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Women are likely to have this opinion because, progressive or not, odds are good that if you go into any house in America right now, the woman will be the one who sweeps, vacuums, and dusts; who washes and hangs up and puts away laundry; who picks up trash and dirty dishes; makes lunches for the kids, takes kids to the doctor and calls in sick when the kids can't go to school; and fills the dishwasher, even if both spouses work full time.
I need to be the first to say that this can happen. But does not always happen. Luckily my husband is not like that at all... anymore.

It has nothing to do with being a progressive woman and everything to do with it being in our DNA to nest and need a decent home to raise our kids in;
I missed that gene! But really, everyone in this family helps maintain it. Kids do as much as we do. In the summer, way more.

if he's not going to do what he says he will do (or if he never considers doing any of it in the first place), the woman will step in and make sure the home/people are cared for. And I think men more often than not subconsciously know this (being raised by a woman) and act accordingly. I truly think most men truly aren't aware of how much work goes into keeping a house going because, well, they never had to. Some woman was always there doing it. And when he was a bachelor, he likely cleaned once a month and was happy about it.

But women usually don't go into a marriage nowadays expecting to be this guy's replacement mother, after all the wooing and dating and promises, and she finds herself working full time and then coming home and STILL having to work every day...it gets old.

Does he chop wood once a month? Maybe. Mow once a week? Sure. Change oil twice a year? Sure. Carry a heavy chair over there? Absolutely.

But day in and day out, having to be the one who picks up the dirty dishes, loads the dishwasher, puts away the dishes, usually shops for and cooks the meals, bathes the baby, and everything else I mentioned above, BEFORE she can go to bed, while he's been on his computer, playing with the kids, watching tv, or playing video games, day in and day out...you can see how a woman's view can become skewed.

I used to tell my husband 'if you want to get so much sex, why don't you try to lesson my load a little bit so I'm not working 9 hours and then coming home and working 5 more? Maybe then I wouldn't be too tired for it.' So I can always tell now, when he wants some, he'll actually pick up his dirty glass and walk three steps and dump it on the counter. See? I helped. lol
Your husband is an *******. He is not worth comparing anyone else to.
 

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IDK, of the ten or so closest friends we have, I can name only ONE of those guys who does any real housework. And that's because his wife has a disease and doesn't get out of bed much. We talk about it and they pretty much to a man sheepishly agree that they let their wives take care of it. "I mow!" they're most likely to say.

My H is a product of his parents. His mom was living in his house when I moved in at 20. When she moved out three years later, the house fell apart. I had no idea she had been going around behind him picking up everything he dropped. And then I was too weak to take a stand. *shrug*
 

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You don't have women in non-teaching and nursing jobs? You don't have male teachers and nurses? That is just weird.
OK, here's Hannah Rosin (feminist) on Slate:

Gender pay gap: The familiar line that ?women make 77 cents to every man?s dollar? simply isn?t accurate.

Highlight:

"Is it that women are choosing lower-paying professions or that our country values women’s professions less? And why do women work fewer hours? Is this all discrimination or, as economist Claudia Goldin likes to say, also a result of “rational choices” women make about how they want to conduct their lives."

Also, check out the Freakonomics link.

Women may well be choosing lesser paying jobs because they prioritize family over work and because they require less hours.

If you choose lower stress jobs and jobs that require fewer hours, it might make sense that you end up doing 3.22 more hours per week doing housework.

What I find weird is that people find it so easy to ignore pretty obvious things like this.

If your husband is an entitled prince who doesn't pull his weight around the house, tell him "I have no intention of staying in a marriage where......."
 

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I was in a bank today, and you know how banks are shrinking these days, cutting corners, etc. So I'm sitting in this bank, and I realize that, of the 8 employees, every single one was a black female. And my first thought was of course they are; the bank cut what it pays, cut their hours, and black women really get the short end of the stick when it comes to opportunities, so they're willing to accept $2 less an hour and no benefits; the rest of the people probably turned the jobs down. And who wins? The bank's shareholders.
 

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I'm not a woman, so it's about as useless as what you posted here without evidence, context, and clarification.
Let me be clear. My posts on the topic started as a reply to some men on this thread and the RP thread that men get less sex when they do housework. I was making the point that as a blanket statement it's nonsense. Because sometimes, more housework and helping around the house (which includes yard work, mowing, etc) is exactly what is needed.

But what happened, is what often happens, the more people twist what is said, the more I (and others) tried to make our point... that in some marriages the woman is not just a cold b!tch, there are martial problems leading to low or no sex and it has to be addressed.

