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Why I did with him and not you...

1. You’re a beta male and doesn’t solicit that kind of response
2. It’s a shameful part of her life and doesn’t want to relive it
3. She’s a mom now and that’s just gross
4. She was having audition sex
5. She was having her fun and how that part of life is over


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It’s funny, you know.

I read stuff like this, and I’m kinda left wondering. I mean, plenty of women have said no to me about plenty of things, current wife included.

However, I’ve almost unilaterally found that if you drop it and move on to the next best thing, you often get that. And then, eventually what you wanted in the first place, too.

And often, it’s a timing thing. I mean, ask a woman for some crazy thing over tea and she’ll often tell you no. Ask her that same thing when you’ve driven her mental for a half hour or an hour in bed, and she’s crazy turned on... and you almost always get a yes.

Only exception was my ex wife. Who was cheating on me. Go figure.
 

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So the dependable, long-term beta guy gets the cold-fish sex, and the jersey-shore one night stand meathead gets the good stuff.
You know what's funny? That's not the way I read @Girl_power 's post at all. It seems to me that she views her own self as a bit of a sex freak (in the good way), and that she did things with BF1 and BF2 that were sexually edgy because THEY were sexually edgy. And she liked that because SHE is sexually edgy. For her, BF3 was a lovely human being and all, but he was more restricted in his sexual expression, and thus, it didn't seems as exciting to her. Hey, as I understand it...to each his/her own! She likes a sexy freak! :x

The thing that really struck me about this thread the most, though, is that for me...it's almost 100% the opposite. I think of myself as pretty sexually open-minded but not "freaky" really. I tend to love the person first, and then because I love them, I can "get into it" sexually. Thus for me, I think I would have felt like BF1 and BF2 were just in it for the sex and not in it for "me." I mean, when I am committed to someone, I think we could do almost anything we wanted (with the exception of pain), and I'd be game for it. But I get to the state of mind to really feel safe and expressive when there's commitment--before that, for me, it feels like too much of just "technique" rather than loving expression. Make sense?

In my lifetime, I've loved men and women. I eventually chose to pick male partners, but with every single person, I've loved them first...then gotten sexual. And with the people who turned out to be my best lovers, we start less freaky and gradually add this here...that there...and just expanded our sexual vocabulary together. It was more like exploring together, than one of us having a desire to go look at someplace that the other hadn't been. In addition, I am on the more responsive/passive side and love a person who initiates and leads, but I'm not a fish. It's just more like "let me learn what you find enjoyable, let me show you what I enjoy, and let's go these new places together and decide if we like them."

I'm not saying my partners were beta--shoot have ya MET @Emerging Buddhist ? But the guys who really heat me up are the quiet, nerdy, dependable types. They are usually smart, witty, imaginative, fun, playful, wonderful people AND steady like a foundation on which you can build trust and safety. To me, once that foundation is laid, THEN the sexcapades appear.
 

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Why I did with him and not you...

1. You’re a beta male and doesn’t solicit that kind of response
2. It’s a shameful part of her life and doesn’t want to relive it
3. She’s a mom now and that’s just gross
4. She was having audition sex
5. She was having her fun and how that part of life is over


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
So the dependable, long-term beta guy gets the cold-fish sex, and the jersey-shore one night stand meathead gets the good stuff.
Pretty much has always been this way
 

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I think there are two points to be made to something like this. Some women use sex transactionally as a kind of a barter system which is very common in hook up culture (men too in different ways) . If you marry someone like that then your sex life is probably going to struggle because that is a very unhealthy way of thinking about sex.

The other and what OP's post seems to be about is and especially what men need to wrap there head around is that desire for women isn't love based, maybe it is in the beginning but not after long periods of marriage. For some reason (probably movies and such) men grow up believing it is. I mean look at the shows we grew up watching does anyone believe in real life Elizabeth Montgomery would be married to a shlub like Darren Stephens?

I mean when you think about it is our (meaning men) desire love based? What makes you want to go bang your wife's brains out, how good she cooked dinner that night, or the thong she is wearing? Why would it be any different for women? Now I do think women are more complicated and desire for them isn't so tied into the visual, but in my mind that actually is of some benefit.

That is the point, if you want to get your wife to treat you like the Jersey Shore guy learn what makes her tick and be the Jersey Shore guy for her.

