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Discussion Starter #81

Meh. I don't even worry about her anymore. Live and learn. Plus, I'm much happier with my GF now.

She did the same exact thing to the next guy she was with too. I heard about that through the grapevine. Probably part of the reason she moves around every few years, she develops a reputation.
Again already? She is fast!! o_O
 

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One thing you gotta watch(and guys do this as well, to a lesser degree perhaps) is women like to trash other women that are objectively better looking than they are....You know, they'll call them tramps and easy lays, or commonly call them crazy...Sometimes women who just don't put up with any garbage get labeled with mental health issues...Guys are supposed to be like this, but many still believe if a woman isn't passive or demure, then there must be something wrong with her...I have not found this correlation at all..
 

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Again already? She is fast!! o_O
This was over 2 years ago now. Time flies, actually. But yeah, this is a small town area here and people hear everything. A lot of us all know each other from high school/college. Her next boo found out she was cheating on him also. I was at least wise enough not to part with as many greenbacks as he did though. I think she took him for thousands overall, in addition to the cheating. She moved away from the area now though.
 

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.....And i dont mean like the high drama is prettier or anything at all.

I get this feeling, but i dont even know if its true. Is it true (for most men)???

Idk, its like if youre nice and trustworthy your feelings and needs are way more overlooked no matter how much you talk about it or try, youre way less "helped" then a b!t¢h who doesnt give a [email protected]
In my experience it was the low drama women who hurt me the most while dating. All I felt were pretty and yet none would be what I would call a "10."

From publicly humiliated me in front of others, to literally kneeing me in the groin. I think the "low drama" women you are speaking of are mostly "nice girls" who really don't understand men and therefore don't know how to react to things that men do or want. In each of the cases, they had no idea of what they were doing and just acted totally inappropriately. Yes, afterwards they apologized profusely and explained they didn't understand the implications or destructiveness of what they did to a relationship.

At a certain point, I think many guys would prefer to date a woman who knows how to treat a man rather that putting up with all the "learning related problems" associated with "nice, low drama, inexperienced women."

In short the topic being discussed is more about men being attracted to women (of all degrees of pretty) who are experienced enough (from past relationships) to not be emotional mine fields. They are high drama only to the point that they are trying to screen out the non-marriage material from their suitors.

I can say that while I ultimately married a "nice girl" it has not been without drama.
 

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Yeah, they knew each other from here but they just got in touch with each other. Very cute and romantic.

A TAM dating section would probably be a meltdown like Chernobyl.😋
That is TV. The geeky guys know the cheerleaders are not going to give them the time of day. They admire from afar but know it would never happen.
I watched it happen IRL, admittedly in a different culture, not the US.
If it would make you feel any better, there are likely guys right here on this site that wouldn't shut you down. Just Kiddin widju Moon. I'm thinking you might enjoy a laugh. Now to get serious. If he shuts you down when you ask for kisses or you have tell him you need foreplay, you need to ask yourself if he's the problem, if your the problem, or if both of you are the problem. Kisses and foreplay, like any other facet of sex, is highly diminished if you have to ask for it.
Sometimes this never changes. I ended up in a sexless marriage, and not from lack of asking. Sometimes you just need to know when a lost cause is a lost cause and walk away.
If you are trying to justify men staying with BSC by saying all attractive/hot women are BSC so if you want to be with any kind of attractive women it's just something you just have to put up with, I cry extreme ****.

Either that or, I'll just have to label all of those men extremely stupid/must be something mentally and emotionally wrong with them if they are deliberately making that choice to pick someone crazy.

Lastly, I will add (and this won't be popular with some men) I do think poorly of the character of men who stay long term with BSC just because she's super physically attractive.
Same. I refuse to associate with men who tolerated that crap, if they knew from the getgo. In my experience, they will take **** from women who shovel it, and then shovel it onto more easy-going women.
 

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Yeah, they knew each other from here but they just got in touch with each other. Very cute and romantic.