Well, I made the mistake of trying to explain over and over in many different ways. I give up. I made my point. If you and others did not get it, then I don't know what to say.

I'm not going to search for the hundreds of times on TAM where I have read men telling other men who want more sex to not listen to their wife, to not try to find out why she does not want sex... to just alpha up and leave her. For one thing the search function on TAM is broken and the admins don't seem to care to look into fixing it.

I'm done on this thread. YOu all win, women are just cold b!tches who don't want sex.
 

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Not wanting sex with someone who is treating you poorly? Totally understandable.



Not wanting sex at all with anyone and not having any type of sexual desire at all? Not very understandable.



What's often confusing is how a woman's sex drive will go completely to zero. Not just for her H, who she perceives (rightly or wrongly) as not worthy, but no sexual desire at all. It is extremely rare for a man to not have any sexual desire. He may not want sex with his W, but he will still have the urge and will satisfy it in some way. But often for women, there just is no urge at all.



Even in your example, it's not clear why a woman in that scenario would have no sexual desire. A man will generally have sexual urges regardless of what's going on in his life or how his partner is treating him. But we commonly see that a woman's desire can go to zero across the board because of a variety of external factors.



I think as for the topic of this thread, I think often W start viewing their nice, honest, hardworking H more as a brother than a lover. Once that switch gets flipped that he's a brother, it's not surprising that she doesn't feel sexual towards him. People generally aren't attracted towards their siblings regardless of how attractive or desirable they are. Something in our heads makes us not desire siblings. Something similar happens in W's heads to make them feel like having sex with their H is like doing it with their brother.


You know what there just seems to be too much generalisation about this topic. ' using such words as ' extremely rare, generally ' you and others actually don't know , I think it's better to just talk about your own feelings and experience thus not assume a majority of the population feel the exact way, unless it's backed up by facts such as statistics, otherwise it's just an assumption. I've seen this over and over again.


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I haven't seen anyone say that. Of course, I may have missed it...
According to a lot of the posters on this thread, women (all women) use sex as a power play.
 

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Let me be clear. My posts on the topic started as a reply to some men on this thread and the RP thread that men get less sex when they do housework. I was making the point that as a blanket statement it's nonsense. Because sometimes, more housework and helping around the house (which includes yard work, mowing, etc) is exactly what is needed.



But what happened, is what often happens, the more people twist what is said, the more I (and others) tried to make our point... that in some marriages the woman is not just a cold b!tch, there are martial problems leading to low or no sex and it has to be addressed.



Well, I made the mistake of trying to explain over and over in many different ways. I give up. I made my point. If you and others did not get it, then I don't know what to say.



I'm not going to search for the hundreds of times on TAM where I have read men telling other men who want more sex to not listen to their wife, to not try to find out why she does not want sex... to just alpha up and leave her. For one thing the search function on TAM is broken and the admins don't seem to care to look into fixing it.



I'm done on this thread. YOu all win, women are just cold b!tches who don't want sex.


I have to say I agree with ele here, I have seen posts by men that advice to leave their wife instead of listening to their wives because of not doing it enough. That's not to say that ALL men think and agree with this , just stating that I have also read these posts multiple times. It's stating that this line of thought exists, thus NOT assuming that ALL men do, which I think is where the frustration may come from within this thread. I also don't agree with this line of thought either.


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IMO there is a big difference between saying "some" and "many", that is all I am trying to draw a distinction from.
Why is making a statement about the behavior of "some" or "many" always met with #notallmen, but men on TAM feel free to make all kinds of statements implying that it applies unilaterally to all or most women and if women in anyway speak out about it we are told we are "having a fit."
 

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Why is making a statement about the behavior of "some" or "many" always met with #notallmen, but men on TAM feel free to make all kinds of statements implying that it applies unilaterally to all or most women and if women in anyway speak out about it we are told we are "having a fit."


Yeah in a perfect TAM it shouldn't be done by either gender. I also have been accused by a man of having a ' lack of empathy' because I had a very different and I think positive perspective other than the 'leave your wife, if she's not putting out' opinion.


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Why is making a statement about the behavior of "some" or "many" always met with #notallmen, but men on TAM feel free to make all kinds of statements implying that it applies unilaterally to all or most women and if women in anyway speak out about it we are told we are "having a fit."
That's ok. I made the "mistake" of saying I know some things that not all men do, and I was met with the opposite reaction... from some men. But, that was one of those notoriously heated discussions. If you say something against the "norm", it gets met with resistance.