Now the key to all that is you didn't marry a women who thinks like my first paragraph (transactionally). But one who is open to communicate and you can learn what makes her hot and bothered. But YES you are going to have to work at it. Everyone does. Marriage even good sex takes work.

As I say over and over on here, your sex life doesn't have to be static.
 

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Discussion Starter #106
You know what's funny? That's not the way I read @Girl_power 's post at all. It seems to me that she views her own self as a bit of a sex freak (in the good way), and that she did things with BF1 and BF2 that were sexually edgy because THEY were sexually edgy. And she liked that because SHE is sexually edgy. For her, BF3 was a lovely human being and all, but he was more restricted in his sexual expression, and thus, it didn't seems as exciting to her. Hey, as I understand it...to each his/her own! She likes a sexy freak! :x

The thing that really struck me about this thread the most, though, is that for me...it's almost 100% the opposite. I think of myself as pretty sexually open-minded but not "freaky" really. I tend to love the person first, and then because I love them, I can "get into it" sexually. Thus for me, I think I would have felt like BF1 and BF2 were just in it for the sex and not in it for "me." I mean, when I am committed to someone, I think we could do almost anything we wanted (with the exception of pain), and I'd be game for it. But I get to the state of mind to really feel safe and expressive when there's commitment--before that, for me, it feels like too much of just "technique" rather than loving expression. Make sense?

In my lifetime, I've loved men and women. I eventually chose to pick male partners, but with every single person, I've loved them first...then gotten sexual. And with the people who turned out to be my best lovers, we start less freaky and gradually add this here...that there...and just expanded our sexual vocabulary together. It was more like exploring together, than one of us having a desire to go look at someplace that the other hadn't been. In addition, I am on the more responsive/passive side and love a person who initiates and leads, but I'm not a fish. It's just more like "let me learn what you find enjoyable, let me show you what I enjoy, and let's go these new places together and decide if we like them."

I'm not saying my partners were beta--shoot have ya MET @Emerging Buddhist ? But the guys who really heat me up are the quiet, nerdy, dependable types. They are usually smart, witty, imaginative, fun, playful, wonderful people AND steady like a foundation on which you can build trust and safety. To me, once that foundation is laid, THEN the sexcapades appear.


I just what your saying. Just to clarify, my first boyfriend was my husband and we waited till marriage to have sex. So there was definitely love before sex. The second and third there was sex before love. I guess with me it doesn’t make a difference which one comes first.
 

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It’s funny, you know.

I read stuff like this, and I’m kinda left wondering. I mean, plenty of women have said no to me about plenty of things, current wife included.

However, I’ve almost unilaterally found that if you drop it and move on to the next best thing, you often get that. And then, eventually what you wanted in the first place, too.

And often, it’s a timing thing. I mean, ask a woman for some crazy thing over tea and she’ll often tell you no. Ask her that same thing when you’ve driven her mental for a half hour or an hour in bed, and she’s crazy turned on... and you almost always get a yes.

Only exception was my ex wife. Who was cheating on me. Go figure.
I'd say that describes me pretty well. Something might sound too out there when I'm not in the mood but it takes on a much better shine when I'm in the moment and super turned on.

But unlike the posts that say Mr Dependable gets the boring stuff and Mr One Night Stand gets the funky stuff, I am much more likely to get funky with Mr Dependable because we have a real relationship and the whole relationship affects how I see our sex life. For example, I've got the flu this week. My guy and I had to take a few days off so I made a joke that I would have sex as long as he knew it would be total starfish sex as I was honestly too weak for much more than that. He laughed and said "No thanks...that will never be something I want from you, I'd rather we both be into it" and that tells me that sex with me is about more than just insert tab a into opening b and getting off. So if he asks for something I've never considered before I won't be thinking "He just wants that act" I'll be thinking "he wants to do that WITH me, not to me" and that's makes a huge difference to me. But even so, if it's something I've never considered before, he will definitely have a better chance if he asks during sex once I'm already all worked up.
 

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I'd say that describes me pretty well. Something might sound too out there when I'm not in the mood but it takes on a much better shine when I'm in the moment and super turned on.
This has been extremely common in my experience. If I'm into someone, I'll be as up for something 'out there' over tea as I am when we're in the swing of things. But the women I've been with have been more like you almost without exception.

