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When to say enough is enough?

7515 Views 80 Replies 39 Participants Last post by  ABHale
I need advice. My wife and I have been married for almost 13 years and have been together for over 15. We have two young daughters: 3 and 8. Two years ago she made a career change from nursing to real estate. She’s very good at it and has had great success. She’s finally happy in a job and I’ve been very proud of her.

A couple of months ago I caught her having an affair with another agent. It’s not as bad as you think, I won’t go into details about why I believe her, but sex was not involved. What happened is she went on a work retreat to Florida, got drunk one night and kissed this man. I’m human too, and I understand that mistakes can be made in a moment of vulnerability/lack of judgment, but what hurts the most is once she returned from this trip she met up with this man in secret on two other occasions where kissing was again involved. I found out because I always check her location before I call her, because I don’t want to bother here while she’s at a showing or while she’s driving, but this time she was parked in a very odd place. Anyways, it all came to light after that.

The confusing part is that this man is much older than us, he’s not very attractive and really doesn’t have much to offer. She told me that she basically fell in love with him for a lack of better words. We decided to try to work things out. I didn’t want her to quit her job because she finally has something she loves doing, but I made it very clear that she cannot communicate with this man unless it was absolutely essential to business. She agreed, but on multiple occasions thereafter either saw or spoke to him for trivial things. Like doing her a favor to go put up a for sale sign at one of her listings and referring a buyer of one of her properties to him. So a total of four times I had to reiterate what “essential to business” means and finally I had to practically beg her to cut this man from our lives. Which she agreed to. Since then she has had little to no contact with him and only in a manner that fits our agreement.

What I’m really struggling with is we had a great marriage. She agrees. She says I’m the best husband. We get along great, never fight, we have great sex, we’re perfectly compatible. So how do we go about “fixing” something that was never broken? I told her the other night that im committed to resolution, but what are we trying to resolve?

I’ve come to realize, at least believe, that she has some kind of deeply seeded issues that obviously strongly influence her actions. So how am I supposed to accept what she’s telling me. She says it was the biggest mistake of her life and that she swears that it will never happen again. I believe what she says is genuine, the trouble is that it doesn’t matter if she is sincere in saying that, because if you had asked her six months ago she would have said the same, yet here we are.

A backstory to our relationship for clarity. We dated for about a year in high school. Our relationship was pretty much over by this time, but she slept with another man. I don’t hold that against her because we were both dumb kids. My mother was a schizophrenic drug addict. And when I didn’t have a place to live, her parents offered a room to me. I was probably 19 at this point. She married a man who was in the Navy and lived in Virginia so she wasn’t in the picture at this point in time. I was living with her parents for probably 8 months before she left her husband and came back home. As you can imagine we quickly found ourselves engaging in secret encounters. We didn’t label our relationship, but it was more than just friends with benefits. I was happy, because I was completely obsessed with her. Looking back I think she satisfied something in me that I lacked from my relationship with my mother. Which is why I let her walk all over me.

We went though a very dark time. In fact just recently she mentioned how she couldn’t believe how badly she treated me when we were young. I don’t know for sure, but I’m pretty confident that she “cheated” on me twice around that time. But, I stayed with her because I was desperate for her affection and I didn’t really have any other options. I’m not saying this to paint her in a bad light, but I’m now critically analyzing everything in an attempt to make sense of all this.

Despite all that, we moved on and cultivated a beautiful relationship and eventually marriage. Truly, I’ve never felt more secure in my entire life. She became a beautiful person. She was devoted, loving and kind. I always felt that we really are meant for each other. Like we both had our issues back then, but fate put us together in our worst times in order for us to have this perfect marriage.

About five years ago, she went on a girls trip to Vegas. I’ve never had any doubt about her commitment to me, but she called me one morning while she was there and hysterically told me that she had made out with a man in a club. It hurt, but I could tell she was devastated by her own actions. And again, I understand we’re all human and make mistakes. I forgave her.

Since then, no issues. I was completely secure and confident in our marriage and our commitment to each other until now. Now I’m questioning everything. I’m looking back and realizing that no normal man would allow a person to do such hurtful things to them over and over. I’m realizing now that the greatest pain I’ve ever felt in my life has been from her, my wife, the one person that isn’t supposed to do that. And I’ve been HURT. I’ve grown emotionally and I understand now that I had a very unhealthy attachment to her when I was young, but I truly felt that she had changed. Now I’m wondering if she’s only been faithful to me for the years prior to her career change because she was surrounded by other woman and now she’s with plenty of men and a very flexible work schedule that easily allows for affairs.