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Let me be clear. My posts on the topic started as a reply to some men on this thread and the RP thread that men get less sex when they do housework. I was making the point that as a blanket statement it's nonsense. Because sometimes, more housework and helping around the house (which includes yard work, mowing, etc) is exactly what is needed.
That's exactly what I thought happened. You and others brought over anger from the other thread where you didn't feel like you made you point. You found something I posted you didn't really agree with, and tried to get even with me for someone elses comments.

Make that point about the blanket statement over there in the RP thread. I stayed away from it.

More housework, which you say here, but have not proven to be included in that study you selected and posted the results for, may or may not help with what need?



But what happened, is what often happens, the more people twist what is said, the more I (and others) tried to make our point... that in some marriages the woman is not just a cold b!tch, there are martial problems leading to low or no sex and it has to be addressed.
Ele, I didn't say anyone was "just a cold b!tch". In fact, I am on your side to some extent. I won't lie. I don't agree with everything. That's my right. Isn't it?

I posted my story about problems in my second marriage with sex. If you have questions or concerns relating to what I posted, I'd be glad to try to answer them.

I actually agree that chores should be shared. Read my post about my own second marriage. I think that would explain my position of the past, before I ever knew TAM existed.

I didn't know about TAM until, a month or so before I came here. I heard someone talking about it with another person. After thinking a while and realizing I had no clue what to do and desperately needed help, I decided to give this place a try.

I'm not disappointed. I've learned plenty, even from this exchange with you and all the other angry women here.

Well, I made the mistake of trying to explain over and over in many different ways. I give up. I made my point. If you and others did not get it, then I don't know what to say.
I'll ask this again. Please show me, by quoting my post that says to you that I don't get what you are saying.

I think you are projecting. I think you are misunderstanding. I think you are angry and trying to find an easy target. I've been that so far. I guess I stepped right in it by not following that RP thread?

I can't figure out what I've posted that makes you believe I do not get what you are saying?



I'm not going to search for the hundreds of times on TAM where I have read men telling other men who want more sex to not listen to their wife, to not try to find out why she does not want sex... to just alpha up and leave her.
This is not what you claimed in the last few posts in this thread. This is coming from inside you, not me.

I asked you to post just six. You won't even post one. So, if there weren't any to access easily from the RP thread that has caused you to be so vitriolic, I guess I will not be able to believe you.

You claimed these things about men, not me. Giving up is not like you. I think you can't back your words up with facts, and you realize it.


For one thing the search function on TAM is broken and the admins don't seem to care to look into fixing it.
You claimed much of this anger came from the RP thread. You said men over there were saying these things. You can't find those without a search function?



I'm done on this thread. YOu all win, women are just cold b!tches who don't want sex.

This is within you. It is a belief that men are at fault for hating women because they have no control over them. Most men don't want to control their wives. It's too difficult. It has no rewards. It's looney and would take too much effort.

Why would these lazy men, as you seem to think they are, put out that kind of effort? It doesn't make sense.

You are way too intelligent for this, Ele. You can give your reasons with posts you think back them. It isn't shameful to be wrong. I'm wrong more times than right. I've made posts this very day that I wonder about.

What the hell? Do you think you have to be perfect? I'll still like you, and respect you, whatever you decide. I won't be walked on, though.

I hope you change your mind. It's been good sparring with you.
 

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That's ok. I made the "mistake" of saying I know some things that not all men do, and I was met with the opposite reaction... from some men. But, that was one of those notoriously heated discussions. If you say something against the "norm", it gets met with resistance.

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Yeah but I also think that if more care was taken in how an opinion is written it may actually avoid this. It is a statement, that I have read posts that use words that assume' a general population feels the same they do . ' In fact , I think one should just use ' I feel' and their own experiences instead. Using assumptive language ends up offending others that don't agree with it.


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According to a lot of the posters on this thread, women (all women) use sex as a power play.

I haven't seen anyone say that. Of course, I may have missed it...
Below are only a few of the posts from this thread in which this was said. Most if not all of these were liked by other male posters. And these were taken from the start of the thread, before it started to spiral to even worse.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/346146-why-do-married-women-eventually-become-repulsed-their-husbands-touch.html#post16322930
I think they do that to get their way, probably thinking if they take away sex from the marriage then you will do what ever they say. My wife does this to, although she's the one who gained all the weight and I should be repulsed by her touch. I'm used to being married to a refuser, I don't want anything from her anyway.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/346146-why-do-married-women-eventually-become-repulsed-their-husbands-touch-5.html#post16332634
This seems to be the right answer. A lot of women realize that the 'sex' chip is in their hands and men are weaker on this. Once their quota of making babies is complete, then the urge for sex is much reduced. For men, this is not the case, but most men find it hard to cheat.

