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Just sharing my limited experience and point of view hoping it will help some men.

I am HD, I consider myself a “disgusting pervert” but I am not very kinky. I have had 3 sexual partners.

The first was my exH. And he was a “disgusting pervert” like me. He made me feel like he was obsessed with me. He would kiss my feet, and loved going down on me and licking my butt. I can tell he loved it, not necessarily because I liked it and that’s an important point. If I texted him I’m horny he would be like wait for me!! And rush home. We had phone sex when we were apart. I felt sexually very comfortable with him.

My next partner was after the divorce and I was more self conscious. Let’s call him mark. Mark was also a disgusting pervert like me. He loved sex, and anal, and oral, and he had a fetish for cream pies. He made me feel very sexually comfortable, like I didn’t have to be perfect and he still made me feel like I was a supermodel/porn star. We would Snapchat and masterbate together when we were apart. He loved a straight view of my vagina, and me masterbating. I don’t think most men like to see the vagina that up close, they would rather see the whole picture or boobs or whatever. He also wanted me to do things I didn’t want to do like finger my ass, but the fact that he wanted me to do that was a turn on for me.

My last partner was not a disgusting pervert, he was normal and like normal sex and watched normal porn. Let’s call him Tom. Tom and I got along great outside of the bedroom. Sex was good, he lasted a long time and usually always made me orgasm. But he was missing that oomph. He told me he liked going down on me, but I could tell he didn’t. I can tell by the way he did it, how often he did it etc. I can tell that he did it because he knew I liked it and not because he loved it. He did not make me feel sexually comfortable because I felt like I was a bigger “freak” then him, but also I can tell he wasn’t obsessed with my body like my other partners were. He made me feel like I had to look my best all the time. One time while we were in bed he drew my attention to my inner thigh because I guess I forgot to shave there or something. It pissed me off. He liked me to wear nice underwear, preferably matching (which I never did). He made me feel like I had to dress up for him in order for him to want to have sex with me. I was not sexually open to him or comfortable with him. Even though he would SAY he wanted me to be, and he would SAY all the right things.

My point is that, it was day and night between my first 2 partners and my third. And Tom and j had good sex, and occasionally anal sex, but we never had great sex. He was inhibited, and self conscious and too in his head, and he did things bc he wanted me to enjoy them but I can tell he didn’t really enjoy them. While the others just enjoyed themselves If that makes sense.


I don’t know if this was helpful or not haha.
 

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Thank you for sharing this.

EDIT: After posting, I worried that the short response would be interpreted as sarcasm, so to clarify, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to write this.

This is a perennial and inevitable topic on any relationship-centered forum (and some non-relationship forums) so any data points society can get about this are much appreciated, at least by me.
 

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This is a good post but what is interesting to me about this post is how passive you are in all of it. It's all up to the guy to make YOU feel that way. I suspect given your description Tom wasn't interested in really kinky sex anyway. Did he ask you to do things for him that you wouldn't? I think your situation is different in that way as it sounds like you weren't turning him down so much as he was disinterested in anything further. Who knows maybe with a different partner Tom would write the same post about your sex life that you did.

Not that is unusual though, but it always seems like all of this is the man's job, if she isn't turned on it's his fault, if he isn't turned on it's his fault. It's just funny when husbands write posts like this about their wives (about how they are boring in bed or whatever) there usually is a big push back. I mean imagine the same post with a guy talking about how he can tell his wife isn't into oral sex, how would that go over?

I think the real issue is that people don't try to get better at it they just assume it's that way to stay. I'm of the opinion that sex is not static, the worst kind of lover is the kind that doesn't try to improve the situation and just assumes that it's stuck not taking agency in their sex life.

If your spouse (man or women) isn't turned on by you maybe you aren't doing the things that turn them on. Sex is not something someone does to you it's something you do together.