But unlike the posts that say Mr Dependable gets the boring stuff and Mr One Night Stand gets the funky stuff, I am much more likely to get funky with Mr Dependable because we have a real relationship and the whole relationship affects how I see our sex life.
Exactly. But good old mr dependable also needs to be upfront about what he wants, create a situation by which it's easy and desirable for you to say yes to it, and have all the logistics about it sorted out.

Let's give an non-kinky (to me) example: Say mr dependable wants to see you in lingerie. You're with him in the mall, you walk past victoria's secret or whatever, and instead of shuffling along, he's gotta say "hey, listen, I've always wanted to see you in something like this..." and then you go in. Or at least have a conversation about it. At which time you say "maybe..." or "sure" or "perhaps one day..." Basically he's gotta receive anything but a "no way in hell will I ever do this" as at least a "maybe."

Let's say you don't go in and buy something on the spot, but you say "maybe one day." So then, he's gotta make that one day happen. Remember, he's the one that wants this, so he's gotta do the work for it. He can't just sit there waiting for you to go to the store, buy something that is exactly what he meant by 'lingerie,' put it on for you the next day, and have everything be great. He's gotta go to the store, he's gotta know you're measurements (nothing unsexier apparently than buying lingerie the wrong size), he's gotta pick out what he wants, and then he's gotta gift it to you.

And even then, his work isn't done. He's gotta create a scenario in which you want to put it on. He's gotta get you all in the mood, he's gotta get the kids put to bed, music on, lights low, warm room, make out with you and get your motor running, and then whisper in your ear "I'd love to see you in..."

And then maybe it happens, and he's gotta compliment and get all googly eyed and be appreciative and then rock your world. And if it doesn't happen, he's gotta do all that anyway with a smile on his face so you don't feel forced or coerced into doing something and have him be passive aggressive about it. And then he's gotta do the whole thing again a night or two or a week or a month later, and roll the dice one more time.

That's what I mean.

For example, I've got the flu this week. My guy and I had to take a few days off so I made a joke that I would have sex as long as he knew it would be total starfish sex as I was honestly too weak for much more than that. He laughed and said "No thanks...that will never be something I want from you, I'd rather we both be into it" and that tells me that sex with me is about more than just insert tab a into opening b and getting off. So if he asks for something I've never considered before I won't be thinking "He just wants that act" I'll be thinking "he wants to do that WITH me, not to me" and that's makes a huge difference to me. But even so, if it's something I've never considered before, he will definitely have a better chance if he asks during sex once I'm already all worked up.
If she's sick, I do the same. Just go into caretaking mode. If she's just tired or something, sometimes I do the opposite - I go all mr sexy on her, and watch her try to just lay there starfish style and not get into it. It's like a dare. Often, she gets very into it.
 

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Exactly. But good old mr dependable also needs to be upfront about what he wants, create a situation by which it's easy and desirable for you to say yes to it, and have all the logistics about it sorted out.


Being upfront about what you want always seems to work better anyway about all things, not just sex. But I'm not sure it's fair to say he has to have all the logistics worked out on his own and do all the work of making it easy and desirable. That seems too one sided to me.


Let's give an non-kinky (to me) example: Say mr dependable wants to see you in lingerie. You're with him in the mall, you walk past victoria's secret or whatever, and instead of shuffling along, he's gotta say "hey, listen, I've always wanted to see you in something like this..." and then you go in. Or at least have a conversation about it. At which time you say "maybe..." or "sure" or "perhaps one day..." Basically he's gotta receive anything but a "no way in hell will I ever do this" as at least a "maybe."

Let's say you don't go in and buy something on the spot, but you say "maybe one day." So then, he's gotta make that one day happen. Remember, he's the one that wants this, so he's gotta do the work for it. He can't just sit there waiting for you to go to the store, buy something that is exactly what he meant by 'lingerie,' put it on for you the next day, and have everything be great. He's gotta go to the store, he's gotta know you're measurements (nothing unsexier apparently than buying lingerie the wrong size), he's gotta pick out what he wants, and then he's gotta gift it to you.

And even then, his work isn't done. He's gotta create a scenario in which you want to put it on. He's gotta get you all in the mood, he's gotta get the kids put to bed, music on, lights low, warm room, make out with you and get your motor running, and then whisper in your ear "I'd love to see you in..."