The women then begin to dole out sex only occasionally and use that as a negotiation device. You take me out, you buy me this or that, and then I might feel like having sex with you.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/346146-why-do-married-women-eventually-become-repulsed-their-husbands-touch-5.html#post16334338
It's amazing how hard it is for men today to get reasonable sex with their own wives. All those hoops to jump through, all those checklists with 100s of items to cross off, all those requirements to fulfill. In all cases it is deemed to be the man's fault that he is not doing something that makes the wife want to have sex.
No wonder so many men are looking to cheat.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/346146-why-do-married-women-eventually-become-repulsed-their-husbands-touch-5.html#post16334722
I agree with your whole post, however, your list has one glaring mistake in it. The absolute #1 thing that attracts women is

MONEY

The one thing that causes the most arguments in a marriage is money. If a guy can supply his wife/girlfriend with an unending supply of money there would be no problems. To get their men to spend money on them or on what they want, they use sex as a means of control.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/346146-why-do-married-women-eventually-become-repulsed-their-husbands-touch-24.html#post16359938
Where this gets tricky, it does to an extent imply that in order for a guy to have sex with his SO he must first do A, B, C, etc... Some guys will see this, and whether or not they feel like they are entering into a covert contract, will do A, B, C and then don't understand when there are no changes in sex. Likewise, this puts the women in control (just using your example here, not necessarily trying to be gender specific) where she can add on as many "requirements" as she wants as long as the guy will dance through hoops for the end goal. So either the guy gets walked all over, just b/c he hopes to have a sexual relationship with the one person he is supposed to have such relationship , the marriage goes sexless, infidelity, divorce, etc...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/346146-why-do-married-women-eventually-become-repulsed-their-husbands-touch-27.html#post16367842
All depends on the state of ones marriage.

I bet a lot of women use sex as a control method because they can. Or in another word, the husband goes along with iat.

It's a teach/learn thing.

Years go by and sex dwindles. The husband gets frustrated and says what's going on. The wife says you don't cook/clean/help with kids.
The husband cooks/cleans/helps with kids and his wife drip feeds him sex once a month. Turns out it's not the lack of help from husband but the lack of respect for the now even more betaized husband.
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All this "emotional needs" and stuff is just nonsense. Women say it but don't mean it and probably laugh behind our backs. What they like is money (as you say) and power in a man. Success. But not an a-hole. Rather, not too much of an ahole that he becomes hard to live with. A small amount is okay.

No women will admit to this!

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/346146-why-do-married-women-eventually-become-repulsed-their-husbands-touch-27.html#post16368170

You said it well, Jerry. But I would not go as far as to call them all betaized men. Rather the women are the ones at fault. What does the man do? Either "rapes" his wife. Or goes and has sex with someone else. You cannot squeeze water our of a faucet which is not connected to a supply line. I really believe that after a woman had all the kids she wants, she loses interest in sex. Maybe nature makes her that way. But men always want sex as long as they are able to physically. That is when we see this situation and women play games by claiming these silly excuses and blaming men again (it's very much in fashion to blame men for everything)

Marriage as it is today hurts men and helps women. When a man is refused sex for weeks together on silly excuses, what can he do? Go watch porn or pleasure himself. After that what? He wants love, romance, sex with a woman. . He cannot just kick out the wife because he has kids with her and he loves his sweet kids. It's not easy. So he tries to do a balancing act by having an affair. That way he can get what he craves and his wife won't give him and he gets to be with his kids.

All the moralists might frown, but this is a real situation, and I personally think that if a wife does what jerry very logically explains above, she deserves it when her husband has an affair. What was she expecting??

I see a lot of frustrated 40+ men in my circle talk about dreamily about some hot chick they saw somewhere or complain about their wives and how grumpy they are all the time. We do not discuss sex life but I am sure that is where it all starts. These wives get so engrossed in their own projects of kids and career and friends that they neglect the husband. Many won't know if he was dead and would find out when the paychecks stopped.
 

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Exactly! Each would have to take care of themselves if alone.


You said many women get married to have someone to help them out. This has nothing to do with being alone?????



I guess many men and women are pretty far apart on things?





Many women often end up with a man/child. I'm not following.

It is still a fact today that women do more housework even when they work outside the house. A quick google will bring up many articles on this.


:circle: :confused:
Confused about what? Many women and men want the same thing, a partner to share life with, what is so confusing. Sadly what many want and what they get are two different things.
 
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