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Again, this is all about communication. If the two people AGREE on what is to be done, then the two can TALK about what's getting done. That's why I always push for the poster board and an agreement, up front. In fact, I even suggest using a 'weighted' list; for example, making breakfast takes 15 minutes; mowing the lawn may take an hour. So mowing counts as four 15-minute-segment chores each week.
So everyone is big on communicating. But talking is about the least effective form of communication out there. ACTIONS communicate meaning WAY better than talking. My two cents.
 

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Again, this is all about communication. If the two people AGREE on what is to be done, then the two can TALK about what's getting done. That's why I always push for the poster board and an agreement, up front. In fact, I even suggest using a 'weighted' list; for example, making breakfast takes 15 minutes; mowing the lawn may take an hour. So mowing counts as four 15-minute-segment chores each week.
Haha, this got me thinking about having something like the good ole science project board with all the household work listed out!

 

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Haha, this got me thinking about having something like the good ole science project board with all the household work listed out!
To be entirely fair, some women who are pissy (oh, like I was) about their husband's contribution need to understand (like I didn't) that you can want your spouse TO do something or you can want HOW s/he does something but not both. You don't get to say that you need more housework done AND require his or her standards to be the same as yours.
 

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To be entirely fair, some women who are pissy (oh, like I was) about their husband's contribution need to understand (like I didn't) that you can want your spouse TO do something or you can want HOW s/he does something but not both. You don't get to say that you need more housework done AND require his or her standards to be the same as yours.
This is my W to a tee. Wish she would learn this.
 

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To be entirely fair, some women who are pissy (oh, like I was) about their husband's contribution need to understand (like I didn't) that you can want your spouse TO do something or you can want HOW s/he does something but not both. You don't get to say that you need more housework done AND require his or her standards to be the same as yours.
Agreed, that is one question I would always have. Is he/she not doing something or is he/she not doing something to your standards. Now granted, some standards can actually be legit, but hopefully there is an understanding about the difference.
 

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Agreed, that is one question I would always have. Is he/she not doing something or is he/she not doing something to your standards. Now granted, some standards can actually be legit, but hopefully there is an understanding about the difference.
It has more to do with working together as a team. When people are holding up their own "standards" and insisting on remaining pissy, they are not working as a team.
 

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Again, this is all about communication. If the two people AGREE on what is to be done, then the two can TALK about what's getting done. That's why I always push for the poster board and an agreement, up front. In fact, I even suggest using a 'weighted' list; for example, making breakfast takes 15 minutes; mowing the lawn may take an hour. So mowing counts as four 15-minute-segment chores each week.
Consider the environmental aspects - an hour sorting laundry in 74F indoors vs an hour mowing the yard at 90F...

Scheduling chores is like scheduling sex in my view. Works for some, but it's not viable for others.

The quality standards part is the main time waster. If you haven't spent a weekend pressure washing every algae molecule out of a stone patio or removing every blade of weed from the grass you can't appreciate the meaning of "good enough"...
 

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So everyone is big on communicating. But talking is about the least effective form of communication out there. ACTIONS communicate meaning WAY better than talking. My two cents.
See, when I learned about Authoritative Parenting, which I had used to raise my DD26 without even realizing it, it all clicked for me. Because it works with everyone (without a mental illness).
The first step is communication and, with adults, agreement (kids don't have a say in mom's rules, lol). The second step is agreement about, or at least discussion about, what happens when that agreement/compromise isn't held up. The third step is unemotional logical action to counteract the lack of standing up to the agreement. To me, the unemotional part is the key. It keeps things safe for both parties.

That's why I push so hard now for boundaries/consequences. They are what YOU have and what YOU do, to protect yourself.
 

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Consider the environmental aspects - an hour sorting laundry in 74F indoors vs an hour mowing the yard at 90F...
Could have taught those children of yours one to mow the lawn and one to fold the laundry and avoided the whole issue. ;)

The quality standards part is the main time waster. If you haven't spent a weekend pressure washing every algae molecule out of a stone patio or removing every blade of weed from the grass you can't appreciate the meaning of "good enough"...
Whose choice was this and what was the "punishment" for not complying to this level of standard? Cause I would have "noped" all over that.
 