And then maybe it happens, and he's gotta compliment and get all googly eyed and be appreciative and then rock your world. And if it doesn't happen, he's gotta do all that anyway with a smile on his face so you don't feel forced or coerced into doing something and have him be passive aggressive about it. And then he's gotta do the whole thing again a night or two or a week or a month later, and roll the dice one more time.

That's what I mean.

Jeez...that is VERY one sided. If it were me, and my guy said "I'd love to see you in some sexy lingerie. I'd take some of the ownership in making it happen. I'd go into the store with him, see what he likes, show him what I like, and buy something together. Once I wore it for him I'd appreciate it greatly if he threw some compliments my way and rocked my world. That would 100% increase the chance of my wearing it again. Or I'd buy something and surprise him with it. My guy told me recently something he'd love to see me in...he said it in passing, like it wasn't a really big deal if he never actually got to see it. It's sitting in my drawer right now waiting for a good opportunity to wear it. I'm thinking next time we go away.

He told me recently about a long time fantasy of his...nothing too kinky...very easy to do for him. It will happen for him. And I will thoroughly enjoy it knowing how much he'll enjoy it.


If she's sick, I do the same. Just go into caretaking mode. If she's just tired or something, sometimes I do the opposite - I go all mr sexy on her, and watch her try to just lay there starfish style and not get into it. It's like a dare. Often, she gets very into it.

LOL...that's a fun challenge.If I'm just tired, he can get me going...and he loves to do it. He seems to instinctively know when I'm just your average tired vs bone weary tired. He'll do the challenge for the former and tuck me into bed for the latter. It's really nice to have someone in my life like that, I feel pretty lucky. So when he tells me there's something that would make him happy, my first instinct is to do it for him.
 

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Being upfront about what you want always seems to work better anyway about all things, not just sex. But I'm not sure it's fair to say he has to have all the logistics worked out on his own and do all the work of making it easy and desirable. That seems too one sided to me.
My point is that he should proactively assume that if he wants something, then he's the one that's going to have to do the work for it. If you choose to do it, and say "OK, I'm game, why don't I surprise you with something sometime" then bonus!

But too many people I think assume that by just vocalizing or wishing for something that their spouse should bear the burden for reverse engineering what it is they want, and then providing it for them.

How many guys for example have said on these forums "I wish my wife would do X" and they've never asked for it? Or they wish their wife would wear something or use something and they've never actually provided it? Or never created the situation where they might be willing to do it?

Jeez...that is VERY one sided. If it were me, and my guy said "I'd love to see you in some sexy lingerie. I'd take some of the ownership in making it happen. I'd go into the store with him, see what he likes, show him what I like, and buy something together. Once I wore it for him I'd appreciate it greatly if he threw some compliments my way and rocked my world. That would 100% increase the chance of my wearing it again. Or I'd buy something and surprise him with it. My guy told me recently something he'd love to see me in...he said it in passing, like it wasn't a really big deal if he never actually got to see it. It's sitting in my drawer right now waiting for a good opportunity to wear it. I'm thinking next time we go away.
And that's fantastic. But I've known plenty of women that aren't like that at all. Hell, I know of one that won't buy a vibrator even though both of them want one. My response to that would be that if you want it, go and get it. But don't both sit there expecting the other person to do it for you, and if it's something only one person wants, then that person should assume the burden of making it happen.

If the other person is gung ho, then again, that's a bonus.

He told me recently about a long time fantasy of his...nothing too kinky...very easy to do for him. It will happen for him. And I will thoroughly enjoy it knowing how much he'll enjoy it.
Groovy!
 

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My point is that he should proactively assume that if he wants something, then he's the one that's going to have to do the work for it. If you choose to do it, and say "OK, I'm game, why don't I surprise you with something sometime" then bonus!

But too many people I think assume that by just vocalizing or wishing for something that their spouse should bear the burden for reverse engineering what it is they want, and then providing it for them.

How many guys for example have said on these forums "I wish my wife would do X" and they've never asked for it? Or they wish their wife would wear something or use something and they've never actually provided it? Or never created the situation where they might be willing to do it?
That's true...I just think that as a willing, loving, partner I want to take on some of that responsibility too. Someday I'll be the one who wants something and I'd feel better about it if he met me half way at least...otherwise I'd feel like he was just going along but didn't really want to be doing it and that would take all the pleasure out of it. I'd hate for my partner to feel that way so I make sure to meet him halfway at a minimum.