A TAM dating section would probably be a meltdown like Chernobyl.😋
Why'd you say that? I'm curious .
BSC..... I've seen that trait in folks across the looks spectrum.

Some of the nicest, sweetest and mentally stable women I have known were objectively very attractive.

People who find themselves in abusive relationships can get really stuck as well.

That is no excuse for initially pursuing an obvious Biatch or A hole but sometimes people are in the relationship a little too deep and the drama queen/king/manipulator has hooks in them.

My oldest son was a recovering addict and doing really well. He met a very solid and attractive woman and they seemed to be heading for something serious when his head got turned by a manipulative abuser that used her position, she worked with him and was over him, to get him to start dating her. He broke off the relationship with the solid lady and took up with his co-worker.

They were found out and both lost their jobs.

Mrs. Conan and I didn't really care for her because of the work situation but we wanted to be supportive parents and not overbearing about his choices so we were nice to her and treated her like part of the family.

By the time we found out she was BSC, our son was in her control.

I advised him not to marry her and she had such control by that time that she cut him off from us and he obeyed her. We couldn't believe the weakness he was exhibiting but she was, and had, been playing on weaknesses she had become privy to as a result of abusing her position at their job.

So he became mostly estranged from us for a few years while her drama turned to all out abuse.

He would work 14 hours a day, come home and clean the house, do the dishes then cook dinner and then clean the dishes again while she sat on the couch all day, smoking marijuana and messing around on social media.

She would constantly degrade and threaten him with cheating on him.

We were not clueless after a while and told him to leave several times but he was too far gone.

They are finally getting a divorce and my youngest son had to step in to help him break her hold on him.

The thing is, his stbx was BSC and not hot at all.

I couldn't understand the attraction but she was a very good abuser and manipulator.

My oldest was not in a good place to avoid her or fend her off and she took advantage.

I imagine that something similar happens with women sometimes.

Logically, if he would have put a fraction of the effort he exerted with the "beast" on the nice lady, they would have blossomed and grown.

There is a lot of evil in the world and a lot of folks taken advantage of.

I'm not excusing the bad decisions but I'm seeing how it is happening.
I'm sorry your son dealt with that. Sounds like he traded one addiction for another, I hope he's doing much better now.
 

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First off some people just like the drama. Maybe the grew up in it an it was normalized. Maybe it's perversely exciting or at least interesting.

That being said here are my theories around this, some of will be conversational (and as usual I have a lot to say). Might as well get the first one out the way. Most men are motivated by beauty. But I think beauty in itself can be a catalyst for drama. I know from watching my Mom who was very beautiful (believe me I heard it from all my friends / home coming queen all that), like all the men were hitting on her all the time. Married or not. This has been most of my Mothers life since high school and still is today in her 70s. I think an immature person can mistake that and make decisions that lead to life long drama. But the beauty doesn't necessarily go away and the attention and drama follows.

My Dad who was her equal in terms of attractiveness (not to mention career success) was completely unfazed by this because it was clear he always had options. As illustrated the best because he cheated. Not to mention all the women he dated afterwords, non of which were unattractive. I say that to contrast with my stepfather who on the other hand was always out of he league and very insecure about it, not in jealously controlling way but just in the way he treated her. He wasn't a bad looking guy but he wasn't nearly as successful as my Dad. All of this created drama in our lives because I think part of the problems in the marriage was his deep resentment.

Then there is the fact that a lot of men fall under the white knight syndrome. To me a lot of that can be caused by insecurity, as in - if I continue to save this person then they must love me, and that is how I will earn worthiness of love. It's like a passive aggressive way of trying to ensure your relationship. But it should also be said that it's in our nature to want to provide and this is a way to do it, but it's a shame that some guys just don't get that there is a time to throw in the towel. In my mind this is the exact same thing as the women who always date the bad boys. It's all born out of insecurity, or a feeling of unworthiness, of hedging ones bets.