I general I think there are a few reasons why this situation happens. Let's take out the women who are vanilla an always will be. The first is the wife didn't kinky things in her past as a kind of currency to get past boyfriends to like them, maybe even their husbands who they are now vanilla. The whole thing was a kind of bate and switch. This kind of person who uses sex as currency is always going to suck in bed. They don't get it, and they probably never will. They may also cheat and go right back to that pattern of doing the kinky stuff at the beginning but that is because they do the kinky stuff at the beginning of every relationship. It's not that they are really into it it's just that they know it's a good "selling point".

This is really the worst kind of person to be married to in terms of sex, and why I would tell any young person to really investigate how involved their potential mate doesn't use sex as a kind of currency as a part of hook up culture which seems to be typical. There is a difference. OP for instance just likes it.

Another reason is there are issues in the relationship, probably hurts and the wife doesn't feel close to her husband anymore (doesn't matter who is responsible). Or she is very tired from life. Maybe she has even taken him for granted. But in this case maybe you can heal that and it can get better if you work on it and if both people understand that it's something they can do for fun. The point being if she is into it she will be into it again.

There is also the idea that some women need the right kind of man to help them feel safe and comfortable to open up sexually.

Your situation just sounds like he wasn't interested in it so I don't think he is disappointing he didn't have it.
 

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This is a good post but what is interesting to me about this post is how passive you are in all of it. It's all up to the guy to make YOU feel that way. Maybe YOUR third husband would write the same post about you. Maybe you just didn't do it for him.

Not that is unusual though, but it always seems like all of this is the man's job, if she isn't turned on it's his fault, if he isn't turned on it's his fault. It's just funny when husbands write posts like this about their wives (about how they are boring in bed or whatever) there usually is a big push back. I mean imagine the same post with a guy talking about how he can tell his wife isn't into oral sex, how would that go over?

I'm of the opinion that sex is not static, the worst kind of lover is the kind that doesn't try to improve the situation and just assumes that it's stuck and also don't take responsibility for at least 50% of their sex life.

If your spouse (man or women) isn't turned on by you maybe you aren't doing the things that turn them on.


I am not passive. But from my viewpoint it takes 2 to make sex great.
Not to toot my own horn but I’m good in bed. Tom (third boyfriend), told me I was hands down the best sex he has ever had, and it’s not because I am skillful, it’s because I LOVE sex. In the beginning of the relationship the sex was awesome, but I didn’t realize it at the time but it was bc I was carrying it. He told me his ex use to tell him he has a low sex drive (he does). He also told me that he never once went down on his ex girlfriend of 6 years because she was unhygienic.

Anyway, jt isn’t the mans job and I didn’t mean for it to come across the way. I think that when your with someone who is equally and genuinely enjoying sex, it makes you feel more comfortable, and you can enjoy it more. It’s like you are allowed to feel comfortable in your own skin with your likes and dislikes because they are shared. With Tom, I wasn’t going to grab his head and shove him in my vagina when he went down on me bc I know he would be horrified. With my first two partners this was a normal occurrence.

This is not about being one genders fault. It’s about sexual incompatibility. And when your with someone who you are compatible with, it makes you feel more like yourself and less inhibited. Because at the end of the day, we don’t want to do something our partner doesn’t like, so we are inhibited.

Some people get grossed out Easy. Some people need every t crossed before they have sex. Some people don’t like bodily fluids. It is what it is, and although most of us can fake it in the beginning, the truth eventually comes out. Some people are good actors. And it’s not about “being turned on enough”. That’s offensive. Why be with someone if your not turned on by them, especially during the dating part. People who say... well she doesn’t do it for you because you don’t turn her on is offensive and rude. And chances are, she/he is done faking liking it.
 

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I am not passive. But from my viewpoint it takes 2 to make sex great.
Not to toot my own horn but I’m good in bed. Tom (third boyfriend), told me I was hands down the best sex he has ever had, and it’s not because I am skillful, it’s because I LOVE sex. In the beginning of the relationship the sex was awesome, but I didn’t realize it at the time but it was bc I was carrying it. He told me his ex use to tell him he has a low sex drive (he does). He also told me that he never once went down on his ex girlfriend of 6 years because she was unhygienic.