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Consider the environmental aspects - an hour sorting laundry in 74F indoors vs an hour mowing the yard at 90F...

Scheduling chores is like scheduling sex in my view. Works for some, but it's not viable for others.

The quality standards part is the main time waster. If you haven't spent a weekend pressure washing every algae molecule out of a stone patio or removing every blade of weed from the grass you can't appreciate the meaning of "good enough"...
meh, do what we do: mow at 7:30 at night when it's cooled off.

And I didn't say to get down into the weeds about WHEN chores would be done. I said that you each agree to be responsible for your chores and an agreed-upon counteraction if it doesn't happen.

For example, if the wife and husband work, and the wife agrees that she will vacuum, but she never does, it behooves the husband to take $50 out of the community fund (which she will now not have access to) and pay someone else to vacuum. She gripes? *shrug* You didn't carry out what you agreed to do - see, you signed the chart right here - and it's gotta get done, and I'm not going to take on a chore you agreed to do since I'm already doing mine, so the money to get it done is coming out of your play money. You want to keep the money? There's the vacuum.
 

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See, when I learned about Authoritative Parenting, which I had used to raise my DD26 without even realizing it, it all clicked for me. Because it works with everyone (without a mental illness).
The first step is communication and, with adults, agreement (kids don't have a say in mom's rules, lol).
I don't agree with this. Agreement with my husband would have looked like him just completely ignoring me, retaining his lack of motivation to SEE since there were no personally compelling reasons to see. It was MY boundary. No agreement necessary. This is how it is going to be.




The second step is agreement about, or at least discussion about, what happens when that agreement/compromise isn't held up.
Discussion. I would call it more like notification!

The third step is unemotional logical action to counteract the lack of standing up to the agreement.
I agree with unemotional.
 

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To be entirely fair, some women who are pissy (oh, like I was) about their husband's contribution need to understand (like I didn't) that you can want your spouse TO do something or you can want HOW s/he does something but not both. You don't get to say that you need more housework done AND require his or her standards to be the same as yours.
I used to mow our lawn. My H would often come up behind me and remow areas that weren't 'good enough' - straight lines, etc. I told him to stop doing it, but he couldn't help himself. The last time I mowed, I caught him going back over my mowing, so I just stood there and watched. He finally came over and I said 'you just bought yourself a new chore' and I went inside. Haven't mowed since.
 

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I used to mow our lawn. My H would often come up behind me and remow areas that weren't 'good enough' - straight lines, etc. I told him to stop doing it, but he couldn't help himself. The last time I mowed, I caught him going back over my mowing, so I just stood there and watched. He finally came over and I said 'you just bought yourself a new chore' and I went inside. Haven't mowed since.
You guys sound like you really hate each other. Can't you file for bankruptcy and just move on?
 

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I think all this talk about chores is just creating a fake straw man to argue against. I'm sure there are lazy men who don't work and treat their wives like maids who do no housework, throw laundry on the floor, leave sandwiches on the coffee table, etc. However, they are the minority. To base all these discussions on the equality of housework is a waste of time.

In general, if a man stayed home and did 100% of the housework, yardwork and childcare, he would still want sex. The desire for sex is unaffected by those external things.

There are many threads here from good men who have tried to improve sex by doing more and more of the housework and childcare, making more money, and taking stress away from their wives. In most cases, that doesn't really improve the situation. She may be more willing to go along with some duty sex, but it doesn't seem to be the case that she starts actually desiring sex more.

One thing that women are fooling themselves about is by justifying not having sex. Regardless of the reason, if you're not having sex at least 3-4x per month, your marriage is in trouble. There's not enough glue to hold it together without sex. People can slog it through for decades, but without regular sex, it won't be a happy marriage. So whatever justification you have for not having sex (whether you're a man or woman), it's poisoning the marriage. If you're the one who's limiting the sex, you better be trying to make it up in other areas of the relationship if you want the relationship to last.
 