I also believe some of this is sexist, seems to me lots of men think of women as delicate flowers or little children, or even the idea that all women are foreign or crazy and you can understand them anyway so you might as well just put up with poor behavior. The thinking being, this is to be expected and just a consequence of being with women in general. If you are a Mother and you are not calling this ******** out for what it is YOU are doing your son a long term disservice and will effect his success in life. Even if your husband is "meat head" enough to reinforce this. Raise your son's to be emotionally inquisitive and intelligent! Yes we are different but even if the world was silly enough to be as different as these guys think, that doesn't make us any less accountable.

Frankly lots of men just want to get laid, and though it is controversial to say women who are less organized in their thinking or lives may be more open to having sex without thinking through the long term consequences of that. Honestly a lack of long term thinking is exactly what you are looking for if you want to use someone to have fun. Don't discount that lots of men know this. There is a reason why there is this troupe that crazy women are great in bed. Yes that is a thing, (don't shoot the messenger). Well some of the drama around these women is that they are not very structured or they don't adhere to what society thinks are norms, well that can translate to physical relationships. I am sure that will get me a lot of flack for saying it.

Also maybe some women who have the drama may be insecure or dare I say desperate enough to compromise when it comes to sex. This can be a power thing as well. Don't discount all of this.

This is my cynical take more to follow.
 

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In my experience it was the low drama women who hurt me the most while dating. All I felt were pretty and yet none would be what I would call a "10."

From publicly humiliated me in front of others, to literally kneeing me in the groin. I think the "low drama" women you are speaking of are mostly "nice girls" who really don't understand men and therefore don't know how to react to things that men do or want. In each of the cases, they had no idea of what they were doing and just acted totally inappropriately. Yes, afterwards they apologized profusely and explained they didn't understand the implications or destructiveness of what they did to a relationship.

At a certain point, I think many guys would prefer to date a woman who knows how to treat a man rather that putting up with all the "learning related problems" associated with "nice, low drama, inexperienced women."

In short the topic being discussed is more about men being attracted to women (of all degrees of pretty) who are experienced enough (from past relationships) to not be emotional mine fields. They are high drama only to the point that they are trying to screen out the non-marriage material from their suitors.

I can say that while I ultimately married a "nice girl" it has not been without drama.
Respectfully, any woman who would knee you in the groin on purpose or humiliate you in public (unless provoked b assault, etc) is not a low drama or nice person. I don't buy it for a moment that someone isn't aware that is an acceptable way to treat another person.
 

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So I gave you the cynical take but I don't want to leave it there (big surprise).

I think some people are very nice people but just unlucky or are paying for poor decision making when they were young and immature. So just because a women has drama around her doesn't mean she isn't a great catch. I mentioned my Mother in my other post, but in her defense her father who wasn't in her life much died when she was 5. She never really had a father or a father figure so her picker never really developed. A lot of her life was drama but most of that was born out of the men she picked. My Father who cheated and my Step-father who was a poor choice. Once I finally convinced her to dump him, she vowed off men forever and for the last 20 years has had a very stable thriving life.

The irony is if my Father wasn't a cheater they may have had a good marriage in the sense that my father was the perfect type of man for her. Very stable, reserved, well respected. Though I was young I still remember there was was a calmness in her with my Dad that there never was afterwords even now that she is very successful. Besides that he always had her deep respect, and until he cheated he deserved it. Besides his cheating (which agreed this is a very big failing) there is no one in my life who I have ever met who was smarter or more on the ball then my Dad. My Dad is the most impressive guy I know, and I am not just saying that because he is my Dad, much of that is the life he has lived. I could tell stories of the people he met and the things he did before he retired but I won't here to protect my anonymity. Point is he was really good at being stable as far as ordinary life, and she respected him enough to follow his lead. Some of the more crazy people that ended up being a part of my young life (mostly Church related), would have never even tried to be around if my Dad was there, and he would have told my Mom "um nope", and she would have respected him enough to listen. My Step-father on the other had attracted them.