Anyway, jt isn’t the mans job and I didn’t mean for it to come across the way. I think that when your with someone who is equally and genuinely enjoying sex, it makes you feel more comfortable, and you can enjoy it more. It’s like you are allowed to feel comfortable in your own skin with your likes and dislikes because they are shared. With Tom, I wasn’t going to grab his head and shove him in my vagina when he went down on me bc I know he would be horrified. With my first two partners this was a normal occurrence.

This is not about being one genders fault. It’s about sexual incompatibility. And when your with someone who you are compatible with, it makes you feel more like yourself and less inhibited. Because at the end of the day, we don’t want to do something our partner doesn’t like, so we are inhibited.

Some people get grossed out Easy. Some people need every t crossed before they have sex. Some people don’t like bodily fluids. It is what it is, and although most of us can fake it in the beginning, the truth eventually comes out. Some people are good actors. And it’s not about “being turned on enough”. That’s offensive. Why be with someone if your not turned on by them, especially during the dating part. People who say... well she doesn’t do it for you because you don’t turn her on is offensive and rude. And chances are, she/he is done faking liking it.
Hey I rewrote my post as it came across way too harsh, I think I didn't fix it fast enough before I responded. Please re-read the last post as I added stuff as well to better explain my thoughts.

One thing I would say about this is if your partner is grossed out easily then they are probably not going to want to push the envelope anyway right? Like it seems like Tom didn't want to do kinky stuff at least with you. If anything your post kind of matches what a lot of these husbands go through except it's that their wives fake it and act like they enjoy kinky sex when they are dating because they know it gives them a better chance to land these guys. Or they did that and not the act is tainted.

Did you ever try to spice things up with Tom? If not why not, sounds like you would have been more happy if you had a more intense level of sex.
 

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Hey I rewrote my post as it came across way too harsh, I think I didn't fix it fast enough. Please re-read the last post as I added stuff as well to better explain my thoughts.



One thing I would say about this is if your partner is grossed out easily then they are probably not going to want to push the envelope anyway right? Like it seems like Tom didn't want to do kinky stuff at least with you.



Did you ever try to spice things up with Tom? If not why not, sounds like you would have been more happy if you had a more intense level of sex.


In the beginning of the relationship we talked about what we are into, porn we watch, things that we would like to do that we haven’t done etc. he watches “normal” porn. He said he always wanted to try anal but that’s as far as his kinks go. I like anal I’ve had it before so we did it.
The thing is, I am not kinky at least I don’t consider what I like kinky. I like Intercourse, anal, and oral. I don’t like whips and chains, I don’t want anyone else in the bedroom with us. The only thing one could say about me is that I’m aggressive. I like personal, passionate, animalistic sex. I get that it won’t be like that all the time. But I like to please and I like to be pleased. And that involves being verbal and knowing what you like.
It’s like I like oral sex. So yes I’m going to grab his hair and hump his face because it feels great. It turns me on when my partner is turned on, so yes I want to have phone sex or video masterbate together. I like a man that knows what he likes and verbalized it. For example, look at me when you cum, say my name, turn on your back. Or whatever. I’m the same way. To me, it’s not kinky it’s active participation.
With Tom, it was hard to spice things up. He was always stressed out with work, and we only had sex once a week. I tried initiating and it didn’t go anywhere. The only thing he liked was lingerie, and stockings but that just got him in the mood it didn’t change how he was during sex.

The other thing I can’t stand is when someone talks about their past partners sex life negatively. He said all this mean stuff about his ex and how she smells bad and it just upset me because I don’t think that should be shared. And it makes me want to open up less with him bc god forbid something embarrassing happened or whatever I don’t want him to talk about it with other people. That’s a big no no to me.
 