I think I should leave her. I can’t let her hurt me anymore. But what about our kids? Our house? Like I said before, we get along great. All I want to do is kiss her and make love to her, but when is enough enough? I’ve been so proud that I’m raising my kids in an unbroken home, because I never knew what that was like. So, I’m faced with a decision: do I leave her because I can’t accept her promises that she’s given me so many times, or do I stay for my children and my own self serving desires? I’m so confused. When I’m alone, the answer is clear, but when I’m with her and see how much she wants us to stay together I become so conflicted.
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I'd say that you don't stand a chance until you take charge.
I'd recommend studying up on and implementing the 180.
I would recommend that you find your own life. New clothes, new haircut, join a gym, cultivate new friends, etc.
Get your affairs sorted, and find yourself a good attorney.
Have her served coldly and without warning, at work.
When she sees that the gig is up, you will truly see what you have.
IF you want to reconcile, you can adjust the speed of the process to see of she truly wants to do the work to become a better person, and provide safeguards, and put together a package with incentives that might make it advantageous for you to consider staying in the relationship.
In other words, put the onus on her to save it.
However from what you have outlined here, I'd say that you would be better off just jettisoning her and moving on.
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It’s not as bad as you think, I won’t go into details about why I believe her, but sex was not involved.
Unless you have independent verification that sex wasn't involved or have asked her to take a polygraph test and she eagerly took it and passed, you may be trusting too much. Read other infidelity stories. There are many, many out there where the cheating spouse insisted it was only kissing (or something else short of sex), the betrayed spouse wanted to believe them, and then found out later that there was sex, and much more than they ever imagined. Cheating spouses will often confess enough of what they did to ease their conscience but will limit what they tell to what they think they can get away with without ending their relationship. What they've really done is almost always more, and sometimes much more, than what they confess or admit to. You may also want to read some cheating stories centered around bachelorette parties in Vegas. A lot more may have happened there than she confessed to, too.
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told me that she had made out with a man in a club.
hysterically told me that she had made out with a man in a club.
do I leave her because I can’t accept her promises that she’s given me so many times, or do I stay for my children and my own self serving desires?
So at least twice in the last five years that you know of she has been unfaithful. And you know of course she is minimizing what happened those two times.

You actually have no idea what she was doing when she was a nurse.

As you say, promises mean nothing. So you just need to decide if living with a serial cheater is worth the trouble. The job she has is irrelevant. When she gets a littlr alcohol she has no problem “kissing” other men even if she describes them in negative terms. That is a very common technique BTW.

Would she agree to intensive counseling to build some integrity into her life? That might be worth a try, but just know she isn’t going to change absent an epiphany
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I'd say that you don't stand a chance until you take charge.
There is a Japanese romance series that states, "Love is war! The person who falls in love loses!" The point of that quote is that the person who is the most desperate to be together will be at the mercy of the person they want to be with. As long as your wife believes you won't leave her, she's free to do whatever she wants. So even if you don't want to leave or divorce her, you aren't going to win this unless you can credibly threaten to leave her if she doesn't come clean (don't assume you have the truth) and shape up.

You also need to get your priorities straight. Is staying with her more important than her fidelity? Is her career more important than your relationship and marriage?
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Her: "I swear it will never happen again!!"

You every time it happens: "Stop!! Or I'll say stop again!!"

Divorce now or you will forever be a doormat. Staying for the kids and house is not healthy for you nor the kids. What is your life and happiness worth?, because right now you're missing out on both.
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You went about this in completely the wrong way. What’s more important, your marriage or your wife’s job?

You requested your wife not communicate with this man unless it’s business related? No. How about she never communicates with him EVER. If she can’t work at this real estate office without communicating with him then she needs to leave. There’s plenty of other real estate firms out there.

If your wife doesn’t view her marriage as the most important thing in her life, even more important than her job, then what’s even the point? At that point you’re just a boyfriend/girlfriend with more steps.
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So at least twice in the last five years that you know of she has been unfaithful. And you know of course she is minimizing what happened those two times.

You actually have no idea what she was doing when she was a nurse.

As you say, promises mean nothing. So you just need to decide if living with a serial cheater is worth the trouble. The job she has is irrelevant. When she gets a littlr alcohol she has no problem “kissing” other men even if she describes them in negative terms. That is a very common technique BTW.

Would she agree to intensive counseling to build some integrity into her life? That might be worth a try, but just know she isn’t going to change absent an epiphany
She’s been pushing very hard for marriage counseling, not that I’m against it, rather I fee we’d benefit far more if she went to counseling for herself. But that may all be a mute point
OP, right now your number one priority should be gaining agency in your relationship and taking charge.
Reconciling or leaving as a decision can be made down the line.
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She’s been pushing very hard for marriage counseling, not that I’m against it, rather I fee we’d benefit far more if she went to counseling for herself. But that may all be a mute point
Take her up on the push. But be sure the counselor isn’t one to put blame on the betrayed. There are a lot of crappy counselors out there. Your wife need to appreciate she is the one who broke the marriage.
She’s been pushing very hard for marriage counseling, not that I’m against it, rather I fee we’d benefit far more if she went to counseling for herself. But that may all be a mute point
No, she's the one that screwed up.
She needs to address her personal malfunctions.
If, after your own due diligence , you decide to give her the opportunity of a second chance, then and only then should marriage counseling be considered.
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Do you know why she told you about those cheating incidents?

