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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If spouses fight, leave the house, and one gets full custody over the other because and I quote "the court to determine custody based solely on what's in the children's best interests, without regard to the parent's gender "

THEN, why cheating is not considered child abuse - some reasons I list below and I'm sure all of you can think of more

1- one spouse taking time out of her/his children to focus on someone else - neglect
2- emotional stress and anxiety that children go through when they see and feel spouses cheating
3- emotional confusion and destruction when kids get introduced to a new partner "this is your stepdad or mom" " or dad or mom bf or gf"

Kids cant express what they feel in words - many shy away from saying how they feel - you might hear " I wish mom and dad live together" these words could summarize their agony and stress.

Spouses excuse or justification - we are better off divorced than together for the kids to be happy.... WRONG
 

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I agree completely with your argument of child abuse. However, parents who fight and cannot get along should NEVER stay together “for the children”.

As a child who grew up with parents who were divorced, as well as someone who watched her best friends parents go thru a divorce, I completely disagree with you. We were much happier with our parents being divorced. We didn’t have to listen to and watch them fight. In my girlfriends case her mother eventually remarried and she saw what a healthy marriage looked like. Unfortunately my mothers remarraige was not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I agree completely with your argument of child abuse. However, parents who fight and cannot get along should NEVER stay together “for the children”.

As a child who grew up with parents who were divorced, as well as someone who watched her best friends parents go thru a divorce, I completely disagree with you. We were much happier with our parents being divorced. We didn’t have to listen to and watch them fight. In my girlfriends case her mother eventually remarried and she saw what a healthy marriage looked like. Unfortunately my mothers remarraige was not.
you are talking from an adult perspective using rational thinking. Kids dont have that, kids think about their emotions and seeing Dad and Mom and a house - all they care about.
Parents should wait it out until kids are old and may be out of the house.

again, separate topic. I was talking about cheating while married should be considered form of child abuse
 

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Let's say it is. Before anything can be done, there needs to be proof, which is a difficult standard. And if it becomes an actionable offense (or even just an accusation), it will definitely be weaponized by one or both parents to gain advantage in divorce or custody. So, it would probably do more harm to the kids than the status quo.
 

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you are talking from an adult perspective using rational thinking. Kids dont have that, kids think about their emotions and seeing Dad and Mom and a house - all they care about.
Parents should wait it out until kids are old and may be out of the house.

again, separate topic. I was talking about cheating while married should be considered form of child abuse
Wait what out? Committing adultery or divorcing an adultress? Not sure what your point is...

As far as child abuse, proving cheating isn't that easy in the first place. It's becomes a he said, she said ****show. I don't know how bringing kids into the mix helps anything. It's preferable that they have both parents in their life if the other is an otherwise good parent (even if they are a ****ty spouse).
 

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The reason most states have gone to no-fault divorce is so the courts don’t have to be moral referees and moral police and don’t have to determine who is the good guy vs the bad the bad guy.

While it’s understandable that the betrayed would want retribution and to be paid restitution, What was happening in actual practice is the finger pointing and blame game was actually causing children more harm and creating more hate and chaos amongst the parents and families involved.

It was less anger and hostility and less expense and less lasting harm to children to simply split custody and marital assets down the middle and have both people sign on the dotted line.

Even in cases where there is actual bona fide child abuse, it is very hard to make a real child abuse claim stick. Kids darn near have to be in the hospital in critical care with solid physical evidence and witness testimony before custodial rights are revoked.

Drug addicts basically have to fail several court ordered drug tests in a row where they are given the dates of the drug tests weeks in advance to clear their systems and STILL flunk before their drug use impacts their custody to any degree.

The courts simply don’t have time and wherewithal to care about what grown ass adults do with their naughty bits.

it’s hard enough investigating and prosecuting real child abuse to mess with pissed off BS’s trying to claim their cheat’n spouse is somehow abusing kids.
 

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Even if you separate the cheating out it’s not like many of these people are fantastic parents anyway. Most people suck at parenting because I think this society is so self-centered and selfish in everything we do.

What concerns me more is that I now know two families where sexual abuse of children occurred because of “blending families”. One from an older step sibling abusing younger step siblings for over a year (at their fathers house), and another from a boyfriend of the mother. Nobody ever wants to discuss the risk to children from this type of thing.
 

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THEN, why cheating is not considered child abuse - some reasons I list below and I'm sure all of you can think of more

1- one spouse taking time out of her/his children to focus on someone else - neglect
2- emotional stress and anxiety that children go through when they see and feel spouses cheating
3- emotional confusion and destruction when kids get introduced to a new partner "this is your stepdad or mom" " or dad or mom bf or gf"
I'll play along.

According to number 3, any parent who divorces or loses their partner to death, and finds a new partner that they subsequently introduce to their kids is a child abuser. As far as 2, everyone knows cheaters naturally keep their kids in the loop and make no attempt to hide the cheating. And as per number 1, any parent who cheats naturally won't spend any time with their children and will neglect them which is considered the same thing as abusing them.

This is a ridiculous thread.
 

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you are talking from an adult perspective using rational thinking. Kids dont have that, kids think about their emotions and seeing Dad and Mom and a house - all they care about.
Parents should wait it out until kids are old and may be out of the house.

again, separate topic. I was talking about cheating while married should be considered form of child abuse
Talking from a child’s perspective, I never wished or wanted my parents in the same house. I was miserable when I was forced to spend time with my father. Luckily he took my brother and I to my grandmothers most of the time when he had visitation, of course that was when he bothered to show up. He never paid child support forcing my mother to work 3 jobs at times and for me to start working at 14. Yes I’m glad he wasn’t around.