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In the beginning of the relationship we talked about what we are into, porn we watch, things that we would like to do that we haven’t done etc. he watches “normal” porn. He said he always wanted to try anal but that’s as far as his kinks go. I like anal I’ve had it before so we did it.
The thing is, I am not kinky at least I don’t consider what I like kinky. I like Intercourse, anal, and oral. I don’t like whips and chains, I don’t want anyone else in the bedroom with us. The only thing one could say about me is that I’m aggressive. I like personal, passionate, animalistic sex. I get that it won’t be like that all the time. But I like to please and I like to be pleased. And that involves being verbal and knowing what you like.
It’s like I like oral sex. So yes I’m going to grab his hair and hump his face because it feels great. It turns me on when my partner is turned on, so yes I want to have phone sex or video masterbate together. I like a man that knows what he likes and verbalized it. For example, look at me when you cum, say my name, turn on your back. Or whatever. I’m the same way. To me, it’s not kinky it’s active participation.
With Tom, it was hard to spice things up. He was always stressed out with work, and we only had sex once a week. I tried initiating and it didn’t go anywhere. The only thing he liked was lingerie, and stockings but that just got him in the mood it didn’t change how he was during sex.

The other thing I can’t stand is when someone talks about their past partners sex life negatively. He said all this mean stuff about his ex and how she smells bad and it just upset me because I don’t think that should be shared. And it makes me want to open up less with him bc god forbid something embarrassing happened or whatever I don’t want him to talk about it with other people. That’s a big no no to me.
This all makes sense. But again I don't think Tom i the kind of guy that wants more and can't get his wife to be into it, it sounds like YOU are the type to want more. So I am not sure this fits in with the people who end up in this situation, it more like you ended up in the situation like they did. But please don't take that to mean that I don't think this is a good post or that maybe someone else would see it differently. If anything I am just trying to continue the dialog. Maybe the lesson is not to allow yourself to end up in this situation.

The "talking about past lovers" thing kind of touches on what I said in my other post about feeling safe. Feeling comfortable and safe is really the bedrock of a good sex life and should be the first and one of the most important things you try to establish.

You like the phone sex, but others may like to be teased where leaving them wanting more in person is a big turn on. My only point is it's kind of like communication as long as you are working on it always trying to find ways to better communicate it should be getting better. It's when someone stops listening or trying that is the problem.
 

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This all makes sense. But again I don't think Tom i the kind of guy that wants more and can't get his wife to be into it, it sounds like YOU are the type to want more. So I am not sure this fits in with the people who end up in this situation, it more like you ended up in the situation like they did. Maybe the lesson is not to allow yourself to end up in this situation.

The talking thing kind of touches on what I said in my other post about feeling safe. Feeling comfortable and safe is really the bedrock of a good sex life.

You like the phone sex, but others may like to be teased where leaving them wanting more in person is a big turn on. My only point is it's kind of like communication as long as you are working on it always trying to find ways to better communicate it should be getting better. It's when someone stops listening or trying that is the problem.


Correct. Tom doesn’t want more. Tom is easily pleased, and easily made happy. That’s good and bad. In my experience people who are easily happy are lazy because they don’t understand the needs/wants of others, or they don’t grasp the importance of certain things.

But I think If you were to ask Tom If he would want phone sex and all the things I like he would say hell yes. But those are just words. I mean Who knows, maybe he would like it, but he didn’t make me comfortable enough to try or suggest it. He’s the type of person who would laugh if I said something sexy during sex. Probably because he doesn’t think it’s sexy or he’s uncomfortable. But again, the porn he watches I’m sure they say stuff all the time, and I’m sure he would verbally say he would like it.

There is this thing with some men... they chase and chase and chase and when they catch what they have been chasing they don’t know what to do with it. My point is, he talks a big game On what he says he likes or says he would hypothetically like. And then you give him the go and it’s a deer in the headlights.
 

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I think I understand what the OP is saying.

I'm more submissive (passive, if you wish). On another thread, someone used the description "Rag Doll" which is probably pretty close to me. But I've always been up for just about anything. I like the guy to be in charge of me and by (my) definition, you go with it when someone else is in charge.