People tell me all the time I'm not like most women in a lot of ways...maybe it's true in this case too.
 

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That's true...I just think that as a willing, loving, partner I want to take on some of that responsibility too. Someday I'll be the one who wants something and I'd feel better about it if he met me half way at least...otherwise I'd feel like he was just going along but didn't really want to be doing it and that would take all the pleasure out of it. I'd hate for my partner to feel that way so I make sure to meet him halfway at a minimum.

People tell me all the time I'm not like most women in a lot of ways...maybe it's true in this case too.
I think most couples in a functional loving long term relationship are probably closer to the "meet half way point" for most things illustrated in Marduk's example, but the point is well taken.
 

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That's true...I just think that as a willing, loving, partner I want to take on some of that responsibility too. Someday I'll be the one who wants something and I'd feel better about it if he met me half way at least...otherwise I'd feel like he was just going along but didn't really want to be doing it and that would take all the pleasure out of it. I'd hate for my partner to feel that way so I make sure to meet him halfway at a minimum.

People tell me all the time I'm not like most women in a lot of ways...maybe it's true in this case too.
Oh, my wife is more like you than she isn't. My point is not that mr dependables often turn out to also be mr passive-aggressive and mr boring and wonder why they don't get what they want.

I think about sex like I think about food.

Steak is great. But steak every night would probably wear thin after a while. Sushi's good, too. But maybe once a week.

If my wife normally is the one that cooks and makes me steak every night and I want sushi... well then I better learn how to make sushi, nicely ask her if she'll make sushi, or make a reservation at a sushi place. Rejecting steak because I don't get sushi isn't going to make anybody happy.

And if my wife doesn't want sushi, then I guess pizza sounds great, too. Or Thai. Or Italian. There's an infinite amount of different kinds of food, with plenty to try that we both like. No point in getting hung up about any one kind of food or any one dish because life is a buffet. But I have to be a part of the work to bring it to the table.
 

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I'm going to agree with getting a woman worked up, feeling sexy, feeling appreciated, etc. having a greater impact on how much and how many things they will do with you as opposed to asking over tea. LoL!

The Amazon I dated did some things with me without being asked because I just led the way sexually and she was very turned on.

Her next partner asked for some of the same things and she refused. Partially, probably, because he asked without getting her motor running fast enough and she straight up told me she wasn't into him as much.
 

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So the dependable, long-term beta guy gets the cold-fish sex, and the jersey-shore one night stand meathead gets the good stuff.
samyeagar said:
People tend to put in an amount effort that is proportional to how important something is to them. Peoples actions tend to reflect their feelings.
Over the long term, yes. Actions reflect feelings. However, the beta guy gets the "audition sex", but a week (or a couple days) into the marriage, the REAL feelings take over.
 

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Over the long term, yes. Actions reflect feelings. However, the beta guy gets the "audition sex", but a week (or a couple days) into the marriage, the REAL feelings take over.
Also known as the bait and switch. I am really suprised at how many men and women put up with it
 

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Also known as the bait and switch. I am really suprised at how many men and women put up with it


Obviously no one should be baiting and switching anyone. When people think of the old “bait and switch” they usually think of women letting themselves go and not having good sex anymore.
But I do want to add that a lot of men also do the bait and switch with their wives. Men that were once romantic and spontaneous and good conversationalist and watched chick flicks and bought gifts and flowers etc. “switch” after marriage and become more lazy and not as into their wife as they were before they got married.

I think it happens both ways. Men and women have “audition” personality or behavior and once they seal the deal then they can relax, un-bottom their pants and stop trying so hard. It’s sad.
 

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Also known as the bait and switch. I am really suprised at how many men and women put up with it


Obviously no one should be baiting and switching anyone. When people think of the old “bait and switch” they usually think of women letting themselves go and not having good sex anymore.
But I do want to add that a lot of men also do the bait and switch with their wives. Men that were once romantic and spontaneous and good conversationalist and watched chick flicks and bought gifts and flowers etc. “switch” after marriage and become more lazy and not as into their wife as they were before they got married.

I think it happens both ways. Men and women have “audition” personality or behavior and once they seal the deal then they can relax, un-bottom their pants and stop trying so hard. It’s sad.
I absolutely agree. That's why I said I was suprised how many men and women try to live with it. It's a shame
 
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