From my friends point of view, after her dad was cheating on her mom, she hated all the fighting and was much happier when they moved out.
 

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No matter what evidence is provided…even by those who have been through it for the better you probably will only hold fast to that belief. Under the surface layer it’s just a moral police tool to punish an (ex)spouse.

The court system has long learned that playing moral police is a dead end though the hurt people in the world stick to it like grim death.
 

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The reason most states have gone to no-fault divorce is so the courts don’t have to be moral referees and moral police and don’t have to determine who is the good guy vs the bad the bad guy.

While it’s understandable that the betrayed would want retribution and to be paid restitution, What was happening in actual practice is the finger pointing and blame game was actually causing children more harm and creating more hate and chaos amongst the parents and families involved.
Yes, exactly. It's a disaster. We already have enough allegations of abuse weaponised in divorce settlements to punish the other spouse. We already have enough expansive claims of what constitutes "cheating". People try to use the court system to act out their hurt and anger. That's not what it's for.

If "cheating" was considered in respect of custody, we'd be hearing "my partner shouldn't be allowed to see his children, because he used to look at pornhub".

The court system has long learned that playing moral police is a dead end though the hurt people in the world stick to it like grim death.
And they burn up all their assets in their "grim death" battle to hurt their partner.

And pretty much the same as all the above, applies to marriage counseling too. MC cannot be the moral police.
 

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I'm not sure why you made this thread. Did you want more government control over family? People neglect their children all the time. Some adults have social media friends who they give more quality attention to than their children, or hobbies, or work: the list is endless.

Sure, if a father or a mother chooses to have an affair they are taking time away from their spouse and their children. It's not abuse as much as it is selfish behavior.

Children grow up, things change. "You reap what you sow."
 

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As a child who grew up with parents who were divorced, as well as someone who watched her best friends parents go thru a divorce, I completely disagree with you. We were much happier with our parents being divorced. We didn’t have to listen to and watch them fight. In my girlfriends case her mother eventually remarried and she saw what a healthy marriage looked like. Unfortunately my mothers remarraige was not.
So if you survive getting shot in the head, would you recommend that someone get shot in the head? Way too many children have their lives ruined because of selfish parents. They put their own wants and needs ahead of those of their children and ruin their lives. Mommy and daddy break up the home and the child gets shuffled back and forth, 50% here and 50% there. Then mommy remarries and daddy remarries, they have children that the child now has to compete with for affection; children who get to stay in their homes full time; children who get parents attention full time. That does not make for a happy situation for that child.

The key is that the couple must agree to put their selfishness aside, be civil to one another, not fight, and make a nice home for the sake of the child. Then once the child turns 18, you can separate if you want. People do not give enough thought into the decision to have children. They do it just because they think that's what they are supposed to do or because they just want a child because it will be something like a pet. Having children takes commitment to that child and requires parents to put aside a lot of what they may want. If you can't do that, don't have kids!

People have to have a license to drive a car, to hunt, to fish, to carry a gun, etc. But any two idiots with a set of genitals are allowed to have children.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
the abuse toward the children comes from the fight and stress one put the other spouse through. the entire family becomes traumatized by that event and kids can sense that no matter how much you mask it.

Wouldn't you think introducing kids to an affair partner while spouses still living together is not kids' emotional abuse? I've seen a spouse asking her kids to call her affair partner their stepdad before she even moves out of her husband's.

I'm not referring to a spouse passing away and then introducing them to someone else. I meant by the post making them go through the stress and emotion of someone's decision to stray and all of the sudden bringing a new partner.

More government control? we already do have government control when one spouse ends up getting kicked out of the house paying alimony for a spouse who replaced him overnight.

the current government control over family in many cases is one-sided - takes the mother's side.

or imagine a housewife who stayed by her husband all these years then all of a sudden he introduces a stepmom? do you think the mother and kids will ever forget
 

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Infidelity, mixed in with divorce makes things worse. It breeds anger and resentment in the betrayed who was blindsided and robbed of time. It teaches the kids that lying and betrayal are acceptable.
As pointed out, the fact that other issues, like fighting etc also hurt the kids in no way negates cheating as being injurious.
 

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the abuse toward the children comes from the fight and stress one put the other spouse through. the entire family becomes traumatized by that event and kids can sense that no matter how much you mask it.

Wouldn't you think introducing kids to an affair partner while spouses still living together is not kids' emotional abuse? I've seen a spouse asking her kids to call her affair partner their stepdad before she even moves out of her husband's.

I'm not referring to a spouse passing away and then introducing them to someone else. I meant by the post making them go through the stress and emotion of someone's decision to stray and all of the sudden bringing a new partner.

More government control? we already do have government control when one spouse ends up getting kicked out of the house paying alimony for a spouse who replaced him overnight.

the current government control over family in many cases is one-sided - takes the mother's side.

or imagine a housewife who stayed by her husband all these years then all of a sudden he introduces a stepmom? do you think the mother and kids will ever forget
I'm trying to figure out your POV. Right now, we have a corrupt government who is looking to get rid of the middle class. So, we are on our own.

Are you angry about how you were treated?
 
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