Anyway, what resonates with me in this post is how you talk about the "disgusting perverts". Many of the guys I was with were like this. Just wanted to do more and more and have me do more and more. Go right to the limits and then push them. It's like they take you where you never thought you'd go and certainly never WANT to go. But you do.

I know most of these guys were just users and doing it to satisfy their own kinks or whatever but regardless of that, it makes you feel wanted. Like they get so wrapped up in having sex with you.

The last thing you said is probably the most interesting. You feeling that Tom was doing things to please you while the other two (kinkier ones) just did it to enjoy themselves. I TOTALLY get that. It is SO much hotter when guys appear to be doing things to please themselves. I once had sex with a guy who, before he went down on me, said "I'm going to make you feel so good". Ugghh. Noooooooo. That was kind of a turn off for me. I had to pretend that I didn't hear that but you can't unhear it LOL. I suspect that a lot of women would say that they are not like this but who knows maybe there are a lot of us like me and the OP. But if you do meet one of us, I guess the lesson is to just think of yourself and that will take us where we want to be. For me, the best sex partner is one who knows what he wants and goes for it. Not one that is focused on my needs. Yeah, that sounds counter-intuitive but hey, maybe I'm weird. If it sounds too weird, just think about where it intersects. There are BAD partners who only think of themselves but for me the BEST partners only think of themselves. Just "ignoring" my needs is certainly not all it takes. Exactly as the OP says, when they are genuinely getting freaky without it feeling like they are just doing things for you, it feels like they are sooo into having sex with YOU. So just go for it and don't worry about me. If you're really into what you're doing, it will be amazing for me.
 

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I think I understand what the OP is saying.



I'm more submissive (passive, if you wish). On another thread, someone used the description "Rag Doll" which is probably pretty close to me. But I've always been up for just about anything. I like the guy to be in charge of me and by (my) definition, you go with it when someone else is in charge.



Anyway, what resonates with me in this post is how you talk about the "disgusting perverts". Many of the guys I was with were like this. Just wanted to do more and more and have me do more and more. Go right to the limits and then push them. It's like they take you where you never thought you'd go and certainly never WANT to go. But you do.



I know most of these guys were just users and doing it to satisfy their own kinks or whatever but regardless of that, it makes you feel wanted. Like they get so wrapped up in having sex with you.



The last thing you said is probably the most interesting. You feeling that Tom was doing things to please you while the other two (kinkier ones) just did it to enjoy themselves. I TOTALLY get that. It is SO much hotter when guys appear to be doing things to please themselves. I once had sex with a guy who, before he went down on me, said "I'm going to make you feel so good". Ugghh. Noooooooo. That was kind of a turn off for me. I had to pretend that I didn't hear that but you can't unhear it LOL. I suspect that a lot of women would say that they are not like this but who knows maybe there are a lot of us like me and the OP. But if you do meet one of us, I guess the lesson is to just think of yourself and that will take us where we want to be. For me, the best sex partner is one who knows what he wants and goes for it. Not one that is focused on my needs. Yeah, that sounds counter-intuitive but hey, maybe I'm weird. If it sounds too weird, just think about where it intersects. There are BAD partners who only think of themselves but for me the BEST partners only think of themselves. Just "ignoring" my needs is certainly not all it takes. Exactly as the OP says, when they are genuinely getting freaky without it feeling like they are just doing things for you, it feels like they are sooo into having sex with YOU. So just go for it and don't worry about me. If you're really into what you're doing, it will be amazing for me.


In my opinion your “kink” is to see your partner being pleased. I think that’s awesome. There is nothing better in the world than seeing your partner having pleasure from you. And I’m sure you know that he probably would love nothing more than for you to be pleased as well.


I’m glad you mentioned the disgusting pervert part and men just using women to push their limits. This never occurred to me because I have such a strong personality (even though I enjoy being submissive), I have very hard boundaries that I won’t cross. It’s just like when mark told me to finger my butt... ah hell no. Next.

