazy like "I have to pay for her, I don't see her as often." He stopped contacting her. But she gave it one more try. She asked her boyfriend to invite him to happy hour for her birthday. He didn't go as we were out for the day and the boyfriend, who probably didn't like this arrangement either invited him around 1pm on the day of. then a strange thing happened, she texted him at 11pm, closing time for pubs in the UK with the words "why didn't you come?" I knew what that meant ........ "where are you? We need someone to close the tab" as my future husband had reliably done before.

I made his choices very clear and it's been smooth running ever since.

One poster here had posited the idea that many LT relationships satisfy a person's needs 80 to 90% of the time. What does one do to satisfy that missing 10 to 20% of contentment? A mature person might join an organization or two in which one can safely interact with other people with similar interests. And those not so mature will fall for inappropriate relationships with the opposite sex.

If you think your guy does more for some drama queen than he does for you, then give him a choice.
 

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So a woman get nothing for being a "nice girl".

Like, you put the effort into pleasing him, into not being an ass, into trying to make his life better and easier, but... meh!

Thats the feeling im getting.
I'm being lighthearted in sharing this response.

In our early days of dating, Batman and his friends had been partying, and he phoned me with obvious male chuckles in the background, asking in a jovial way if I would go over to cook for them / bring food. My answer was an agitated no. He then switched gears '...but I want to see you...'

'... get a photograph' was my response.

A short time later, he was at my door with pizza for us to share, 'A photograph wasn't cutting it, I wanted to see you.'
 
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After doing the whole dutiful wife thing, I'm extremely leery of remarrying or living with a man again just to get a little sausage.:ROFLMAO:
I love the way you express yourself 😁

Batman and I had a little tiff last year. Both a bit stressed at the time, and he'd run out of clean underwear. Laundry is my department. He's more than capable, though. So he wasn't happy there was no clean underwear in his dresser drawer. It's not a regular occurrence. I suggested he could have let me know he was getting down to his last pair. I might have also suggested he knows how to do it. Needless to say, we had a minor spat. Anyway, I did get onto the laundry that morning (as, like I said, that's my domain). And I ordered a supply of additional underwear for him. Since then, I've ensured to be on top of the laundry. Except... this past week I've been a bit under the weather and admittedly the laundry started piling up. I checked his drawer this time and gave myself a mental pat on the back for ordering the extras as he had plenty at the ready. Then got a handle on the laundry again. #marriedlife :p
 

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Eh,....I dunno....

At the end of the day, the top tier women are always the one's that are good looking/fit, yet aren't walking around with a chip on their shoulder, knocking every guys d!ck in for sport, or hauling around more baggage than you would see at Kennedy Airport during Thanksgiving...

It's not about nice vs mean,,, There are tons of women like the one's you are describing out on social media...They spend practically all their waking hours on Twitter or the NPR FB feed spewing all kinds of shyt....You go and check out their profile and you never find any guys,....Just some dogs and cats, angry memes, some landscapes, and a few selfies..

IMO, this is why I believe a woman's stock(generally speaking) gets a bump from being a mom...They understand what it means to give of oneself and not be "all about them"...That's not to say that there aren't awesome childless women out there and horrible moms, all I am saying is that generally speaking these women have an edge and understand how it works..
If you check out my social media, there's no hint of a man, a few selfies, cause my pics were old and either political or funny memes. I wiped my ex clean off everything like he didn't exist the day I decided to divorce him. By social media standards, I'm a lonely cat lady :ROFLMAO:

And no, I haven't changed my status to in a relationship, my personal life is not everyone's business.
 

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I love the way you express yourself 😁

Batman and I had a little tiff last year. Both a bit stressed at the time, and he'd run out of clean underwear. Laundry is my department. He's more than capable, though. So he wasn't happy there was no clean underwear in his dresser drawer. It's not a regular occurrence. I suggested he could have let me know he was getting down to his last pair. I might have also suggested he knows how to do it. Needless to say, we had a minor spat. Anyway, I did get onto the laundry that morning (as, like I said, that's my domain). And I ordered a supply of additional underwear for him. Since then, I've ensured to be on top of the laundry. Except... this past week I've been a bit under the weather and admittedly the laundry started piling up. I checked his drawer this time and gave myself a mental pat on the back for ordering the extras as he had plenty at the ready. Then got a handle on the laundry again. #marriedlife :p
Thank ya!:D

I've been feeling more my old self the more time passes. My big mouth used to get in SO much trouble though :rolleyes:
 

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It was meaningful to my husband when we were dating for me to agree on FB that we were in a relationship. But it was still 6 months later that i had to make case for dumping her.
 

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Great story @heartsbeating this exact thing plays out at my house except my wife has stocked so much underwear and socks the only thing I can run out of is workout shorts (despite her stocking those as well).

I don’t like telling her I am running low because it seems like I am telling her she’s doing a crappy job keeping up with my laundry needs. Every once in a while I will do a load of my stuff or put away what is in the dryer. She gets mad if I do any loads for the same reason although she doesn’t care if I unload the dryer even though my folding is sub-par.

So I have some old school “1974 NBA Eastern Conference finals” looking shorts I can wear when I run out. That is her signal.
 
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