Another thing that brought drama was are lack of money when I was young. Being financially unstable just leads to drama. My parents divorce really contributed to that. My Dad being divorced twice and with a group of kids, essentially paying off two mortgages at the time didn't have a lot of money even though he made a very good salary. Then my Step-father couldn't keep a job. So we didn't have a lot of money. Well when you heat brakes down and you can't afford money to fix it, you ask for help. Lots of times when you are an attractive women out come the white knights. Some with good intentions, but also some with ulterior motives. All of that leads to drama

Frankly all of that is part of what a good Man brings to a family. Good Husbands/fathers bring stability. He can be the bull work and anchor for them when there is a storm. I consider that one of the most important responsibilities in my marriage. And making my wife feel safe isn't just physically but emotionally. That means planing ahead and just relieving the load at times. Hell I have learned that the so many women in our modern age seem to deal with so much guilt. Guilt that guys just don't deal with. So a lot of my role as a husband and even coworker with some authority is to say - "You are doing great, stop worrying and take a mental brake from that." For my wife it's, "the house doesn't have to be cleaned this week, please just read and relax". Or even better cleaning the house before she gets a chance. But lots of men fail at that miserably. By the way this is true for Men without women in their lives too, in other ways.

So maybe what I am saying is drama can follow single people in different ways. Don't discount that.

In the end of the day how much thought is put into any of this, often times we just pick who is around and single, at least it's better now then it used to be. When I was single it was mostly who you happened to bump into. Now everyone is connected in a way.
 

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Respectfully, any woman who would knee you in the groin on purpose or humiliate you in public (unless provoked b assault, etc) is not a low drama or nice person. I don't buy it for a moment that someone isn't aware that is an acceptable way to treat another person.
You are welcome to your opinions, but the woman who publicly humiliated me, I knew from grade school, and in college, I was probably the first boy she dated. She was an extremely sweet, polite, honor roll type of young woman. After our first date (and last date) to an all campus speech/lecture, she turned to a girl friend like I wasn't there, and asked her friend how she could tell me she didn't really want to go out with me again. After they finished their discussion, I told her it would have been far better to simply in private tell me she enjoyed herself, but didn't want to date me. I walked her home. She later realized what she had done and wrote me the most apologetic letter, I have ever gotten saying how sorry she was.

The one who kneed me in the groin was a very nice freshman girl, I dated in college while I was starting my sophomore year in college. We dated for a few months. We had been getting more serious and involved with making out and heavy petting to orgasm for some time and one night she freaked out. Later she explained that she had wanted to go farther to intercourse, but got so scared about her own feelings that she just needed to stop and leave, so she kneed me in the groin and left. If she had said to stop or slow down I would have respected her wishes. Instead, according to her, it was her emotions that were scaring her and she reacted in the only way she could think of to stop what was happening.

Needless to say, I never dated either women again. In both cases, I believe it was inexperience that caused their actions. That is why in between the two of them, I liked dating women who had dated several men much more for a while. Although they were a little more maintenance, they didn't destroy me emotionally when I was vulnerable. It was much safer for me emotionally. I was just one of several guys they were interested in.

Although, these other women were fun, we never seemed to emotionally connect. Not long afterwards toward the end of my sophomore year in college, I reconnected with a nice girl I had meet at the end of my freshman year and we really did fall in love with each other. We have been married for a little less than 50 years.
 

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Why'd you say that? I'm curious .
There are loads of folks in bad emotional condition, coming here for help, support and advice and they are not in a great position to be getting into a new relationship or making any decisions that could impact their lives.

There was one guy that had to be seriously corrected for hitting on a vulnerable woman who came here for advice about her marriage.

I'm sure consenting adults can feel each other out here but most folks aren't looking for that on TAM.

There has been some who were harassed as well.
 

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I couldn't understand the attraction but she was a very good abuser and manipulator.
My theory is that the less physically attractive a woman is, the deeper the love that man has for her. Kind of like Prince Ch arles' love life.
 

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There are loads of folks in bad emotional condition, coming here for help, support and advice and they are not in a great position to be getting into a new relationship or making any decisions that could impact their lives.