I can see how things can go bad. But I think it’s important not to be a push over, to know your boundaries, to be confident enough to say stop or no, and to advocate for yourself.

People, especially women need to be a active participant in their sex life and In their life In general. There was a feminist book called yes means yes. I loved it bc we always talk about no means no, but women need to be active participants because by not speaking up, we are giving mixed signals. Oh I didn’t really want to do that, but I wanted to make him happy or whatever is bull crap. And no man I wants to do something that their wife doesn’t want to be done to her, so speak up women! Men aren’t mind readers. And when we talk about pushing the boundary... I’m a very black and white thinker so I don’t really get that. I see a boundary as a line. Period. Also, just because I do certain things doesn’t mean I always want to do them. If I don’t feel like doing something I won’t do it.
 

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Thanks for your perspective @Girl_power

I agree with your points and I also know that every couple dynamic is slightly unique with things that might come easier with different partners.

Different chemistry leads to becoming comfortable with different sex for different partners.

I honestly don't care what a woman has done for a previous partner, even if she loved it, as long as we are both having fun and fulfillment with each other in our own dynamic.
 

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@Girl_power, your post completely makes sense, but I think it is also exactly what some me fear: that they are mediocre lovers, not the hot men you had before.

I've got no suggestions, and your honestly is great, but I assume you can also tell how it would feel to the last guy. As a highly sexual person, its difficult to imagine not being very sexual and having no way to fix that.

(btw, while I have a wide range of issues, this is not one of mine).
 

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Why be with someone then that you aren’t attracted to?
For the answer to that question ask the 1000's of men and women married to people they aren't sexually attracted to. Usually, the answer is something along the lines of "But s/he's perfect in every other way!" or "We love each other and are so compatible on every other level!"

I didn't say wasn't attracted, I said more attracted. Distinct difference. For me, at least, sexual attraction isn't a simple yes-no. There are levels of attraction from neutral to highly attracted and everything in between. With men I am highly attracted to I will naturally be more into the sex and will desire all the naughty things. With someone I am, say, moderately attracted to I am naturally going to be less fired up and be less interested in going beyond vanilla.
 

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It makes sense that people will be much more open/comfortable in situations where there is less insecurity. The higher the level of compatibility, the less unknowns, the higher the feelings of security, the freer we feel we can be ourselves and not fail (however we define that).

Tom was not sexually compatible to you so there were lots of unknowns and lots of insecurity. I don't think there is anything Tom could have done to fix this.

Personally, I think sexual compatibility is either there or it's not. This is one of those things that can't be taught.
 

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Why be with someone then that you aren’t attracted to?
There are levels.

She might have been with a really hot lover but it didn't work out for whatever reason outside of the bedroom.

She moves on and finds a man she is attracted to but he isn't at the hot level of her previous lover. It might be difficult to find someone that hot again or at least someone she could make a life with.

I'm also playing devil's advocate here because I know people can get hotter even if they might not be the superstars that others are naturally.

If two people want it to get good in the sack, it will get good.

There are some people that are simply molten but not necessarily a good long term mate.
 

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Girl, thanks for posting your thoughts. I appreciate the sexual insight from the female point of view. Especially since it’s been over a decade since I last dated. I have some preferences, but matching bra and panties is not one of them. I lol reading that!
 

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I think this is a great example of the different perspectives not understanding what the other is actually saying. As insightful as this is, this is not really an explanation for the actual "you did it for him, but not for me" situation.

A closer analog would be if Tom had said he wouldn't do it for you because he hated oral, or that he wasn't really into oral, and didn't like it with his ex wife, or you just picked up on him not being really into it, and so you take it off the table because you were understanding and didn't want him to be doing something he didn't really enjoy specifically and exclusively for your pleasure. And then some time later, you find out that not only did he love it with his ex, and did it all the time, and actively and enthusiastically pursued oral on her, and by all accounts he was amazing at it, her vagina was better than unicorns and puppies.

Perhaps a better way to frame the question, more accurate to what is actually being asked is "what do their other lovers have that I don't?"
 
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