She wants you to divorce her.

She wants out, but she cannot find it in herself to pull the plug on a loyal husband.

She knows you are too good for her, she even said so.

She also knows, that she really likes the attention of men, and likes the thrill of new intimacy.

She is weak and is untrustworthy.
She knows it.

And, now you know it.


She is not marriage material.

Those times she said it was only a kiss she got?

It was full-on, bare butt, PIV, naked sex.

She does not want to hurt you any more than is necessary for you to dump her.
So, she minimizes what she has done.
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Look at what being a blue pulled beta has gotten you. Enjoy this type of life or learn what it means to have some self respect. You created this situation by being so “understanding”. You basically told your wife she can do anything that makes her happy.

Her lover is an alpha male, that is what he offered your wife. It is something you can’t offer to her.

You want to stay married?

Stop kissing her ass.

Stop doing all the little things you do for her.

Stop talking to her unless it is about the kids.

Have her served with divorce papers at work.

She will either show her claws or come crying begging you not to do it. You will have your answer if she actually loves you or not.

Your first mistake was dismissing what she did. The second mistake was telling her to stay at her job. He has more than likely been plowing your wife the entire time. It hasn’t been just making out.
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So are you relying on her word that no sex was involved, just kissing? It seems that this keeps happening, including five years ago in Vegas. She promises, but then it happens again. I'd bet the farm that whenever she comes and tells you she kissed another man it was full blown sex. The fact is that you can't trust her, plus she now has ample opportunity and lots of real-estate men who are probably doing a lot of talking, flirting and pursuing (I know the type - opportunists).

What you do know for a fact is that she is motivated toward sexualized interaction with other men, and that she is disinhibited such that she's prone to physically act on it. I'm sorry, but I do not think she is only kissing, and I also don't think she sees much wrong with it as long as she doesn't get caught. It sounds way off to me. The fact that you have to negotiate her interactions with this other guy, and then she doesn't stick to the agreement, is nuts. I don't know how you can stand to see her when you know she's such a loose canon.
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Look at what being a blue pulled beta has gotten you. Enjoy this type of life or learn what it means to have some self respect. You created this situation by being so “understanding”. You basically told your wife she can do anything that makes her happy.

Her lover is an alpha male, that is what he offered your wife. It is something you can’t offer to her.
That’s the ****ed up thing, he’s really not. He’s an old loser. I confronted him in town one day and he ran from me like a cowardly dog.
Your wife is a run of the mill cheater. That you continually believe everything she tells you is almost laughable, but I know it’s not laughable at all. Setting aside the fact that she is your WIFE, she is also the mother of young children. I hate to break it to you, but she’s a lousy mother, because her family is not her first priority and she is willing to blow up their lives by “falling in love” (Gag) with this other guy. That is a really ****ty mother, I’m sorry to tell you. You seem to think that making out with others is somehow okay in a marriage. It’s not. It’s not normal, and it’s not something that happens to everyone. It happens to cheaters when their spouse and their children are so far removed from their mind. And frankly, I have a hundred bucks that says she’s done much more than kiss. But you want to keep your head in the sand. The first mistake was not making her quit that job immediately, and she would have offered if she meant to save the family. I feel bad for you, truly, but this isn’t ever going to improve because it’s who she is, no matter how much you want it not to be. The fact that she’s doing this when you’re not even having (other) marital problems is even more concerning and truly shows you…this is who she is. If you stay, just go along with the “everything is great” mantra and just decide that you can ignore the cheating. She’s not going to stop. She’s a liar and a cheater. :(
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I`ll make this short, brief and straight to the point:
No one deserves to be cheated on—and if you have been, know that forgiveness is not mandatory. You have every right to walk away from the relationship and never look back. Your wife made their choice, now it’s time for you to make yours.

If this were my wife our relationship would be spent because I`d consider her as trash.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Also just want to throw this out there. There is no such thing as “falling in love”. That’s made up modernistic rom com ********.

Love is not a feeling. Love is an action.

She did not “fall in love” with this man. She was attracted to him for whatever reason and choose to act upon that attraction. Saying she “fell in love” is a way of her trying to BS her way into being the victim of some uncontrollable feelings like she’s a toddler.
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Your wife is a serial cheater.

She keeps doing it because you keep letting her.

She's done more than she's told you. That is for certain.

You should DNA your children. And divorce.
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The following is a fundamental law of physics-

Cheaters lie 99.9% of the time. And they lie about almost every detail.

Your wife is not telling you the truth about ANY of her kissing sessions.

This is also apart of the numerous laws of the universe-

Grown adults do NOT gather to kiss on the lips attached to their faces. They may kiss other lips and part them... but again this isnt 6th grade.

Tough... but true.
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