There was one guy that had to be seriously corrected for hitting on a vulnerable woman who came here for advice about her marriage.

I'm sure consenting adults can feel each other out here but most folks aren't looking for that on TAM.

There has been some who were harassed as well.
That guy sounds like a real winner, but even so, that's what report and ignore are for, right?

I suppose my curiosity was more so that the people who end up single and are interested in self-development would be able to connect with other like-minded people. I can see that, but I guess I figure people should conduct themselves in a decent manner. I'm still pretty idealistic in a lot of ways.

Personally, I wouldn't message some guy on here to express interest even if I were single, b/c it doesn't seem appropriate and I'm well aware that even though many of us share our stories, we don't share 100% of it.
 

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You are welcome to your opinions, but the woman who publicly humiliated me, I knew from grade school, and in college, I was probably the first boy she dated. She was an extremely sweet, polite, honor roll type of young woman. After our first date (and last date) to an all campus speech/lecture, she turned to a girl friend like I wasn't there, and asked her friend how she could tell me she didn't really want to go out with me again. After they finished their discussion, I told her it would have been far better to simply in private tell me she enjoyed herself, but didn't want to date me. I walked her home. She later realized what she had done and wrote me the most apologetic letter, I have ever gotten saying how sorry she was.

The one who kneed me in the groin was a very nice freshman girl, I dated in college while I was starting my sophomore year in college. We dated for a few months. We had been getting more serious and involved with making out and heavy petting to orgasm for some time and one night she freaked out. Later she explained that she had wanted to go farther to intercourse, but got so scared about her own feelings that she just needed to stop and leave, so she kneed me in the groin and left. If she had said to stop or slow down I would have respected her wishes. Instead, according to her, it was her emotions that were scaring her and she reacted in the only way she could think of to stop what was happening.

Needless to say, I never dated either women again. In both cases, I believe it was inexperience that caused their actions. That is why in between the two of them, I liked dating women who had dated several men much more for a while. Although they were a little more maintenance, they didn't destroy me emotionally when I was vulnerable. It was much safer for me emotionally. I was just one of several guys they were interested in.

Although, these other women were fun, we never seemed to emotionally connect. Not long afterwards toward the end of my sophomore year in college, I reconnected with a nice girl I had meet at the end of my freshman year and we really did fall in love with each other. We have been married for a little less than 50 years.
I'll take your word on it, you lived it after all.
 

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So I gave you the cynical take but I don't want to leave it there (big surprise).

I think some people are very nice people but just unlucky or are paying for poor decision making when they were young and immature. So just because a women has drama around her doesn't mean she isn't a great catch. I mentioned my Mother in my other post, but in her defense her father who wasn't in her life much died when she was 5. She never really had a father or a father figure so her picker never really developed. A lot of her life was drama but most of that was born out of the men she picked. My Father who cheated and my Step-father who was a poor choice. Once I finally convinced her to dump him, she vowed off men forever and for the last 20 years has had a very stable thriving life.

The irony is if my Father wasn't a cheater they may have had a good marriage in the sense that my father was the perfect type of man for her. Very stable, reserved, well respected. Though I was young I still remember there was was a calmness in her with my Dad that there never was afterwords even now that she is very successful. Besides that he always had her deep respect, and until he cheated he deserved it. Besides his cheating (which agreed this is a very big failing) there is no one in my life who I have ever met who was smarter or more on the ball then my Dad. My Dad is the most impressive guy I know, and I am not just saying that because he is my Dad, much of that is the life he has lived. I could tell stories of the people he met and the things he did before he retired but I won't here to protect my anonymity. Point is he was really good at being stable as far as ordinary life, and she respected him enough to follow his lead. Some of the more crazy people that ended up being a part of my young life (mostly Church related), would have never even tried to be around if my Dad was there, and he would have told my Mom "um nope", and she would have respected him enough to listen. My Step-father on the other had attracted them.