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Could have taught those children of yours one to mow the lawn and one to fold the laundry and avoided the whole issue. ;)

Whose choice was this and what was the "punishment" for not complying to this level of standard? Cause I would have "noped" all over that.
The kids earned nearly $200k between them in academic merit scholarships, not a bad rate of return compared to doing chores.

No punishment, just endless B!tching every time a spec of algae or weed is found.

Today wifey found a few minor scratches on the kitchen counter wood trim and immediately blamed the cat. I explained it's not the cat (I repaired cat scratches in drywall and know what they look like). No luck. So we will spend $1k to repair normal wear and tear damage after 15 years living there "because of the cat".

That's the kind of issue I'm divorcing about, incidentally. her magical thinking and inability to think rationally :)
 

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The kids earned nearly $200k between them in academic merit scholarships, not a bad rate of return compared to doing chores.
See when you post memes about how you want to be considered just an average American, these are the kinds of things that make that difficult. Anytime it's suggested that your fully adult children do something for themselves we have to have amounts of money casually thrown out. To prove how much they are "worth" or something, I don't know.

Yes, we all wish we could have gotten hundreds of thousands of dollars of merit scholarships to attend Ivy league. Because 15 minutes of folding the laundry evidently would be just way too hard for them. Which I honestly have a hard time believing. A student in my school got a full ride to Yale last year - PS, she also had a job and did chores. ;) So ...

If you were saving that much money not putting your children into college, why not hire a groundskeeper?

So we will spend $1k to repair normal wear and tear damage after 15 years living there "because of the cat".
Why? Hope about just say no? If you are divorcing her anyway, at this point what is her b!tching going to do to you?
 

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My kids' biggest achievement is growing up normal in a marital maelstrom... I did not want them to do chores, it's that simple. To me it's a waste of time - same as part time summer work. It's not pride or worth, rather, it's a matter of allocation of resources (time and energy) to where it will do the most good.

The older learned cooking and baking off YouTube, and is quite good at it. The younger hopefully will learn.

No money for a housekeeper incidentally - I'm saving for med school tuition beginning next fall :).
 

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I don't. Not at the expense of the basic skills of being a human.
Let's just say I did my share of chores growing up poor in a village and hated it. I don't think my humanity suffered any because I could not cook a soufle... People adapt. It's a lot easier to teach a kid how to cook a decent meal than to teach them calculus.

Priorities...
 

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You know there are days where I think.."ffs why do I do everything around here". I admit that.
Someone at work the other day was complaining about how her husband doesn't lift one finger to help.

She said city you must agree and I said I know what you mean. But that got me thinking. What does my H actually do. He might not do the standard housework that needs to be done but in reality he does a hell of a a lot. Who drops the kids off at daycare/school. Who cooks most of the meals. Who does the grocery shopping (Ick). Who does the outside work. Who runs the kids to all sports etc. All H.
Maybe we need redefine what work is? Yes I do the laundry, housework and general chores and yes we both work outside of the home. But if I sit down and think about it, H contributes just as much as me but in different ways.

I don't know...yes there are some men out there that do nothing. As there are women out there that do nothing as well and the husband picks up the slack. But when you complain about not doing anything are they doing other things that isn't in the general definition of "true housework".
Of course anyone who feels upset because they think that they are over burdened in running a household needs to step back and make sure that they are not just being pissy. They need to took at the entire picture and make sure that they are not just feeling sorry for themselves. And if they do honestly find an inequity, they need to address it with their spouse. Hopefully there is good communication in the marriage and their spouse will work with them to fix it.

But... the situation that I was talking about is the one in which there is truly an inequity.. are real and large inequity and where all attempted communication with the spouse who is doing little to nothing will not work to fix it.

But it seems that almost every response to my posts has been to give a list of scenarios to prove that such inequities do not exist in marriage and thus a woman is just using it as an excuse for anger, resentment and maybe not wanting sex with a husband who literally does nothing.

Yes there have been some posters who get it. But there have also been more who keep pushing the idea that it's all in the woman's head and being used to control/manipulate her husband. (yes that happens somethings. Often, however, there is a real problem.)
 
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