Another thing that brought drama was are lack of money when I was young. Being financially unstable just leads to drama. My parents divorce really contributed to that. My Dad being divorced twice and with a group of kids, essentially paying off two mortgages at the time didn't have a lot of money even though he made a very good salary. Then my Step-father couldn't keep a job. So we didn't have a lot of money. Well when you heat brakes down and you can't afford money to fix it, you ask for help. Lots of times when you are an attractive women out come the white knights. Some with good intentions, but also some with ulterior motives. All of that leads to drama

Frankly all of that is part of what a good Man brings to a family. Good Husbands/fathers bring stability. He can be the bull work and anchor for them when there is a storm. I consider that one of the most important responsibilities in my marriage. And making my wife feel safe isn't just physically but emotionally. That means planing ahead and just relieving the load at times. Hell I have learned that the so many women in our modern age seem to deal with so much guilt. Guilt that guys just don't deal with. So a lot of my role as a husband and even coworker with some authority is to say - "You are doing great, stop worrying and take a mental brake from that." For my wife it's, "the house doesn't have to be cleaned this week, please just read and relax". Or even better cleaning the house before she gets a chance. But lots of men fail at that miserably. By the way this is true for Men without women in their lives too, in other ways.

So maybe what I am saying is drama can follow single people in different ways. Don't discount that.

In the end of the day how much thought is put into any of this, often times we just pick who is around and single, at least it's better now then it used to be. When I was single it was mostly who you happened to bump into. Now everyone is connected in a way.
Thank you for sharing your story, I appreciate the insight.

I think everyone has a certain amount of drama in their lives, and anyone who says they're 100% drama-free 100% of the time aren't very realistic/honest.

In my experience, I choose what I will/will not deal with, and then figure out how to deal with it in a way that decreases the impact. I think, people see things from the outside, make judgments, compare their lives, and label "drama" on their scale.
 

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Thank you for sharing your story, I appreciate the insight.

I think everyone has a certain amount of drama in their lives, and anyone who says they're 100% drama-free 100% of the time aren't very realistic/honest.

In my experience, I choose what I will/will not deal with, and then figure out how to deal with it in a way that decreases the impact. I think, people see things from the outside, make judgments, compare their lives, and label "drama" on their scale.
Agreed in general, we all have a certain amount of tolerance, and one person's drama may be anthers normal. Also where some folks are in life my offer them little choice.

There are also people who make decisions that they know will cause drama over and over. Who treat people in a way were drama follows. Or who are willing to put of with bad behavior that causes drama for whatever reason.
 
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Personally, I wouldn't message some guy on here to express interest even if I were single, b/c it doesn't seem appropriate and I'm well aware that even though many of us share our stories, we don't share 100% of it.
I was a member on a different forum like this one and I had a couple of ladies on there message me who seemed interested. It never went anywhere though.

We are the hero of our own tale. I would love to see the other side of things for many of the stories shared here. I know I have heard both sides of a few breakups and it always puts things into perspective. Like I had an ex who told people I was abusive to her because I shoved her down hard during an argument. She failed to mention to everyone that she came at me trying to hit me in the face with a landline phone. An abusive guy would have done more than just push her away.
 

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Same.

I often wonder this too, I mean, my bestie is married to a detective. He deals with murderers, rapists, bikies on the daily, but when he gets home he removes his balls and puts them in her purse. She controls everything he does - where he goes, who he's with, what he spends. I don't know why he tolerates it.
I have an employee like that, makes me nuts. He is a retired Chief Petty Officer and now acts like a new boot and wife is the Admiral. He is so stressed he takes meds for it.
If you are trying to justify men staying with BSC by saying all attractive/hot women are BSC so if you want to be with any kind of attractive women it's just something you just have to put up with, I cry extreme ****.

Either that or, I'll just have to label all of those men extremely stupid/must be something mentally and emotionally wrong with them if they are deliberately making that choice to pick someone crazy.

Lastly, I will add (and this won't be popular with some men) I do think poorly of the character of men who stay long term with BSC just because she's super physically attractive.
Said nothing about attractive/hot women.
 
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